Matting down the films...

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Wonderlicious
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Matting down the films...

Post by Wonderlicious »

We just got a widescreen TV (that's also NTSC compatible :D) recently and I was wondering a little about what some of the possibility to be matted and still look good films could look like if zoomed in on (I assume they'd retain a somewhat more cinematic effect). I thought that negatives had picture removed in exactly the same places for each shot, yet I'm beginning to question this; looking at a screen cap from UD's Robin Hood review got me thinking...do film prints get matted depending on the certain frame? Follow me:

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Here's the DVD screencap, as we can see there is more space left unused at the bottom as opposed to the top.

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This is what the film would look like if equal parts were taken off the top and bottom (they're almost equal, I crudely made this. :roll:)

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This is how the film would look if nearly all the abundance at the top of the frame was cleared.

The reason I'm getting worried is because I'd think that it would be interesting to see what some of the open-matte films would look like as normal widescreen pictures like they were meant to be shown in cinemas (only one chance would be fine). If I can zoom in on the same place, I'd be fine, but I'm not sure if I'd be seeing the films as they should be.

Sue me, I'm being a bit nerdy, all this widescreen thing some have drilled into my head here is leaving me with brain damage and chronic confusion. :roll:
ichabod
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Post by ichabod »

Well if the image was to be matted, your first prediction is what it would be. I'm virtually certain that the same amount of picture is taken from the top and bottom of the frame, although there are probably those odd couple of films with an exception.

Anyhoo, my personal advice to you would be for you to forget about wanting to zoom in on the image and just watch the full frame version, after all we all complain about pan and scan chopping off the sides of the picture and here you are wanting to chop off the top and bottom! :lol:

Open matte or not, I's want to see all of the animation on the full frame!
Wonderlicious
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Post by Wonderlicious »

I'm not exactly bothered about watching films multiply matted down, I just thought it would be interesting to watch one viewing of them (or possibly just scenes from them) as widescreen films. Anyway, thanks for the info! :up:
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MickeyMouseboy
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Post by MickeyMouseboy »

if Disney mattes their films they would use a 1.66:1 ratio rather than a 1.85:1 ratio
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deathie mouse
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Post by deathie mouse »

they should be like this:

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From top to bottom
1.85
1.75
1.66

and here's another set projected the same way:

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Image

Image

As always 1.85 is "USA Widescreen", 1.66 "European Widescreen" and 1.75 the average of both, or "Disney Widescreen"

Notes: all images (including the Open matte) are calculated to be cropping 2% of the 0.825" width (the Open matte cap is not 1.375 wide)
Images calculated from NTSC 486 master, NTSC 52.6555 microseconds = 4:3

Due to working from downsized caps and not original negs a margin of error may exist. Don't forget to eat your projector alignment RP-40s for breakfast!
All images UD corps
This font is ludicrus!
Image
marlan
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Post by marlan »

ichabod wrote: Anyhoo, my personal advice to you would be for you to forget about wanting to zoom in on the image and just watch the full frame version, after all we all complain about pan and scan chopping off the sides of the picture and here you are wanting to chop off the top and bottom!
What do you think — is Dumbo's DVD version framed too heavily? Watch these screenshots from my R2 DVD...

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Shouldn't we see more of the feet of the pink elephants? Has anyone seen this movie in a cinema recently? How does it look on film? I think this framing ruins the metafictional effect.
ichabod
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Post by ichabod »

Well Dumbo was made in 1941 and then films were still shown in theatres in fullscreen it was not until the late 50s/early 60s that widescreen really became a standard thing. However not all theatres were equipped to show widescreen movies.

This is shy some films were made in what is called "Open matte" meaning that they were filmed as Fullscreen, however not just like normal, additional space was left at the top and bottom of the frames when making an open matte film, as in those shots from Robin Hood above, not much is happening above Prince John's head, it is just background and also at the bottom it is just Prince John's body so if you were to crop the top and bottom to make it widescreen you would not be missing anything much as the film Robin Hood would have been made with the intent for some prints to be cropped.

However like I said Dumbo was made before open matte transfers were necessary so I dount any kind of deliberate pan and scanning or croppins was done. It is possible that the elephants feet should be there and perhaps there is a problem with the DVD master that was zoomed in on the centre of the frame slightly too much meaning that legs are cut off. I expect we will have to wait for the next SE release of Dumbo, which should have an all new restored transfer to see if there is a difference. As the one on the current DVD doesn't exactly shine.
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