Beauty and the Beast Discussion

[Marce82]

Hey everyone (who still manages to find these forums),

I am reviving this thread... I had an odd experience regarding the BATB colors recently.

I bought an Asus Monitor... I hooked up both my computer and my blu ray player to it. The monitor has several "modes", that change frame rate, colors, contrast... one of these modes is called "Cinema". So I set it to that... and I popped in my BATB blu ray...and dear LORD: the colors look.... correct? (possibly). Belle's hair is now brown, there is some serious contrast in the Dungeon scene (the beast IS in darkness)... even though I don't think the ballroom scene is 100% right, it DOES seem pretty close. Has anyone else tried this? I wonder what monitor they use at Disney to calibrate colors...

And by the way... Fareb, I have alternated between Disney + and my blu ray, and it is exactly the same transfer.

[Farerb]

Aaron Blaise videos:

Animation - Rough animation of the Beast from Disney's Beauty and the Beast:
https://youtu.be/W1v0nocw4QE

Animation Live! Beauty and the Beast:
https://youtu.be/9myyHe7JiYk

[blackcauldron85]

Thanks for sharing that! I have to get ready for work so I can't watch the 2nd video now, but the first was great. It's interesting that he said he didn't have time to draw everything in graphite so he left it in red pencil. A) It speaks to the quick production time of the film I guess. B) I'm assuming that it's easier to draw with the red pencil? Does anyone know?

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Not sure how historically correct the story is supposed to be, but it takes place somewhere between 1750 and 1800. Read somewhere it was most likely in the late 1700s.

But the beast is actually a prince, and the French monarchy ended in 1792 due to the French revolution and all that. It can't have been a happy ending if that happened just a few years later.

One alternative is that they were all cursed right before the French revolution happened, and when they all became humans again and discovered how society had changed, he might have said something like; "Now when we no longer have a monarchy and I no longer can call myself a prince, then at least I can just call myself the owner of this castle". It would probably not work well to add it to the movie, but maybe it could be mentioned in some other context.

(Some says because the curse lasted ten years, it means the prince was just eleven years old back then, but what if their aging stopped while they were under the curse? The teacup Chip is still a small boy when he becomes human again.)

Love Belle's laughter here, but the prince's laughter is hilarious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqmVFBAjh9k&t=245s

B) I'm assuming that it's easier to draw with the red pencil? Does anyone know?

I'm guessing that if you use graphite you can control more of the line, making it stand out less or more, make it thicker or thinner, while a red pencil is simply drawing. If so, graphite would require more focus and control, and therefore be more time consuming.

[Disney Duster]

Disney's Beauty and the Beast is actually said by its directors to take place in the early 18th century. But there are tons of things from other times in it, like a painting of the Prince with a 19th century royal suit, the Eiffel Tower made of silverware in "Be Our Guest", and Belle and the Besst's ballroom clothes, especially Belle's gold ball gown.

Even though the film takes place in France, it is a fantasy France that never really existed, so it exists away from real time and things like the French Revolution.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

I don't see the Eiffel Tower as a problem. That's just one of the surreal elements that sometimes shows up in a movie without meaning that much, especially through musical numbers (but not restricted to them). Like how Genie in Aladdin transform himself into a modern day reporter, Hercules has a modern action figure of himself or when a squirrel magically pulls a needle and a balloon out of thin air in The Emperor's New Groove. It's the elements that are consistent through the whole movie people pay attention to.

Maybe it's a France that never existed, but that seems to be a thing of the past these days. Now everything is supposed to be as culturally authentic as possible. It also seems to be true for older features set closer to modern times, like AristoCats.
Whenever they make a movie today, there is a lot of research regarding specific cultures and the time they are set in. As in Frozen, Lilo & Stitch (even if set in present times), Moana and Encanto. The only exception seems to be demography (Frozen 2).
At Pixar they have even established something they call a “cultural trust” in addition to the traditional brain trust, but if it's meant to be a permanent thing is perhaps too early to say.

(Have often found it a little frustrating that a specific century can be written in two different ways. The 18th century and the 1700 means the same thing, but not all authors seems to realize that, so it's not always easy to understand what century they mean.)

[Disney Duster]

Ok, first of all, I get why you excuse the Eiffel Tower, but there have to be many core elements that are true to life and the very fact it's France with a parentless Prince as a ruler that the town has forgotten about is hugely historically innacurate. Next, this film was done before Disney started really trying to set their fairy tales in a certain place and time, and even then, they don't. Frozen is still set in a fantasy place near Norway. Next, you can talk about the 1700s and the 18th century intending them as the same thing, but I will tell you saying the 18th century is better because then people know you mean every decade that begins with 17's as opposed to saying the 1700s which can mean just the first decade that starts with 17. Finally, what point are you trying to make that goes against my point? It's clearly a fantasy version of France that did not take place in real life.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

The fact that the whole village seems to have forgotten about the castle is what I consider to be the fairytale elements.

I would say Norway is close enough, even if no specific location is mentioned. And yeah, that's what I'm saying regarding Disney today versus before. As for the best way to describe a century, that's personal preferences.

And I'm not trying to make any point that is for or against your own points. It's a discussion. You post something and I reply.

[blackcauldron85]

Love Belle's laughter here, but the prince's laughter is hilarious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqmVFBAjh9k&t=245s

I've seen this film a million times; why has this never stood out to me before?!?

I'm guessing that if you use graphite you can control more of the line, making it stand out less or more, make it thicker or thinner, while a red pencil is simply drawing. If so, graphite would require more focus and control, and therefore be more time consuming.

That makes sense; thank you!

[Rumpelstiltskin]

You welcome. As mentioned, it's just my assumption, but it is the first difference that comes to mind.

There was a little thread about the prince's laughter on Youtube. Once you pay attention to it, it is hard not to notice it next time. But if you're deep into the movie you're probably taking all of the scene in at once, and individual elements are not given that much attention. Which is how most of us watch movies.

[Disney Duster]

Oh, ok, so you weren't trying to make a point against mine. Well, a parentless prince ruling France in the 18th century is also a huge fairy tale element. And, you cannot argue saying the 1700s is just as good as saying the 18th century when they do not always mean the same thing and there can be confusion with saying the 1700s but no confusion with saying the 18th century.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

I assumed it was some local prince, not the prince of the entire France. If he was, it would be weird if he lived in a castle which was located in the forest close to a village. It's as if the white house should be located in an isolated area in rural America.
Personally I wouldn't call it a fantasy element. Maybe social unrealism or something.
The best way to describe a century is a non-issue in my opinion. I just know what I prefer myself.

[Disney Duster]

By the time France was France in the 18th century, there would be no princes other than the sons of one King of all of France.

Oh boy, well, you just don't get the century thing.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

One of Disney's creative liberties, I guess.
And I know perfectly well what is meant by the different ways to reference a century. Which also opens up for the possibilities that the author of a comment or article are mixing them. But whatever.

Despite less activity I like this discussion board because unlike social media like Reddit and Twitter it is way less toxic, and there is no competition to get as many upvotes and likes as possible. So I try to avoid conflicts. But I can only turn the other cheek for so long.

[Disney Duster]

You know what, I apologize. I'm sorry I made you feel bad. I just was saying I think it is fact saying 18th century is better because of the clarity and difference compared to saying 1700s. You can choose which one you want to say, but I do want to caution you, if you use 1700s all the time when referring to the 18th century, people may not know what you mean. But I'm sorry, I didn't intend to hurt you.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Don't worry, I wasn't hurt. It's just that I prefer to discuss instead of arguing, and to avert a negative tone, or what can be interpret as it.

[Disney Duster]

I did get angry about things...hehe. I still will in any possible discussions, but I will try not to hurt anyone. Glad you weren't.

[Farerb]

‘Beauty and the Beast’ and Its Unprecedented Oscar Run in 1992: “It Was a Giant Moment for Everyone”
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movie ... 235114971/

[Disney Duster]

Thank you, farerb, that article is wonderful! I will always think Beauty and the Beast is the only animated film so far that deserved it's Best Picture nomination and that it should have won. Sorry Silence of the Lambs, but you just aren't as emotional.

[blackcauldron85]

That is a great article; thanks for posting it, Farerb!

TROUSDALE My guilty confession is I don’t really like musicals.

LAUCH I know he saw rough pencil sketches and partial animation sequences as they were finished and sent to New York on tape. There were lots of storyboards copied and sent in binders. But he never saw a fully edited film.

I knew that Howard hadn't seen the completed film, but I didn't know or remember how much he was able to see of it.

PRESS I remember Peter Schneider and I going through and deciding what would be black-and-white and what would be color. The scene with the rose, I’m like, “OK, that’s going to be in color.”

WISE We actually did replace some finished animation with storyboards and rough animation just to get the audience a better insight into the process.

I knew about what Kirk Wise mentioned, but what Terry Press mentioned- I'd love to have been a fly on the wall of their process of picking what parts of the film would be shown in what way in the Work-in-Progress.

Now it was clear that Beauty and the Beast could play well with adults if they could be convinced to give it a chance. Appealing to them became priority No. 1.

COOK Jeffrey was not only fearless but maniacal about marketing the film to adults. The kids would come. So every television spot and every piece of material was about, “How sophisticated can we make it?”

What would have happened if the Work-in-Progress screening wasn't a success, if seeing the film in various states just didn't jive with the film festival audience?! It would have been marketed just to kids?

Beauty and the Beast became the first animated film ever to win a Golden Globe for best picture, and also won score and song Globes. This further cemented Disney’s conviction about the Oscars.

I don't know if I knew/remembered that it won Best Picture at the Golden Globes. Did you?

O’HARA Angela made it really clear that she did not want to sing “Beauty and the Beast” on any talk show. She suggested that I sing it, so I ended up going on the morning shows with Alan.

Does anyone know why that is?

Prior to Oscar night, and even during it, some prominent actors demeaned Beauty and the Beast. For example, Sally Field, who was asked to introduce the film as a best picture nominee on Oscar night, did so by noting that there were “no actors onscreen” and cracking, “We members of the Screen Actors Guild hope this doesn’t become a trend.”
...
O’HARA The wise Angela Lansbury said, “Don’t listen to any of that. We know how wonderful this movie is.”

CHAPMAN I remember Shirley MacLaine and Liza Minnelli saying some snarky stuff.

WISE There were a couple of snide remarks that Ms. Field made and Shirley MacLaine made. Something to the effect of “real actors” versus “animated actors.” I thought it was kind of a cheap shot. Interestingly enough, a year later, I ended up directing Sally as a voice in a movie that I was a producer on, a live-action film called Homeward Bound: The Incredible Journey. She played Sassy the cat. I never brought it up.

I had no idea that there was this backlash. I guess I'm not surprised but that makes me unhappy!

Jeffrey telling people they weren't allowed to go onstage if the film won. Oh Jeffrey.

HAHN The funniest thing is Michael called me up before the ceremony and said, “Don, if you win, knock on wood, if you could just say, ‘I’m going to Disneyland!’ that would be fantastic. I said, “Michael, I can’t do that.” He said, “No, no, listen, we’ll give a little donation to the charity of your choice.” (Laughs.)

Oh Michael.

TROUSDALE The studio was actually not going to give Kirk and myself tickets. Don put his foot down and said, “If the guys aren’t going, I’m not going either.” So they coughed up some tickets for us.
...
TROUSDALE We were sitting right behind a mountain of cameras and monitors, and we had no direct view of the stage. We were there, but we had to watch it on TV.

Seriously?!? Kirk and Gary helmed the film - I mean, without them (and Howard) they would have had the equivalent of the Perdum version. The nerve!

So sad that Howard wasn't the only employee who died of HIV/AIDS.