Atlantis: The Lost Empire Discussion

[D82]

I'm surprised that apart from the TV series, they were also planning a theatrical sequel. It seems they had a lot of faith in the success of Atlantis. Yes, the idea for the villain sounds interesting, but maybe the movie would've been too similar to the original.

[JeanGreyForever]

I think this is the first time we've heard about Atlantis getting a theatrical sequel. I know Disney had high hopes for this film so I'm not surprised they wanted to franchise it but I agree with D82 that the premise of the film sounds maybe a bit too similar to the original.

And Helga developed a cult following, in part because her final actions sorta redeem her. Even if she isn't doing it to save Atlantis but to get revenge on Rourke for betraying her, but early moments in the movie did hint at a bit of a conscience. I'm not sure making her a full-fledged villain would be the way to go, especially with the motivations of finishing what Rourke started.

[Prince Kido]

After I worked on Tarzan, some of my ex french colleagues who stayed at the studio near Paris, used to work on Fantasia 2000, the Emperor's New Groove and Atlantis!
When I was on the Tarzan's production, we saw a lot of the previous version of TENG : Kingdom of the Sun, and lots of artworks for Atlantis, which everyone was most excited about.
It appears that Helga was animated here in France, supervised by Yoshimichi Tamura.
I attended the wrap party with the directors and there was already talks about a possibly sequel at that time because I heard many times from my friends there that in fact Helga didn't die and that it will be revealed in a sequel then. If I remember correctly, but not sure sorry, I think it was Don Hahn who said to the crew that Helga didn't die and that it was planned early, or something like that.
I didn't know though she was supposed to be the new main villain.
Back at this time and knowing she was still alive despite her fall and the lava, I imagined an atlantean saving her on a flying fish machine and healed her with the crystal in secret, hidden from Milo and Kida. It was frustrating to not have any hint at the end of the movie that she is still alive, but I knew the intentions for all this time. Glad it is revealed now. Hahaa!

[JeanGreyForever]

Thanks for sharing! I always love reading your insider information! That's super interesting that even as far back as the late 90s/early 2000s, the film that everyone was most excited for was Atlantis. No wonder they already had sequel plans for it then.

Helga really hit it off as a character and she was always one of the most memorable ones for me as well so I'm glad to hear that she was planned on being kept alive for the next film. I always wanted her to survive but from how high she fell, it seemed like that would have been unlikely especially with the giant explosion. Good to finally have confirmation on her fate!

[Rumpelstiltskin]

The old woman (don't remember her name) smoked a lot of cigarettes. Considering smoking is being edited out of both shorts and features at Disney these days, does she still smoke in the newest DVD-releases and on Disney+?

After I worked on Tarzan, some of my ex French colleagues who stayed at the studio near Paris, used to work on Fantasia 2000, the Emperor's New Groove and Atlantis!

Off topic, but how much are Disney employees allowed to tell about the company that's not related to upcoming movies? A lot of people work on them, but I rarely if ever see them in discussion boards. Except from a few veterans who have their own blogs or doing interviews about their time there, you don't often see them on the net.

[estefan]

The old woman (don't remember her name) smoked a lot of cigarettes. Considering smoking is being edited out of both shorts and features at Disney these days, does she still smoke in the newest DVD-releases and on Disney+?

I watched Atlantis recently on Disney+ and she still smokes. When you start the movie, a warning even pops up in the top left hand corner that says the movie contains tobacco use.

[Prince Kido]

Off topic, but how much are Disney employees allowed to tell about the company that's not related to upcoming movies? A lot of people work on them, but I rarely if ever see them in discussion boards. Except from a few veterans who have their own blogs or doing interviews about their time there, you don't often see them on the net.

The answer is simple : confidentiality contract !
Not to mention only the people working on a movie, but also on all the merchandising, licensing, products, distribution, etc. all over the world !
I perfectly remember that day at the french studio when we were all reunited in the screening room with Peter Schneider I think, coming from US, because there was some leaks on Tarzan's model sheets on internet and we were like in 1997-1998. People who had internet at home had to raise their hands in the room and we were told that it was strictly forbidden to take out or talk about production elements of the film.
Nowadays, a lot of artists and engineers from the studios are on internet but they can't talk or share what they are working on now or what will come after because it's in their contract and it is very serious in Hollywood, like in every studio.
Also, not that much of the people who work on those films are "fans" and they don't care about talking about that because when the movie is released, it's barely too late for them as they are on something else for the future, or it's just a job they are used to.
I am one of the rare persons in the animation industry who's both a professional artist and a fan.
Then you can imagine how crazy I was when I worked on Tarzan and being inside, being part of this.
I know that some live and feel the same excitement right now at Disney Animation.

[DisneyFan09]

Well, whoa. It´s pretty astounding that the directors were seriously considering to make an full-blown, theatrical sequel to Atlantis. Considering how the mere idea of a sequel back then was a sure misfire. But it´s pretty astonishing, nonetheless. I know there`s been a couple of petitions from The Lion King-fans to make a full-blown, theatrical sequel to it, but we all know how fate turned out.

While that being said, I don´t mind that Helga was going to make a comeback. But frankly, she was one of the weak links of Atlantis. She´s a pivotal character, yet unfortunately suffered from being poorly underdeveloped. She clearly had more dimension and depth than her counterpart Rourke, yet unfortunately she was reduced of being just a sheer villain at the end. So it would make sense to have her come back. But it´s a pity that the script forced her to just be pure villainous at the end.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

I watched Atlantis recently on Disney+ and she still smokes. When you start the movie, a warning even pops up in the top left hand corner that says the movie contains tobacco use.

They probably feel obligated to, but I doubt it has prevented anyone from not watching it for that reason.

The answer is simple : confidentiality contract !
Not to mention only the people working on a movie, but also on all the merchandising, licensing, products, distribution, etc. all over the world !
I perfectly remember that day at the french studio when we were all reunited in the screening room with Peter Schneider I think, coming from US, because there was some leaks on Tarzan's model sheets on internet and we were like in 1997-1998. People who had internet at home had to raise their hands in the room and we were told that it was strictly forbidden to take out or talk about production elements of the film.

Leaking models online today would probably be a lot more serious than back then (and harder to find the guilty ones).

The contract counts even after a movie is completed or cancelled? Also, there are plenty of great test footage during the early stages of a movie, but sadly that is rarely shown. Someone filmed an early version of Rapunzel with a phone, and then put out on youtube, but only a few seconds.

Also, this Wikipedia article about the novel Journey to the Center of the Earth claims this: "Walt Disney Pictures began work on a Journey adaptation in the late 1990s, but was not happy with the appearance of the caverns, so the project was scrapped. The cavern scenes were altered and used in the production of their 2001 film Atlantis: The Lost Empire."

Is this correct? I haven't been able to find any articles that says Disney was working on A Journey to the Centre of the Earth in the late 90s.

[JeanGreyForever]

I watched Atlantis recently on Disney+ and she still smokes. When you start the movie, a warning even pops up in the top left hand corner that says the movie contains tobacco use.

They probably feel obligated to, but I doubt it has prevented anyone from not watching it for that reason.

The answer is simple : confidentiality contract !
Not to mention only the people working on a movie, but also on all the merchandising, licensing, products, distribution, etc. all over the world !
I perfectly remember that day at the french studio when we were all reunited in the screening room with Peter Schneider I think, coming from US, because there was some leaks on Tarzan's model sheets on internet and we were like in 1997-1998. People who had internet at home had to raise their hands in the room and we were told that it was strictly forbidden to take out or talk about production elements of the film.

Leaking models online today would probably be a lot more serious than back then (and harder to find the guilty ones).

The contract counts even after a movie is completed or cancelled? Also, there are plenty of great test footage during the early stages of a movie, but sadly that is rarely shown. Someone filmed an early version of Rapunzel with a phone, and then put out on youtube, but only a few seconds.

Also, this Wikipedia article about the novel Journey to the Center of the Earth claims this: "Walt Disney Pictures began work on a Journey adaptation in the late 1990s, but was not happy with the appearance of the caverns, so the project was scrapped. The cavern scenes were altered and used in the production of their 2001 film Atlantis: The Lost Empire."

Is this correct? I haven't been able to find any articles that says Disney was working on A Journey to the Centre of the Earth in the late 90s.

I'd laugh if they didn't censor Atlantis because they felt most people won't be likely to seek it out and watch it lol. I watched it a couple of weeks ago on Disney+ and I'm glad it wasn't censored though, thankfully.

I know that contractually, Disney employees cannot speak about stuff even after the film is completed or cancelled because Glen Keane himself confirmed this. Someone on Tumblr posted that she attended a lecture of his and he shared some information on his version of Rapunzel but then revealed that he couldn't really go too in-depth because contractually the material was still Disney's and he couldn't speak about it.

I haven't heard anything about Disney working on an actual adaptation of A Journey to the Center of the Earth. I think the Wikipedia article is confused since what I've heard is that the directors wanted to make an action/adventure film in the vein of Jules Verne and that A Journey to the Center of the Earth is what they were inspired by when making Atlantis. I don't think they ever sought to make an animated adaptation of that though.

[JeanGreyForever]

Well, whoa. It´s pretty astounding that the directors were seriously considering to make an full-blown, theatrical sequel to Atlantis. Considering how the mere idea of a sequel back then was a sure misfire. But it´s pretty astonishing, nonetheless. I know there`s been a couple of petitions from The Lion King-fans to make a full-blown, theatrical sequel to it, but we all know how fate turned out.

While that being said, I don´t mind that Helga was going to make a comeback. But frankly, she was one of the weak links of Atlantis. She´s a pivotal character, yet unfortunately suffered from being poorly underdeveloped. She clearly had more dimension and depth than her counterpart Rourke, yet unfortunately she was reduced of being just a sheer villain at the end. So it would make sense to have her come back. But it´s a pity that the script forced her to just be pure villainous at the end.

I wish Helga had more screentime because she has a few nice one-liners but they never really dive into her character (of course that complaint can be issued against many of the other supporting characters as well). She does seem a lot more interesting than Rourke but even that potential may have been squandered if she was reduced to yet another one-dimensional villain in the sequel like it sounds like.

[Disney's Divinity]

I imagine being able to work at Disney at the tail-end of the Renaissance was a dream come true! Helga was probably my favorite character in the film after Mrs. Packard (although I find most of the characters likable). I only recently came to like Milo; he used to annoy me back when the film first released.

As for the news itself, I'm not really surprised a sequel was thought about ahead of time. One was also thought of for Treasure Planet. The 2000's is when animated films were being released with franchise potential already in mind--either the DTV sequels gave Disney the idea of making more money off a property that way or Dreamworks had already started making sequels to their films at the time. You see it today with every animated film released. Even fairytales are made with the intent to have sequels, ideally, now. I still feel that was a part of the rationale behind Rapunzel and The Snow Queen becoming Tangled and Frozen, too, although them wanting to eliminate anything vaguely "female" from all marketing / promotion was another big reason.

[estefan]

I know that contractually, Disney employees cannot speak about stuff even after the film is completed or cancelled because Glen Keane himself confirmed this. Someone on Tumblr posted that she attended a lecture of his and he shared some information on his version of Rapunzel but then revealed that he couldn't really go too in-depth because contractually the material was still Disney's and he couldn't speak about it.

Not just Disney. Kevin Lima recently posted artwork from a cancelled DreamWorks movie he was supposed to direct, but then Universal got those images taken down.

I also follow some character designers on Twitter and they always wait until a movie has opened or a tv show has premiered before sharing their concept art from whatever they worked on.

[JeanGreyForever]

I know that contractually, Disney employees cannot speak about stuff even after the film is completed or cancelled because Glen Keane himself confirmed this. Someone on Tumblr posted that she attended a lecture of his and he shared some information on his version of Rapunzel but then revealed that he couldn't really go too in-depth because contractually the material was still Disney's and he couldn't speak about it.

Not just Disney. Kevin Lima recently posted artwork from a cancelled DreamWorks movie he was supposed to direct, but then Universal got those images taken down.

I also follow some character designers on Twitter and they always wait until a movie has opened or a tv show has premiered before sharing their concept art from whatever they worked on.

I can understand why studios are so protective of their unused content, but it's a real shame for fans.

[D82]

And Helga developed a cult following, in part because her final actions sorta redeem her. Even if she isn't doing it to save Atlantis but to get revenge on Rourke for betraying her, but early moments in the movie did hint at a bit of a conscience. I'm not sure making her a full-fledged villain would be the way to go, especially with the motivations of finishing what Rourke started.

Though the idea sounded cool to me, I also thought it seemed a bit out of character for Helga to do that after being more or less redeemed at the end of Atlantis. By the way, this idea of a masked villain reminds me of Big Hero 6. I wonder if Disney recycled it for that movie.

As for the news itself, I'm not really surprised a sequel was thought about ahead of time. One was also thought of for Treasure Planet. The 2000's is when animated films were being released with franchise potential already in mind--either the DTV sequels gave Disney the idea of making more money off a property that way or Dreamworks had already started making sequels to their films at the time.

I think I didn't know a sequel to Treasure Planet was also planned. I guess the only reason WDAS didn't start making sequels back then like they're doing now is that the movies they released at that time weren't successful enough to warrant them.

[JeanGreyForever]

And Helga developed a cult following, in part because her final actions sorta redeem her. Even if she isn't doing it to save Atlantis but to get revenge on Rourke for betraying her, but early moments in the movie did hint at a bit of a conscience. I'm not sure making her a full-fledged villain would be the way to go, especially with the motivations of finishing what Rourke started.

Though the idea sounded cool to me, I also thought it seemed a bit out of character for Helga to do that after being more or less redeemed at the end of Atlantis. By the way, this idea of a masked villain reminds me of Big Hero 6. I wonder if Disney recycled it for that movie.

As for the news itself, I'm not really surprised a sequel was thought about ahead of time. One was also thought of for Treasure Planet. The 2000's is when animated films were being released with franchise potential already in mind--either the DTV sequels gave Disney the idea of making more money off a property that way or Dreamworks had already started making sequels to their films at the time.

I think I didn't know a sequel to Treasure Planet was also planned. I guess the only reason WDAS didn't start making sequels back then like they're doing now is that the movies they released at that time weren't successful enough to warrant them.

While her "redemption" was more getting vengeance on Rourke for betraying her than it was trying to save Atlantis and her former allies, I agree that I can't see her as a full-fledged villain. Especially the way she was described by trying to finish what Rourke started. There are definitely similarities to the masked villain in Big Hero 6 being a character everyone thought dead like you said.

Treasure Planet had a cheapquel planned that would have essentially been the pilot movie for a TV series (like Return of Jafar or Stitch! The Movie). It wasn't a theatrically planned sequel. This is the first we've heard of Disney planning a theatrical sequel for one of their films in the late 90s/2000s era so that's in part why this news has been such a big deal.

[Clindor]

Off topic, but how much are Disney employees allowed to tell about the company that's not related to upcoming movies? A lot of people work on them, but I rarely if ever see them in discussion boards. Except from a few veterans who have their own blogs or doing interviews about their time there, you don't often see them on the net.

The answer is simple : confidentiality contract !
Not to mention only the people working on a movie, but also on all the merchandising, licensing, products, distribution, etc. all over the world !
I perfectly remember that day at the french studio when we were all reunited in the screening room with Peter Schneider I think, coming from US, because there was some leaks on Tarzan's model sheets on internet and we were like in 1997-1998. People who had internet at home had to raise their hands in the room and we were told that it was strictly forbidden to take out or talk about production elements of the film.
Nowadays, a lot of artists and engineers from the studios are on internet but they can't talk or share what they are working on now or what will come after because it's in their contract and it is very serious in Hollywood, like in every studio.
Also, not that much of the people who work on those films are "fans" and they don't care about talking about that because when the movie is released, it's barely too late for them as they are on something else for the future, or it's just a job they are used to.
I am one of the rare persons in the animation industry who's both a professional artist and a fan.
Then you can imagine how crazy I was when I worked on Tarzan and being inside, being part of this.
I know that some live and feel the same excitement right now at Disney Animation.

Now that’s an interesting point..! I know how Disney is extremely sensitive when it comes to protecting their properties and in no way it means less than serious business for that matter. Maybe I'm not enough conscious though they could care to keep it valid for a movie as “Atlantis” whose sequels and projects to go on with the series were scratched a bit more than 15 years ago with no intentions from the company to revive them because of the commercial failure of the first film (unless if you count the live-action project, but surely they will be looking to rethink the movie a bit then). It makes me wonder.. What determine the confidentiality clause there? Does it stop when you stop being a Disney artist? Who is allowed to give some teases with abandoned ideas?
I remember in 2017 one ex-Disney artist (Mark Pudleiner?) was very generous on his blog and shared a lot of his work for the “Kingdom of the Sun” project (including if I remember correctly several sketches of Nina who became a lost character when the project transformed to “The Emperor’s New groove”) and also shared a copy of the entire summarized plot that was given to him when he started being involved on the project (the latter had btw a great insight on the story, with a tangible structure compared to what could be learned through “The Sweatbox” documentary, this one giving only glimpses of the plot.) Which makes me wonder when an artist is “allowed” to do so.

Anyway I surely understand your excitement Prince Kido!! Having visited the WDAS myself last Summer thanks to someone who currently works there, I know how it is to feel to be super-excited for upcoming things you saw and that you have absolutely no right to talk about! So other the privilege of visiting this building is preserved intact for other people

[D82]

Treasure Planet had a cheapquel planned that would have essentially been the pilot movie for a TV series (like Return of Jafar or Stitch! The Movie). It wasn't a theatrically planned sequel. This is the first we've heard of Disney planning a theatrical sequel for one of their films in the late 90s/2000s era so that's in part why this news has been such a big deal.

Oh, OK. Now that you mention it, I remember having heard of that.

[JeanGreyForever]

Treasure Planet had a cheapquel planned that would have essentially been the pilot movie for a TV series (like Return of Jafar or Stitch! The Movie). It wasn't a theatrically planned sequel. This is the first we've heard of Disney planning a theatrical sequel for one of their films in the late 90s/2000s era so that's in part why this news has been such a big deal.

Oh, OK. Now that you mention it, I remember having heard of that.

Pretty sure this article has been posted before but here it is for anyone interested.
https://animatedviews.com/2014/buried-t ... -planet-2/

[D82]

Pretty sure this article has been posted before but here it is for anyone interested.
https://animatedviews.com/2014/buried-t ... -planet-2/

Thanks for posting that article! It was quite interesting. I think I had seen it posted before, but I hadn't read it. It sounds like it would've been more or less decent for a DTV sequel, though I don't mind much that it wasn't made. I don't know if it was the norm with these sequels or not, but I'm surprised that all the original cast was going to return, plus Willem Dafoe as the new villain. I'm also surprised they started working on the sequel so early. They were already going to start recording the dialogues when Treasure Planet underperformed in its opening weekend and they decided to cancel it.