Is Pocahontas really hated?

HarryCanyon · Post by **HarryCanyon** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:28 am

Some Disney fans said it was the death of the second golden age of Disney and not on par with Lion King, does that sadden anyone?

sunhuntin · Post by **sunhuntin** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:50 am

i saw both as a kid... i was 9 when TLK came out, cant remember how old when pocahontas was released. i loved pocah more than tlk and was obsessed with it for quite some time, collecting all sorts of memoraiblia.

i did hate the sequel immensly for the bear baiting scene... i always skip over that.

Cordy_Biddle · Post by **Cordy_Biddle** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:21 am

I too was quite taken with "Pocahontas" when it first came out. Never much cared for "The Lion King" (and probably never will); and I can't quite understand why "Pocahontas" has been criticised for destroying the Second Golden Age. It's a very solid film, and has a lot going for it. It's one of the most literate, adult love stories that Disney has ever tackled.

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:53 am

My sister took my brother and I to see Pocahontas when it came out. Long before Tiana, she was enamored with the prospect of Disney introducing their first non-Caucasian princess.

I remember enjoying the film quite a bit, because it played into my growing interest in environmentalism around the same time. Though, it would be the last of Disney's animated features I saw in its theatrical debut until The Emperor's New Groove.

MJW · Post by **MJW** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:41 am

Semaj wrote:Though, it would be the last of Disney's animated features I saw in its theatrical debut until The Emperor's New Groove.

Pocahontas was the last Disney animated classic I saw in the theaters too, which is strange because I was only 10 when it came out, so it's not like I "outgrew" the films or something. I wouldn't see another DAC in the theater until Tangled!

As for Pocahontas ruining a second Golden Age, I'm not so sure. Surely any film following The Lion King's phenomenal success would have a lot to live up to. I think Pocahontas stands fine on its own, and even if it was the "end" of another Golden Age, there were still a bunch of excellent films that came after it and will come after it in the future.

Wonderlicious · Post by **Wonderlicious** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:24 am

I think that people see it as being the film that ended the Renaissance as it started the general downward trend (though I would say that the Renaissance didn't truly end until around 2000), and also because it came out the year Toy Story did, which ended up being that year's better loved Disney animated film, as well as obviously starting the trend towards CG animation. I think another reason as well is that Disney spent too much time convincing us that it was all based on a true story, when it was in fact more based on legend than historical facts. It just made the film look downright pompous, and set the scene for instant criticism.

Personally, I think Pocahontas is okay, but probably among the weakest of the 90s Disney output, as it was ultimately made too serious so as to try and be Oscar bait. I think I would have preferred a film that promoted itself shamelessly as the legend and was about as serious as The Little Mermaid or (at most) Beauty and the Beast (aka, making Pocahontas AND John Smith younger, keeping the turkey character etc).

Victurtle · Post by **Victurtle** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:35 am

Some parts of the movie are, to quote somebody I dont remember, startlingly beautiful, but I can't forgive the horrible villian songs, the villian, incredibly annoying side kick characters and the Willow tree. If it weren't for them, or that they were dealt more tastefully, than it would be very similar to Sleeping Beauty imo.

CampbellzSoup · Post by **CampbellzSoup** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:22 am

The film was too wordy/preachy for me...I think that Disney films can be fun yet serious...I felt that Pochantas was just oo serious for me

Animalia · Post by **Animalia** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:20 pm

I don't think Pocahontas was the death of anything, but I definitely don't think it was one of the best Renaissance movies. In my opinion it is extremely boring. The only time the movie ever got interesting for me was when a song came.

I agree with people that it was also preachy. The Lion King was preachy, but with Timon and Pumbaa it never got too serious. Pocahontas did have humorous sidekicks, but they weren't really central to the plot.

Also another thing I didn't like about Pocahontas was that she was a real person and they completely ignored the historical facts. For instance she was about ten when she met John Smith.

DisneyJedi · Post by **DisneyJedi** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:40 pm

Okay, how the fudgepaste is Pocahontas considered the death of the Disney Renaissance? Sure, it wasn't the best Disney film out there, but damn it. It was special in its own right!

Elladorine · Post by **Elladorine** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:14 pm

I had a feeling back then that it really was the beginning of the end at Disney. We couldn't really expect earnings to keep going up after the tremendous success of The Lion King; after that Disney seemed to choose less universally appealing stories and regardless, people were bound to be disappointed. Not to say that I didn't enjoy Pocahontas or anything made after. Pocahontas remains one of my favorites to this day. I don't mind that it's based more on legend, the story is universal and just the look of the film is completely gorgeous. I recently viewed it for the first time on an HD TV, and woah . . . I'm still used to how the old VHS looked.

I know that some people diss the music but I still quite enjoy that aspect as well.

Goliath · Post by **Goliath** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:16 pm

I think Pocahontas is lightyears better than Lion King, but not as good as a lot of the other 1990's films. Its main flaw that it tries too hard to be an 'epic' movie, supposedly because Katzenberg (then in charge with Disney Animation) wanted it to win the 'Best Picture' Award that Beauty and the Beast never got. Oh, and the animal sidekicks suck. But other than that, you've got: gorgeous animation, beautiful songs, appealing characters, strong voice-cast and one of Disney's most memorable endings. really daring to end it on an 'unhappy' note.

The reason why Pocahontas is thought of as having 'killed' that so-called 'Golden Age' (which was less consistent than people would have you believe, since Rescuers Down Under underperformed dramatically), is because it didn't make as much money as Lion King, which would be an unnatural thing to ask at that time. Still, the movie and its successors made numbers that I think any competitor at the time would have dreamed of.

DisneyAnimation88 · Post by **DisneyAnimation88** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:36 pm

To be honest, I've never really thought of one particular film killing the Disney Renaissance but rather the non-creative executives who bombarded directors with story suggestions that ultimately altered the films from the original visions and concepts. Adding to that the departure of Jeffrey Katzenberg, I think Disney animation was always heading for a fall without a recognised, creative leader.

RIPJoeRanft · Post by **RIPJoeRanft** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:01 pm

Boring, preachy, unlikeable characters, ruined the momentum of the Disney animation resurgence (and Pixar gladly stepped in and took the ball from them with Toy Story). Just dull and lifeless and not a whole lot of fun, trying hard to be an "epic" animation adventure and failing. Even the villain was a snooze (and captivating villains can often save even the most mundane Disney films), and his big song was instantly forgettable.

FigmentJedi · Post by **FigmentJedi** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:22 pm

Pocahontas was "Trying Too Hard: The Movie". I find it incredibly funny they expected it to be the stupidly successful one while Lion King would be a forgettable derp of a film.

Super Aurora · Post by **Super Aurora** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:27 pm

FigmentJedi wrote:Pocahontas was "Trying Too Hard: The Movie". I find it incredibly funny they expected it to be the stupidly successful one while Lion King would be a forgettable derp of a film.

/thread.

ajmrowland · Post by **ajmrowland** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:03 pm

sunhuntin wrote:i saw both as a kid... i was 9 when TLK came out, cant remember how old when pocahontas was released. i loved pocah more than tlk and was obsessed with it for quite some time, collecting all sorts of memoraiblia.

i did hate the sequel immensly for the bear baiting scene... i always skip over that.

you would've been 10. And I've heard hatred for different reasons. Some native americans of today are quite offended by the romanticism.

Scarred4life · Post by **Scarred4life** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:05 pm

I love Pocahontas! Aside from the sidekicks, (and the sequel) it is one of my absolute favourites.

megustajake · Post by **megustajake** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:15 pm

I think the end of the renaissance ended in 1999 with "Tarzan". "Dinosaur" and "The Emperor's New Groove" in 2000 were significant downfalls, if not in visual animation, then in storytelling.

To me, as much as I love the Big 4, "Pocahontas", "The Hunchback of Notre Dame", "Hercules", "Mulan", and "Tarzan" were just as strong and offered, in some cases, stronger animation and scores.

ajmrowland · Post by **ajmrowland** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:36 pm

Do not diss the groove. Dinosaur, you can diss.

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Is Pocahontas really hated?

Is Pocahontas really hated?