Episode 4: A New Hope for Gay UD Threads?

[PatrickvD]

I used to feel the same way, but keep in mind, the guys that do not act effeminate are also invisible as gay people. You probably pass by hundreds of guys each year you think are straight just because they fit that mold. But if you continue to label people you will not get any further. I still regularly meet guys who I never thought were gay, but still they are. Our feelings are on the inside after all.

I understand how difficult it is, but there is so much more than meets the eye to people.... gay or straight. My advice would be not to let all this get to you and stay true to yourself. Love is the last thing on earth you will find if you're not being yourself or if you're trying to be somebody you're not.

[Disney Duster]

I am one of those guys that is pretty flamboyant and effeminate, and I am not doing it on purpose or because I choose to do it. I have been told by some guys I'm not the type they would have known I was gay before they found out, but I'm pretty darn girly in my opinion. My favorite Disney movies are all the princess ones, the "girlier" ones. Being effeminate or flamboyant is born in you, just like being gay is.

And if you don't think you fit the stereotypes, there is one you fit. There are so many gay guys that love Disney, and just being here makes you fit "the mold".

And I think that the reason people are so bothered by the more feminine acting boys is the same as why some people are bothered by girls acting more masculine. We find people acting against their gender characteristics to be strange. For some reason it is a little more accepted that girls act tomboyish but that is probably because we live in a male dominated society, but who knows, maybe it is because amongst most people there is an inner hatred of all things feminine, which I personally don't understand because I love feminine things better than masculine things.

[Dr Frankenollie]

I wouldn't describe myself as "labelling" gays based on stereotypes; I am virtually on the lookout for other gay people, and recognise the possibility of some masculine boys being gay, regardless of having thus far failed to meet one.

Upon reflection, I'm sure the effeminate gays are behaving as they truly are. But I don't want them to be, because, confessedly, much of my dislike is derivative of envy. They are happy, they can communicate with others. My inherent idiosyncrasies therefore cannot be attributed to something like my sexuality, as much as I would like it to be (for then I would know for certain that others would be like me, and empathise). I am not the absurdist outsider because I'm gay. I am the absurdist outsider because I am me. And sometimes, when I look upon others with jealousy, I do not wish to be. Any negative feelings towards them are certainly not due to gender norms, even if they might play a part in the dislike of feminine gays amongst others.

In fact, I think I fit some stereotypes to a mild extent. As Duster stated, I am a fan of Disney; moreover, I'm certainly not masculine. I do have somewhat effeminate traits, and have been told that I can be recognised as gay, although obviously these traits are nowhere near as pronounced or over-the-top as other gays I know.

[Disney Duster]

Hm. I see. I'm envious of happier people too. The happy gays who find it so easy to talk with and get other gays. But if you exist, there will be other people out there who are like you, and when you find them, you will be happy.

[Super Aurora]

I am one of those guys that is pretty flamboyant and effeminate,

You got that right! Although you don't dress flamboyant and effeminate. Just geeky.

I have been told by some guys I'm not the type they would have known I was gay before they found out, but I'm pretty darn girly in my opinion.

Those guys much be either blind or fucking dumb, cause you're as gay to what I'm being straight as a ruler.

[Disney Duster]

LOL

[my chicken is infected]

A question for you guys.

How do you feel about the way gays are portrayed in movies/TV?

I´ve seen several and read the plot for most. And even to this day I keep finding that you can count with the fingers in your hands how many have not just normal guys that no one would have known they´re gay or good looking ones.

Most of the times the stories the protagonist is a teenager or very skinny.

The only one I've seen that they did used a handsome and normal guy was Eating Out 2.

I have a lot of issues with how gay men are portrayed in mainstream films and TV. Unlike lesbians, where you occasionally see lesbians with various styles, attitudes, races, etc., there's basically two types of gay men 98% of the time - loud obnoxious flaming whores who will screw anything male that's breathing and the bitter undersexed man who uses witty jokes to hide his self-loathing. (Incidentally, I just described the two gay leads in Will And Grace, except they were written well so they actually rose above the usual annoyance that comes with the stereotypes.) And they're usually either incredibly fit or twinks. Rarely any "normal" men, monogamous men with long term relationships, happy gay men, couples who aren't monogamous yet still love each other, gay men with any body hair whatsoever, older gay men, bears, cubs, etc. I never cared for the show Happy Endings, but I liked that they had a gay character who didn't fit either of the usual two gay male characters you see on TV.

And then there's gay films, which...well, they're usually bad. They're usually softcore porn, depressing stories about coming out where the guys don't get happy endings, or loud obnoxious comedies about having as much sex with as many people as possible. There's nothing wrong with any of that, nor is there anything wrong with the Wills and Jacks in mainstream films and TV. After all, those characterizations and stories are also true and deserve just as much exposure as other kinds. What's wrong is that we're almost always limited to these choices. I've seen a couple of films that, happily, made variations. One I really enjoyed was Shelter, a film about a young man's coming out. Not only were he and his lover fairly masculine, but it has a somewhat happy ending. I also enjoyed Were The World Mine - again, a happy ending.

I think things are getting better, tho. We're starting to see variety in the portrayals of gay men, not just in gay-targeted TV/film, but in mainstream TV/film too. It's still not where I'd like it to be, but it's coming along. Even with the semi-stereotypical characters, such as Kurt on Glee for example, they're finally being fleshed out and the dial turned down a little so that they actually seem human and not like caricatures. Kurt is one of the better "stereotypical" characters I've seen in years, because he's not completely boxed into the categories I mentioned earlier. Granted I didn't watch season 4, but I'm assuming he didn't whore himself out to every gay man in town during that season either (Not that having a lot of sexual partners is wrong, as long as you protect yourself and respect yourself.), and he isn't super loud, obnoxious, but actually comes across as an actual human we all probably know. Yes, he has falsetto singing, yes he loves Judy, Liza, Barbra, Bette (these are names I shan't forget...teehee), yes he's a fashionista. But he's written and Chris Colfer plays him so that he fits some of the qualities, but isn't completely in that box.

I suspect within the next five years, we may even get what I'd love - a mainstream romantic comedy between two men who get together in the end and both aren't complete Liza Minnelli-worshipping finger-snapping oversexed lisping "O HAI GURLFRAAANNNN"-ing limp-wristed stereotypes.

[RyGuy]

A question for you guys.

How do you feel about the way gays are portrayed in movies/TV?

I´ve seen several and read the plot for most. And even to this day I keep finding that you can count with the fingers in your hands how many have not just normal guys that no one would have known they´re gay or good looking ones.

Most of the times the stories the protagonist is a teenager or very skinny.

The only one I've seen that they did used a handsome and normal guy was Eating Out 2.

I have a lot of issues with how gay men are portrayed in mainstream films and TV. Unlike lesbians, where you occasionally see lesbians with various styles, attitudes, races, etc., there's basically two types of gay men 98% of the time - loud obnoxious flaming whores who will screw anything male that's breathing and the bitter undersexed man who uses witty jokes to hide his self-loathing. (Incidentally, I just described the two gay leads in Will And Grace, except they were written well so they actually rose above the usual annoyance that comes with the stereotypes.) And they're usually either incredibly fit or twinks. Rarely any "normal" men, monogamous men with long term relationships, happy gay men, couples who aren't monogamous yet still love each other, gay men with any body hair whatsoever, older gay men, bears, cubs, etc. I never cared for the show Happy Endings, but I liked that they had a gay character who didn't fit either of the usual two gay male characters you see on TV.

And then there's gay films, which...well, they're usually bad. They're usually softcore porn, depressing stories about coming out where the guys don't get happy endings, or loud obnoxious comedies about having as much sex with as many people as possible. There's nothing wrong with any of that, nor is there anything wrong with the Wills and Jacks in mainstream films and TV. After all, those characterizations and stories are also true and deserve just as much exposure as other kinds. What's wrong is that we're almost always limited to these choices. I've seen a couple of films that, happily, made variations. One I really enjoyed was Shelter, a film about a young man's coming out. Not only were he and his lover fairly masculine, but it has a somewhat happy ending. I also enjoyed Were The World Mine - again, a happy ending.

I think things are getting better, tho. We're starting to see variety in the portrayals of gay men, not just in gay-targeted TV/film, but in mainstream TV/film too. It's still not where I'd like it to be, but it's coming along. Even with the semi-stereotypical characters, such as Kurt on Glee for example, they're finally being fleshed out and the dial turned down a little so that they actually seem human and not like caricatures. Kurt is one of the better "stereotypical" characters I've seen in years, because he's not completely boxed into the categories I mentioned earlier. Granted I didn't watch season 4, but I'm assuming he didn't whore himself out to every gay man in town during that season either (Not that having a lot of sexual partners is wrong, as long as you protect yourself and respect yourself.), and he isn't super loud, obnoxious, but actually comes across as an actual human we all probably know. Yes, he has falsetto singing, yes he loves Judy, Liza, Barbra, Bette (these are names I shan't forget...teehee), yes he's a fashionista. But he's written and Chris Colfer plays him so that he fits some of the qualities, but isn't completely in that box.

I suspect within the next five years, we may even get what I'd love - a mainstream romantic comedy between two men who get together in the end and both aren't complete Liza Minnelli-worshipping finger-snapping oversexed lisping "O HAI GURLFRAAANNNN"-ing limp-wristed stereotypes.

I take it you don't watch Scandal? One of the major characters (I won't say which one) is gay and isn't stereotypical. In fact, when that was revealed i forget how many episodes in, my wife and I looked at each other and were like, "Whoa! Didn't see THAT coming!"

Of course this character's husband absolutely fits the stereotype you describe . . .

[my chicken is infected]

Nope, I don't watch Scandal, but that just proves what I said about improvements being made in the characterizations of gay male characters on TV and in film. It's not where I'd like to be, but progress is happening, and hopefully it will continue to happen.

[carolinakid]

They were lousy shows but I think the characters in Dante's Cove and The Lair broke stereotypes.

[Dominicboo]

Hello! My name is Dominic and I'm most likely a gay 17 year old boy. I say most likely because honestly I thought I could have been straight because I thought I liked the girls I would play with as a kid, but now I know the difference between friend and crush. There's a really really cute guy at my school and he's stragiht and taken! I just don't know what to do. I still want to be his friend, but he realizes I'm trying to get closer to him! So to anybody who has had a signifciant other of the same gender how do you know when somebody you like is well...gay?

[Disney's Divinity]

I find the best way to know is to ask. Of course, that's hard to do if you're not out yourself. In that case, it's just watching for a bunch of signals, etc. which is really hard to be 100% sure about and can have repercussions you may not want if you're not out.

If you are out though, I usually just ask if someone is gay in a way that sounds like I'm just curious/not interested. After I know for sure or not, I start moving in over time--about the same as heterosexuals from this point, I guess?

[Dominicboo]

I find the best way to know is to ask. Of course, that's hard to do if you're not out yourself. In that case, it's just watching for a bunch of signals, etc. which is really hard to be 100% sure about and can have repercussions you may not want if you're not out.

If you are out though, I usually just ask if someone is gay in a way that sounds like I'm just curious/not interested. After I know for sure or not, I start moving in over time--about the same as heterosexuals from this point, I guess?

Oh I get it! Thank you DisneyDuster!

[Disney Duster]

Dominicboo that wasn't me that was Disney's Divinity.

[Dominicboo]

Oh sorry! Silly me and thanks Divinity.

[disneyboy20022]

Boehner opposes landmark U.S. gay-rights bill, dimming its chances
http://news.yahoo.com/boehner-opposes-l ... 02939.html

[Disney's Divinity]

Looks like both Illinois and Hawaii will be passing gay marriage. States #15 and 16!

[carolinakid]

I just realized how We Kiss In A Shadow (The King and I) and The Way He Makes Me Feel (Yentl) have perfect gay subtexts. Duh!

[carolinakid]

There's a new gay themed series on HBO starting in January 2014. It's called Looking and it's set in San Francisco. Looks promising...

[Dominicboo]

I just realized how We Kiss In A Shadow (The King and I) and The Way He Makes Me Feel (Yentl) have perfect gay subtexts. Duh!

Hey, and howh about this in King and I too. "Hello young lovers whoever you are..." It makes me think they really did do a good job on being open-minded about all people.