Episode 4: A New Hope for Gay UD Threads?

[Flanger-Hanger]

I find it telling that Lionsgate has to make an official pro-gay statement before releasing Ender's Game:

http://equalityontrial.com/qh/lionsgate ... -container

Too bad OSC will still make money off the film from royalties and fund them into further anti-gay efforts.

[Disney Duster]

Wow Dr. Frankenollie, I'm sorry you went through all that! Man was that girl a bitch! You know you weren't an idiot, emotions are things we are supposed to let drive us sometimes. I'm pleasantly surprised your parents were so accepting. You know, I wrote a card that had implications of love to a straight guy I had a deep infatuation with. I got called names and stuff there (and guess what, it was also a Catholic school!) and I also said I was bisexual to even my very accepting friends (almost all girls) because I thought maybe I could like girls in that way (and when I was little I had a puppy love crush on one. Has anyone else here who's gay had that for the opposite sex?). Anyway, that was a great read! What a story. I was so worried for you. Glad it turned out much better than the awful terror it could have been! A fairly happy ending. I wish you luck with getting over your infatuation with a guy who is completely straight though. : (

[Disney's Divinity]

Wow, Dr. F, you’re coming out story was a lot more interesting than mine. Maybe I’m a bit of a coward, but I didn’t come out to friends until high school had ended, although I think a lot of people realized. I wouldn’t have lied about it if someone had asked, but didn’t bring it up. There was one open gay guy in my high school, but he graduated when I finished Freshman year, so I never knew him well at all. There were a shitload of lesbians for some reason (I don’t believe all of them really were lesbians though; one of my friends who was apparently met a guy, got married, and has a child now… ). At break time, they’d all be at the front of school kissing, etc. I’m sure there were other gay guys possibly, but they weren’t open. I’m pretty sure I’m the only one in my graduating class though (out of 50 people--small school). Being in Catholic school must’ve been a fun experience…

I believe I became conscious of my sexuality around 8th grade (puberty), although looking back it was there earlier. I remember having friends in middle school, and being especially attached to one of my friends and being jealous when he would get closer to other friends in the group than me and I didn‘t understand why.

[Dr Frankenollie]

and when I was little I had a puppy love crush on one. Has anyone else here who's gay had that for the opposite sex?

Not me. I can, as I'm heterosexual males can for other males, appreciate feminine beauty in an aesthetic, detached manner, in the same fashion as appreciating a beautiful painting or beautiful architecture. Beyond that, I don't see much appeal. What is the appeal of breasts? They're merely volleyballs wrapped in skin, protruding jarringly.

Did the straight guy you wrote a card to call you names as well? Did he react in a flattered way, or a more negative way? I have come close to informing my own straight crush that I like him, but the possibility of a negative reaction always halts me. I'm unlikely to see him again, as he is going to a different school in September, so hopefully that could reduce my attraction. Then again: 'absence makes the heart grow fonder."

@Disney's Divinity: Regarding the number of "lesbians" you knew...I've wondered if we are inherently bisexual, or pansexual, and that merely sociological factors and experiences shape which gender we become more attracted to. Sexual experimentation and open-mindedness are certainly good things. Then again, you mention that, like me, you can retrospectively see your homosexuality before puberty. I doubt it's a genetic matter, because evolution surely would have wiped out any "homosexual genes".

[Wonderlicious]

I think that faith schools in the UK do tend to be more moderate than a lot of their foreign counterparts due to the fact that most are state schools and must tow the more secular government line to a great degree. Regardless, I have had a few run-ins with religious schools, and I do think that faith schools need to do much more to tackle homophobic bullying. And believe me, these words aren't coming from some hard-line atheist, but rather someone who shares a lot of Christian ethical values (of which condemning homosexuality is not one ). I went to a Catholic school and the attitudes there, in addition to the relatively high apathy towards tackling homophobia, were probably a large reason why I kept myself closeted until my early 20s. I also did a teaching placement at a middle-class Catholic school and some of the staff were just downright ignorant. They weren't exactly flying swastikas and using the N word, but it was pretty clear that you had to fit a certain bill to be accepted. Having said that, I also did a teaching placement at an inner-city Catholic school and the staff there were really open-minded and accepting (not to mention really friendly).

My coming out was pretty gradual and non dramatic, which is basically what I wanted. I'd got ill and had been out of action, but decided the time was right and that I was truly beginning to realise that being homosexual didn't mean I couldn't live a life I wanted. Part of my closeted self worried that every single person around me suspected I was gay, so I was surprised how few people suspected I was gay. I'm not camp and flamboyant, but I'm definitely not a red-blooded jock. Two good friends, one of whom I used to live with, had absolutely had no idea I may have been gay. In addition, a lot of people thought I might have actually been developing a relationship with a straight female friend of mine just prior to my coming out (interestingly, this friend was the first person I came out to face-to-face).

The only element that I suppose could cause shock is that I was 24 (nearly 25) when I finally did it. I sometimes wonder what it would be like had I come out at an earlier age (let's say the 16-18 age range; aka end of high school, beginning of university). Part of me says I should have, but I don't think I would have been emotionally ready and that accepting of myself due to my overall low self-esteem at the time. Furthermore, I think I would have probably felt more pressured to act like a stereotype (sad to say, I have seen some people fall into this trap), and also may have felt pressured to not pursue friendships with straight males. I would rather live my life in my own way than pursue a sort of forced "scene" lifestyle that I know a lot of people get stuck into. In all honesty, I think the important thing is that I am out the closet, and moreover while I'm still young. I've not managed to snag a long-term boyfriend yet, but I'm meeting (and kissing ) fellow gay/bi men, so I know I must be doing something right.

[ProfessorRatigan]

Maybe I’m a bit of a coward, but I didn’t come out to friends until high school had ended, although I think a lot of people realized. I wouldn’t have lied about it if someone had asked, but didn’t bring it up.

This. I do wonder where Dr. Frankenollie is growing up, though I realize that's a bit personal to just put on a forum like this, but it just astounds me. Having the courage to be out at 16? Maybe it's because I grew up in the south, in a region of intense religiosity, and came into my sexuality around 2003 (when the bush administration was making waves by inciting anti-gay sentiment to drive out evangelical voters) so, I kind of kept my head down in high school. I didn't lie about my sexuality or pretend to date or be interested in women. I just never brought up the subject and, when questioned, made jokes and changed the subject. There were no openly gay guys at my high school. If there had been, I'm sure they would have been public enemy number one. There were a number of very feminine guys who were quite obviously gay and they got it pretty bad.

The jocks in our school were frothing-at-the-mouth types who went NUTS when the issue of male homosexuality came up. I remember this one time, we had to watch a video on tolerance. A substitute teacher was there that day. Anyway, the video had a section on homophobia and interviews with gay men who had been gay bashed. The jocks in our class went RABID. It really fucking frightened me. They were screaming, "FAGGOT! FAGGOT!" Spitting, throwing shit at the TV. The substitute teacher, a little old lady, just smiled and shook her head. The guy behind me was nearly ripping the top of his desk off, his face red with apoplectic rage. That's the atmosphere I grew up in. Male homosexuality (NEVER female, because lesbians were, to them, there for them to jerk off to, I guess) was considered the worst and most disgusting thing in existence. (But then, we had actual KKK members in our school, so, the bigotry wasn't limited to JUST homophobia.)

The first time I came out was about two years after high school had ended. A friend of mine who had graduated a year earlier, and who I hadn't seen since that time, got back in touch with me and we decided to hang out and catch up. We went and saw the Lion King in 3D. A few weeks later, she came over and asked if I was bisexual. I told her no, that I was gay. She was kind of shocked, but was cool and totally accepting. She actually later told me she totally could see it upon reflection, looking back to our high school years because of how different I was from all the other straight guys. I was out to her sister kind of by default as well. When the Chick-Fil-A scandal happened I came out to quite a few people, including several of my closer friends, who, again, pretty much KNEW, it was just an unspoken thing. I changed my Facebook 'interested in' to 'men' on national coming out day in 2011, so, I've been 'out' to everyone on there (pretty much the friends I grew up with and am still close to) since then. (Nobody has brought it up or acknowledged it, which either means everybody knows and doesn't care or that they don't frequent my Facebook profile. )

I'm not out to my parents or grandfather, though. I live with my mother and I don't have much of a relationship at all with my father. I think my mom probably knows. I don't really talk about sex with her, though, so it's never really come up. I've not been in a relationship as I figured I'd wait until I was out on my own, paying my own bills, employed and all that before I started dating. Unfortunately, that's been harder than I anticipated (stupid economy!). I've mostly focused on my writing and trying to get off the ground with that. My love-life is kind of on the back-burner, but I suppose it'd be nice to find someone.

I'll come out to them eventually, though. I'm 21. It won't exactly 'hurt the cause' if I wait until I'm on my own, able to support myself before I tell them. (Now, if a gay issue is put to vote here in that time, I'll be sure to pull the band-aid off and just do it.)

[Disney Duster]

Dr Frankenollie, yes, they are just volleyballs lol. The girl I had a crush on was just my friend and was pretty. As for the guy I wrote a card to, he didn't make fun of me at all. In fact it was his friends that did. I got a note back from him that I believe was actually written by his friends and was just harsh in being clear he wasn't interested in me, and I got called a faggot and they said "we heard you like [the boy I had a crush on]'s weiner." This guy was thought to be possibly gay by his friends and even his girlfriend's family. His friends would joke about him being gay, so, aside from the looks he gave me that gave me butterflies, that's why I thought he was gay.

In your issue, I don't think you will get a good reaction from the guy unless you know he's a nice guy. However you would get the good feelings of having told your true feelings and knowing for sure how he felt.

Wonderlicious, I'm sorry about how you came out so much later, but I am glad you didn't have any terrible experiences either! And you meeting and making out with guys is really good! Your getting some bro, what some of us aren't even getting half of!

ProfessorRatigan, wow, that story was intense! I'm sorry you had to grow up in that, it must've made you afraid to be gay! Glad there seem to be no worries now, at least about that.

[Flanger-Hanger]

In case you missed the news England and Wales have legalized same-sex marriage and those will begin next year. Scotland will have its own leglisation, while Northern Ireland has declined to take up the issue.

[Flanger-Hanger]

Uh-oh, Fox News is getting too "Liberal" :

http://www.advocate.com/politics/media/ ... ne-pro-gay

[disneyboy20022]

Chris Christie Signs Ban On Gay Conversion Therapy
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/1 ... 79489.html

TRENTON, N.J. -- Republican Gov. Chris Christie signed a law on Monday barring licensed therapists from trying to turn gay teenagers straight, the latest example of the potential 2016 presidential candidate steering a moderate course.

The governor said the health risks of trying to change a child's sexual orientation, as identified by the American Psychological Association, trump concerns over the government setting limits on parental choice. "Government should tread carefully into this area," he said in the signing note, "and I do so here reluctantly."

In signing the ban, Christie reiterated his belief that people are born gay and homosexuality is not a sin, a position he first stated in a 2011 interview with CNN's Piers Morgan. That view is inconsistent with his Catholic faith, which teaches that homosexual acts are sins.

WOW. Just WOW. Amen to that. At one point Christians didn't support the marriage of a black and white couple getting married so I feel very firmly as a Christian of what Chris Christie said about being Gay isn't a sin. Give it some time and I'm sure my belief will be implemented, just like it's no longer a sin for a black person and a white person to get married.

[Super Aurora]

Christie actually one of the much better Republicans out there and because he's working with a over majority democrat region, it helps balance him out from any far right republican ideals into him. Although there are some faults with him, He has done more good than bad I think.

[ajmrowland]

Yeah, he's actually one of the few politicians I have some respect for.

[disneyboy20022]

Gay marriages to be recognized across US by IRS
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/same-se ... 8C11034114

[Jules]

DrFrankenollie, you are a terrific writer.

[Dr Frankenollie]

Thank you, Jules; I do try to be.

[Wonderlicious]

As I said, my coming out has been a very positive experience overall, but does anyone who was in a similar position feel that the excitement kinda peaks then drops? I feel that I've hit a slight slump recently. My city has quite a big gay scene, but I'm really struggling to truly crack it. I have had to rely on a lot of straight girl friends to go to gay bars and clubs, and a lot of them have been broke recently, plus a lot are moving away from my city. I have one gay friend (interestingly, he's my flatmate), but he's been quite busy with a new boyfriend, so I don't want to disturb him too much. Guys who I talk to on apps and dating sites are too interested in quick dates and you-know-what. I plan on trying a gay and lesbian choir (I haven't sung in a choir since leaving high school some seven years ago, mind you), but I got told by the leader to wait a few weeks because their sessions aimed at new members aren't until mid to late September. Furthermore, none of the gay sports societies in the local area cater for my exact interests. I'm beginning to feel quite frustrated now...gah.

In more positive news, though, I recently experienced my first Pride festival, which was very good fun (at least from what I remember ).

[Dr Frankenollie]

As I said, my coming out has been a very positive experience overall, but does anyone who was in a similar position feel that the excitement kinda peaks then drops?

I think I can relate; coming out feels as though you're finally going to go off and get what you want, and find happiness and self-fulfillment, but in reality it's merely vocalising what you want, rather than making steps to get it.

What do others here feel about the flippant, casual usage of the word 'gay' (or alternatives like fag and so forth) in a generally negative way, without necessarily pertaining to homosexuality? I have had debates about this with people at my school, who incessantly insist that it is not homophobia. It frustrates me how I am unable to convince them that they shouldn't use that language, even if they're not intending to be homophobic in saying it. Besides, it is evidently related to it, because the word is often applied to males behaving effeminately or things that reflect femininity or weakness.

And on a completely different note...good God, but why do all the stereotypes have to be so bloody accurate? I know of two other gays, and both are walking caricatures of gay people. I'm not, and it is frustrating for a number of reasons: firstly, it makes me feel almost insecure or uncertain about whether I truly am or not, which is something I thought I had always resolved within myself; secondly, it gives people who use stereotypes and are homophobic justification and indirect support.

The above is likely a bit of a meandering stream of consciousness, but I am admittedly venting.

[Sotiris]

I know of two other gays, and both are walking caricatures of gay people. I'm not, and it is frustrating for a number of reasons: firstly, it makes me feel almost insecure or uncertain about whether I truly am or not, which is something I thought I had always resolved within myself; secondly, it gives people who use stereotypes and are homophobic justification and indirect support.

Firstly, you shouldn't feel uncertain about your sexuality just because you don't fit into a certain mold. You don't need to conform to cultural expectations. Homosexuality is defined as being sexually and/or romantically attracted to people of the same sex. That's the only requirement. Everything else is irrelevant. Do all straight people look and behave the same? No.

Secondly, I don't think it's fair to reduce gays who are more effeminate or flamboyant to mere caricatures. They have the right to behave and look as they wish and as they feel. It certainly does not give homophobes any justification or support. Even if all the gays in the world fitted the stereotype, it still wouldn't justify homophobia. If you had met two black people who fitted the "black stereotype" would you have blamed them for indirectly supporting racism? This case is no different. It's not their fault society has made effeminate gays as the stereotype in order to easily mock, dehumanize and homogenize all gay people. I think the aversion towards effeminate gays, even within the LGBT community, stems from all the negative attributes associated with femininity and it's an internalized form of misogyny.

[Dr Frankenollie]

Firstly, you shouldn't feel uncertain about your sexuality just because you don't fit into a certain mold. You don't need to conform to cultural expectations. Homosexuality is defined as being sexually and/or romantically attracted to people of the same sex. That's it. Everything else is irrelevant. Do all straight people look and behave the same? No.

OK; it's irrational of me to do so. Yet sexuality is not a simple or easy thing, and when it appears that the overwhelming majority of gay people all act in a uniform manner, it can't simply be a coincidence for each individual. There is doubtlessly an inclination to certain behaviour that is nowhere near as prevalent amongst straight people, and the fact I do not conform to this behaviour has, in a way, concerned me.

Secondly, I don't think it's fair to reduce gays who are more effeminate or flamboyant to mere caricatures. They have the right to behave and look as they wish and as they feel.

But are the qualities in question as they truly wish and as they truly feel? Or are they concessions towards straights, conforming to stereotypes for acceptance and to attain a facade of the individuality they desire and may lack?

[Sotiris]

When it appears that the overwhelming majority of gay people all act in a uniform manner, it can't simply be a coincidence for each individual.

I'm not too sure about that. Appearances do not always correspond to reality. I think your perception about this is being influenced by your current environment and the portrayal of gay people in the media.

But are the qualities in question as they truly wish and as they truly feel? Or are they concessions towards straights, conforming to stereotypes for acceptance and to attain a facade of the individuality they desire and may lack?

Well, that's up to them to figure out. We can't possibly know whether they consciously want to look and behave a certain way or whether they're being pressured into conforming to what's expected of them. I believe, though, we shouldn't pass judgement either way. Everyone should be free to act as they wish as long as they're not hurting anybody. There's nothing inherently negative or immoral about being flamboyant or effeminate.