Frozen: Part V

[PrincessElsa]

Two early video reviews:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-eX9JtkLUM[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxNBHVUA8xs[/youtube]

Glowingly positive, with one common point of ambivalence -- the twist/reveal.

[disneyprincess11]

Wow, these are getting me pumped for Thursday I love how the twist is hated

[jazzflower92]

I actually like the twist.

[Musical Master]

Me to!

[disneyprincess11]

I actually have mixed feelings.

I think it's brilliant, but at the same time: If they really want to make a prince evil for a change, I think Frozen was a bad time.

[Warm Regards]

I actually have mixed feelings.

I think it's brilliant, but at the same time: If they really want to make a prince evil for a change, I think Frozen was a bad time.

Interesting that you say that. If I may ask, is it for shipping reasons, or something else?

[jazzflower92]

I actually have mixed feelings.

I think it's brilliant, but at the same time: If they really want to make a prince evil for a change, I think Frozen was a bad time.

I don't know I actually think Hans was the perfect villain for this movie with the Duke being the red herring. Anna yearned for affection to the point she married a guy she just met. In real life Anna is like so many girls who flock to a seemingly nice man because of years of being deprived of affection. But as time goes on that so called nice guy was actually putting on a façade so they use girls for selfish purposes.

[Alphapanchito]

I actually have mixed feelings.

I think it's brilliant, but at the same time: If they really want to make a prince evil for a change, I think Frozen was a bad time.

Huh.I thought it was a perfect story to make the handsome prince evil, considering that a main theme is how romantic love is not always the most important thing, and other kinds of platonic love can sometimes be just as strong and even more important. Unless you mean something outside of the story, like the state of the company or audience or something?

[jazzflower92]

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2 ... disney.jpg

It looks like this is what they had in mind when designing Hans because they needed to give him the right look so he would not be easily identified as a villain. In design he reminds me of Griffith from the manga Berserk who has great beauty but inside he is a very evil person who will do anything to achieve his goals even if it means sacrificing his companions.

http://berserk.wikia.com/wiki/Griffith

[Musical Master]

I actually have mixed feelings.

I think it's brilliant, but at the same time: If they really want to make a prince evil for a change, I think Frozen was a bad time.

Huh.I thought it was a perfect story to make the handsome prince evil, considering that a main theme is how romantic love is not always the most important thing, and other kinds of platonic love can sometimes be just as strong and even more important. Unless you mean something outside of the story, like the state of the company or audience or something?

Exactly.

[PrincessElsa]

The review I posted the other day mentioned that the problem in that scene was not just content but a clash in tone between more realistic-sounding dialogue and more melodramatic dialogue:

http://kioewen.tumblr.com/post/66569882871/

I was very curious to see how I would feel about the Hans twist, and unfortunately, it does seem like nothing more than a twist-for-twist’s-sake. I hoped it might not. But the problem is as much one of tone as anything else. In a film that otherwise eschews clichés, Hans begins speaking in a very melodramatic, clichéd manner in the library scene, like a pantomime villain (“You won’t get away with this.” “I already have.”), which detracts from the believability of the heel turn, which was problematic to begin with.

If Hans had as at least continued speaking in a realistic manner – e.g., telling Anna that Elsa needs to die, and that he knows that she wouldn’t go along with this hard choice – then the scene would have played out more believably, less melodramatically, and remained consistent in tone with the rest of the movie.

If the rest of the film has people speaking more naturalistically, and suddenly Hans starts talking like a moustache-twirler, then it feels like it's from a different kind of movie, and that can take you out of the story; in other words, not just the turn itself but how it's executed.

[Alphapanchito]

The review I posted the other day mentioned that the problem in that scene was not just content but a clash in tone between more realistic-sounding dialogue and more melodramatic dialogue:

http://kioewen.tumblr.com/post/66569882871/

I was very curious to see how I would feel about the Hans twist, and unfortunately, it does seem like nothing more than a twist-for-twist’s-sake. I hoped it might not. But the problem is as much one of tone as anything else. In a film that otherwise eschews clichés, Hans begins speaking in a very melodramatic, clichéd manner in the library scene, like a pantomime villain (“You won’t get away with this.” “I already have.”), which detracts from the believability of the heel turn, which was problematic to begin with.

If Hans had as at least continued speaking in a realistic manner – e.g., telling Anna that Elsa needs to die, and that he knows that she wouldn’t go along with this hard choice – then the scene would have played out more believably, less melodramatically, and remained consistent in tone with the rest of the movie.

If the rest of the film has people speaking more naturalistically, and suddenly Hans starts talking like a moustache-twirler, then it feels like it's from a different kind of movie, and that can take you out of the story; in other words, not just the turn itself but how it's executed.

I can agree with that. And i did notice that in the theater. And it was a bit jarring to see. But after thinking about it, it kinda made sense to me? Because after he does his whole villain spiel to Anna, he does go on with his cover to everyone else, including Elsa (even though he is planning on offing her moments after he lies to her about Anna's death in his nice guy voice). He could've just told her that it has to be done, in order to stop the winter. I bet Elsa would've agreed, especially if she thought her sister was alive, so at least Anna can finally live the life she wants, even if she can never. But no, he just wanted to see Elsa in horrible pain and grief before he killed her. Hans is probably a psychopath. He literally just likes manipulate people and cause them as much fear and pain as possible.
In the same way, he just loves the fact that Anna loves him, and thinks he returns her love. He does his villain spiel because he wants to hurt her as much as possible before she finally freezes.
So yeah, the tone change could've been dialed down a little bit, but i think explaining his plan to Anna makes sense for his character. I also think that the tone change may help smaller children better understand what is going on. Because it is a weird kind of plot twist for this kind of movie, if it was more subtle some children might not understand exactly what is happening (maybe i'm underestimating small children). And even the tone change can be explained because he is, well, a manipulative psychopath.

[PrincessElsa]

I can agree with that. And i did notice that in the theater. And it was a bit jarring to see. But after thinking about it, it kinda made sense to me? Because after he does his whole villain spiel to Anna, he does go on with his cover to everyone else, including Elsa (even though he is planning on offing her moments after he lies to her about Anna's death in his nice guy voice). He could've just told her that it has to be done, in order to stop the winter. I bet Elsa would've agreed, especially if she thought her sister was alive, so at least Anna can finally live the life she wants, even if she can never. But no, he just wanted to see Elsa in horrible pain and grief before he killed her. Hans is probably a psychopath. He literally just likes manipulate people and cause them as much fear and pain as possible.
In the same way, he just loves the fact that Anna loves him, and thinks he returns her love. He does his villain spiel because he wants to hurt her as much as possible before she finally freezes.
So yeah, the tone change could've been dialed down a little bit, but i think explaining his plan to Anna makes sense for his character. And even the tone change can be explained because he is, well, a manipulative psychopath.

I hear what you're saying, but it strikes me as a bit too convenient for the screenwriters."Psychopath" is a bit like "evil," it's a too easy explanation for any behavior. ("What's he doing? That doesn't make sense." "It doesn't have to; he's a psychopath.") If it takes people out of the moment, it's not the best possible drama -- which is in accordance with your point that the tone could have dialed back.

I don't think it's possible to be sure that Hans wants to see Elsa in pain just for the fun of it. It strikes me as more of a tactical move. Hans has seen Elsa fighting for her life against the guards and on the point of killing them. He's battled her snow sentinel and only barely survived. He knows what she can do. If he wants to defeat her, emotionally compromising her is his only tactic. He's just a guy with a sword, after all, facing a foe who could do away with him quite handily, if he doesn't handle the situation properly.

[Alphapanchito]

Okay, that makes a lot of sense. I do agree with the Elsa part, and I totally overlooked that, so thank you for pointing that out. I also agree that saying he's a psychopath is the easy way out. I totally agree, although i still feel like he is pretty proud of himself for being that suave and tricking Anna into loving him. I feel like at this point he felt like he already won, and he kinda just wanted to rub it in Anna's face a bit. and I did edit my original reply to include that they had to make the tone change drastic so young children watching would totally get what was going on. I wish they did execute it better, but I am really glad they went this route nonetheless, because of the theme of the film.

[Coolmanio]

[quote="PrincessElsa"][quote="Alphapanchito"]I can agree with that. And i did notice that in the theater. And it was a bit jarring to see. But after thinking about it, it kinda made sense to me? Because after he does his whole villain spiel to Anna, he does go on with his cover to everyone else, including Elsa (even though he is planning on offing her moments after he lies to her about Anna's death in his nice guy voice). He could've just told her that it has to be done, in order to stop the winter. I bet Elsa would've agreed, especially if she thought her sister was alive, so at least Anna can finally live the life she wants, even if she can never. But no, he just wanted to see Elsa in horrible pain and grief before he killed her. Hans is probably a psychopath. He literally just likes manipulate people and cause them as much fear and pain as possible.
In the same way, he just loves the fact that Anna loves him, and thinks he returns her love. He does his villain spiel because he wants to hurt her as much as possible before she finally freezes.
So yeah, the tone change could've been dialed down a little bit, but i think explaining his plan to Anna makes sense for his character. And even the tone change can be explained because he is, well, a manipulative psychopath.[/quote]

I hear what you're saying, but it strikes me as a bit too convenient for the screenwriters."Psychopath" is a bit like "evil," it's a too easy explanation for any behavior. ("What's he doing? That doesn't make sense." "It doesn't have to; he's a psychopath.") If it takes people out of the moment, it's not the best possible drama -- which is in accordance with your point that the tone could have dialed back.

I don't think it's possible to be sure that Hans wants to see Elsa in pain just for the fun of it. It strikes me as more of a tactical move. Hans has seen Elsa fighting for her life against the guards and on the point of killing them. He's battled her snow sentinel and only barely survived. He knows what she can do. If he wants to defeat her, emotionally compromising her is his only tactic. He's just a guy with a sword, after all, facing a foe who could do away with him quite handily, if he doesn't handle the situation properly.[/quote]

Why is Hans' motivation so hard to understand? Marriage for the sake of possibly acquiring a throne or murdering in order to take a throne happens all the time in literature..... Has anybody read any Shakespeare?

'Frozen' flipped and poked fun at so many fairy tale cliche's (which were, ironically, mostly reinforced by Disney films in the first place), so the reveal that Hans is only in it for the power. The beautiful, perfect prince isn't always so perfect. You have to look further than that. A very modern reveal. I'll admit, I may have been thinking the same thing initially, but even thinking about it for a few minutes after the reveal, I realized how appropriate it actually was.

[TheBlibaBlob]

You guys complain too much

[DisneyFan09]

http://jorpor.tumblr.com/post/667705756 ... -cant-stop
http://jorpor.tumblr.com/post/667788494 ... ill-be-the

I get a Mary Blair vibe from those concept arts.

[Edthehyena]

PrincessElsa, your review/analysis is just so amazing. So long, impassioned and still accurate and right, critical at the same time.

[D82]

New TV spot
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR_kQ8RNz9E[/youtube]

[Coolmanio]

Color me surprised... Slant actually gave the movie a decent score. Not as great as the rest of them, but as a whole, the review is positive towards the film, and counts towards a "Fresh" score on RT.

Oh, and there is some weird paragraphs in the middle comparing Elsa's journey to a drag queens. I also do think that the overall rating was a little too harsh, but hey, it's Slant.

http://www.slantmagazine.com/film/review/frozen-2013