The Princess and the Frog Discussion - Part III

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Which is your favorite PatF character?

Princess Tiana
48
27%
Prince Naveen
19
11%
Dr. Facilier
33
19%
Mama Odie
7
4%
Eudora & James (Tiana's parents)
1
1%
Charlotte La Bouff
32
18%
Eli "Big Daddy" La Bouff (Charlotte's father)
1
1%
Ray (the firefly)
15
8%
Louis (the alligator)
19
11%
Other (say which)
3
2%
 
Total votes: 178

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pap64
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Post by pap64 »

I was watching The Aristocats when I noticed something...

Scat Cat may have been Louis's predecessor!

Both are trumpet playing, Jazz loving animals :p .

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Post by disneyboy20022 »

pap64 wrote:I was watching The Aristocats when I noticed something...

Scat Cat may have been Louis's predecessor!

Both are trumpet playing, Jazz loving animals :p .

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Actually Louis is reptile and Scat Cat is an animal... :P


But I get your point...I just tend to nitpick every now and then :P
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Post by slave2moonlight »

Phew, finally made it out to see the movie! I LOVED it! Based on what others had said, I was expecting something below par. As with a lot of current family animation, it was a bit heavy handed with the sweetness and love in the beginning (sometimes it is better just to let the visuals say things rather than flat out state them too, which can get cheesily sweet), but besides that it was just excellent! Granted, there isn't a hook song, but I loved the music so much anyway because I love the styles used in the film. I just really enjoyed the whole thing and can't wait for the Blu-Ray release. I actually think my favorite character was the prince for once, ha, but he was really funny in frog form.
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Post by Siren »

disneyboy20022 wrote:
Actually Louis is reptile and Scat Cat is an animal... :P


But I get your point...I just tend to nitpick every now and then :P
Not to nitpick as well and maybe I misunderstood you....but....
Yes, Louis is a reptile. Scat Cat is of course a cat....which makes them BOTH animals...which then makes them both jazz loving animals.
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Post by Sky Syndrome »

I put together a list of name meanings!
Dr. Facilier - based on the word 'facilitate'
Tiana - 'goddess' or 'princess'
Naveen - 'new' or 'youthful'
Charlotte - 'little and womanly'
Eli (Charlotte's dad) - 'high' or 'ascend'
Eudora (Tiana's mom) - 'good gift'
James (Tiana's dad) - 'supplanter'
Raymond - 'wise protector'
Evanjeline - 'bearer of good news'
Louis - 'fame and war'
Mama Odie (a form of the name Odell) - 'woad hill' (woad is a plant used to make blue dye)
Lawrence - 'crowned with laurel' Makes me imagine Lawrence dressed like the roly poly god of wine with the horned donkey in The Pastoral Symphony scene of Fantasia! :D :lol:
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jvButzoSEPk&hl ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jvButzoSEPk&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Spoiler:
I find it interesting Charlotte didn't become a frog. She kissed Naveen at midnight when she lost her status as princess of the Mardi Gras parade so the kiss didn't make Naveen and Tiana human but the kiss didn't backfire and turn Char into a frog.
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Post by estefan »

Sky Syndrome wrote: Spoiler:
I find it interesting Charlotte didn't become a frog. She kissed Naveen at midnight when she lost her status as princess of the Mardi Gras parade so the kiss didn't make Naveen and Tiana human but the kiss didn't backfire and turn Char into a frog.
I think the reason for that was Tiana had just broken Facilier's voodo device and so, the magic had disappeared all together. However, it could still be possible for a princess to kiss Naveen and they could turn back human. Which I have a feeling Mama Odie already knew. :wink:
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Post by Jules »

pap64 wrote:Image
Why does Scat Cat look like a blue whale?
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Post by Sky Syndrome »

^^^^^^Looks like a blue Lucifer to me.
estefan wrote:
Sky Syndrome wrote: Spoiler:
I find it interesting Charlotte didn't become a frog. She kissed Naveen at midnight when she lost her status as princess of the Mardi Gras parade so the kiss didn't make Naveen and Tiana human but the kiss didn't backfire and turn Char into a frog.
I think the reason for that was Tiana had just broken Facilier's voodo device and so, the magic had disappeared all together. However, it could still be possible for a princess to kiss Naveen and they could turn back human. Which I have a feeling Mama Odie already knew. :wink:
I forgot to take the voo doo device being broken into account. Sometimes I overlook things when I tune into a big picture.
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Post by ChrisLyne »

Finally got to see this at one of the advanced screenings yesterday. The free tickets had run out, but my girlfriend and I went on the chance there might be some spare seats and the supervisor very generously let us in once everyone else had arrived.

Fair enough it was a free advanced preview so I expected a full house, what I didn't expect was the mixed audience. It was mostly families, but there were also late teen couples and even a few adult couples. If the film can attract the same wide audience when it opens next month then it will do great!

I loved the film. It wasn't quite on the same level as the 90s films (but for pure nostalgia I don't think it could be) but it was easily my favorite film of the last year, probably since The Dark Knight. I had tears in my eyes just from seeing a classic Disney hand drawn animated musical fairy tale on the big screen, I felt like a big kid again.

Part of me still wonders what this would have been like of Menken and Slater had done the music, but I still loved the songs. I was a bit surprised there was no real love song between the Tiana and Naveen, I thought Facilier's song was great, but my favorites were probably the song sung by the trio as they dream of being human and "Dig a Little Deeper". Now I can finally listen to that CD that's been tempting me for the last week.

I must admit that whilst I don't like the delay between the US and UK release, I actually think they made a wise choice delaying this. With Avatar being a monster at the box office and Chipmunks aimed at the same audience then the audience would be split and hurt the box office. In February they'll have no real competition, plus if the audience at this screening was any example they'll probably also pull in couples over the Valentine's weekend (Enchanted did the same over Christmas the other year).

Can't wait to see it again!!
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Post by tlc38tlc38 »

Finally go to see it tonight! It, to me, is the BEST Disney movie I've seen since The Lion King! No joke. I seriously think it's that good! :) :) :) I can't wait for this to come out on Blu!
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Post by flora »

I hope I don't get flamed for saying this, but I disliked the Princess and the Frog. I'm a huge fan of the Disney Animated Classics up to the Lion King and I prefer 2D animation to 3D (I wasn't a fan of any of the Pixar films until Wall-E & Up although Finding Nemo was cute). I don't want to offend anyone who did like this film but as hard as I tried to like it, I just couldn't. Here are the problems I had with the movie:

1) I think the music is very forgettable. There didn't seem to be a stand out song that I could imagine singing over and over again as a child (ex. Part of Your World, Beauty and the Beast or Belle, A Whole New World). Not only that, but the soundtrack as whole was just blah. Even the movies I didn't particularly care for like Pocahontas, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, and Hercules have amazing music. I've listened to the soundtracks to these films more times than I've seen the movies. The forgettable soundtrack wasn't a big surprise to me since Randy Newman was doing the music and I haven't been particularly impressed with anything he's done in the past and also those who screened the film early on said the music wasn't great but I was still hoping that it would be.

2) I didn't like how they conveyed one of the major messages of the film which was to work hard to achieve your dreams and don't be lazy or wish upon a star. I felt like I was being beat over the head with it. They kept saying/singing it over and over. If they wanted that to be the message then I think it should have come naturally through the course of the film. No need to state it ad nauseum. One of my friends (another Disney fan) said she thought it felt more like an after school special because of the way they kept harping on the "work hard" theme and I see her point.

I prefer the message in the older films which basically is if you're a good person, good things will come to you in the end and if you're a bad person then bad things will come to you in the end. Naive, sure, but I think it fits with a fairy tale world. I don't watch Disney films, particularly the fairy tales, for realism, I want to escape to somewhere magical where it is possible for dreams to come true by wishing upon a star or be handed to you by a fairy godmother.

3) I didn't like how cynical Tiana was about love. It was all about the restaurant for her. I felt like she was too rough around the edges. Even Belle, who was a strong heroine, still believed in falling in love and had that softer side. I also wasn't a big fan of Naveen either. He annoyed me. I really couldn't see why either of them liked the other. They seemed incompatible and for it to happen in such a short span of time when Tiana wasn't so keen on falling in love in the first place just didn't ring true. I know many of the previous princesses fell in love at first sight but I felt that it fit with their characters and at least in a fairy tale world it's possible.

4) I wasn't a huge fan of them setting the movie in America or in a time period that really wasn't that long ago. While it has never bothered me for the non-princess films (ex. Lady and the Tramp) I really like my princess fairy tales to take place a long time ago in a land far far away (even if you call that land France like in Beauty and the Beast--it still had that far far away feeling). I hate the idea of an American princess, period. If Disney wanted to do a black princess, why not do an African princess with a film set in Africa? I know the Lion King was in Africa but that wasn't a princess film, it was an animal film.

5) I thought the side characters were very weak. They didn't seem as developed as the side characters from the earlier films. Some of them made me wonder why they were even there because they didn't really move the plot along like Louis. And the frog hunters were completely pointless. Charlotte was beyond annoying, and not in a good way. Not all characters (even the good guys) need to be 100% likable but there has to be some appeal.

6) I didn't like that the main characters were frogs for most of the film and the swamp was not attractive scenery. Overall, I felt the animation was poor. I wasn't awestruck by scenery the way I have been in a lot of the older Disney films.

I realize that this is just my opinion and that I can't say the film is objectively bad since many people liked it and these things obviously didn't bother everyone. This is why it didn't appeal to me and some others I've spoken to. My hope is that Disney doesn't get discouraged by the underwhelming box office numbers of this film and still continues with 2D animation because I still think it's better than 3D when done well.
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Post by Babaloo »

First of all (but I don't think I'm the person to do this since I'm pretty new too), but welcome to UD!

And I hope no one attacks you for this, sicne it is your personal opinion. A lot of the things you said are things people DID dislike from the movie, but I guess for most of us these flaws were minor enough for us not to dislike the movie (but that might be because we are Disney fans :P). I personally really liked the movie, but its your personal opinion and I for one wont get mad at you.

Just a quick question though... If you did go with a group of people, did they also dislike the movie (I like to hear what many people thought about the movie)?
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Post by Sky Syndrome »

flora wrote:the swamp was not attractive scenery.
I bet part of the reason the storywriters placed Naveen and Tiana there was to convey the idea that love can even blossom in unattractive places.

And about Tiana and Naveen being too different in personality to belong together. Likes repel. Opposites attract. :wink:
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Post by flora »

Babaloo wrote:First of all (but I don't think I'm the person to do this since I'm pretty new too), but welcome to UD!

And I hope no one attacks you for this, sicne it is your personal opinion. A lot of the things you said are things people DID dislike from the movie, but I guess for most of us these flaws were minor enough for us not to dislike the movie (but that might be because we are Disney fans :P). I personally really liked the movie, but its your personal opinion and I for one wont get mad at you.

Just a quick question though... If you did go with a group of people, did they also dislike the movie (I like to hear what many people thought about the movie)?
Thank you for the welcome. I saw the movie with my boyfriend who loves animation and loves to draw (he wanted to work as an animator for Disney when he was a child) but he's not a huge Disney fan like me. He was mainly disappointed in the quality of the animation and wasn't too impressed with the story (although it's not his kind of story anyways--he was there because he likes animation.)

My friend that I mentioned above went with her sister (both adults) and they didn't like it. Her sister was really bored but I didn't get a chance to talk to her about what she didn't like. But clearly a lot of people did like it and critics certainly did.
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Post by blackcauldron85 »

Farewell to ‘Tiana’s Showboat Jubilee’ – but is it Paris-bound?
http://thedailydisney.com/blog/2010/01/ ... ris-bound/
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Post by DisneyJedi »

blackcauldron85 wrote:Farewell to ‘Tiana’s Showboat Jubilee’ – but is it Paris-bound?
http://thedailydisney.com/blog/2010/01/ ... ris-bound/
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What?? I thought it was staying a little longer?! :(
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The Princess and the Frog

Post by Disney Duster »

jpanimation, no one thought that the Renaissance films had under developed villains! And no one ever complained the sidekicks were unfunny!

Also, Disney Toon Studios never got all that near to the level Disney's past theatrical films were. They got better but not really as close as you think that no one can tell a big difference. The Princess and the Frog isn't even quite up to that level, but is still better than the DTV animation and is distinctly good Disney theatrical animation...except for number of frames issues and objects that aren't animated so much as moved across the screen...
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Re: The Princess and the Frog

Post by pap64 »

Disney Duster wrote:jpanimation, no one thought that the Renaissance films had under developed villains! And no one ever complained the sidekicks were unfunny!

Also, Disney Toon Studios never got all that near to the level Disney's past theatrical films were. They got better but not really as close as you think that no one can tell a big difference. The Princess and the Frog isn't even quite up to that level, but is still better than the DTV animation and is distinctly good Disney theatrical animation...except for number of frames issues and objects that aren't animated so much as moved across the screen...
I think Disney animation will never reach the same heights as the Disney era films. Back in Walt's era they truly put a lot of thought into the animation process, so much so that they demanded the animators to study life and constantly make their work better.

I mean, Disney always regretted the use of the Xerox process for the many films that came after 101 Dalmatians, because the rough animation took away from the color and detail that was seen in films like Cinderella.

And even the fab four, which are always hailed as the best in terms of animation, had scenes in which you can clearly see that the animation was rushed. The Princess and the Frog is a tad better in that regard. While I can't see the film and pause it for reference I barely noticed any animation mistakes and sloppy job. Tiana as both human and a frog always remained on model, same with the other characters, even when their facial features were distorted for the same of comedy (like Louis).

What I am trying to say is that Disney animation has gone through many changes, some for the best, others for the worse, and its unfair to say that X movie will have or won't have the same quality as the Disney era films because they are made under different circumstances.
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The Princess and the Frog

Post by Disney Duster »

Pap, I was mainly saying the Disney Toon Studios work could never be so good you couldn't tell a good difference between it and Disney's theatrical animation. They got close, oh boy did they, but not that close.

I think it's really special to think animation could never reach the heights of how it was in Walt's days, but I believe that people could make animation that, while probably slightly different, could be deemed as excellent as that animation. But I do agree that the animation in Walt's films is the best to this day, yet Disney animation continued to become more impressive in some ways than the past until it was ended at the studios. I bet The Princess and the Frog would have looked smashingly beautiful and good had they not stopped doing theatrical animation for so long.
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Re: The Princess and the Frog

Post by jpanimation »

Disney Duster wrote:jpanimation, no one thought that the Renaissance films had under developed villains! And no one ever complained the sidekicks were unfunny!
Well, I just did. What I typed was misleading and was not really what I meant. I wasn't talking about other people but myself and I wasn't referring to all the films having the same problems but as a collective whole. To say not one of those films during the Renaissance had any of those problems would be ignorant (not saying you are). I was just making a point that the fantastic music helped people overlook many flaws of those films and that if The Princess and the Frog had that kind of music, maybe people would've been more forgiving. I can see now what I said misrepresented what I was thinking.
Disney Duster wrote:Also, Disney Toon Studios never got all that near to the level Disney's past theatrical films were. They got better but not really as close as you think that no one can tell a big difference. The Princess and the Frog isn't even quite up to that level, but is still better than the DTV animation and is distinctly good Disney theatrical animation...except for number of frames issues and objects that aren't animated so much as moved across the screen...
Well, I haven't seen them all but I saw Lilo & Stitch 2 and the animation looked really good (I could definitely see this being in theaters). Considering your a Disney fan, like myself, its easy for you to distinct the two but as for casual Disney viewing moms and kids, they won't know the difference. They were the subject of my remark as I know Disney fans know the difference.

I hope my remarks weren't causing any animosity and I hope that clears things up.
Disney Duster wrote:I bet The Princess and the Frog would have looked smashingly beautiful and good had they not stopped doing theatrical animation for so long.
Maybe I'm the only one but I thought it looked good. None of the off-model problems of the early Renaissance films and bad CG blending of the later films.
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