Cinderella Discussion
- Disney Duster
- Ultimate Collector's Edition
- Posts: 14013
- Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:02 am
- Gender: Male
- Location: America
Re: Cinderella Discussion
I hope you don't get laid off Divinity. I just said a prayer for you that you don't, and that if you do, you find a new job you like soon after. It is so cool you play piano. Smart people like you usually can.

- Thumper_93
- Anniversary Edition
- Posts: 1073
- Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:51 am
- Location: Phantom Manor
Re: Cinderella Discussion
Hi everybody! I just get the deluxe video edition of Cinderella released in 1995. I'm from Spain and I've been searching for the american version for a long time. The cover released in Spain was the same than the UK one. I feel much nostalgia for this cover but I feel that the american one is amazing, it captures all the spirit of the movie. I'll let you know when it arrives!

- Disney's Divinity
- Ultimate Collector's Edition
- Posts: 16239
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:26 am
- Gender: Male
Re: Cinderella Discussion
Thanks, Duster.
I was going to order the score book today, but put those those storybook replicas first sincw who knows how long they'll stay in stock. I'll get the score book next payday (and then Art of Hercules after that).
.
I was watching the new restoration for SW the other day (it wasn't as impressive as Cinderella's), and, watching it so soon after Cinderella, it made me notice other things that the films have in common. I already knew all three of the Walt Princess films have a formula they follow--always thought Cinderella was the best version of the formula--but even some little things stood out to me as copied, for example how similar the scene of Cinderella's dress being ripped is to SW running through the woods.* I'm trying to think if SB has a scene that has a similar look to it as those two, but I don't think so?
* I know TLM has many odes to those films (especially SW), too. The scene of Triton destroying the grotto does remind me of them. I already knew a lot of Ursula parallels the Queen in reverse (a beauty transforms into a hag v. a hag transforms into a beauty), but I couldn't help thinking how similar the climaxes are--the Hag celebrating SW's death versus Vanessa cackling that Ariel's lost (both moments with a thunderclap), plus all the animals coming to the rescue.

I was going to order the score book today, but put those those storybook replicas first sincw who knows how long they'll stay in stock. I'll get the score book next payday (and then Art of Hercules after that).

I was watching the new restoration for SW the other day (it wasn't as impressive as Cinderella's), and, watching it so soon after Cinderella, it made me notice other things that the films have in common. I already knew all three of the Walt Princess films have a formula they follow--always thought Cinderella was the best version of the formula--but even some little things stood out to me as copied, for example how similar the scene of Cinderella's dress being ripped is to SW running through the woods.* I'm trying to think if SB has a scene that has a similar look to it as those two, but I don't think so?
* I know TLM has many odes to those films (especially SW), too. The scene of Triton destroying the grotto does remind me of them. I already knew a lot of Ursula parallels the Queen in reverse (a beauty transforms into a hag v. a hag transforms into a beauty), but I couldn't help thinking how similar the climaxes are--the Hag celebrating SW's death versus Vanessa cackling that Ariel's lost (both moments with a thunderclap), plus all the animals coming to the rescue.

Listening to most often lately:
Taylor Swift ~ ~ "The Fate of Ophelia"
Taylor Swift ~ "Eldest Daughter"
Taylor Swift ~ "CANCELLED!"
- Disney Duster
- Ultimate Collector's Edition
- Posts: 14013
- Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:02 am
- Gender: Male
- Location: America
Re: Cinderella Discussion
So Thumper, the cover you have nostalgia for, is it the one of Cinderella in her ballgown sticking her glass-slippered foot out next to the palace stairs and the pumpkin coach? And the cover you think is better is her dancing with the Prince next to the pumpkin coach, with the castle in the distance and the Fairy Godmother above the title?
Divinity, you enjoy those journals, some of the best ever pieces of Disney merchandise ever made! And I hope you enjoy the full score book. Maybe one day I will get it just cause it's awesome. But I need to have disposable income for that. I see the similarities in the Walt princess films and Mermaid. I feel Snow White did the formula the best. I mean...Cinderella...half the film is cat and mouse! No one is trying to kill Cinderella! But I like someone saying Cinderella is better as much as I think it is objectively not so lol!
Divinity, you enjoy those journals, some of the best ever pieces of Disney merchandise ever made! And I hope you enjoy the full score book. Maybe one day I will get it just cause it's awesome. But I need to have disposable income for that. I see the similarities in the Walt princess films and Mermaid. I feel Snow White did the formula the best. I mean...Cinderella...half the film is cat and mouse! No one is trying to kill Cinderella! But I like someone saying Cinderella is better as much as I think it is objectively not so lol!

- Disney's Divinity
- Ultimate Collector's Edition
- Posts: 16239
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:26 am
- Gender: Male
Re: Cinderella Discussion
I only say that because I think Lucifer is more fun to watch than the Dwarfs, who are annoying. The three fairies are more fun time-wasters than the mice, but the rest of SB is more boring than the rest of Cinderella. And I've always thought Cinderella's Mary Blair design was prettier than SB, even if the latter's design received more time, commitment, detail, etc.

Listening to most often lately:
Taylor Swift ~ ~ "The Fate of Ophelia"
Taylor Swift ~ "Eldest Daughter"
Taylor Swift ~ "CANCELLED!"
- Lavendergolden
- Gold Classic Collection
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2024 7:10 pm
- Gender: Female
Re: Cinderella Discussion
Will you post the covers you're referring to?Thumper_93 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 6:20 am Hi everybody! I just get the deluxe video edition of Cinderella released in 1995. I'm from Spain and I've been searching for the american version for a long time. The cover released in Spain was the same than the UK one. I feel much nostalgia for this cover but I feel that the american one is amazing, it captures all the spirit of the movie. I'll let you know when it arrives!
I think it works for Cinderella. Cinderella is more a domestic battle between two women fighting over control of the household. Snow White is a royal story and the stakes are higher with murder. Basically the average person could relate to Cinderella's problems and even live her kind of life but very few people in the world will ever undergo what Snow White did. Lady Tremaine is not a murderer like the Queen is. Cinderella still has emotional stakes but it's more on a smaller scale until Cinderella becomes a candidate for queen of the kingdom which is also when the stepmother escalates. For a film like this, there isn't any action or physical disputes like the assassination attempt on Snow White so it makes sense that the action would be metaphorically handled by the animal proxies of Cinderella's family.Disney Duster wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2025 10:37 pm I see the similarities in the Walt princess films and Mermaid. I feel Snow White did the formula the best. I mean...Cinderella...half the film is cat and mouse! No one is trying to kill Cinderella! But I like someone saying Cinderella is better as much as I think it is objectively not so lol!
I don't think Cinderella and Snow White copy much from each other outside of both having a stepmother. Even there we have a major difference since we never see Snow White interact with the queen outside of her in disguise whereas Cinderella we see actively living with her abuser and being bullied. Very different dynamic. Sleeping Beauty is much more modeled after Snow White, which also makes sense because the source material is more similar. There are horror and gothic elements to both that Cinderella lacks and Cinderella has a much more modern setting.
Mermaid also feels closest to the Walt-era princess films because it was the last one to have a female villain. Starting with Beast, we have a male villain. Don Bluth's version had the enchantress/fairy as the villain so that might ironically enough have felt closer to Walt's princess films.

- Disney Duster
- Ultimate Collector's Edition
- Posts: 14013
- Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:02 am
- Gender: Male
- Location: America
Re: Cinderella Discussion
Hmm Divinity...Lucifer I like more than the Dwarfs, but the Dwarfs are so integral and connected to Snow White and her story. I like the fairies more than either, and they also connect themselves more to Aurora by doing everything for her. I think the only reason the animals in Cinderella feel less like we should spend time with them is because, well, they are animals, and they weren't that involved in the original tales. I only really find the scene with the kings boring in SB now that I'm older and appreciate the art in the forest. But I enjoy all the fairy scenes, whereas with the mice, I enjoy their "needed story scenes" (making the dress, rescuing Cinderella) less than the needed fairy story scenes and I find both boring and interesting story scenes in Cindy and SB so they are about equal to me even though Cindy's remain the favorite in my heart. Though I would say Cindy's are better on the emotional/cleverness front. I think the art in SB is objectively better, but the actual designs in Cinderella, we do agree, are prettier! Yay for that!
Hmm Lavendergolden...well, I have thought for a while, the reason we feel the mice fluff is fluff is because they are not human or humanoid, like the Dwarfs and fairies. Basically, what I said about them above.
I do like your idea of how the mice and cat are a metaphor for the battle between the heroine and villain, something the Walt Disney Family Museum site said.
It's just that in Ever After, there are battles between the heroine and villain, so a Cinderella film could and probably should have that.
What you said though, all of it, it's smart and very right, though! I also wish that, as long as Disney still made theirs, we could have seen Don Bluth's Beauty and the Beast!
Hmm Lavendergolden...well, I have thought for a while, the reason we feel the mice fluff is fluff is because they are not human or humanoid, like the Dwarfs and fairies. Basically, what I said about them above.
I do like your idea of how the mice and cat are a metaphor for the battle between the heroine and villain, something the Walt Disney Family Museum site said.
It's just that in Ever After, there are battles between the heroine and villain, so a Cinderella film could and probably should have that.
What you said though, all of it, it's smart and very right, though! I also wish that, as long as Disney still made theirs, we could have seen Don Bluth's Beauty and the Beast!

- Lavendergolden
- Gold Classic Collection
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2024 7:10 pm
- Gender: Female
Re: Cinderella Discussion
I agree with you on the kings in Sleeping Beauty. I find them very annoying, especially Hubert, and presumptuous on how he won't let Stefan have even one day with his daughter back. That skumps scene bores me the most and feels the most like filler. I love the fairies though and think they're some of Disney's best characters. Every scene with them is so funny and tbh, I think their scenes for Aurora's birthday are actually more entertaining than Rose singing with the animals and meeting Phillip. I do think the mice's scenes are necessary, especially in the second and final thirds of the film, because they're the ones who help Cinderella. If you take out those scenes, nobody makes Cinderella's pink dress. Nobody saves her from the attic. Maybe only that breakfast scene feels unnecessary but it introduces us to the dynamic between them and Lucifer. Fills in time while Cinderella is preparing the breakfast for her stepfamily. If we don't have the mice vs Lucifer scene there, then Anastasia doesn't end up with a mouse on her plate and we don't get that iconic first scene of Lady Tremaine berating Cinderella. So it all ends up flowing together. I don't remember how big a role the animals had in Cinderella's fairy tale but I do remember that the fairies aren't that prominent in the original Sleeping Beauty. They're only there for the christening scene and to put everyone to sleep after Rose pricks her finger. Since they didn't raise her, we don't really get all that much of them. I agree with you that Cinderella is more emotionally involved while Sleeping Beauty is more graphically beautiful.Disney Duster wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2025 11:15 pm Hmm Divinity...Lucifer I like more than the Dwarfs, but the Dwarfs are so integral and connected to Snow White and her story. I like the fairies more than either, and they also connect themselves more to Aurora by doing everything for her. I think the only reason the animals in Cinderella feel less like we should spend time with them is because, well, they are animals, and they weren't that involved in the original tales. I only really find the scene with the kings boring in SB now that I'm older and appreciate the art in the forest. But I enjoy all the fairy scenes, whereas with the mice, I enjoy their "needed story scenes" (making the dress, rescuing Cinderella) less than the needed fairy story scenes and I find both boring and interesting story scenes in Cindy and SB so they are about equal to me even though Cindy's remain the favorite in my heart. Though I would say Cindy's are better on the emotional/cleverness front. I think the art in SB is objectively better, but the actual designs in Cinderella, we do agree, are prettier! Yay for that!
Hmm Lavendergolden...well, I have thought for a while, the reason we feel the mice fluff is fluff is because they are not human or humanoid, like the Dwarfs and fairies. Basically, what I said about them above.
I do like your idea of how the mice and cat are a metaphor for the battle between the heroine and villain, something the Walt Disney Family Museum site said.
It's just that in Ever After, there are battles between the heroine and villain, so a Cinderella film could and probably should have that.
What you said though, all of it, it's smart and very right, though! I also wish that, as long as Disney still made theirs, we could have seen Don Bluth's Beauty and the Beast!
That's very insightful of you to note that maybe people find the mice less instrumental than the dwarfs and fairies because the latter two are humanoid and the mice are not. I also think some people dislike the mice for their chipmunk voices. I find them cute and very loyal so I love them but I can see why them not being human makes them feel more filler. Like how the live-action Cinderella basically cut out the roles of the mice. But then again, Maleficent also barely gave roles to the three good fairies. And even the new Snow White doesn't even mention the dwarfs in the title and seems more focused on Snow White vs the Queen and the rebellion. The dwarfs almost feel like they are there just because they were in the original.
I had no idea the Walt Disney Family Museum said that! Thanks for that neat fact.
Ever After was never a favorite movie of mine. I didn't like the idea of a Cinderella without magic and Drew Barrymore is not my idea of a classic beauty or period heroine. Way too contemporary feeling to pull off a timeless character like Cinderella. I do remember she fenced in that film but I don't remember her having physical fights or battles with her stepfamily. I feel that does not suit Cinderella to be a warrior or even just a fencer. Maybe after marrying the prince, I can see her being trained by him to fence for fun but not something she would know how to do or care about while living at home before marriage. She would not have time for starters. I don't think she needs to be an action heroine so I'm glad that Walt did not do anything like that. It would feel really out of place if she was pulling out a sword and fighting someone, like the palace guards or her stepfamily. I think if she did that I might understand why her stepfamily dislikes her so much lol.
Yes, I would not want to lose the Disney Beast but I would want to see Bluth's version. I liked blonde Beauty because Belle was classically blonde in the fairy tale until Disney made her brunette. I also prefer the 17th century historical setting for Beast. And in the original fairy tale, there is no male villain or suitor for Belle. The villain is the evil fairy who wants to marry the prince and curses him when he won't marry her. Which is also a staple of all the animal bridegroom fairy tales. Beauty and the Beast, The Singing, Springing Lark, and East of the Sun and West of the Moon were all fairy tales modeled on a prince cursed because he would not marry an evil witch or fairy. I don't remember if that was the case in Cupid and Psyche now, the original Beauty and the Beast. I think not because there it was Cupid's mother Aphrodite who was behind the curse I think because she hated Psyche for being so beautiful.
- Disney Duster
- Ultimate Collector's Edition
- Posts: 14013
- Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:02 am
- Gender: Male
- Location: America
Re: Cinderella Discussion
The Kings in Sleeping Beauty are a little annoying in that scene between them, and I agree Hubert was being unreasonable. I have always been more entertained by the fairies in the cottage over Aurora or Phillip in the forest.
You are completely right about the mice, in every thing you said. I just wish they reduced some of the time we spend on them (mostly the breakfast and getting dress items scenes), and wish we could replace that time with more of Cinderella, and her and the Prince.
Actually even though in the French Perrault version of Cinderella the mice just are there to be horses, it is true that the birds do a lot for Cinderella in the Grimm's version. The fairies, yes, don't do much in any of the original Sleeping Beauty tales either, so, it's about equal. Glad we agree on the Cinderella film's emotion.
Thanks for the comment about me being insightful! I like the mice, and their voices, I just find too much filler with them, like I said. I actually liked how they did the mice in the live-action. They even free her in the end in a realistic way.
Funny, I had a problem with a magicless story and less pretty heroine in Ever After as well. My shallow little kid self thought the blonde stepsister should have been Cinderella because I thought she more looked the part! Oh, but by battles, I meant Ever After's Cinderella argues with her stepmother and refuses to do things with her, plus she punches her stepsister. Her sword-fighting was taught to her as a child, before she did so much work, so it works for me. Now that I am older, I think a less pretty, and wonderfully acted and modern Drew Barrymore was perfect for the film. So, we just disagree there. I actually find Drew to have a beauty I now appreciate.
I don't think any of the original Beauty and the Beast tales, by either Beaumont or Villeneuve, said Beauty was blonde, but I never read the Villeneuve one. I do love 17th century stuff, which is more accurate to Villeneuve's story, but actually do love the 18th century more, and that was Beaumont's time. And love those 18th century huge skirts! But thanks for all the rest of the info! I do like the evil fairy villain idea, but Gaston was a great, new kind of villain, too.
You are completely right about the mice, in every thing you said. I just wish they reduced some of the time we spend on them (mostly the breakfast and getting dress items scenes), and wish we could replace that time with more of Cinderella, and her and the Prince.
Actually even though in the French Perrault version of Cinderella the mice just are there to be horses, it is true that the birds do a lot for Cinderella in the Grimm's version. The fairies, yes, don't do much in any of the original Sleeping Beauty tales either, so, it's about equal. Glad we agree on the Cinderella film's emotion.
Thanks for the comment about me being insightful! I like the mice, and their voices, I just find too much filler with them, like I said. I actually liked how they did the mice in the live-action. They even free her in the end in a realistic way.
Funny, I had a problem with a magicless story and less pretty heroine in Ever After as well. My shallow little kid self thought the blonde stepsister should have been Cinderella because I thought she more looked the part! Oh, but by battles, I meant Ever After's Cinderella argues with her stepmother and refuses to do things with her, plus she punches her stepsister. Her sword-fighting was taught to her as a child, before she did so much work, so it works for me. Now that I am older, I think a less pretty, and wonderfully acted and modern Drew Barrymore was perfect for the film. So, we just disagree there. I actually find Drew to have a beauty I now appreciate.
I don't think any of the original Beauty and the Beast tales, by either Beaumont or Villeneuve, said Beauty was blonde, but I never read the Villeneuve one. I do love 17th century stuff, which is more accurate to Villeneuve's story, but actually do love the 18th century more, and that was Beaumont's time. And love those 18th century huge skirts! But thanks for all the rest of the info! I do like the evil fairy villain idea, but Gaston was a great, new kind of villain, too.

- Lavendergolden
- Gold Classic Collection
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2024 7:10 pm
- Gender: Female
Re: Cinderella Discussion
I'm glad we agree on the Kings and also the fairies vs Aurora's scene in the forest.Disney Duster wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2025 11:07 pm The Kings in Sleeping Beauty are a little annoying in that scene between them, and I agree Hubert was being unreasonable. I have always been more entertained by the fairies in the cottage over Aurora or Phillip in the forest.
You are completely right about the mice, in every thing you said. I just wish they reduced some of the time we spend on them (mostly the breakfast and getting dress items scenes), and wish we could replace that time with more of Cinderella, and her and the Prince.
Actually even though in the French Perrault version of Cinderella the mice just are there to be horses, it is true that the birds do a lot for Cinderella in the Grimm's version. The fairies, yes, don't do much in any of the original Sleeping Beauty tales either, so, it's about equal. Glad we agree on the Cinderella film's emotion.
Thanks for the comment about me being insightful! I like the mice, and their voices, I just find too much filler with them, like I said. I actually liked how they did the mice in the live-action. They even free her in the end in a realistic way.
Funny, I had a problem with a magicless story and less pretty heroine in Ever After as well. My shallow little kid self thought the blonde stepsister should have been Cinderella because I thought she more looked the part! Oh, but by battles, I meant Ever After's Cinderella argues with her stepmother and refuses to do things with her, plus she punches her stepsister. Her sword-fighting was taught to her as a child, before she did so much work, so it works for me. Now that I am older, I think a less pretty, and wonderfully acted and modern Drew Barrymore was perfect for the film. So, we just disagree there. I actually find Drew to have a beauty I now appreciate.
I don't think any of the original Beauty and the Beast tales, by either Beaumont or Villeneuve, said Beauty was blonde, but I never read the Villeneuve one. I do love 17th century stuff, which is more accurate to Villeneuve's story, but actually do love the 18th century more, and that was Beaumont's time. And love those 18th century huge skirts! But thanks for all the rest of the info! I do like the evil fairy villain idea, but Gaston was a great, new kind of villain, too.
I can see what you mean about reducing the time on the breakfast scene and the mice getting Cinderella's dress items. Do you think Cinderella and the prince should have met before the ball like in the live-action? I know some storybooks feature her meeting him on horseback without knowing he's the prince like the Kinuko Y. Craft book if you are familiar with that. Or would you prefer they only meet at the ball and have more scenes together there?

It's been a while since I read the Perrault and Grimm versions but now that you've mentioned it, I do remember that the birds have more of a role in the Grimm version. Also that there is no fairy godmother but instead a wishing tree that sprouted from the grave of Cinderella's mother, if I'm correct. I personally like that the lizards were removed from the fairy tale in the Disney version. I don't like lizards lol.
I actually feel the mice were not present enough in the remake. I can see why they didn't have a big role because it's harder to take seriously CGI mice in a live action world but it also made the bond between them and Cinderella less notable. I think the animals should have had more screentime but this is also an issue in other remakes like Iago in the Aladdin one who is basically just a regular parrot.
Actually I see what you mean by the stepsister being prettier than Cinderella in Ever After. Some people also say this about Holliday Grainger being prettier than Lily James. I see what you mean about battles now that Cinderella has arguments with her stepmother. I don't remember her punching her stepsister but I feel that would be hard to swallow in the Disney movie, even if the stepsisters might deserve that treatment. Physical violence makes Cinderella less sympathetic and ironically makes her the abusive one. While she doesn't have any shoutdowns with her stepmother in the Disney movie, I do think that she holds her own especially when she fights for her right to go to the ball. So while not a fight or arguing, she handles it like a lady. I remember Ever After's Cinderella learning about swordfighting as a child now that you've mentioned it. I think it worked in that version because I vaguely remember that Cinderella was more a tomboy, but Disney's Cinderella is definitely not one. And I think a 50s heroine doing swordfighting wouldn't make much sense outside of a pirates movie. I have seen Drew in a lot of her teen movies from the 90s, with her short spiky hair and modern attitude, so for me Drew is closer to that than being a fairy tale heroine. I just see that same teenage movie Drew but wearing a long wig and medieval dress, but the attitude and sensibility has not changed. I do think she looks prettier with long hair in Ever After than she did in her teen movies though, where she often dressed very trashy.
I don't think Beauty was explicitly labeled a blonde in either version you mentioned, but classically Beauty was portrayed as a blonde usually. The same way Sleeping Beauty was usually portrayed as a brunette in paintings and illustrations before Disney's version took over the public image of her, even though Sleeping Beauty is also not given an explicit hair color in her fairy tale (Grimm or Perrault). For that matter, I think even Rapunzel's hair color is not explicitly called blonde (I would need to reread to be sure) but classically she's always been associated as a blonde. If Disney had made her a redhead for example, I feel now we'd all associate her as being a redhead the way we associate Ariel as a redhead, Aurora as a blonde, and Belle as a brunette. Villeneuve version is very long. Actually the second half after the Beast becomes a prince again I think is even longer than the first half. It's an interesting read to see all the fairy politics and backstories of these interconnected characters but also unnecessary. Makes sense that most retellings remove all that. Beauty's real father is a human king who married a fairy so Belle was a princess and half-human, half-fairy. Belle's father (the king) is the brother of the prince's mother (the queen). Belle's fairy mother has an aunt who is the good fairy and both hate the evil fairy who grew up as the prince's godmother. She wanted to marry the prince but she was old and ugly so his mother the queen said no. This is why the evil fairy curses the prince to become a beast. Then she meets the queen's brother, the king and tries to marry him instead, since this is after Belle's mother (the fairy) has been exposed by the evil fairy as having been married to a human. I think this was against fairy law so Belle's mother is imprisoned. The evil fairy takes advantage of this to try and make the king fall in love with her but he doesn't, so she curses his daughter Belle to fall in love with a beast. Belle's fairy aunt (her mother's sister) is watching all of this and decides to hide Belle from the evil fairy by giving her to the merchant who just lost a baby. He has 6 sons and 5 daughters so Belle becomes his 6th daughter. Then Belle's aunt goes to the prince (now a Beast) and his mother and promises that she has a plan to help break the curse on him. So everything that happens in the original fairy tale is because Belle's fairy aunt is orchestrating events to stop the evil fairy's curse. If that sounds look and complicated, you can see why it's all ignored but it does mean that technically Belle was originally a secret princess like Aurora, Anastasia, and Rapunzel in Disney. But since Beauty and the Beast is an animal bridegroom story with the oldest version being Cupid and Psyche, it must be noted that in all those versions, the Beauty character is usually just a peasant girl who falls in love with a prince or god. So I think it's truer to the animal bridegroom template for Belle to not be a princess from birth as only Villeneuve does that.
Since the most famous version of Beauty and the Beast is the Beaumont version, it makes sense that the Disney version was set in the 18th century. I used to not care much for Gaston because he wasn't magical and didn't seem all that evil but now growing up, I'm realizing how many guys are really like him so he feels more real to me. Maybe too real lol.
- Disney Duster
- Ultimate Collector's Edition
- Posts: 14013
- Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:02 am
- Gender: Male
- Location: America
Re: Cinderella Discussion
Yes, I think there are three things the Walt Cinderella film should have done, had it been possible: we see the scene of the Prince hunting a deer, which it then turns out is the Prince playing with one of his (non-talking) animal friends. This makes the Prince look like a good match for Cinderella. Then at the ball, they have a much better, longer, prettier love song where we somehow see even further that they are a good match. Finally, we see the Maurice Rapf (story artist in Walt's time) idea for Cinderella refusing to chores unless her stepfamily helps her the morning after the ball. Then we hear a knock on the door and getting the news of the slipper coming that makes Cinderella hum on her way to her room and the rest happens like natural. With less mice and all this happening, it would make a closer to perfect Cinderella.
By the way, the K. Y. Craft Cinderella is the second best Cinderella book ever made, to me (the 2012 Disney Big Golden Book is the top best for me), but I would give it the top prize because of how much work and beauty was put into it, plus it is more accurate to the time the Perrault tale was written. It is simply an unparalleled, amazing book.
Yes, you are correct about the Grimm story and a wishing tree. I do not mind the Perrault lizards. I like them in the Disney remake.
We feel differently on the mice in the remake, but hey. I understand your opinion.
Oh, whoops, I should have made it clear!: I like Danielle doing the fighting in Ever After, but I don't want it for any Disney Cinderella, except maybe verbal fighting! And I do agree Walt's Cinderella tried to stand her ground with her stepmother, but though she acted like a lady, she should have demanded help with the work later, like I said above.
I like Drew's attitude and sensibility for Ever After. Doesn't feel out of place to me. I could see a woman like her living in the Renaissance.
I get you on hair color. I also agree about the Villeneuve unnecessary and royal Belle stuff, and thank you for telling me all that Villeneuve story!
Yup, you got it on the 18th century setting, and ha, yeah Gaston is so real.
I also extremely disagree that Anastasia counts as Disney! I will always feel that way! I don't count Merida either. I will fight for this! Lol
By the way, the K. Y. Craft Cinderella is the second best Cinderella book ever made, to me (the 2012 Disney Big Golden Book is the top best for me), but I would give it the top prize because of how much work and beauty was put into it, plus it is more accurate to the time the Perrault tale was written. It is simply an unparalleled, amazing book.
Yes, you are correct about the Grimm story and a wishing tree. I do not mind the Perrault lizards. I like them in the Disney remake.
We feel differently on the mice in the remake, but hey. I understand your opinion.
Oh, whoops, I should have made it clear!: I like Danielle doing the fighting in Ever After, but I don't want it for any Disney Cinderella, except maybe verbal fighting! And I do agree Walt's Cinderella tried to stand her ground with her stepmother, but though she acted like a lady, she should have demanded help with the work later, like I said above.
I like Drew's attitude and sensibility for Ever After. Doesn't feel out of place to me. I could see a woman like her living in the Renaissance.
I get you on hair color. I also agree about the Villeneuve unnecessary and royal Belle stuff, and thank you for telling me all that Villeneuve story!
Yup, you got it on the 18th century setting, and ha, yeah Gaston is so real.
I also extremely disagree that Anastasia counts as Disney! I will always feel that way! I don't count Merida either. I will fight for this! Lol

- Lavendergolden
- Gold Classic Collection
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2024 7:10 pm
- Gender: Female
Re: Cinderella Discussion
The deleted scene of the prince hunting his animal friend always felt very cartoony to me. I wouldn't mind it in the final movie if it was less cartoony in execution. It reminds me of those early Snow White scenes where the prince starts doing backflips out of joy that Snow White loves him. Doesn't fit the more grown-up tone of the prince in the final film. Do you not like So This is Love? That's one of my favorite Disney songs and I think so dreamy in execution. I wouldn't mind another song or sequence but I wouldn't want So This is Love gone lol. Maybe an exchange with the two after the curtains drop, blocking out Lady Tremaine, but before the song starts so we can see the couple interact before the duet begins. Hmmm, I didn't know Cinderella was going to refuse to do chores unless her stepfamily helped her. I have mixed feelings on that. I guess even though the ball was only a one night event, it changed Cinderella so strongly that it could be said to leave the impact that she won't tolerate her abuse anymore. Maybe feminists would have applauded Cinderella more if they felt that she used that one night as inspiration to become stronger, even before learning the prince is in love with her. But at the same time, I view that one night as a magical blessing for Cinderella and a gift from higher powers. It's a treasure for her memories for the rest of her life, or so she thinks at that point, not knowing something better is coming. I feel she wouldn't try and make a scene the next day to taint that memory as she would still be in the ecstasy of that night.Disney Duster wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 11:35 pm Yes, I think there are three things the Walt Cinderella film should have done, had it been possible: we see the scene of the Prince hunting a deer, which it then turns out is the Prince playing with one of his (non-talking) animal friends. This makes the Prince look like a good match for Cinderella. Then at the ball, they have a much better, longer, prettier love song where we somehow see even further that they are a good match. Finally, we see the Maurice Rapf (story artist in Walt's time) idea for Cinderella refusing to chores unless her stepfamily helps her the morning after the ball. Then we hear a knock on the door and getting the news of the slipper coming that makes Cinderella hum on her way to her room and the rest happens like natural. With less mice and all this happening, it would make a closer to perfect Cinderella.
By the way, the K. Y. Craft Cinderella is the second best Cinderella book ever made, to me (the 2012 Disney Big Golden Book is the top best for me), but I would give it the top prize because of how much work and beauty was put into it, plus it is more accurate to the time the Perrault tale was written. It is simply an unparalleled, amazing book.
Yes, you are correct about the Grimm story and a wishing tree. I do not mind the Perrault lizards. I like them in the Disney remake.
We feel differently on the mice in the remake, but hey. I understand your opinion.
Oh, whoops, I should have made it clear!: I like Danielle doing the fighting in Ever After, but I don't want it for any Disney Cinderella, except maybe verbal fighting! And I do agree Walt's Cinderella tried to stand her ground with her stepmother, but though she acted like a lady, she should have demanded help with the work later, like I said above.
I like Drew's attitude and sensibility for Ever After. Doesn't feel out of place to me. I could see a woman like her living in the Renaissance.
I get you on hair color. I also agree about the Villeneuve unnecessary and royal Belle stuff, and thank you for telling me all that Villeneuve story!
Yup, you got it on the 18th century setting, and ha, yeah Gaston is so real.
I also extremely disagree that Anastasia counts as Disney! I will always feel that way! I don't count Merida either. I will fight for this! Lol
Yes, it's a gorgeous book and deserves top prize. I wish that Kinuko Y. Craft made more since I think her last one was Beauty and the Beast. You really love the 2012 Golden Book for Cinderella!
I didn't mind the lizards in the remake either. I'm not sure I'd want to see them animated lol because then they'd be constant companions of Cinderella and we had enough animals. And lizards don't fit the very dreamlike and romantic setting of Disney's Cinderella the way birds, mice, a dog and horse do.
Yes, I respect your opinion about liking the decreased presence of the mice in the remake.
I feel Cinderella, as an abuse victim, would not demand help with her chores from her stepfamily because 1) she already knows the answer to that and 2) it's probably gotten her in trouble in the past. Usually abuse victims remain quiet and take the heaps of abuse because it's safer that way than to make trouble. So making a scene by acting out or demanding change can be brave but also can lead to some very disastrous results. I feel Cinderella would still be in ecstasy of the night before and that would keep her going for some time that she wouldn't be thinking of anything else or changing the status quo at home into something that could lead to more trouble for her. She'd be glowing and not want to do anything to remove that glow.
I can see lots of empowered women in the Renaissance and throughout history in general. I think with Drew, it's just she comes across as such a 21st century woman that she pulls me out of the movie. There's a reason she doesn't do historical dramas or period films outside of Ever After. Some actors have that old world or timeless quality to them and some don't. Like Anjelica Huston fits very well as a Baroness in that time period. But I'm glad you don't have that issue with Drew and you prefer the movie for having her in it now.
You're welcome!
Lol, to me there are certain movies that feel Disney-like even if they aren't Disney. Like they have that magical feeling or whimsy. In fact, I feel the Disney movies of today lack that feeling even if they have the Disney logo on top whereas some non-Disney animated movies are closer in tone to something Disney should make or would have made in their glory days. So Anastasia for me fits the DP line because it has all the tropes you would expect from a Disney musical or princess film. And I think it feels more Disney than the actual Disney movie of that year Hercules, which was very weak imo and just felt like Superman and Rocky. In fact, Anastasia feels more like a princess movie than most of the new princess movies Disney makes now. As for Brave, I agree with you that I don't like her as a DP but not because she's Pixar. But because she doesn't sing, doesn't have a love interest, isn't beautiful, etc. Even her castle and setting feel more realistic and harsh than fairy tale like and sumptuous. But if you read my posts in the latest page of the Toy Story 5 thread, I talk about how arranged marriage is something that's part of every Disney Princess movie or was in the old days anyway. And how Brave feels more like a DP movie than any of the ones before or after because it followed that arranged marriage template. So while I don't like Merida as a DP, I do feel she's a better choice than some of the other new DPs.
- Disney's Divinity
- Ultimate Collector's Edition
- Posts: 16239
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:26 am
- Gender: Male
Re: Cinderella Discussion
Thanks, Duster.Disney Duster wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2024 10:11 pm I hope you don't get laid off Divinity. I just said a prayer for you that you don't, and that if you do, you find a new job you like soon after. It is so cool you play piano. Smart people like you usually can.
I ordered the scorebook the other day. I'll try to take pictures if there's anything interesting inside (in the opening blurbs and all that).


Listening to most often lately:
Taylor Swift ~ ~ "The Fate of Ophelia"
Taylor Swift ~ "Eldest Daughter"
Taylor Swift ~ "CANCELLED!"
- Disney Duster
- Ultimate Collector's Edition
- Posts: 14013
- Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:02 am
- Gender: Male
- Location: America
Re: Cinderella Discussion
Ok, Lavendergolden, so a less cartoony version of the deer friend scene, I want that in.
I do like the song of "So This is Love", and I absolutely LOVE the visual sequence. But, to make the movie better, I would love, even more, for a longer and prettier melodic song that somehow shows the leads have a great chemistry and relationship. Like lyrics that show how their personalities fit. And maybe have a bit of talking after the song to further that.
I understand your position on how Cinderella feels after the ball, but we disagree on whether that scene of her rebelling against her stepfamily should be there or not. I read everything you said, and it's valid, I just still really want that scene in. I would also add another part of that scene that Rapf also wrote, that the stepmother intends to punish Cinderella after the rebelling. Then I would add my own idea about the knock at the door with a neighbor telling them about the slipper search, and then, the rest as the movie already goes. The only thing is, it may make Cinderella less sympathetic when she gets locked up because she was so strong before, but in my head, I can think of how it might still work.
Yes, I love the Cinderella 2012 Golden Book so much! Also love the 2016 "Story of" book, it just needs the damn dancing scene!
I completely agree with you on the lizards.
Ok, so we disagree on Drew in Ever After, but agree on Huston.
I get how you feel about non-Disney movies feeling Disney. I still disagree any non-Disney film or character can be Disney though.
What movies before and after Brave did you feel were not as Disney Princessy?
EDIT: Some thing I forgot to mention:
Holiday Grainger is prettier than Lily James in my eyes.
Drizella’s at home dress looked brown yellow to me then green yellow until the very last time we see it when it is brown yellow again.
Drizella is called Javotte in France, and the elder stepsister in the Perrault Cinderella was named Javotte and wore a yellow dress as well! But Anastasia tries the slipper first, implying she is older!
Divinity, thanks, I hope there are some great pics inside. I also hope you get that Hercules book, I forgot you super love Hercules. He's gotta be the cutest Disney guy!
I do like the song of "So This is Love", and I absolutely LOVE the visual sequence. But, to make the movie better, I would love, even more, for a longer and prettier melodic song that somehow shows the leads have a great chemistry and relationship. Like lyrics that show how their personalities fit. And maybe have a bit of talking after the song to further that.
I understand your position on how Cinderella feels after the ball, but we disagree on whether that scene of her rebelling against her stepfamily should be there or not. I read everything you said, and it's valid, I just still really want that scene in. I would also add another part of that scene that Rapf also wrote, that the stepmother intends to punish Cinderella after the rebelling. Then I would add my own idea about the knock at the door with a neighbor telling them about the slipper search, and then, the rest as the movie already goes. The only thing is, it may make Cinderella less sympathetic when she gets locked up because she was so strong before, but in my head, I can think of how it might still work.
Yes, I love the Cinderella 2012 Golden Book so much! Also love the 2016 "Story of" book, it just needs the damn dancing scene!
I completely agree with you on the lizards.
Ok, so we disagree on Drew in Ever After, but agree on Huston.
I get how you feel about non-Disney movies feeling Disney. I still disagree any non-Disney film or character can be Disney though.
What movies before and after Brave did you feel were not as Disney Princessy?
EDIT: Some thing I forgot to mention:
Holiday Grainger is prettier than Lily James in my eyes.
Drizella’s at home dress looked brown yellow to me then green yellow until the very last time we see it when it is brown yellow again.
Drizella is called Javotte in France, and the elder stepsister in the Perrault Cinderella was named Javotte and wore a yellow dress as well! But Anastasia tries the slipper first, implying she is older!
Divinity, thanks, I hope there are some great pics inside. I also hope you get that Hercules book, I forgot you super love Hercules. He's gotta be the cutest Disney guy!

- Sotiris
- Ultimate Collector's Edition
- Posts: 21069
- Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:06 am
- Gender: Male
- Location: Fantasyland
Re: Cinderella Discussion
The logo for the film's 75th anniversary.

Source: https://wdwnt.com/2025/01/new-cinderell ... llectible/

Source: https://x.com/almanaquedisney/status/18 ... 9568554170

Source: https://www.instagram.com/stories/mmdis ... 974697458/

Source: https://wdwnt.com/2025/01/new-cinderell ... llectible/

Source: https://x.com/almanaquedisney/status/18 ... 9568554170

Source: https://www.instagram.com/stories/mmdis ... 974697458/
- Thumper_93
- Anniversary Edition
- Posts: 1073
- Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:51 am
- Location: Phantom Manor
Re: Cinderella Discussion
I can't wait to see new pics with best quality from the LE doll. All the things that has been leaked look really nice. They are making a great collection for the anniversary!

- UmbrellaFish
- Signature Collection
- Posts: 5717
- Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:09 pm
- Gender: Male (He/Him)
Re: Cinderella Discussion
I think the branding is really pretty for the anniversary.
- Lavendergolden
- Gold Classic Collection
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2024 7:10 pm
- Gender: Female
Re: Cinderella Discussion
Oh I see what you mean about what you want in terms of a love song. I think the problem is that what you're asking for didn't really exist in the 50s. Look at Disney love songs from this time period (Once Upon a Dream, Bella Notte) or even non-Disney movies long the Fred and Ginger romantic songs. They weren't about character personalities. In fact, they were designed to be as generalized as possible so that they could become radio hits and have a life outside of a movie. The more personality based romantic songs come from the 90s like Something There. I think the dreamy atmosphere of Cinderella works in part because we don't really see the couple interact except through a song.Disney Duster wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2025 10:55 pm Ok, Lavendergolden, so a less cartoony version of the deer friend scene, I want that in.
I do like the song of "So This is Love", and I absolutely LOVE the visual sequence. But, to make the movie better, I would love, even more, for a longer and prettier melodic song that somehow shows the leads have a great chemistry and relationship. Like lyrics that show how their personalities fit. And maybe have a bit of talking after the song to further that.
I understand your position on how Cinderella feels after the ball, but we disagree on whether that scene of her rebelling against her stepfamily should be there or not. I read everything you said, and it's valid, I just still really want that scene in. I would also add another part of that scene that Rapf also wrote, that the stepmother intends to punish Cinderella after the rebelling. Then I would add my own idea about the knock at the door with a neighbor telling them about the slipper search, and then, the rest as the movie already goes. The only thing is, it may make Cinderella less sympathetic when she gets locked up because she was so strong before, but in my head, I can think of how it might still work.
Yes, I love the Cinderella 2012 Golden Book so much! Also love the 2016 "Story of" book, it just needs the damn dancing scene!
I completely agree with you on the lizards.
Ok, so we disagree on Drew in Ever After, but agree on Huston.
I get how you feel about non-Disney movies feeling Disney. I still disagree any non-Disney film or character can be Disney though.
What movies before and after Brave did you feel were not as Disney Princessy?
EDIT: Some thing I forgot to mention:
Holiday Grainger is prettier than Lily James in my eyes.
Drizella’s at home dress looked brown yellow to me then green yellow until the very last time we see it when it is brown yellow again.
Drizella is called Javotte in France, and the elder stepsister in the Perrault Cinderella was named Javotte and wore a yellow dress as well! But Anastasia tries the slipper first, implying she is older!
Thanks for explaining your full idea in detail to me now. I understand it better and can see what you like about it. Wasn't Walt's issue with this that he felt it made Cinderella less sympathetic if she openly rebelled against her stepfamily?
Tbh I think we're at the point where most Disney things don't feel Disney at all anymore. Whether it's the remakes or the new movies. They feel so devoid of magic or soul and just have a Disney logo on because Disney is obsessed with selling out its IPs.
Umm, I think Tangled felt like a fairy tale film but not so much a princess film because it lacked an emphasis on marriage. I think Frog completely failed because it lacks arranged marriage as the storyline and was too modern and cultural appropriation of German culture. Frozen had a little bit about marriage but didn't stick to the source material and felt like it was trying too hard to overturn Disney tropes to seem empowered (evil Prince Charming, evil queen is really the heroine, love at first sight is bad, etc.) And everything since Frozen doesn't feature love or marriage at all like Moana or Wish. So really just Brave has the classic princess storyline of marriage while Tangled and to a lesser extent Frozen, still feel like fairy tale films because they have that atmosphere. But Tangled is too generic in its atmosphere and I think Frozen is too visually boring. Disney has the same problem the Barbie movies have now since Barbie also hasn't made princess films in ages.
Yes, I agree with you about Holliday Grainger. She's very lovely whereas Lily James had good acting but was very plain. In fact, I think her nose is too prominent and her eyebrows too thick. I didn't have a problem with her having brown eyes though.
Thanks for sharing what you think Drizella's dress color looks like from scene to scene. I think that's how I felt about it as well. Not very consistent sadly.
I didn't know her name was Javotte in the French version. How nice that she wore yellow in that because it matches up nicely with the Disney version. Yellow was also her main color in the remake since Lady Tremaine took green instead. So I've always been confused about which stepsister is older in Disney. You say Anastasia is older because she put on the glass slipper first but I've heard people say that Drizella is eldest because at the ball, her name is announced before Anastasia's.
BTW, when Cinderella and the prince are about to kiss at the end of So This is Love, before the clock strikes midnight, do they actually kiss? Like do their lips touch or do they just almost kiss and not actually make contact? I've always been confused about that as well. Ariel/Eric, Aladdin/Jasmine, and Anastasia/Dimitri have almost kisses as well so I don't know if Cinderella really started this trend or not.
-
- Collector's Edition
- Posts: 2039
- Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:58 am
- Gender: Male
- Location: New Jersey but soon to be Florida!
Re: Cinderella Discussion
I recall having sculptures of the 2 stepsisters and the labels on the boxes said Anastasia/Anastasie and Drizella/Javotte.
In French une javotte means a woman who gossips or bad mouths others. That’s certainly Drizella!
In French une javotte means a woman who gossips or bad mouths others. That’s certainly Drizella!
- Lavendergolden
- Gold Classic Collection
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2024 7:10 pm
- Gender: Female
Re: Cinderella Discussion
I wonder if that's her name in the French dub as well. How neat to learn that's her French name, at least in the fairy tale. That means that even in terms of names, Anastasia is more sympathetic than Drizella. Which I always thought was a rather ugly and weird name since I never heard anyone have it before. It seemed like a riff on Drusilla, who with her Ancient Roman ties, would not be more sympathetic.carolinakid wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2025 5:57 pm I recall having sculptures of the 2 stepsisters and the labels on the boxes said Anastasia/Anastasie and Drizella/Javotte.
In French une javotte means a woman who gossips or bad mouths others. That’s certainly Drizella!