Beauty and the Beast: Diamond Edition (October 5th!)

[pap64]

Bite your tongue, pap64! The "Beauty and the Beast" colour fiasco will NEVER be over...

Hence why I put the song that never ends in there .

In fact, I predict that when the next home release changes the color we will have ANOTHER issue to bitch about.

[KubrickFan]

Okay, for something serious and on-topic now: the colors.

Yes, my dear Milk Bud-lovers, the colors. You don't like to discuss the colors? Please, go play outside. Nobody's forcing you to read this thread or reply to it.

I've watched the Celine Dion music video, as I mentioned before, and today, I've also watched the theatrical trailer. Both have the dark colors. The dvd have the bright colors. Can we change that by discussing this for 30 more pages? No. Do I lose any sleep over it? No. But can we please acknowledge that I'm not blind for seeing an enormous differcne --and that, therefore, Disney must have screwed up. Is that acceptable?

Because there is a difference, doesn't mean they screwed up. Check the 'Can You See the Love Tonight' video on The Lion King. The pieces of the movie that are seen there look different from the movie on DVD as well. It just means that they used the movie on film for those instances.

[Matt]

Is there a coupon for the 2-Disc DVD coming out this Tuesday?

[Goliath]

Bite your tongue, pap64! The "Beauty and the Beast" colour fiasco will NEVER be over...

Like I said before: if this irritates you: don't read it! Go to another thread that *does* interest you.

I think we all know they screwed up the colors, its just a matter of when. if we are to believe their claim, they screwed them up from the get go, thats why the trailers, music videos, everything else from the 90s was the darker version of the colors. no one except those involved with the production know what they saw back in the day on their monitors but them.

But that would mean they screwed up on the theatrical version, *and* the VHS *and* the laserdisc! And they got it wrong in the music videos and trailers, like you said. Today, I watched the bonus feature 'Camera test' and in the introduction a finished clip is shown with the darker, correct colors. One more piece of 'evidence'. So what is more realistic? Disney screwing up all those releases for more than a decade... or fucking up on the 2002 release, when they presented the film in a new format (IMAX)?

On YouTube, some people posted the theory that Disney deliberately made the colors brighter on the 2002 DVD to make it more appealing to the kiddies (because the original film was too dark). Anyone think that's plausible?

[Prince Edward]

Bite your tongue, pap64! The "Beauty and the Beast" colour fiasco will NEVER be over...

Like I said before: if this irritates you: don't read it! Go to another thread that *does* interest you.

I think we all know they screwed up the colors, its just a matter of when. if we are to believe their claim, they screwed them up from the get go, thats why the trailers, music videos, everything else from the 90s was the darker version of the colors. no one except those involved with the production know what they saw back in the day on their monitors but them.

But that would mean they screwed up on the theatrical version, *and* the VHS *and* the laserdisc! And they got it wrong in the music videos and trailers, like you said. Today, I watched the bonus feature 'Camera test' and in the introduction a finished clip is shown with the darker, correct colors. One more piece of 'evidence'. So what is more realistic? Disney screwing up all those releases for more than a decade... or fucking up on the 2002 release, when they presented the film in a new format (IMAX)?

On YouTube, some people posted the theory that Disney deliberately made the colors brighter on the 2002 DVD to make it more appealing to the kiddies (because the original film was too dark). Anyone think that's plausible?

I totally agree with you and I could not have said it better myself (in fact you have said it much better than I could;) And I do believe that Disney has changed the colors to appeal to what they think children will like, to me that seems pretty obvious.

It's to bad one can not state an opinion about the colors of the movie in a Beauty and the Beast thread on a Disney-fan forum without beeing meet with Milk buds. I do not feel any need to ridicule the people that believe that the movie has always had the right colors.

[UmbrellaFish]

On YouTube, some people posted the theory that Disney deliberately made the colors brighter on the 2002 DVD to make it more appealing to the kiddies (because the original film was too dark). Anyone think that's plausible?

But why would they do that?

By the time the "kiddies" bought the DVD, would it really matter if the colors were brighter? They've already bought it, they've already given Disney their money. What would be the purpose of brightening the movie to appeal to children before they purchase it? I could understand, maybe, sprucing up the colors a bit for commercials, but why would they do that to a whole film? Not to mention, I'm sure Disney wasn't too worried about BATB flying off the shelves.

And, if Disney had brightened the colors simply to appeal to children, why would they have picked cover art (which the children would have seen before they saw the brightened film) with even less color than 1990s video release? A vividly colored case seems to be more of an incentive to buy a DVD or BD than the colors inside. For example, take a look at the new Black Cauldron release. Nothing in the film looks quite as "rainbow-y" as that cover.

Why the colors were changed, I don't pretend to know, but I don't think it was as simple as to market to children.

[Goliath]

Well, I never said I *believed* that. I just said it was a theory.

[UmbrellaFish]

Well, I never said I *believed* that. I just said it was a theory.

I wasn't specifically addressing you or anyone, I just think that it is the silliest theory out there, and I went on a bit of a rant.

[Elladorine]

Wow. This is exactly why I can't discuss the colors anymore. I repeat myself over and over, only to see some completely ignore what I've tried to address.

Once again, does anyone know how extremely difficult it is to print out digitally-generated images onto physical media and match the colors correctly? Any experts wanna raise their hands? Most likely the difficulties behind the original colors with the film was due to the differences between RGB (additive) and CMYK (subtractive) colors.

Computer monitors emit light, while printed media absorbs and reflects light. RGB and CMYK both have their limits in the visual spectrum, but their ranges are not the same. Artwork produced on a monitor is RGB and must be converted to CMYK at the printing stage, and will most likely not match in color due to their differing limitations.

The original theatrical release of Beauty and the Beast had to be transferred to physical media on a relatively new system with little time to spare. And once it was printed on film, subsequent transfers relied on that physical media with the different set of limitations than seen on the original monitors. The current stance is that now they are able to go back to the CAPS files and recreate the colors as originally seen on their monitors, before they became filtered and compromised by a rushed film transfer.

People can argue all they like over which version they prefer, I really have no beef with that. But I think it's disrespectful to claim there's some kind of conspiracy going on. If that were the case, Disney would be finding excuses to alter all their films into the so-called Dora the Explorer colors, from Snow White to Peter Pan to The Little Mermaid.

Don't worry, I'm done repeating myself since I've had enough of this thread. I'm sorry that I went off topic, but I'm also sorry that some of you don't have a sense of humor.

[pap64]

OK, EVERYONE'S forgetting one thing... Beauty and the Beast wasn't the first film done on CAPS. That honor goes to The Rescuers Down Under.

Let's take a look at the colors on THAT one!

Here is the original trailer from 1990:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVrjCyPhoxE

Now this is a clip from the Gold Collection DVD:
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/lItsFbelsDU?fs ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/lItsFbelsDU?fs ... 2=0x999999" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Notice that the colors are brighter for this DVD transfer.

I think the problem with the Beauty and the Beast colors isn't really the CAPS system but the film transfer they did on it. It seemed like it was a really old system and thus made the films that much darker.

I mean, check out this trailer for the Little Mermaid (not made on CAPS):\
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Oz0H4UHd2J4?fs ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Oz0H4UHd2J4?fs ... 2=0x999999" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Now the trailer for Aladdin, made in CAPS:
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RNFs_sESJEc?fs ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RNFs_sESJEc?fs ... 2=0x999999" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Both movies were done in different inking techniques, and yet both look very darker back when they were originally released. I believe its because of the type of film they used, affecting the lighting, color motifs and many other aspects of the movie.

Check out this trailer for Homeward Bound:
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/b9Pxi9vfzfE?fs ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/b9Pxi9vfzfE?fs ... 2=0x999999" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

It's very dark.

Now for The Nightmare Before Christmas:
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8qrB9I3DM80?fs ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8qrB9I3DM80?fs ... 2=0x999999" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Neither of these movies were drawn and inked on a computer. They were filmed and transferred onto another type of film. And both of these movies received a high definition transfer on their respective DVD and Blu Ray releases.

This is because we live in an era of digital film, where details are sharper, clearer, more defined. If you try to bring an old movie like that completely untouched, it is going to look bad... VERY bad. All flaws will be made more noticeable and it will be darker, more dirty.

Can there be mistakes in the transfer process? Of course. But is there some sort of conspiracy to "ruin" these films? Absolutely not. And that's why we tend to mock that sort of discussion, because it eventually dives into crazy conspiracy theories where people BELIEVE that they KNOW every detail about the movie and that the actual people involved are wrong in what they say.

And those are my thoughts: the darker transfers are likely the product of the film medium used, and that they needed to change and update the resolution so the DVD and Blu-Ray releases don't show the film's age and severe problems.

We now return to our regularly scheduled programming, brought to you by Milk Buds, Dora the Explorer and Lamp Chop's Play Along:
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1_47KVJV8DU?fs ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1_47KVJV8DU?fs ... 2=0x999999" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

[Lorddh]

So DMR released a $10 coupon again for BATB.
I'm hoping they rerelease another one for TS3. I missed it.

[Matt]

So DMR released a $10 coupon again for BATB.
I'm hoping they rerelease another one for TS3. I missed it.

Is it for the DVD too? I don't think it is.
I will try to use it though lol!

[Lorddh]

So DMR released a $10 coupon again for BATB.
I'm hoping they rerelease another one for TS3. I missed it.

Is it for the DVD too? I don't think it is.
I will try to use it though lol!

It's for the Bluray combo pack or the DVD combo pack! But it's still good!

[MJW]

So DMR released a $10 coupon again for BATB.
I'm hoping they rerelease another one for TS3. I missed it.

Wow, that's great that they are re-releasing the coupon! I, too, hope they re-release the TS3 coupon because I haven't gotten TS3 yet and wasn't interested in getting it when it first came out.

[Matt]

Yeah, but I don't think the coupon is for the 2-Disc DVD coming out though tomorrow. It only says about the combo packs. So Disney is acting like this release isn't even happening! Lol

[Disney's Divinity]

I know this would probably be more on-topic in the Tangled thread, but that thread's been hyper lately, and I'm not sure I would get a response:

I wanted to ask, for those who bought B&tB and got the Tangled voucher, did you have to print a ticket off? I'm pretty sure you would have to. And would theaters take the voucher even if it's black and white?

[Kyle]

I thought no one ended up getting the voucher?

[Lorddh]

I know this would probably be more on-topic in the Tangled thread, but that thread's been hyper lately, and I'm not sure I would get a response:

I wanted to ask, for those who bought B&tB and got the Tangled voucher, did you have to print a ticket off? I'm pretty sure you would have to. And would theaters take the voucher even if it's black and white?

Yes, you print it out. and yes, they'll take it. I know because for my Toy Story 3 free tickets one was colored and one was black and white and they took both without any trouble.

[Lorddh]

Yeah, but I don't think the coupon is for the 2-Disc DVD coming out though tomorrow. It only says about the combo packs. So Disney is acting like this release isn't even happening! Lol

Yeah, lol. Disney is pretending like the DVD releases don't even exists.

[Goliath]

Wow. This is exactly why I can't discuss the colors anymore. I repeat myself over and over, only to see some completely ignore what I've tried to address.

I have read what you said, but that doesn't mean that's the end of the discussion. Yes, it may be difficult to 'print out digitally-generated images onto physical media and match the colors correctly'. But all the other, post-BatB movies have had excellent colors on their dvd's, so it can be done! And it's not like this is the first time; it happened in 2002 also, and Disney hadn't done anything to solve it. Conclusion: they screwed up.

[...] Both movies were done in different inking techniques, and yet both look very darker back when they were originally released. I believe its because of the type of film they used, affecting the lighting, color motifs and many other aspects of the movie.

I don't think your examples are really valid. I was comparing the movie version on the dvd to the trailers, music video and camera tests on the very same dvd. You're comparing YouTube videos to each other --or YouTube videos to the dvd's. I don't think that's a good comparison, because YouTube inevitably gives a different picture quality.

This is because we live in an era of digital film, where details are sharper, clearer, more defined. If you try to bring an old movie like that completely untouched, it is going to look bad... VERY bad. All flaws will be made more noticeable and it will be darker, more dirty.

But that's not what we're talking about here. BatB is not an old movie. Neither are we talking about revealing flaws or dirty pictures. The trailer and video clip on the recent dvd all look fine. No flaws or dirty pictures there. The only problem is the brightness of the movie. It really gives a totally different feeling and atmosphere to the film.

Can there be mistakes in the transfer process? Of course. But is there some sort of conspiracy to "ruin" these films? Absolutely not. And that's why we tend to mock that sort of discussion, because it eventually dives into crazy conspiracy theories where people BELIEVE that they KNOW every detail about the movie and that the actual people involved are wrong in what they say.

Like I've said before: I'm not one who believes in conspiracy theories, because they don't make sense at all. So please, don't group me with those people. At the same time, again, I have to point out that it's very naive to blindly trust on the words of the people who worked on the film because they are employed by Disney. If Disney indeed has royally screwed up with the 2002 dvd and after that, didn't care at all to fix the problem (because that would cost them money), you really believe a Disney employee could come out and say that out in the open, without risking his job?