The Princess and the Frog Discussion - Part III

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Which is your favorite PatF character?

Princess Tiana
48
27%
Prince Naveen
19
11%
Dr. Facilier
33
19%
Mama Odie
7
4%
Eudora & James (Tiana's parents)
1
1%
Charlotte La Bouff
32
18%
Eli "Big Daddy" La Bouff (Charlotte's father)
1
1%
Ray (the firefly)
15
8%
Louis (the alligator)
19
11%
Other (say which)
3
2%
 
Total votes: 178

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Margos
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Post by Margos »

I just let my grandma listen to the soundtrack on my iPod. She had been mildly interested in seeing it before, but after hearing the music, her eyes went all wide, and she said "Is this still in theaters!?" I said yeah, and she was like "Yup, I'm gonna go see it," and she said she'll probably take me with her! :D This will only be the second movie I've ever seen twice in the theaters, if she does it!
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Post by UmbrellaFish »

So, as I previously mentioned, I saw “The Princess and the Frog” in theaters on Wednesday this week with my two younger sisters and my mother.



SPOILER ALERT!!! It's riddled with spoilers, and if you haven't seen the film, I reccomend you don't read my review!








Of course I was really excited. My sisters were too, but my mom had been hoping to take my little sister to see Alvin and the Chipmunks: The Squeakquel while my other sister and I watched “Princess”. However my youngest sister chose “Princess”, too, and I don’t think my mom was too happy about that.

I’ll try to review the movie from beginning to end from memory.

Let’s see- at first, I have to admit I was disappointed with the beginning. I had viewed it on the Snow White BD and thought it was delightful, but I had also hoped it would be tweaked before it reached theaters, but I suppose not. I guess the real problem with the opening is that’s there’s nothing too iconic or too amazing about it. I didn’t expect a storybook or stained glass window or anything, that’s not really Ron and John’s style. It just didn’t feel as majestic as Atlantica or The Cave of Wonders or Mount Olympus. Just not half as memorable.

I think Tiana is one of the most gorgeous Disney Princesses ever. She’s also very different from the past princesses, because she’s supposed to speak to this generation, as have all the Princesses before her.

The song “Down in New Orleans” was meh for me. I think it tried to tell a little too much of the story too quickly. In fact, this is where I believe the story was rushed.

Dr. Facilier- a great villain, but I don’t think one whom was used to his greatest ability. I don’t think his motives were very clear, or made a great deal of sense (I mean why just New Orleans?), and I think he could have used more screen time. Otherwise, he’s a delightful addition to the great line of Disney antagonists.

Prince Naveen- I wish we could have seen more of his conceited side when he was human. That’s my only regret about his character. His page, Lawrence, made for an interesting character, who had more sides than he let on.

I don’t remember much but the visuals of “I’ve Got Friends on the Other Side”. Just felt sort of quick.

The character of Charlotte was great, but I didn’t enjoy her as much as others here seemed to. She certainly had some of the best comedic moments of the film, and I think I’ll be able to appreciate her more when I watch the DVD this spring. Her father, Big Daddy, was fun, too, mainly because I love John Goodman. Speaking of Tiana’s mother, now, I must admit I was surprised how little screen time she had. I don’t feel it was in any way detrimental to the film, but I kind of figured they would flaunt Oprah Winfrey’s character in there.

“Almost There” was just that- almost there. Maybe I’ll have to listen to the soundtrack, but for me, it was sort of so-so.

Now, fast forward past Tiana’s transformation scene (which we’ve all seen a million times already thanks to Disney’s marketing department) to the bayou.

I didn’t like Louis (which I’ve been pronouncing LOU-E all this time now). He felt like extra baggage, and the plot wouldn’t have been harmed at all without him in it. I mean, he really plays such a minor role in Tiana’s and Naveen’s journey. I suppose one could argue that he is useful because he is the first one who tells Tiana and Naveen of Mama Odie, and the one who “sort-of” introduces them to Ray. But you could have put Ray in Louis’s place from the start, and have the exact same movie, except maybe without the “Rolling Down the Bayou” song.

And here we go- I love Ray, I love Evangeline, and I love the song “Ma Belle Evangeline”. I mean, Ray is singing the song about the “person” he loves, but it’s really Tiana’s and Naveen’s love song. It just proves how universal love really is…. Also, I come from the South and I’ve tried my hardest to not acquire a country accent (which, you’d be surprised, is similar to Ray’s Cajun), so the very fact that I love a song called “Ma Belle Evangeline” means something. It was just lovely.

Mama Odie was a cute character, who was used just a smidgeon too little. I’m glad she wasn’t plastered all over the movie, but whatever. “You’ve Got to Dig a Little Deeper” was a great, fun song, well executed I think. I should say, I think the quality of the songs picked up by the middle of the film. I mean, it was little racking to hear something that sounded like the Toy Story theme just before “Almost There”, but Newman did a fairly decent job. I mean, none of the music was mediocre.

Tiana and Naveen’s relationship was lovely to follow, and while I admit, Naveen seemed to fall head over heels in love with Tiana sort of quick, it wasn’t like she instantly loved him, and he certainly didn’t know how to express his love, which made the riverboat scenes and the climax really entertaining.

Dr. Facilier’s demise was “cool”- one of Disney’s “coolest”. A “cool” demise for a “cool” villain. Very reminiscent of Rasputin’s demise in Anastasia.

I knew Ray died, because I spoiled myself. I knew the whole basic plot, but I also decided not to listen to any of the music or watch most of the animated clips. Back to the topic, even though I knew Ray died, it was still so sad, and it was one of the time when I literally said to myself, “Maybe he’s still alive?”.

His funeral has to be one of the most touching pieces of Disney animation I have ever seen. I felt tears come up in my eyes when his star shone next to beautiful Evangeline. Writing this, I think Ray has become my favorite Disney sidekick, maybe because he was so much more. Quite touching.

Back to the bright side, Tiana and Naveen’s wedding/transformation was wonderful. Of course I’d already seen bits and pieces of it because of the trailers and the very few clips I watched way back, yet no less spectacular. Not quite as awesome as the Beast’s transformation, but I think more than Ariel’s final transformation (which the beauty in that is more of Ariel and Eric’s embrace).

One of the most refreshing bits was that we saw Tiana and Naveen’s married life- even the wedding rings on their fingers!

When the movie closed, there was applause, which was delightful to hear. “Princess”, I think, quite a movie.
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Post by estefan »

Interesting review, Fish.
UmbrellaFish wrote: Of course I was really excited. My sisters were too, but my mom had been hoping to take my little sister to see Alvin and the Chipmunks: The Squeakquel while my other sister and I watched “Princess”. However my youngest sister chose “Princess”, too, and I don’t think my mom was too happy about that.
I don't mean to pry, but I'm curious about this. Why would your mother be upset that your sister would choose an obviously superior and more intellectual film? :?
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Post by UmbrellaFish »

estefan wrote:Interesting review, Fish.
UmbrellaFish wrote: Of course I was really excited. My sisters were too, but my mom had been hoping to take my little sister to see Alvin and the Chipmunks: The Squeakquel while my other sister and I watched “Princess”. However my youngest sister chose “Princess”, too, and I don’t think my mom was too happy about that.
I don't mean to pry, but I'm curious about this. Why would your mother be upset that your sister would choose an obviously superior and more intellectual film? :?
Oh! I forget to mention- Chipmunks was the movie my mother wanted to see, too. :roll:
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Post by tsom »

Is anyone watching the Disney Parks Christmas Day Parade?

Well, Anika Noni Rose performed the Prologue and Down In New Orleans Finale from The Princess and the Frog.

They also had a float for a few of the princesses and Tiana was on it, along with Cinderella, Ariel, and Belle. Tiana's main dress is actually really pretty.
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Post by Sky Syndrome »

I'd say Dr. Facilier is a cross between Bowler Hat Guy from Meet the Robinsons and Hades from Hercules.

From what I gathered, he wanted to rule New Orleans because the upper class looked down their noses at him on the streets. It's his home too and he feels he has just as much right living there as wealthy people. But he feels he's got to prove to the upper class that he's their equal and more and can do that by obtaining wealth and generously handing over the city to the voo doo gods.
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Post by flipnoteguy »

Saw it again this morning, and turned out a bit better than the first time.

Did anyone notice that the forest wedding scene echoed a bit from the finale from Fantasia? Didn't catch it until this morning.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_U5OmWgNVk8k/S ... finale.jpg
http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/images/u ... New-we.jpg (not the actual scene, but setting was very similar to this).
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Post by Sky Syndrome »

I plan on seeing it a second time on the 27th. I just love seeing Tiana in her blue party dress.

Spoiler:
I can't believe Ray died. It's like if the makers of The Lion King had Pumbaa and Timon die at the teeth of the hyenas after they created a diversion for Simba to move in on Scar.
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Post by jpanimation »

UmbrellaFish wrote:I didn’t like Louis (which I’ve been pronouncing LOU-E all this time now). He felt like extra baggage, and the plot wouldn’t have been harmed at all without him in it. I mean, he really plays such a minor role in Tiana’s and Naveen’s journey. I suppose one could argue that he is useful because he is the first one who tells Tiana and Naveen of Mama Odie, and the one who “sort-of” introduces them to Ray. But you could have put Ray in Louis’s place from the start, and have the exact same movie, except maybe without the “Rolling Down the Bayou” song.
Louis was completely pointless. He was a great idea that Disney was obviously sold on but they let their fascination with that idea interfere with the story. When they first announced the movie, they placed a ton of emphasis on the trumpet playing alligator, and even rumored plans of a Disney Parks tie in restaurant featuring him. Someone in story needed to speak up and say, "I know we love this idea of a trumpet playing alligator but he's not working in this story and is nothing but baggage". At that point they could've suggested using him for the short on the DVD or something. I know dropping things you love is really hard, especially a character they were so excited about and got Eric Goldberg to work on, but someone at some part of pre-production should've done the brave thing.

We could do without that pointless song [Rolling Down the Bayou] also. I really didn't like Ray's voice at all, Jim Cummings is a talented voice actor but Ray just sounded so fabricated and not authentic (calling him a charicature is not an excuses for the overly cartoony voice). All of Ray's songs made me cringe, they were terrible to listen to.
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Post by pap64 »

*Is sad at all the Louis hate :(

I think that the reason Louis feels like extra baggage is because the story is so rushed that we aren't given enough time with him so we understand his plight, his importance to the story.

Let's take a look at Up. In Up there are three characters that accompany Carl: Russel, Kevin, and Dug. All three fall under the same category as Louis and Ray: they accompany the main characters and provide the film's humor.

BUT, Up was effective because the story takes its time is presenting the characters to us. We learn about them, we see them have their moment to shine, and most importantly, they give the main characters the incentive to pursue their own goals.

With Princess and the Frog, however, the story is rushed to the point where we aren't given enough time to CARE for these additional characters. Explore them a little more, learn why they have these dreams and have their moment to shine. Ray was technically given his chance, but Louis's moment was so small it didn't feel satisfying enough. Hell, even Rhino motivated Bolt during his movie!

Plus, most of the character development bulk is spent on Tiana and Naveen, almost leaving all characters with little to no development, making them feel like baggage characters.

I still love Louis. He has great animation and a fantastic voice, but I agree that the story should have slowed down a bit so the character is given more time to truly feel special and integral to the plot.
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Post by Margos »

I love Louis, too! Besides, he's a great source of comedy! Plus, the whole "Human Again" concept really works better, IMO, for both Naveen and Tiana when they find that they aren't the only animals in the swamp that want to be people. Would Ray have been able to fit that? No. Ray's perfectly happy being a firefly. In Louis, our heroes find a kindred spirit, and I think that there's something important in that, emotionally, as well.
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Post by a-net-fan »

Margos wrote:I love Louis, too! Besides, he's a great source of comedy! Plus, the whole "Human Again" concept really works better, IMO, for both Naveen and Tiana when they find that they aren't the only animals in the swamp that want to be people. Would Ray have been able to fit that? No. Ray's perfectly happy being a firefly. In Louis, our heroes find a kindred spirit, and I think that there's something important in that, emotionally, as well.
I tend to agree here. I thought for sure Louis would be annoying but I can honestly admit I enjoyed him...not as much as Ray but he was a fine addition to the amazing cast of characters in this movie.
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Post by IagoZazu »

I like Louis a lot too. Unlike Tiana and Naveen, Louis didn't want to be human just to be a human, he wanted to play jazz so he could play with the other humans.

Now that I think about it, Louis might not have been the only animal who wanted to be human. In the Dig a little Deeper song, Mama Odie sings that she's visited by animals all the time that ask her to turn them into humans, but she always told them to "Dig a little Deeper" for their real identity. So apprently when Louis becomes the lead player of the band at Tiana's restaurant, that meant that he didn't have to be human to fulfill his dream.
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Post by Disney's Divinity »

I'm kind of neutral about Louis--sort of how I've felt about most sidekicks from the latter side of the '90s. I didn't find him funny at all (sorry) and he doesn't add anything that wasn't already there on its own, but he didn't completely gratiate on my nerves either (like BEN in TP) and I thought his animation was great. I definitely agree the film would work better without him; all the time they wasted on him, they could've used for someone else (like Ray, Facilier, Lawrence, or Mama Odie). And, personally, as I stated before, I think he brings Ray down, too. Ray's pretty serious on his own, but when they force Louis to be his crutch, we had to deal with less comedic/emotional moments. However, I think they loved "When We're Human" so much that they included him for that reason alone. Oh, and the Disney requirement for an unfunny sidekick.

Just as a side comment, I still don't get what people are saying about pacing. Only the part with Naveen and Facilier at the beginning feels rushed to me. I suppose pacing is going to be written down as TP&TF's "problem" in the future, even though I don't even see it.

As for something said earlier about Tiana being outshone by Naveen, I for one paid more attention to Tiana than anyone else the entire swamp section of the movie. I think the only character who might've stole the show for a moment was Mama Odie. Regardless, this has happened in a lot of Disney movies. When other characters are allowed to go farther than the protagonists, they're bound to steal the show (particularly the villains).

Also, commenting on something I said earlier, just because Naveen is in the title doesn't necessarily mean he's the main character. Sleeping Beauty, anyone? I still feel the majority of the movie was focused on Tiana more than Naveen.
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Post by schoollover »

I saw the film two weeks ago but I wasn't able to type how I felt about it

I would give it 5 out of 5!

Charlotte just might be the funniest character in a disney movie even beating out genie from aladdin. When I first heard abut her I thought she was going to be a very mean person to Tiana but was very nice.

Every character had a reason for being there. The backrounds and animation were breathtaking. Now I can't wait for Rapunzel and TPATF's Blu-ray and Dvd release here's hoping it's a 2- disc.
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Post by DisneyJedi »

schoollover wrote:Now I can't wait for Rapunzel and TPATF's Blu-ray and Dvd release here's hoping it's a 2- disc.
Here's to hoping the second disc on the DVD version isn't some Digital Copy. :P
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Post by Sky Syndrome »

schoollover wrote:Charlotte just might be the funniest character in a disney movie even beating out genie from aladdin. When I first heard abut her I thought she was going to be a very mean person to Tiana but was very nice.
Like how Darla Dimple was mean to Danny in Cats Don't Dance? It's refreshing seeing a spoiled single kid in a film treat people kindly even as a spoiled adult because they grew up with a kid from a poor family who showed them what being a friend is all about.
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Post by CampbellzSoup »

If this was the last 2D movie we got at least we went out with a bang this felt like it belonged right in 90's Disney cannon, and I can not appreicate how much respect I felt seeing it on the big screen...little things in life u gotta appreicate and seeing a Disney movie in the movies is a special feeling that you'll always remember and can pass on to your kids.
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Post by DisneyJedi »

CampbellzSoup wrote:If this was the last 2D movie we got at least we went out with a bang this felt like it belonged right in 90's Disney cannon, and I can not appreicate how much respect I felt seeing it on the big screen...little things in life u gotta appreicate and seeing a Disney movie in the movies is a special feeling that you'll always remember and can pass on to your kids.
I'm pretty sure this won't be their last, since there are a few more hand-drawn movies planned, like The Snow Queen and a surprise movie directed by John Musker and Ron Clements. ;)
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Post by Siren »

Sky Syndrome wrote:
schoollover wrote:Charlotte just might be the funniest character in a disney movie even beating out genie from aladdin. When I first heard abut her I thought she was going to be a very mean person to Tiana but was very nice.
Like how Darla Dimple was mean to Danny in Cats Don't Dance? It's refreshing seeing a spoiled single kid in a film treat people kindly even as a spoiled adult because they grew up with a kid from a poor family who showed them what being a friend is all about.
I feel the same way. She wasn't a tad bit jealous and she didn't feel sorry for herself when Naveen chose Tiana. She was totally selfless. So many spoiled kids get a bad rap for being spoiled rotten. And frankly, I pegged her early on to be a little b****. But Disney proved me wrong in falling into that stereotype and it was a breath of fresh air. She is probably one of Disney's best best friends they have ever created. Were as Genie was Aladdin's friend through and through, he still was getting something out of the deal...his freedom. And Timon and Pumbaa started them friendship off as wanting a bodyguard, even teasing him when he was an adult about the kings of the past thing. But Charlotte is one of those friends who expects nothing in return. Frankly, I'd love to see more of her. If they do a sequel (and they probably will), I hope she is included.
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