Pocahontas Special Edition Discussion

[KubrickFan]

It's from 1995, there's no need for a restoration and there never will be. Especially because it was made in CAPS. They just used the digital files and put those on the dvd.
I do think that the dvd holds up remarkably well, compared to Blu-rays (I know Pocahontas isn't out on Blu, but compared to other animation it holds up pretty good) but that's the way with a lot of animation.

Yes, no restoration is needed for CAPS files, which makes me wonder why Disney is holding Hercules and Hunchback up (I know, I know that this has been discussed n times before, but it is still frustrating).

And with regards to the new sequence, it was originally intended to be in the movie and it fits well, especially if you have noted that the whole score of Pocahontas has the "If I Never Knew You" motif recurring a number of times.

Well, Disney works in mysterious ways. It would be easier to release the CAPS movies in a very short time, but Disney isn't going to put them out all at once. Plus, they seem to focus more on the older movies now, so maybe they're working more or less chronologically now. I'm glad we're just getting a Classic released on Blu-ray that's not a Platinum/Diamond Edition. That way we'll see a lot more movies soon, hopefully.
As for the 'new' sequence, it was always intended to be in it, wasn't it? And some kids in the preview audience got bored by it, so they cut it. But it was always meant to be there, not an afterthought like 'Morning Report' or something.

[SmartAleck25]

I thought that the BATB directors wanted Human Again in there, but they couldn't because of story problems (which they resolved in 2002).

[SpringHeelJack]

It was written to be in the movie, but it never made it anywhere near as far into it as "If I Never Knew You" did. Had a bunch of kids not gotten jumpy in advanced screenings, it would still be in it.

On that note, I never got that "We didn't know where to put 'Human Again' in the movie" thing. I mean, maybe it's something you can only see when you distance yourself from the movie, but did no one REALLY ever think "Maybe it could go after 'Human Again'" until like ten years later?

[disneyboy20022]

Also.....new scenes have are not anything new.....look at Star Wars and George Lucas.....actually that's the worse case scenario of re-release with new scenes and extras.....


why are we all posting all this..about edits and stuff...arent we afraid of a Marky takeover with this kind of talk

[Cordy_Biddle]

I thought that the BATB directors wanted Human Again in there, but they couldn't because of story problems (which they resolved in 2002).

I recall hearing something how the filmmakers thought "Human Again" was too similar in it's ideas to "Something There", and they didn't want to drag the story out with two musical numbers that basically covered the same ground.

When the time came for expanding the show for Broadway, 'Human Again' was a natural fit.

[Dragonlion]

Actually, I heard "Human Again" used to cover "Something's There" part, but got cut due to the plot hole of time. People were thinking that Maurice couldn't be lost in the forest for however long Belle stayed at the castle.

[Matt]

I still don't see why Disney took out "If I Never Knew You" just because a bunch of kids had to much candy and soda and were jumping around in the screening! That scene added so much more emotion to the film and I am glad they added it back to the DVD.

[KubrickFan]

I still don't see why Disney took out "If I Never Knew You" just because a bunch of kids had to much candy and soda and were jumping around in the screening! That scene added so much more emotion to the film and I am glad they added it back to the DVD.

Just imagine, if they did the same thing with The Little Mermaid, 'Part Of Your World' would've only been in a possible extended version of the movie too. I don't know about you, but that's a terrible thought to me.

[estefan]

Plus, deleting that sequence wouldn't have made Ariel any different from the Walt-era princesses. It's such an important part of her character.

[DisneyFan09]

[quote="Matt"]I still don't see why Disney took out "If I Never Knew You" just because a bunch of kids had to much candy and soda and were jumping around in the screening! That scene added so much more emotion to the film and I am glad they added it back to the DVD. [/quote]

Every situation has two sides. I understand why they took "If I Never Knew You" out; Because it's an complex and adult song and a slow, melancholic ballad. Normally, kids are not into such songs, so it wasn't strange that kids in the test audience became restless or got bored. The whole case is somehow ironic, cause "Pocahontas" was made on a time period were Disney films attracted both adults as kids and "Beauty and the Beast" and "The Lion King" had mature themes which suited to both kids and adults.

But back to the case; I saw "Pocahontas" in the theaters as a kid back in 1995 and I loved it. Although I did missed a love duet between Pocahontas and John Smith, since "Beauty and the Beast", "Aladdin" and "The Lion King" had beautiful love duets, I still think I wouldn't liked "If I Never Knew You" if I saw it as a kid. I agree that the song add some integrity and weight on the movie and the two lovebirds relationship, although it isn't my favorite moment of "Pocahontas". But fortunately they brought it back on the movie on the dvd.

[drnilescrane]

Ignoring the plot issues for a second, the biggest tragedy of removing If I Never Knew You is that it made the score meaningless - Most of the scenes featuring Pocahontas and Smith were scored with If I Never Knew You underneath them building up to the end duet where we get to hear the song in all it's glory. You keep waiting for the song, only to get the pop synth with never-have-been's at the end (admittedly, I love the sparkly synth version, but that's beside the point ).

[SpringHeelJack]

Well, while I lament it's loss, I don't think it really throws the movie's score off. Just because something is used as a melodic theme in underscore doesn't really mean it needs to be used as a song.

Speaking of using deleted material in the film's score, doesn't "THOND" use "Someday" as score in some parts of the film, too?

[drnilescrane]

Well, while I lament it's loss, I don't think it really throws the movie's score off. Just because something is used as a melodic theme in underscore doesn't really mean it needs to be used as a song.

No, it doesn't - but that doesn't stop it from being stronger conceptually with the song there.

[SpringHeelJack]

No, I'm not saying it doesn't make it stronger, I'm just saying it doesn't mke the score "meaningless".

[Margos]

Speaking of using deleted material in the film's score, doesn't "THOND" use "Someday" as score in some parts of the film, too?

It does... it's sort of Quasi and Esmeralda's theme. But that song in and of itself wasn't as strong as "God Help the Outcasts," which replaced it and left it sort of redundant. The thing with "If I Never Knew You" was that it wasn't replaced with anything, and it really did leave an emotional hole in the story.

[rj.disney]

It does... it's sort of Quasi and Esmeralda's theme. But that song in and of itself wasn't as strong as "God Help the Outcasts," which replaced it and left it sort of redundant. The thing with "If I Never Knew You" was that it wasn't replaced with anything, and it really did leave an emotional hole in the story.

I wholeheartedly agree.

What about the Shooting Star song from Hercules, was it supposed to be in the film and was replaced by Go the Distance?

[ajmrowland]

It does... it's sort of Quasi and Esmeralda's theme. But that song in and of itself wasn't as strong as "God Help the Outcasts," which replaced it and left it sort of redundant.

I disagree. The pop rendition of the song was very strong, even if the song deleted from the film wasn't.

[Margos]

It was pretty good for an end credit song, but I don't think that the lyrics for "Someday" had the potency of "God Help the Outcasts." The melody is quite good, but it's the lyrics that really carry the message of the song, and the latter does the better job by far.

[SpringHeelJack]

I will be the first to say it would have made the film's pacing off, but I really like how the stage version of "THOND" uses "Someday" right after the court of miracles scene and before Frollo's public exxecution of Esmeralda.

[Cordy_Biddle]

Even in my early teens, the one song that I was drawn to the most on the 'Pocahontas' soundtrack was the Jon Secada/Shanice pop duet cover of "If I Never Knew You". You can keep "Colours of the Wind"...the true heart of the movie lies in that beautifully bittersweet love song.