Tangled (Live-Action)

[JeanGreyForever]

By the way, Duster, "You're My Forever" was a song written for Tangled, not Glen Keane's Rapunzel. His version was not a musical.

Hmm, that's not quite what I've heard. The film wasn't a musical in the Broadway style like Mermaid, BATB, Aladdin, etc. but I read that it was still supposed to feature songs but in the vein of the older Walt films.

Jeanine Tesori also worked on Glen Keane's Rapunzel, not just Rapunzel Unbraided. Real shame we never got to hear her songs.
https://animatedviews.com/2008/ariels-s ... r-the-sea/

Alternating between the stage and the screen, it’s during the production of DreamWorks’ Shrek: the Musical in Seattle that we meet her, before she goes back to Disney animation with Glen Keane’s most anticipated Rapunzel.

AV: And now, how is Rapunzel [right] going?

JT: Actually, they went back and are re-working it. Initially, it worked somehow like Enchanted did. There were similarities between the live/animation and the going back in time, going from a fairytale time into contemporary that I know that Glen Keane really wanted to re-examine. So, he’s back to pre-production. Glen is a director I love and can’t wait to work with again. He’s a very musical man, too. Not every director is. But for right now, that part of the process in on hold. I hope that we can get back in there soon. That director is a real inspiration to me!

[D82]

^Thanks for sharing that bit of info, JeanGreyForever. But that doesn't really prove Glen's version was going to be a musical, does it? According to Jeanine Tesori, at the moment of that interview the film was being reworked and the musical part of the process was on hold. Maybe she did work on that version, but it's not clear from that interview.

The film wasn't a musical in the Broadway style like Mermaid, BATB, Aladdin, etc. but I read that it was still supposed to feature songs but in the vein of the older Walt films.

If that's true, then the music was going to be more or less like in the version we ended up getting.

In a surprisingly candid interview, Glenn Slater revealed the filmmakers didn't take into consideration their input and ignored their suggestions, didn't let them do a Broadway-styled balled for the love song, didn't let them write a song for Flynn, removed a verse from Mother Knows Best, cut a reprise of When Will My Life Begin, and in general made them feel very constricted creatively.

Do you happen to have a link to that interview? It would be interesting to read it, because I actually don't remember having heard of all that before.

It has nothing to do with the number of the songs, it has to do with the directors' obvious disdain for the musical numbers in the interviews. The film is a musical in spite of them, but Menken had to work with them and that obviously impaired the music for the film. The music for the series is much better, jmo.

I hadn't thought of that before because I didn't know the relationship with the directors was that difficult, but it's true that that could have had an effect on the quality of the songs. Another thing that probably contributed to them not being better is that they didn't give Menken and Slater a lot of time to work on the songs. That's the reason why Alan was hired in the first place; because they knew he could work fast.

Regarding the directors, I don't remember what they exactly said in those interviews, but they could've been told to say that by their superiors given that the studio wanted to hide the fact that it was a musical as much as possible. And, if that was the case, I partially understand them because they didn't want to lose their jobs.

I don't give so much value to marketing, it's there for a few months and then it's gone and what remains is the film itself while the general audience mostly doesn't really remember how it was marketed. It's a shame that some dismiss films based on the way they were marketed when the final product is anything but the way it was marketed.

I completely agree with you, but unfortunately a bad marketing can cause a lot of damage. Some good films have flopped due to a bad or wrong publicity campaign.

The songs in Tangled might not have been as good as they could have been, but honestly they are not that bad, just not as rememberable as Let it Go or How Far I'll Go. After rewatching TPatF the other day, I do think Tangled's songs are better than TPatF's. Moreover, after listening to Tangled's score, I think it was really good and very reminiscent of Menken's 90's scores.

I agree, Tangled's songs are not bad and the score is the best from the revival so far in my opinion.

[Disney's Divinity]

Regarding the directors, I don't remember what they exactly said in those interviews, but they could've been told to say that by their superiors given that the studio wanted to hide the fact that it was a musical as much as possible. And, if that was the case, I partially understand them because they didn't want to lose their jobs.

You're right, some of it was probably due to people above them, too. No doubt Lasseter interfered on Tangled as much as TP&tF and all the other films he worked on.

I agree, Tangled's songs are not bad and the score is the best from the revival so far in my opinion.

I feel the same way about the score.

[Sotiris]

But that doesn't really prove Glen's version was going to be a musical, does it? According to Jeanine Tesori, at the moment of that interview the film was being reworked and the musical part of the process was on hold. Maybe she did work on that version, but it's not clear from that interview.

Here's a brief timeline of the various iterations the Disney adaptation went through.

1996-2002: Glen Keane starts developing Rapunzel; he keeps working on it in-between other projects.
2002-2006: The film finally gets greenlit with Glen Keane as director; it morphs into Rapunzel: Unbraided; Jeanine Tesori & Alexa Junge are brought on as songwriters; Kristin Chenoweth and Reese Witherspoon sign on to voice Rapunzel (who turned into a squirrel) and Claire (the modern-day teenager who turned into Rapunzel) respectively.
2006-2007: The project goes back to its initial, non-musical serious take.
2007-2008: Dean Wellins is promoted to co-director.
2008-2009: Glen Keane is ousted; Byron Howard and Nathan Greno become the new directors; film gets heavily retooled.
2009-2010: Changes are made to make the film more boy-friendly (e.g. new prologue, more emphasis on Flynn); film gets renamed to Tangled.

Do you happen to have a link to that interview? It would be interesting to read it, because I actually don't remember having heard of all that before.

Sure, here you go!

Tangled's songs are not bad and the score is the best from the revival so far in my opinion.

Agreed! Tangled's score is great.

[nomad2010]

I’ve never read anything about Glen’s version not being a musical. From everything I’d read, and it was extensive, it hadn’t gotten to a place where music would’ve been written. They’d plotted the first act, Lassetter said it was the best of any Disney film, and then they got stuck because the story stalled once she was in the tower. Eventually Glen left/was taken off the project/had his heart attack. This whole story could almost use its own thread because it’s a fascinating story and development process.

[Sotiris]

I’ve never read anything about Glen’s version not being a musical.

Rapunzel Storyboards (2008). This movie was in pre-production for many years and was conceived in just about every way imaginable before becoming the "Tangled" movie that is currently in theaters. During my brief time on the movie, about 6 weeks, the story-telling was darker and more dramatic in tone than what was in the final movie. There were no songs, no slapstick -- and no horse! (...just a basset hound.) Mother Gothel was a sinister, brooding villain in the tradition of the Queen in Snow White.

Source: https://tobyshelton.blogspot.com/2010/1 ... -2008.html

[DisneyFan97]

Is this a troll joke or are actually Disney remaking a movie that’s bearly TEN YEARS OLD Beacuse That’s bloody rediculus!!!

[nomad2010]

I’ve never read anything about Glen’s version not being a musical.

Rapunzel Storyboards (2008). This movie was in pre-production for many years and was conceived in just about every way imaginable before becoming the "Tangled" movie that is currently in theaters. During my brief time on the movie, about 6 weeks, the story-telling was darker and more dramatic in tone than what was in the final movie. There were no songs, no slapstick -- and no horse! (...just a basset hound.) Mother Gothel was a sinister, brooding villain in the tradition of the Queen in Snow White.

Source: https://tobyshelton.blogspot.com/2010/1 ... -2008.html

Thank you! That’s wild to me. I can’t believe they were plotting their return to big lavish fairy tales without music at one time.

[JeanGreyForever]

^Thanks for sharing that bit of info, JeanGreyForever. But that doesn't really prove Glen's version was going to be a musical, does it? According to Jeanine Tesori, at the moment of that interview the film was being reworked and the musical part of the process was on hold. Maybe she did work on that version, but it's not clear from that interview.

The film wasn't a musical in the Broadway style like Mermaid, BATB, Aladdin, etc. but I read that it was still supposed to feature songs but in the vein of the older Walt films.

If that's true, then the music was going to be more or less like in the version we ended up getting.

That's true because the wording is tricky. The opening says she is going back to Disney Animation with Rapunzel which implies she was just moved into the film around the time that Rapunzel Unbraided was retooled into Glen Keane's Rapunzel. I'm not sure when she was taken off the film. For example, if she was immediately replaced by Menken because they needed to get a composer who could quickly write the songs or if there was a gap between when Tesori was removed from the project and when Menken was hired.

[Disney's Divinity]

Yes, very interesting to think they were going to imitate the Walt fairy tales without music...when all the Walt films had music themselves. I understand if they had thought to tread from the Broadway style of other modern Disney films, but no music at all in that case is interesting considering the comparisons made to those older films.

[D82]

Here's a brief timeline of the various iterations the Disney adaptation went through.

1996-2002: Glen Keane starts developing Rapunzel; he keeps working on it in-between other projects.
2002-2006: The film finally gets greenlit with Glen Keane as director; it morphs into Rapunzel: Unbraided; Jeanine Tesori & Alexa Junge are brought on as songwriters; Kristin Chenoweth and Reese Witherspoon sign on to voice Rapunzel (who turned into a squirrel) and Claire (the modern-day teenager who turned into Rapunzel) respectively.
2006-2007: The project goes back to its initial, non-musical serious take.
2007-2008: Dean Wellins is promoted to co-director.
2008-2009: Glen Keane is ousted; Byron Howard and Nathan Greno become the new directors; film gets heavily retooled.
2009-2010: Changes are made to make the film more boy-friendly (e.g. new prologue, more emphasis on Flynn); film gets renamed to Tangled.

Thanks for that timeline! John Musker and Ron Clements were also involved with the project for a short period of time before they left the studio, as Clements reveals in that interview I recently shared in another thread.

Sure, here you go!

Thanks a lot! I believe I had actually read your post, because I remember part of it. I probably didn't watch the video, though, because I didn't understand English that well back then and a long conversation like that was difficult for me. It's an interesting interview. I didn't know how he started to work for Disney and how he met Alan. Here's the point in the interview where he mentions his experience with Tangled, in case anyone else is interested.

I partly understand the directors because they were the leaders after all and probably they were also under a lot of pressure, as you said, given that they were under the same time constraints too. But they could've been more respectful and considerate to them. I wish we could hear some of the earlier versions of "I See the Light". Alan played a really brief snippet of one of them in this interview, but it's so short that you can't get a good idea of how the song was going to be.

That's true because the wording is tricky. The opening says she is going back to Disney Animation with Rapunzel which implies she was just moved into the film around the time that Rapunzel Unbraided was retooled into Glen Keane's Rapunzel. I'm not sure when she was taken off the film. For example, if she was immediately replaced by Menken because they needed to get a composer who could quickly write the songs or if there was a gap between when Tesori was removed from the project and when Menken was hired.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but by the way she talks there, it seems to me she hadn't worked on the more serious take of the story yet, just on Rapunzel Unbraided, and that interview is from September 2008. According to the timeline Sotiris posted, that version started to be developed around 2006-2007, so shouldn't she had been part of the development team alongside Glen Keane during all that time if the film was still a musical? My guess is that when the film was retooled, they planned to make it without songs. At least at first. That's why she said that part of the process was on hold. But she probably hadn't been officially fired yet, so she had hopes she would still work on the movie. And maybe she was called back after the interview, but not too long after that the project was retooled again and Alan Menken was brought in, so I'm not sure if she really got to work on that version or not.

[Disney Duster]

Thank you for that snippet of what "I See the Light" was going to be, D82! It sounds like it actually could have been great, too. Better than the final one? Well, couldn't really tell.

[Sotiris]

Maybe I'm mistaken, but by the way she talks there, it seems to me she hadn't worked on the more serious take of the story yet, just on Rapunzel Unbraided, and that interview is from September 2008.

You're not mistaken. It was clear she had only worked on Unbraided at the time of the interview. Reports that the studio had moved away from Unbraided surfaced in 2006 coinciding with Stainton leaving and Lasseter taking over. We know for a fact that in 2007-2008, the version Glen Keane was working on had no songs, and that by October 2008, Howard & Greno were announced as the new directors. In February 2009, it was revealed Menken had already written two songs for the new directors.

Tesori either wasn't informed they had gone with a non-musical direction a long time ago and she wouldn't be involved with the project anymore or she knew but wasn't comfortable revealing it to the public, especially at a time when she was doing press for Ariel's Beginning and the news she was off Rapunzel could have possibly upstaged that.

[JeanGreyForever]

That doesn't seem to fit with the timeline though. If 2006-2007 was when the film went back to being a non-musical and traditional take on the story, why was Jeanine Tesori still on the film by 2008, just shortly before Glen Keane would be taken off? Wouldn't they have removed her way before especially since Ariel's Beginning was delayed until 2008? They had plenty of years before then to take her off when the film was no longer a musical supposedly and before Ariel's Beginning was even close to being released.

I've heard lots of people say that the film, even under Keane, went through variations such as no songs (which we have official confirmation of) and songs in the old Walt Disney style rather than the Broadway style from the 90s. Probably why Menken wasn't part of the film until after the film was retooled into Tangled since if there was music planned, it wouldn't have been his signature style. I also find it hard to believe that Keane said this film was a throwback to the Walt Disney films of old but there would be no music whatsoever when all of Walt's films, particularly the fairy tales, had songs.

There was a Tumblr user who actually spoke to Glen Keane about his version when she met him and while he couldn't divulge much contractually, I wonder if he mentioned anything about music to her.

[D82]

We know for a fact that in 2007-2008, the version Glen Keane was working on had no songs, and that by October 2008, Howard & Greno were announced as the new directors.

That's less than a month after the interview with Jeanine Tesori, so it's very unlikely she returned to the project before Howard & Greno started working on their version. Yeah, most likely she was never involved with Glen's traditional version of the fairy tale.

That doesn't seem to fit with the timeline though. If 2006-2007 was when the film went back to being a non-musical and traditional take on the story, why was Jeanine Tesori still on the film by 2008, just shortly before Glen Keane would be taken off? Wouldn't they have removed her way before especially since Ariel's Beginning was delayed until 2008? They had plenty of years before then to take her off when the film was no longer a musical supposedly and before Ariel's Beginning was even close to being released.

Well, maybe people just supposed she was still working on it because it hadn't been announced otherwise. Disney maybe didn't announce she was not involved with it anymore because they didn't want more negative press about the movie. And, like Sotiris said, perhaps she didn't know, or didn't want (or had permission) to reveal it in that interview.

I also find it hard to believe that Keane said this film was a throwback to the Walt Disney films of old but there would be no music whatsoever when all of Walt's films, particularly the fairy tales, had songs.

Yeah, I also find it a bit strange, but maybe he was referring to other aspects of the films by Walt Disney.

[JeanGreyForever]

That doesn't seem to fit with the timeline though. If 2006-2007 was when the film went back to being a non-musical and traditional take on the story, why was Jeanine Tesori still on the film by 2008, just shortly before Glen Keane would be taken off? Wouldn't they have removed her way before especially since Ariel's Beginning was delayed until 2008? They had plenty of years before then to take her off when the film was no longer a musical supposedly and before Ariel's Beginning was even close to being released.

Well, maybe people just supposed she was still working on it because it hadn't been announced otherwise. Disney maybe didn't announce she was not involved with it anymore because they didn't want more negative press about the movie. And, like Sotiris said, perhaps she didn't know, or didn't want (or had permission) to reveal it in that interview.

I also find it hard to believe that Keane said this film was a throwback to the Walt Disney films of old but there would be no music whatsoever when all of Walt's films, particularly the fairy tales, had songs.

Yeah, I also find it a bit strange, but maybe he was referring to other aspects of the films by Walt Disney.

Perhaps. Tbh, this film had one of the longest and most confusing productions of any and they aren't paricularly forthcoming on prior versions of the film so it's difficult to tell what really occurred because of all the murkiness. Like I said before, a girl on Tumblr met Glen Keane and he said he wasn't able to divulge much information because of legal reasons.

[D82]

Tbh, this film had one of the longest and most confusing productions of any and they aren't paricularly forthcoming on prior versions of the film so it's difficult to tell what really occurred because of all the murkiness.

That's true. It would be great if someday they would make a documentary about its production. It would be really interesting to watch.

[JeanGreyForever]

Tbh, this film had one of the longest and most confusing productions of any and they aren't paricularly forthcoming on prior versions of the film so it's difficult to tell what really occurred because of all the murkiness.

That's true. It would be great if someday they would make a documentary about its production. It would be really interesting to watch.

After how The Sweatbox has been treated, I can't see Disney ever doing that. Same with American Dog which got almost no mention in the Bolt bonus features. And even their non-Disney animated titles, like Star Wars films with troubled productions get completely glossed over. There was supposed to be a making-of book for The Force Awakens which was scrapped last minute because they didn't want all the production troubles to be outed to the public and the author says he thinks they never had a plan to release the book in the first place.

[Disney's Divinity]

That's true. It would be great if someday they would make a documentary about its production. It would be really interesting to watch.

Yes, it would be nice to have everything that happened with Rapunzel laid out like that, with less confusion over what happened when.

[D82]

After how The Sweatbox has been treated, I can't see Disney ever doing that. Same with American Dog which got almost no mention in the Bolt bonus features. And even their non-Disney animated titles, like Star Wars films with troubled productions get completely glossed over.

Yes, I know it's quite unlikely to happen. An unofficial book maybe would be more likely, though I'm not sure about that either.