Fantasia: 2-Movie Collection - 11/30/10 (Part 2)

[Jules]

Yes, Destino is hand drawn. I believe it was animated at the WDAS satellite unit in Paris. I wonder why it wasn't done by the guys in Burbank or Florida.

[Wonderlicious]

Might Destino be sourced from a print because a few seconds of it (around 20 or so, I believe) were actually shot directly to film anyway? And it was probably finished by the studio in Paris because it would have been easier to do so there. By the time Destino was in production, the studio in Florida were making full animated films, whereas the studio in Paris were making just a few segments of animated features otherwise animated in California (as the Florida studio had once been), and it probably would have been easier for them to make a seven-minute short while the other studios.

[PatrickvD]

I don't have time/energy to browse the forums and the web so I'll just ask: is Fantasia 2000 coming as a separate release on Blu-ray at some point? I did notice artwork for a separate dvd release.

Anyway, I got Fantasia on Blu-ray and it looks magnificent. Animation is crisp and stunning and the live action segments are so clear it's almost as if you'll see it for the first time.

Best Blu-ray release since Sleeping Beauty.

[steve]

I do have a bit of disappointing news regarding Destino, however. For its Blu-ray release, it has not been given a direct digital transfer. The presentation clearly shows it's taken off a print. It's a little noisy, less stable than Fantasia 2000 and contains a couple of spots and flecks.

At least it gives the now-primitive-looking CGI a bit of texture...

As far as "disappointing" goes, this really is just the tip of the iceberg. Without getting into it, I simply can't get over the way these films have been treated on Blu-ray.

[miniroll32]

I agree. The restorations shouldn't come into the argument because all of Disney classic traditional films are having the same restoration treatment; thats a universal attribute. But when it comes to features, there is a clear void.

Beauty and The Beast is typically Disney's lovechild - almost to the degree that its laughable. I really like that film and got it on Blu-Ray, but the sheer distance in the number of extra features between B&TB and Fantasia is just staggering - you'd think on paper that Fantasia was an insignificant film when, in fact, it was a more significant film for what it gave to the music and theatre industry.

[yamiiguy]

To counter the negative feel of this thread I feel that I should put forward my views. The most important aspect of any release is the main feature and they have been treated spectacularly. Disney is about the only studio that puts so much effort into restoring every title, no matter what the sales expectations. Bonus Features are just that - bonus and there is a very respectable amount. This will not sell as much as Beauty and the Beast or Snow White. We have Destino, which the fans have been clambering for. We have quite a big documentary on Destino too. We may not have 'The Concert Feature' and 'Fantasia Continued' in HD but we have many SD Bonus Features on BD-Live.

[BK]

To counter the negative feel of this thread I feel that I should put forward my views. The most important aspect of any release is the main feature and they have been treated spectacularly. Disney is about the only studio that puts so much effort into restoring every title, no matter what the sales expectations. Bonus Features are just that - bonus and there is a very respectable amount. This will not sell as much as Beauty and the Beast or Snow White. We have Destino, which the fans have been clambering for. We have quite a big documentary on Destino too. We may not have 'The Concert Feature' and 'Fantasia Continued' in HD but we have many SD Bonus Features on BD-Live.

You have got to be joking. Seen my post in the Diamond-future thread?

Disney does not mean solely animation.

Many SD bonus features that are unavailable to download and streamed in a small box that previous Fantasia owners already would have? Sounds like a lot of effort. We should award them with gold and silver for their trials and tribulations they took to reach this stage.

Please take off those rose-coloured glasses. Again, this is Blu-Ray, they are EXPECTED to give you the best restoration, anything off and they have failed miserably. Why tout "It's the best a movie will look," and produce a sub-standard transfer? Exactly. Praise should not be so lavishly spent on what should be a given.

[steve]

Disney is about the only studio that puts so much effort into restoring every title, no matter what the sales expectations.

Off topic, but wait for blu-rays of the package films or the likes of The Black Cauldron...

Seriously though, I do agree with you about the main features, but as miniroll32 said, it's almost a given that they were going to get good restorations. The big disappointment arises because a precedent had been set by the Diamond Edition of Snow White, and Disney initially advertised these releases as Diamond Editions. Instead, what they've delivered are the kind of lackluster "special editions" we've come to expect from a re-release of something like The Fox and the Hound. Although at this point I'm probably hammering a point that's already been well-made...

[MJW]

Off topic, but wait for blu-rays of the package films or the likes of The Black Cauldron...

Hasn't The Black Cauldron already been fully restored by Lowry Digital? I am not sure if this also means that it's HD ready, but the reviews on the picture quality of the TBC DVD have been great.

[Escapay]

Disney is about the only studio that puts so much effort into restoring every title, no matter what the sales expectations.

Disney has put CRAP effort in restoring their live-action catalogue titles. As BK said: "Disney does not mean solely animation."

As for other studios who put effort into restoring titles:

Criterion Collection

Sony & The Film Foundation's Collector's Choice box sets

Warner Bros. live-action catalogue films, before they went Archive Collection

Kino Video

Even little companies like Timeless Media Group put effort when they release material. Their "Life with Elizabeth" 2-DVD set looks quite good considering the source material.

Many SD bonus features that are unavailable to download and streamed in a small box that previous Fantasia owners already would have? Sounds like a lot of effort.

Exactly. Plus, I personally (if I didn't already have the Anthology set) would rather just buy a "Fantasia Legacy" bonus disc on e-bay than set up the otherwise-useless-to-me BD-Live. And watching it on the bonus disc ensures it's at least pillarboxed, and not some tiny window that looks like you're watching it on youtube (I assume).

albert

[Class316]

I don't have time/energy to browse the forums and the web so I'll just ask: is Fantasia 2000 coming as a separate release on Blu-ray at some point? I did notice artwork for a separate dvd release.

Anyway, I got Fantasia on Blu-ray and it looks magnificent. Animation is crisp and stunning and the live action segments are so clear it's almost as if you'll see it for the first time.

Best Blu-ray release since Sleeping Beauty.

I don't know how you can give it such praise considering they didn't release it intact.

[yamiiguy]

Of course I don't own every Disney title. But the live action films that I do own (albeit the popular ones like Mary Poppins) seem pretty good to me. Of course I can name labels that put as much effort in such as Eureka's Masters of Cinema label.

The reason the SD Bonus Features are in a box is due to the HD resolution of the TV or something like that. When I put a PS2 game in my PS3 it plays in a box (though I can upscale it to fullscreen with varying quality).

I think the problem about this release is the fact that Disney said that we would be getting a Diamond Edition with the 2006 shorts etc. and they failed to deliver. I am disappointed with this release but it's a good release nonetheless. It just feels like we were getting cake and given a cookie.

[2099net]

I think people are being unfair regarding Disney and Blu-ray. (I'll admit, their past and current attitude to DVD leaves much to be desired).

Firstly, Disney/BVHE has not (admittedly to my knowledge) ever passed off a substandard transfer on a Blu-ray disc. (Unlike their frequent re-use of older Laserdisc transfers in their early - and even later - days of DVD).

I know some of you will be thinking about the much scorned initial release of "Gangs of New York" - but remember Disney doesn't own that film 100% - its got different distributors worldwide. Much like Paramount got the blame for the initial "Gladiator" Blu-ray disc made from assets provided by Universal, its more than possible Disney never had access to the assets for "Gangs of New York" themselves.

Disney did indeed leave off lots of DVD bonus features from their initial Blu-ray releases (the ones with the "swoosh" packaging). But these were BD25s with MPEG-2 encoding and uncompressed PCM soundtracks if I recall correctly.

Since those days, Disney has been remarkably consistent when porting over supplements. Sure, some (perhaps even most) discs don't have everything, but that's true of other studios too.

And in some cases, I can understand why. If you create a new HD supplement, there's little point in keeping the previous DVD one, which will duplicate most of the same information, just with a different presentation.

While Warners Oz and Gone With The Wind Blu-rays may be a treasure trove of supplements, they haven't really created anything new. Even the restoration feature on the Oz release is for a generation before the Blu-ray restoration. Couldn't Warners be described as just as "lazy" as Disney?

Fox may have done well with Alien Anthology and Multi-disc sets like The Sound of Music, but they still left stuff of their Rocky Horror Picture Show single disc Blu-ray. I'm fine with that, because the pricing was fair.

I think there's a fine line when presenting a beloved film on Blu-ray. You have to provide value to justify a repurchase and to do that, you have to provide something new if possible as well as a new transfer and/or restoration. Shoveling out the same old features doesn't quite cut-it in my book. If something has to be sacrificed, sacrifice the old supplements.

Of course, when it comes to Fantasia/Fantasia 2000 its not so simple. I 110% believe they could easily fit all of the DVD supplements on the respective Blu-ray disc. I'll admit not doing so is wrong - even if they all couldn't fit, at least they could have put the longer "making of" documentaries on disc and left the smaller introductions and comparisons to stream over the internet. It was wrong not to do so.

But, in all honesty, I cannot condemn the set as a rip-off. Or as Disney being lazy. I paid £15.99 for A Christmas Carol the same week as I paid £17.99 for my double-pack. To me, that's a bargain.

The films are a delight. Fantasia really does look unlike you have ever seen it before. It sounds unlike you've ever heard it before too. Yes, you may "expect" this on the Blu-ray format - but I also "expect" to pay much more money for two popular films than I paid.

In addition, you still get a significant amount of supplements, including a new commentary and a feature length documentary.

It seems to me, most of the people complaining about the lack of supplements already own the previous Fantasia Legacy set and thus own the missing supplements. I know that's not true of everybody, but I'm sure it is for some - perhaps the majority of the complainers.

Really, the only complaints should be aimed at Disney for releasing such a poor set for DVD owners, who do get virtually nothing over the OOP originals. Less supplements. Higher price point (as they are basically paying for the Blu-rays in the package) and improvements in picture and sound are likely to be minimal.

I'm sure a lot of DVD only owners read some of the complaints about the Blu-rays and think of us as nothing but spoiled, angry little children.

[PatrickvD]

I don't have time/energy to browse the forums and the web so I'll just ask: is Fantasia 2000 coming as a separate release on Blu-ray at some point? I did notice artwork for a separate dvd release.

Anyway, I got Fantasia on Blu-ray and it looks magnificent. Animation is crisp and stunning and the live action segments are so clear it's almost as if you'll see it for the first time.

Best Blu-ray release since Sleeping Beauty.

I don't know how you can give it such praise considering they didn't release it intact.

I don't know how you can quote my entire post and not answer my question. Rude.

[jsz1002]

I think people are being unfair regarding Disney and Blu-ray. (I'll admit, their past and current attitude to DVD leaves much to be desired).

Firstly, Disney/BVHE has not (admittedly to my knowledge) ever passed off a substandard transfer on a Blu-ray disc. (Unlike their frequent re-use of older Laserdisc transfers in their early - and even later - days of DVD).

I know some of you will be thinking about the much scorned initial release of "Gangs of New York" - but remember Disney doesn't own that film 100% - its got different distributors worldwide. Much like Paramount got the blame for the initial "Gladiator" Blu-ray disc made from assets provided by Universal, its more than possible Disney never had access to the assets for "Gangs of New York" themselves.

Disney did indeed leave off lots of DVD bonus features from their initial Blu-ray releases (the ones with the "swoosh" packaging). But these were BD25s with MPEG-2 encoding and uncompressed PCM soundtracks if I recall correctly.

Since those days, Disney has been remarkably consistent when porting over supplements. Sure, some (perhaps even most) discs don't have everything, but that's true of other studios too.

And in some cases, I can understand why. If you create a new HD supplement, there's little point in keeping the previous DVD one, which will duplicate most of the same information, just with a different presentation.

While Warners Oz and Gone With The Wind Blu-rays may be a treasure trove of supplements, they haven't really created anything new. Even the restoration feature on the Oz release is for a generation before the Blu-ray restoration. Couldn't Warners be described as just as "lazy" as Disney?

Fox may have done well with Alien Anthology and Multi-disc sets like The Sound of Music, but they still left stuff of their Rocky Horror Picture Show single disc Blu-ray. I'm fine with that, because the pricing was fair.

I think there's a fine line when presenting a beloved film on Blu-ray. You have to provide value to justify a repurchase and to do that, you have to provide something new if possible as well as a new transfer and/or restoration. Shoveling out the same old features doesn't quite cut-it in my book. If something has to be sacrificed, sacrifice the old supplements.

Of course, when it comes to Fantasia/Fantasia 2000 its not so simple. I 110% believe they could easily fit all of the DVD supplements on the respective Blu-ray disc. I'll admit not doing so is wrong - even if they all couldn't fit, at least they could have put the longer "making of" documentaries on disc and left the smaller introductions and comparisons to stream over the internet. It was wrong not to do so.

But, in all honesty, I cannot condemn the set as a rip-off. Or as Disney being lazy. I paid £15.99 for A Christmas Carol the same week as I paid £17.99 for my double-pack. To me, that's a bargain.

The films are a delight. Fantasia really does look unlike you have ever seen it before. It sounds unlike you've ever heard it before too. Yes, you may "expect" this on the Blu-ray format - but I also "expect" to pay much more money for two popular films than I paid.

In addition, you still get a significant amount of supplements, including a new commentary and a feature length documentary.

It seems to me, most of the people complaining about the lack of supplements already own the previous Fantasia Legacy set and thus own the missing supplements. I know that's not true of everybody, but I'm sure it is for some - perhaps the majority of the complainers.

Really, the only complaints should be aimed at Disney for releasing such a poor set for DVD owners, who do get virtually nothing over the OOP originals. Less supplements. Higher price point (as they are basically paying for the Blu-rays in the package) and improvements in picture and sound are likely to be minimal.

I'm sure a lot of DVD only owners read some of the complaints about the Blu-rays and think of us as nothing but spoiled, angry little children.

The only complaint I have is the missing "new" shorts that were created around the time of Destino. What could possibly be the reason for leaving them off other than to try to milk another release out later on?

[BK]

There is no defense. They dropped the ball majorly with Fantasia.

People ignore my post in the other thread which shows that Disney only released 10 movies that are catalogue titles this year. Most of them had mediocre transfers and depleted features.

With their main releases, all animation obviously since Disney think that having them means they can ignore their everything else, BATB dropped features and again screwed with the original theatrical cut, screw colours, they didn't have the right scenes. With Fantasia/2000 it's worse than Aristocats/Tarzan re-releases and there is so much space on the disc. With Toy Story 1/2 they again dropped features.

What's even more annoying is the fact that Toy Story 1/2 had more of a packed release than Up/Toy Story 3 but only got 1 disc, so if they had 2, there would be no reason to not include features. Up's release is pathetic really and TS3 has the film again on disc 2. Stupidity.

You mention you don't want to see recycled material? The news here buddy is that because Disney continuously make their DVDs for a limited time only, not everyone actually got to see it. Fantasia/2000 went OOP, what, 7-8 years ago? Not to mention it was a packed set sold at an expensive price. Not many people would have it. If the material before covered everything already and it did it well, or other aspects that the new features did not touch upon, they SHOULD be on the disc.

This is Disney, after all, you KNOW from past experience they drop features for no reason so I have no idea how any defense can be made. I didn't know that Sound of Music or whatever recycled everything but if they did a good job before there's no reason to do it again considering they may have covered everything that is relevant and interesting. The main selling point for many of those older titles is the new transfer obviously considering age and etc. BATB does not need to be restored at all. They purposely made it go OOP fast so if they are going to reissue it they need something to entice us with. If Disney decided to really put effort into their discs and make a stellar complete one (At the time) then they wouldn't have to waste any money making new features that turn out to be not as good as the first and really now with all the voice talent, artists and etc aging, how much more can you update Snow White or Fantasia? They are purposely not putting things in because they deliberately want to squeeze money from you.

Yes, all studios do that, but Disney basically do that with the only 12 titles they actually decide to treat semi-well. So whilst you have other studios just double/triple dipping on any movie in their catalogue but with either actual additions or additions that are not necessary so they don't actually get that much more revenue anyway, Disney are pimping 12 titles and only 12 since they haven't released anything else worthy, and yet they don't or purposely screw you over with them. They are the worst of the lot.

[BK]

Just to clarify, other studios don't seem like they actually plan to screw you over, they release something and months/years later they decide to double dip and try and throw in something to get people to buy it.

Disney seem to plan to screw you over by purposely excluding things.

[The_Iceflash]

To think I thought I was buying Fantasia and Fantasia 2000 for Fantasia and Fantasia 2000. You would think a new and improved transfer would be motivation enough.

[BK]

To think I thought I was buying Fantasia and Fantasia 2000 for Fantasia and Fantasia 2000. You would think a new and improved transfer would be motivation enough.

You're missing the point.

Of course you're buying the movies for the movies, but there's a reason why they created special features, especially because they've already tried to sell the movie once before.

When you go ahead and promise everything under the sun when in reality you can't and don't deliver anything people have the right to complain. Misleading information, false advertising etc.

I don't understand people who say we should be happy the transfers are good or even worse, we should be happy they released it. Which part of they are EXPECTED to be good don't you get? Who goes into a store to buy a DVD that has a lousy transfer? As you said yourself, you are buying it for the movie, so OBVIOUSLY the movie has to have had a decent transfer; it's like buying eggs and being happy that the yolk is inside. I know it does happen that some transfers suck, and that's when people complain and the studio admitting it reissues them, look at Gangs of New York/Gladiator etc. WHY? Because it is EXPECTED that the transfer is good.

So, obviously the next step, is for people who watch/want features to be satisfied. You may not care but people do and that's why they are there so when promises are not kept obviously people complain. When there is no reason to drop features or keep it for a later date, people complain.

As the last thing I will say for now, region-wise, DVDs were also not the same. The UK release of Fantasia was infinitely worse than the US so people may actually want to get a proper release not another half-baked excuse they've experienced before. You factor in the shoddy product they put on the shelves in Asia, other European countries, Latin America etc and there is a huge market that they have FAILED to satisfy because they already FAILED once before. Not everyone owns the previous features obviously.

[Prince Edward]

Got my Fantasia and Fantasia 2000 Blu-ray collection in the mail today:) Have not watched it yet though... I am planning to save it (and the Beauty and the Beast release as well!) for X-mas^^