The 'Worst' Disney Film Opening Ever

[Lazario]

I'll put in a defense for 'Sleeping Beauty' for a change, as I saw the DVD recently and was utterly charmed by parts of it. Colour-wise I think it's excellent, and the scenes with Maleficent are particularly beautiful. It works wonderfully with the Tchaikovsky score as well. The atmosphere that Lazario describes, I have to admit, I don't see - but the film as a whole has grown on me. That said, I don't think that the script's many faults add to the style and I don't think that improving the writing would have compromised the art of the film. No way is the film under-appreciated - it's divisive.

I don't believe it's smart in the case of this film to separate the writing from the style, etc. They are meant to work together, so the importance of this one element becomes secondary to the integration of all.

It is divisive, we all know this. But that does not mean that everyone who finds it weak saw it / felt it for what it really was. If I can't prove anyone who disagrees with me wrong, you sure can't argue I'm wrong to say a lot of people don't get it. I didn't sit watching this movie wondering why it wouldn't follow a more standard Disney formula/format. I went wherever it took me and I noticed that it's not playing simple emotions or story. You don't have to be happy for someone who is happy or sad when someone is sad. There's something else going on. I don't have a fancy education, so I can't call in a lot of special research. But I still felt it; there is nothing wrong with the film not being clear and identifiable. I found that the movie isn't a slave to simple happy or sad. I've heard people say this other sense in the artwork and music I'm talking about is: spiritual, celestial, or cosmic. But the fact is; the animation-with-music-etc(.) really takes you very far away from the kingdom and the characters, and combines different worlds together without needing to indicate that someone is dreaming before blasting off into place and time - that's what I'm talking about when I say it's not deep story; it's sensory depth. It's not as heady as Fantasia, but it damn well tries to be.

In Cinderella, the only moment comparable to the three wishes scene is when she sings "Oh, Sing Sweet Nightingale" and she's in the bubbles. Aurora is not featured within the fantasy imagery that is mapping out her fate in the beginning of the movie. And every character in the movie is shown to live somewhere cold or secluded, through layers and layers of dark nature or the hard rock castles. And very few characters are legitimately happy (perhaps the too-perky peppiness of the fairies is an actual flaw- I would admit to that if I heard someone mention it). Hell- at this point, since I've already admitted that the joyous aspects of the story are not really that joyous, that makes things like Maleficent not being as forceful onscreen as the Old Hag or Lady Tremaine fit into the movie's framework all the better. "Good and evil" as forces (not deeds) were treated equally. But I still never saw either as being undernourished. Just fed different food.

[Super Aurora]

I found it more childish that you seems to take it in so personally that I (or anyone for the matter) disapprove of something in SB. The way you sees things isn't way I see things and thus its seem you're giving the impression that "your interpretation" is superior and correct over mine.

But in case you're wondering or didn't realize, I do not hate Sleeping Beauty. In fact I love many bits about it that I did love. But that won't hold me down from criticizing parts that I did find in the movie.

You seems to imply that if you like something, you must like every bits about it.

No- that's not what bothers me. You're reading this completely wrong. It's that in your responses, you didn't give a thought to: maybe the scene was trying something different. You didn't spend a second looking beneath the surface. You were taking it for granted. That just because the scene in question looked like one thing, that it couldn't possibly have another meaning to it.

I can appreciate someone with a differing opinion. But how can I value the opinion of someone who seems to be preaching conformity? That's eliminating the possibility that there's more than one way to do something. That's the only reason why I'm taking this personally- I can't believe you could be the person you seem to be in this instance.

Especially on an issue such as a scene of joy over a baby's birth. Perhaps a Disney movie, for once, decided to go anti-Bambi. Babies are born all the time- we don't need to indulge in the moment to know it means a lot to the story / characters. The lyrics communicated that all by themselves. I say the film decided to use this scene instead to show us the world, the style, and get us prepared for the grave, emotionally detached feel to the movie with a scene that is emotionally detached from the getgo.

If you don't like it, that's one thing. But I feel you're misrepresenting it. That's why I haven't just let it go.

Now you're more clear in what you are asking. I apologize for misreading you. But if that's the case, and assuming the interpretation you made is correct, I fail to see that no matter how many times I seen. or It fail to address that message or artistic intentions to audience, even insightful ones like myself. It seems not only me but Magic Mirror as he admits and JPanimation also don't see this. So I dunno what more you could ask out of us.

[Disney Duster]

In Cinderella, the only moment comparable to the three wishes scene is when she sings "Oh, Sing Sweet Nightingale" and she's in the bubbles.

What about So This is Love? Or even some of Bibbidi Bobbidi Boo?

Anyway, so what do you mean by "sensory depth"? If it is hard to explain, that is fine, because I think film captures feelings and things that are hard to explain, and not everything in life is or should be easy to explain. But if you can, that'd be cool.

Are you saying you think the film is a masterpiece of this? One thing I have wanted to say for the longest time is that Sleeping Beauty is a masterpiece of art like Fantasia and ballet.

Both Fantasia and ballet rely more on visuals and music, and they don't have much story or dialogue. Or am I wrong, and they actually do have lots of story, and often better crafted stories than Disney's version of Sleeping Beauty?

Because Disney's Sleeping Beauty is very much adapted from the ballet, I think this makes lots of sense. I mean, Sleeping Beauty has many instances of dancing and just looking at how beautiful everything is.

Perhaps this is one of the problems. Sleeping Beauty combines story and dialogue with dialogueless and storyless artforms? But another question is, could they have done this and made it work better?

However, the main thing is...is what Sleeping Beauty does, or is about, really hitting and effecting the audience to make it a truly great film, to be one of the best films made? For some yes, for others no?

[Linden]

I think the worst opening has to be Pete's Dragon. I sat in shock watching it. And whoever said it before, I'm sure the villains' song does say volumes, but it's executed horribly. It is so forced and slapstick-y. The boy who plays Pete lacks anything resembling charisma, and Elliot is a pain for me to watch. It does set the tone for the rest of the film brilliantly, though. It's a warning: "Stay away from me!" That, however, is simply my opinion. If you do like Pete's Dragon, don't take offense.

I also agree that the opening for Lilo & Stitch is terrible. The aliens are really ugly, and the whole opening just fails to suck you in.

[Lazario]

I think the worst opening has to be Pete's Dragon. I sat in shock watching it. And whoever said it before, I'm sure the villains' song does say volumes, but it's executed horribly. It is so forced and slapstick-y.

Well, it is a bit of a spoof on hillbillies... post-Deliverance. Forced? This is Disney, remember. They don't need prodding to go into goofball territory. Or, how quickly have you forgotten their films with Dick Van Dyke or Tim Conway? After them, Shelley Winters (and don't forget, she'd been doing low-budget hag-slasher and blaxploitation films for almost a decade before she got this swell job).

Is it in bad taste? Sure, but so is a lot of Disney. But I think most people will tell you that if you cut before those freaky closeups of the Gogan family's faces, it works pretty darn well. Not that I care about that usually, but I'm just saying... I'll agree it's goofy. But sometimes Disney went that way. Especially, yeah in this film. Of course, I didn't see you say the film itself was seriously flawed. I would have to agree with you there. At least, the musical numbers are pretty bad. My first clue was that big barroom thing. When they started climbing the barrels, I imagine my reaction was a lot like yours in this scene.

and Elliot is a pain for me to watch.

Aw- he was fun. Though again, I suppose watching it again could change my mind.

It does set the tone for the rest of the film brilliantly, though. It's a warning: "Stay away from me!" That, however, is simply my opinion. If you do like Pete's Dragon, don't take offense.

No chance of that. I love that the camera angles throughout the entire film keep bringing us back to those nasty closeups from like extreme low angles. Especially during the Dr. Terminus song about dragon parts.

I will say this one thing to you - What kind of like Fellini / Truffaut / Godard-ian type stuff do you think Disney made? They were not a very classy studio, all things considered. Any one could take any person in any film and call them a pain or lacking charisma. I'm not offended- I just think you're being funny.

[Tangled]

Either Lilo and Stitch or Princess and the Frog

For best opening either Lion king or Beauty and the Beast.

[SmartAleck25]

Either Lilo and Stitch or Princess and the Frog

For best opening either Lion king or Beauty and the Beast.

The Princess and the Frog? I think that the opening is very beautiful, calm, and elegant, and Anika Noni Rose's vocals fit the setting perfectly. I thought it was really sweet, and made me feel like I was watching something like The Little Mermaid's opening again. Then again, that's just me. Not sure how you feel. But it'd be interesting to hear your thoughts on why you dislike it.
Now Lilo and Stitch I haven't seen in forever, but I remember it being a rather good opening, despite all the scientific mumbo jumbo, but the second it switched to Lilo's class I knew that I was watching true Disney. My memory's not too sharp on that one.

Agree with you on Lion King. Nothing beats that. I also love BatB's elegance of the paintings, and the chilling sensation you got from David Ogden Stier's voice.

[Lazario]

In Cinderella, the only moment comparable to the three wishes scene is when she sings "Oh, Sing Sweet Nightingale" and she's in the bubbles.

What about So This is Love? Or even some of Bibbidi Bobbidi Boo?

No- all Disney movies have moments like that. But, what I meant is that they never left their natural surroundings. When they did, they were still in every shot- every wavy or watery moment in Cinderella was a dissolve from or into a shot with the characters in it. Plus, Sleeping Beauty begins with all the singing which doesn't come from the characters. Aurora and Phillip, I believe, are the only characters who sing any songs. The rest of the songs are sung by an outside chorus. Which means the story itself is really floating out in a free space. Sometimes, the force making it spin is the safe one and sometimes it's the dangerous one. Consider the scene of the Fairies watching Aurora. She's safe, right? ...Wrong. Because they don't know Maleficent is watching her too. Then, Maleficent is watching Phillip. But she doesn't know the Fairies are also there. Then, consider the music that leads us into both turns of the story. As Aurora walks to the castle with the Fairies, I felt a strange melancholy from the camera movement. It felt grave and got heavier until the scene where she becomes possessed and it hits a boiling point of chilling terror. Then, as the Fairies go to Maleficent's castle, the music is grave at the start of the scene and slowly seems to get lighter somehow. As we know the adventure scene is probably coming. It's mounting. But at what point will it explode? (When the raven flies into frame- always gave me a little jump as a kid.)

Anyway, so what do you mean by "sensory depth"?

Their attempt to try and use the art to heighten awareness of the environment, mood, or implications of the celestial/cosmic over strict story and characterization. The backgrounds, music, etc(.) will usually be more lively than the story or characters. Some people may call these elements weak... Perhaps Disney just decided the animation and music would tell enough of a story on their own. I think they just filled the gaps until they almost overflowed. But I also think the whole thing stays well in-check. I don't think anything was too numb or too over-the-top.

Are you saying you think the film is a masterpiece of this?

I think probably every film has some kind of flaw somewhere about it. But, yes, I've said Sleeping Beauty is one of Disney's best animated films for sure. In the past. And is as close to a masterpiece as almost any other. I even used to think it was the studio's best film of all-time, period (now that's easily Dumbo in my estimation).

Because Disney's Sleeping Beauty is very much adapted from the ballet, I think this makes lots of sense. I mean, Sleeping Beauty has many instances of dancing and just looking at how beautiful everything is. Perhaps this is one of the problems. Sleeping Beauty combines story and dialogue with dialogueless and storyless artforms? But another question is, could they have done this and made it work better? However, the main thing is...is what Sleeping Beauty does, or is about, really hitting and effecting the audience to make it a truly great film, to be one of the best films made? For some yes, for others no?

I don't know anything about the ballet. Nor do I know anything about gothic this, that, or the other thing. I don't usually know one thing comes from- I just try to follow where it goes. And for me - every age, every mood I've been in, every time I've seen the film - I've found exactly what I've indicated here. That there is a powerful, potent underlying vibe of unpredictable magic and devious, formless evil. It's a moody movie for moody people.

[DisneyFan09]

Thanks for honoring my thread

While most of the Disney flicks have good openings, I must say that I've never been fond of the opening of Mulan. I've never liked the calligraphy opening, its extremly boring. I would prefer if they started to show the Great Wall right away.

[stitchje1981]

Thanks for honoring my thread

While most of the Disney flicks have good openings, I must say that I've never been fond of the opening of Mulan. I've never liked the calligraphy opening, its extremly boring. I would prefer if they started to show the Great Wall right away.

I kinda like that opening with the music as well, easy mood before the action starts on a dark night

[Disney Duster]

What about So This is Love? Or even some of Bibbidi Bobbidi Boo?

No- all Disney movies have moments like that.

I wouldn't agree with that. Of course, it depends on what you mean by the word "comparable" or "like" and in what ways. If you mean abstract and surreal or heady magical, then I definately don't agree with that.

In "So This is Love", there actually is a scene where you do not see the characters. It is when Cinderella dips her hand into the fountain, and makes the shimmer in the water look like stars, that dissolve into what looks like another world. Then, out of the mist in that world, Cindy and the Prince appear, dancing. That is something like what you were talking about. It was always one of my favorite parts, too.

In Sleeping Beauty...you forgot that the people of the kingdom sing "Hail to Aurora". Also, in many Disney movies, mainly the Walt ones, there is a powerful feeling that comes from choruses singing. Not all, but a lot. But I will admit, Sleeping Beauty uses it perhaps the most next to Bambi (which is completely only chorus-sung) and maybe some other I'm thinking. Cinderella does use it a lot, too.

I'm just saying this dreamy outside forces thing has been in other films, to great effect, mainly a film with magic/another world. But yes, Sleeping Beauty uses it perhaps the most, to a heightened effect.

It's very interesting thinking that the forces of good and evil are watching all the action, taking form in the fairies. But also in Cinderella, it feels like a force of good, in the form of the fairy godmother is watching over everything, at least once she makes her appearence.

But the thing is...when Flora said "even walls have ears", I thought that she meant anyone could be listening, most especially the people of the kingdom, all of which were there, because they were burning the spinning wheels. I actually thought of some townsperson overhearing, and accidentally letting people know or even perhaps being a rather bad person and telling everyone. I didn't necessarily feel it was Maleficent overhearing by magical forces. I thought it was just a safety precaution.

If Maleficent really could overhear them who knows how far away, by magic, I don't see what would stop her from hearing them when they are small and in a box. If that really stops her, I can believe it, but it still doesn't seem very sure of what bounds her magic has.

However, I agree about the music when Aurora is taken to the castle, while I'm not sure about the music being lighter when the fairies go to Forbidden Mountain.

It would be cool, and great, if the music was telling the rest of the story that people needed. Maybe it is, and we never realized. I don't know. I myself never had a problem with Sleeping Beauty, it was a favorite of mine, just not my most favorite. But I think I have figured out something. It's style and classicness is also like a coldness and distance that makes it hard for people to feel for the characters or generally the whole thing. It's not warm, so how can people warm up to it? However, so many people love it today, so...maybe what they were trying to do did come through.

Maybe Dumbo is the best Disney film. I think I'd be okay with that. Walt wouldn't though. He was mad that it was a greater success than the animal project he really cared about, Bambi.

[Linden]

Well, it is a bit of a spoof on hillbillies... post-Deliverance. Forced? This is Disney, remember. They don't need prodding to go into goofball territory. Or, how quickly have you forgotten their films with Dick Van Dyke or Tim Conway? After them, Shelley Winters (and don't forget, she'd been doing low-budget hag-slasher and blaxploitation films for almost a decade before she got this swell job).

Is it in bad taste? Sure, but so is a lot of Disney.

I will say this one thing to you - What kind of like Fellini / Truffaut / Godard-ian type stuff do you think Disney made? They were not a very classy studio, all things considered. Any one could take any person in any film and call them a pain or lacking charisma. I'm not offended- I just think you're being funny.

Okay, you have a point, Lazario. I agree, I have seen worse Disney movies, and they did make numerous stinkers. I was trying to think of the worst opening of a fairly well-loved Disney film. And since Pete's Dragon was recently re-released on DVD (it was, right?), I figured it fit into the category. So, to restate: "Of the popular Disney films, Pete's Dragon has one of the worst openings."

and Elliot is a pain for me to watch.

Aw- he was fun. Though again, I suppose watching it again could change my mind.

I didn't enjoy him at all. Maybe if I had seen it as a kid, it would have been different. His "voice", especially, was very irritating.

No chance of that. I love that the camera angles throughout the entire film keep bringing us back to those nasty closeups from like extreme low angles. Especially during the Dr. Terminus song about dragon parts.

I forgot about that guy. Yeah, he was easily the best part about the movie. I was just confused about him the whole time. I thought he looked like the picture of Helen Reddy's love interest and was waiting expectantly for the time when she would figure out that her fiancee was a miracle cure salesman. If only that had happened, the movie would have been so much better...

[ajmrowland]

Tangled

oh wait, you mean Opening *Scene*? er............................chicken little