Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney

[disneyftw1]

Oh I'm sorry. I didn't know.

It's all good!

... (sigh) The times, they really are a-changing...

[Marky_198]

I was watching a documentary today "The making of Snow White".
Charles Solomon, a Disney historian speaks about the way animation evolved up until Snow White.
He says: "The medium of animation still lacked technical sophistication. Up until then, animated characters had largely been just these sort of rubber-limbed, Asexual creatures".

Though these movies, such as the "Silly Symphonies series" and "Betty Boop" were all needed to finally get to the point of the sophisticated Snow White. It was a process.

I think we can compare all the 3d animation that we have seen so far, to the Silly Symphonies and Betty Boop. Hopefully, someday, they will get to the point of a breakthrough again, like they did with Snow White.
The way he described the films before Snow White is exactly how we could decribe the characters in CGI films of today. Rubber-limbed, Asexual creatures.

Because until animation looks like these examples (see below) or better, they still have a long way to go.





Compared to this:

[Walter]

Although really the best way for Disney to consider doing another 2D handdrawn feature is if someone else does ala Don Bluth. And there are plenty of other studios doing 2D animation, too. One day it will be awakened again; the slump is only temporary. That's what I think.

I would agree with this, though I predict the next 2D film will be from the likes of The Simpsons, Family Guy, or Archer.

It's sad that there are none in the near future, but I've accepted that and moved on. In the meantime, just have to hope that Disney will continue to make entertaining animated films.

[GreatGreg]

I don't think animation has to be life-like. In fact, its strength lies in the very fact that it is an abstraction of reality.

Movies and films tell a story. They are meant to entertain, and if it means stretching the truth or taking an artistic license, they are at liberty to do so.

If I want a realistic-looking Rapunzel, then I will wait for the live-action feature, or the Broadway play. Just because CGI may look more life-like, doesn't mean that it will be better.

STAR WARS would be awfully boring if you couldn't hear explosions in space.

[Marky_198]

I don't think animation has to be life-like. In fact, its strength lies in the very fact that it is an abstraction of reality.

Just because CGI may look more life-like, doesn't mean that it will be better.

Exactly. That is why this form of animation (with the current CGI characters) is cutting itself in the fingers, because the materials look too life-like. Real hair, real rubber, etc. The more realistic the materials look, the more it takes away from the animation.

Because they will either look like realistic dolls, or like real human beings. And to avoid the latter, they exaggerate the characters features to a point they look like aliens. Alien dolls.

For example, the Rapunzel pics I posted above. Although her skin in the upper pic does not look as tangible, rubbery, or like real material, it works better. Realistic looking "materials" only distract in animation. Realistic character designs is a different story. Those work well, as long as the materials don't look real.

[DisneyEra]

I Sent Steve Hulett a question message earlier asking about Walt Disney Feature Animation releasing a film in 2015. His reply: No idea.

After Big hero 6 next year it could be another 2 years before a new WDAS film is released. What do you all think?

[Semaj]

Oh boy...

[TsWade2]

I don't think it has to do with whether Lasseter likes hand-drawn animation or not. I'm sure he does. He just doesn't believe that the medium can be financially viable anymore. He did what he thought would be best for the studio's profitability (and for his career in the long run). He's not willing to take a risk by letting the studio produce more 2D features. I don't think Iger is solely to blame; Lasseter also has a part in this. He could have fought harder for the medium or at least given it a second chance. He could have kept Frozen in 2D, for example, as it was originally envisioned. Instead he completely gave up on the medium after The Princess and the Frog underperformed, ignoring all the other possible reasons why the film wasn't financially successful. That's why I don't think we'll get a 2D feature even after Iger leaves the company.

I don't think that is altogether true; I'm sure Disney will try at least one more 2D feature, but any future handdrawn animated feature will probably be in the style of Paperman. And frankly, I'd be OK with that. And it's not like they're completely done with handdrawn animation either; their TV shows are still doing it and there are the Mickey Mouse shorts, too. That doesn't sound like totally giving up on handdrawn animation altogether.

Although really the best way for Disney to consider doing another 2D handdrawn feature is if someone else does ala Don Bluth. And there are plenty of other studios doing 2D animation, too. One day it will be awakened again; the slump is only temporary. That's what I think.

Speaking of Don Bluth, I heard that he's trying to make a 2D movie version of his video game Dragon's Lair. But sadly right now, it's in development hell. Here's what it looks like.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6em4GRiRY0[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tI-RFEY3bTY[/youtube]

[MJW]

I Sent Steve Hulett a question message earlier asking about Walt Disney Feature Animation releasing a film in 2015. His reply: No idea.

After Big hero 6 next year it could be another 2 years before a new WDAS film is released. What do you all think?

I think WDAS has gotten back to a point now where they'll release one film a year. Wasn't there a quote a few pages back saying that WDAS management wanted to do one film a year that that production periods are now overlapping? With DreamWorks pumping out two films a year, and most of the other studios doing at least one a year, I doubt WDAS would want to "fall behind."

[DisneyJedi]

I happened to come across this post from a friend of mine on Tumblr:

I don’t really agree with this statement that much at all. The biggest problem so many people have with CGI animation is the fact that so many of those types of films after a while all start looking the same with very little deviations in terms of original artstyle. With traditional animation, the artists are given more creative freedom to express various forms of art-styles and creativity through that medium.
This is why animation purists and lovers of traditional animation dislike the idea of Disney axing their 2D department. Its what created their legacy. Many people consider traditional a dying artform and with Disney axing that department altogether, many lovers of the medium are worried that the artform is going to die out altogether.

Source: http://movieland-ridenour.tumblr.com/po ... ng-sick-of

[JTurner]

I happened to come across this post from a friend of mine on Tumblr:

I don’t really agree with this statement that much at all. The biggest problem so many people have with CGI animation is the fact that so many of those types of films after a while all start looking the same with very little deviations in terms of original artstyle. With traditional animation, the artists are given more creative freedom to express various forms of art-styles and creativity through that medium.
This is why animation purists and lovers of traditional animation dislike the idea of Disney axing their 2D department. Its what created their legacy. Many people consider traditional a dying artform and with Disney axing that department altogether, many lovers of the medium are worried that the artform is going to die out altogether.

Source: http://movieland-ridenour.tumblr.com/po ... ng-sick-of

The line between "axing" and "laying off" is starting to become a bit too murky. If the handdrawn animation department is "axed", then why are we still getting a new Mickey Mouse handdrawn short? Didn't the studio ever explicitly say they were done with it? All that Iger ever said was that they don't have any in the pipes at this time, which isn't the same as "axing it."

I agree, though, handdrawn animation is a style that really should not be ruled out. I prefer it much more to the CGI animated films of today.

So, the writer of this piece tries to suggest that Disney is not abandoning 2D animation despite the layoffs but the quote from Andrew Millstein used to support this claim is almost irrelevant. He's not commenting on the status of 2D animation at the studio at all.

Life at the studio hasn't been all Disneyland smiles — last month, as part of a wider restructuring at its corporate parent, the animation studio laid off fewer than 10 people out of a staff of more than 800. Because some were 2-D animators, there was speculation on some animation blogs that the studio was abandoning its commitment to that art form, an idea Millstein dismissed.

"There's natural ebb and flow within an organization like ours," he said. "We have a deep cross-section of artists at our studio — hand-drawn artists, CG artists, software technologists who understand what's gone into our 2-D. We have deep, deep capabilities."

Source: http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/mo ... .htmlstory

The quote WAS vague, I agree. But when I actually read that article in context, I began to realize that, yet again, this was being blown out of proportion. Then I also saw John Lasseter's quote saying that "the more successful we can be, the more they [the bosses] will allow them to do what they want." Meaning that after they've proven a string of successes, they'll try another handdrawn... or at least that's what I got from it.

[TsWade2]

I happened to come across this post from a friend of mine on Tumblr:
Source: http://movieland-ridenour.tumblr.com/po ... ng-sick-of

The line between "axing" and "laying off" is starting to become a bit too murky. If the handdrawn animation department is "axed", then why are we still getting a new Mickey Mouse handdrawn short? Didn't the studio ever explicitly say they were done with it? All that Iger ever said was that they don't have any in the pipes at this time, which isn't the same as "axing it."

Well, you know what they say,

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxeuVQEdt-w[/youtube]

LOL! I always wanted to post this.

[Sotiris]

You can cross out another veteran 2D animator from WDAS' staff. After finishing his work on Wreck-It Ralph, Bruce W. Smith was transferred to DisneyToon Studios where he's currently working on several 'Fly-By' shorts for the movie Planes.

[JTurner]

You can cross out another veteran 2D animator from WDAS' staff. After finishing his work on Wreck-It Ralph, Bruce W. Smith was transferred to DisneyToon Studios where he's currently working on several 'Fly-By' shorts for the movie Planes.

But technically that means he's still "working" at Disney (albeit the DisneyToons unit), so that doesn't really count IMO.

[Sotiris]

Nik Ranieri, one of the veteran 2D animators who was laid-off from WDAS, has expressed his thoughts on leaving Disney and commented on the status of 2D animation at the studio. It seems it was internally announced that the studio would stop producing any more hand-drawn features.

It has been several weeks since my last Animator page posting. As you’re probably all well aware by now, I no longer work for The Walt Disney Company. June 10th was my last day. In October of this year, it would have been 25 years. Disney was my home for the last quarter century and I’ll always be grateful for the people I worked with and the experience I gained there. The last couple of years have been the most difficult of my career. At times I was filled with hope that my skills would be utilized in a new hand-drawn film. At other times, I doubted that a hand-drawn feature – hybrid or otherwise – would be produced at all. We were pretty much kept in the dark for over 2 years and once the word did come out that no more hand-drawn features would be produced, it was only a matter of days before we were “given our notices”. I’m not so much sad that I was let go as I am sad that they gave up on a medium that, if given the right treatment, could be a viable product once again. You may wonder, what will I be doing now. I can't tell you that because I don't know. [...]

Source: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=577194715665934r (via Cartoon Brew)


Also, a few months ago Nik Ranieri posted this video of Lasseter praising 2D animation on his Facebook page with the title "Interesting words". Of course, this video was taken before The Princess and the Frog was released. Here's what Nik had to say.

Well, all kidding aside, I'm not here to bash Lasseter. As Kevin says, "There are stockholders to listen to" and CEO's to appease. Still, it's sad to me that after a speech like this, they gave up on hand-drawn after only one film, which they kept saying was not a failure, it just didn't make the kind of money they had hoped. Frog was a good film and a good springboard to reintroduce the public to hand-drawn features. So, instead of green lighting a hour long merchandise commercial (Winnie the Pooh - which was a fine film but not for the furthering of a medium on shaky ground), why didn't they do something a little more innovative for their second feature? Only they know the answer to that...and they're not telling.

We all said not to make [Winnie the Pooh]. We said it "skews young". We need to go forward not backward but they didn't listen.

I have to wonder when he said "hand drawn is an excuse for bad movies", which movies did he mean? As we know, not all CG movies are great either. If anything, that quote applies more to CGI movies than it does to traditional ones. Some of the worst animated movies in the last decade or so were successful because of the wow factor of CGI. The big problem is that studio heads feel that for an animated movie to be successful nowadays it must be in CG. So if any good stories do land on their desk, they would be made in CG because they figured that they'd make more money than if it was hand drawn. Nothing will change until someone else does it. Then they'll all jump on the bandwagon. They kept saying that all they needed was a great story but what really needed to happen was to find an okay story that they would greenlight into 2D production and then half way through production, it would evolve into an amazing film and it would be too late to do it in CG.

Source: https://www.facebook.com/NikRanieriAnim ... 1368694269

[DisneyJedi]

But... Bob Iger said they weren't ruling out the possibility of any other hand drawn features, not that they were done with it forever.

Don't tell me he lied?!

[SWillie!]

The "hybrid or otherwise" comment comes separately from the mention that "word came out that there would be no more hand drawn features". I wouldn't write it off for the Musker and Clements film yet.

[Sotiris]

I wouldn't write it off for the Musker and Clements film yet.

I hope you're right.

[DisneyJedi]

Well, this is freaking perfect. I really hope they aren't serious about the whole 'No More Hand-Drawn Films' thing. I mean, they said they were after Home On The Range's release, but eventually they came out with The Princess and the Frog.

So...

[estefan]

Well, this is freaking perfect. I really hope they aren't serious about the whole 'No More Hand-Drawn Films' thing. I mean, they said they were after Home On The Range's release, but eventually they came out with The Princess and the Frog.

So...

That's exactly my thought process. In regards to the hybrid project, I doubt the studio would look at the Oscar and YouTube viewership of Paperman and think "Well, nobody wants to watch that sort of movie." I agree with Ranieri that making Winnie the Pooh was a mistake and they should move forward to make a very successful hand-drawn film, rather than harken back to their past (and this is coming from somebody whose a fan of the new Pooh film).

I think hand-drawn animation will make an eventual comeback. A good comparison I like to dish out is stop-motion animation. There was a time when it was mostly relegated to television, film festivals and student films. Last year, THREE major stop-motion features were released to acclaim and Academy Award nominations. Aardman and Laika already have more on the way and I don't think Frankenweenie will be Burton's last foray into the medium.

I think we will see a similar return where more than one hand-drawn animated film will be released in a single year, will get immense critical acclaim and eventual Oscar nominations.