Disenchanted

All topics relating to Disney-branded content.
User avatar
Sotiris
Ultimate Collector's Edition
Posts: 21090
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:06 am
Gender: Male
Location: Fantasyland

Re: Disenchanted

Post by Sotiris »

D82 wrote:Personally, after Raya and the Last Dragon (which I loved) I'm optimistic about WDAS' future.
I liked Raya, but I didn't love it. My biggest gripe is that it wasn't a musical. I know not every film needs to be musicalized, but with Raya in particular it felt strange that it wasn't. Not only does the setting and the plot in general lend themselves to musicalization, but the way some scenes were set up made you feel a song was about to come up, only to never materialize. It just felt off. Also, I would have preferred there was a real villain. The earlier idea of Namaari being the one controlling the Druun and the Drunn being concrete, machine-like creatures was much more appealing to me. I also missed having romance in the film, even just as a subplot like it was in Mulan or Frozen.
D82 wrote:Frozen II is now officially my least favorite film from the studio (yes, I prefer Chichen Little to it), so I don't completely trust Jennifer Lee yet.
:shock: Frozen II is kind of a mess with all the plot holes, retcons, contrivances, and tonal shifts, but worse than Chicken Little? I think there were plenty of good things in there like the songs, the art direction, the costumes, the character design, the backgrounds and layout, the animation etc., whereas you'd be really pressed to find anything redeeming about Chicken Little. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion, of course, it's just surprising you feel so negatively about it. Is there something in particular that turns you off?
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
DisneyFan09
Diamond Edition
Posts: 4019
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:28 pm

Re: Disenchanted

Post by DisneyFan09 »

Sotiris wrote:I liked Raya, but I didn't love it. My biggest gripe is that it wasn't a musical. I know not every film needs to be musicalized, but with Raya in particular it felt strange that it wasn't. Not only does the setting and the plot in general lend themselves to musicalization, but the way some scenes were set up made you feel a song was about to come up, only to never materialize. It just felt off. Also, I would have preferred there was a real villain. The earlier idea of Namaari being the one controlling the Druun and the Drunn being concrete, machine-like creatures was much more appealing to me. I also missed having romance in the film, even just as a subplot like it was in Mulan or Frozen.

My biggest problem with Raya (besides being bland and generic) was that it had an overloaded plot and suffered from a rushed storytelling. Too much time was given to incorporate an overfilled plot that it didn`t set up the characters in a fluid way. One of the biggest evidences was the prologue and how it introduced the story in media res. But also incorporating Kumandra`s and Raya`s backstory afterwards. The same could be said about how the introduction of Sisu, which was way too rushed in order to incorporate the rest of the squad (at least Aladdin, The Lion King, Hercules, Mulan and even Frozen and Moana proved how compelling it was to introduce the comic sidekick in the middle of the picture, which worked). The second biggest problem was the characters, who failed to be memorable. With the exception of Boun and young Tuk Tuk, the rest of the characters were bland and forgettable (Raya herself was fine enough, despite that she didn`t made much of an impression). Naamari was the biggest disappointment, as she had the potential to be truly compelling. But unfortunately ended up just being bland.
:shock: Frozen II is kind of a mess with all the plot holes, retcons, contrivances, and tonal shifts, but worse than Chicken Little? I think there were plenty of good things in there like the songs, the art direction, the costumes, the character design, the backgrounds and layout, the animation etc., whereas you'd be really pressed to find anything redeeming about Chicken Little. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion, of course, it's just surprising you feel so negatively about it. Is there something in particular that turns you off?
While there were some genuinely good things about Chicken Little (Abby, the pop culture references), it ended up being awfully bad as a whole. The film started out well, but unfortunately ended up being a blatant mess. With an uncompelling and hackneyed father/son conflict and a bizarre blend of awkward humor and mawkish sentimentality, Chicken Little was awful at it`s worst. Anything would be better than the worse elements of Chicken Little. And no, I`m not trying to attack those who likes it.

While Frozen II was not amazing, it was still better than Chicken Little. It was even better than it`s much overrated and overhyped predecessor, because that it was (in more opinion) more even in tone. Even the storytelling felt more cohesive and the subplots were reduced to subplots. The first Frozen suffered too much of a cluttered storytelling, as the secondary elements were hampering what should`ve been the focus of the story (Elsa`s internal conflict and the sisterly relationship). Besides, our Royal sisters were given more depth in the sequel, as they weren`t as one-dimensional as they were in the first movie and only reduced to their well-known traits. But I know that I`m repeating myself.
User avatar
D82
Signature Collection
Posts: 6311
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:07 am
Location: Spain

Re: Disenchanted

Post by D82 »

Sotiris wrote:I liked Raya, but I didn't love it. My biggest gripe is that it wasn't a musical. I know not every film needs to be musicalized, but with Raya in particular it felt strange that it wasn't. Not only does the setting and the plot in general lend themselves to musicalization, but the way some scenes were set up made you feel a song was about to come up, only to never materialize. It just felt off. Also, I would have preferred there was a real villain. The earlier idea of Namaari being the one controlling the Druun and the Drunn being concrete, machine-like creatures was much more appealing to me. I also missed having romance in the film, even just as a subplot like it was in Mulan or Frozen.
First of all, sorry for the late reply. I'm glad you liked Raya. Personally, I didn't have a problem with the things you mentioned, but I understand why you did since we are used to get those elements in a Disney film, especially in a princess one. Regarding the songs, I guess I didn't miss them because I had already accepted it wouldn't be a musical, but I agree that despite it being a bit more action-oriented than other Disney films, it could've worked perfectly with songs. I didn't miss not having a real villain either. I think the true villain here was the division between the clans and their mutual lack of trust, and I liked that. I also found Namaari and Virana satisfying as antagonistic figures, even though they're not really evil (Although, even at the end of the film I still don't completely trust Virana). As for the Druun, on the one hand, I would've liked them to be more human or robot-like too, but they were also quite menacing as they were, and the good thing about them being like a mindless plague is that it allowed for more time to develop the other characters, which was something needed given that there were so many in this film. They could've given a more concrete explanation for their existence, though, or for why they appear when they do.

Also, to be honest, I guess I'm not as big a fan of villains as most Disney fans. Disney has great villains and I love many of them, but the villain is never my favorite character in a Disney film and a movie without a villain or without a traditional one can be just as good to me. That said, I hope traditional villains never disappear from Disney. Right now, it seems they do what's on trend at the moment. I'm not against twist villains, redeemed ones or movies with no villains at all, but don't like that there have been so many of the same kind in a row lately. I wish their films were a bit more varied in that regard.

I suppose I'm not as much into romance as most fans either. I like romantic stories and I think films usually need to have an emotional core, but a friendship or a family relationship can be as interesting to me as a romantic one. Sometimes, I even prefer there wasn't a romance in some films, as many times they add that element just to make it appealing to a broader audience, but it isn't well developed or believable enough. Though, of course, as with villains, I wish Disney doesn't stop including romance in their films either.

Finally, I want to make clear that I don't think Raya is a perfect film. Like in all the films from the revival there are some plot holes, some things that don't make much sense or some cringe-worthy moments, but there are things in it that are really good, in my opinion. I love its message, for example, I think the third act is very strong (though I find all the film enjoyable), Sisu is a great sidekick to me, Raya a good protagonist and I pretty much like all the other characters as well, especially Namaari, Boun or Benja. Visually, the film is also very attractive to me, especially the character design and the sets and it has interesting world building.
Sotiris wrote: :shock: Frozen II is kind of a mess with all the plot holes, retcons, contrivances, and tonal shifts, but worse than Chicken Little? I think there were plenty of good things in there like the songs, the art direction, the costumes, the character design, the backgrounds and layout, the animation etc., whereas you'd be really pressed to find anything redeeming about Chicken Little. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion, of course, it's just surprising you feel so negatively about it. Is there something in particular that turns you off?
Well, I didn't say Chicken Little was better than Frozen II, just that I personally prefer it to that film. And yes, there are two main things I especially dislike about Frozen II. The most important of the two is the solution to the mystery which is the excuse for all the adventure; the reveal that Elsa is the fifth spirit. Although, at first I wasn't thrilled about the idea of a sequel, the fact that it would explore where Elsa's powers came from sounded really interesting to me, so eventually I was quite excited for the movie. But when I finally saw it, I found that reveal extremely disappointing. In my opinion, it just doesn't work. Her being the fifth spirit doesn't explain why she has ice powers nor makes much sense. Plus, they barely develop the idea. They don't really explain what the fifth spirit does, why it is so important or why Elsa likes being it so much. When she discovers she's the fifth spirit, suddenly all her problems disappear. She doesn't need to know what a fifth spirit does or anything; just knowing what made her different had a name and she isn't a "weirdo" anymore is enough for her. I don't find that too believable. And to top it all, the musical number in which this is all revealed, though quite good, is a rip-off of "Let It Go", dress transformation included. But the problems don't stop there for me; the ending undoes some of the things solved in the first film. After spending all her life isolated, the ending of the first movie shows her finally being happy and accepted surrounded by her sister and her subjects, and here they made her a hermit once again. Plus, I don't know why they had to separate the sisters again. I know they can still visit each other, but still.

It may seem something small, but in a film like this with a mystery at its centre, if the reveal is not satisfying, it can ruin the whole movie. And that's what the third act does for me. There are many good ideas, characters and scenes in the movie. The film even surpasses the original in a couple of aspects (for example, I find Anna and Kristoff's romance more believable here), but in my opinion, all that's wasted by the weak foundation the film has. In fact, the positive aspects only make it worse for me, because when the film ends I'm left with the feeling that this is such a huge loss opportunity. The same happens to me with Mary Poppins Returns, for example, but for different reasons. It's true that Frozen II is superior to Chicken Little in many aspects, but at least I find Chicken Little entertaining and I don't get that feeling of frustration when I finish watching it.

The other main problem I have with the film is that it's almost like a different genre than the original. The first film has a classical fairytale feel and the usual good vs. evil kind of magic, while the sequel has this kind of tribal magic which is not good or bad. The spirits act like animals or forces of nature. Sometimes they're benevolent, but sometimes they can be quite dangerous. I guess that's original for a Disney movie, but that's the problem for me; it doesn't feel very Disney to me. Plus, I don't find any of the spirits likeable. I don't know how Elsa can befriend the spirit that killed her parents, for example. I know he just acts like the animal he is and didn't have anything personal against them, but still. There are more things I don't like about the film, like for instance, it having too many themes or some characters not getting much to do, but those are minor complaints compared to the two I explained.

I do enjoy the songs and some of the other elements you mentioned on their own, but it's not enough to make me rank it higher. Maybe if they could make a really good third film which gave answer to some of the unanswered questions from this one, it could redeem it for me, but I highly doubt they can do that and I don't think my opinion of it would change drastically either.
User avatar
Disney Duster
Ultimate Collector's Edition
Posts: 14023
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:02 am
Gender: Male
Location: America

Re: Disenchanted

Post by Disney Duster »

How the hell does Frozen have cluttered storytelling? It's literally just "go find the sister and break the spell" and a "I want love" and Hans is a villain subplots. How the hell was Frozen less cohesive and uneven in tone when Frozen II is a less sense-making mess with almost the same comedy and drama as the first but it has the bizarre attempt at comedy "Lost in the Woods" and Kristoff disappears for most of the film after that? And how the hell were Anna and Elsa more developed in Frozen II? In Frozen Anna wants company and love and gets it and shows of her quirky personality and Elsa grows to explore her powers, who she is, and finds what she really wants which is love as well, and in the sequel Anna is just there to help Elss who just discovers she has the title of fifth spirit.
Image
User avatar
D82
Signature Collection
Posts: 6311
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:07 am
Location: Spain

Re: Disenchanted

Post by D82 »

Idina Menzel talks about the film in another interview:
Switching gears, I’m so excited to see you in Disenchanted next year. Tell us, how did it feel to revisit these characters over a decade later and what can fans expect from the sequel?

It was an absolute blast, to be honest. It’s a really glorious, fun, joyful, old-fashioned musical movie [and] reuniting with Amy Adams and James Marsden and Patrick [Dempsey], it was great and there’s some really talented young people that joined the cast this year. As an actor, it’s really fun to revisit a character a while later when you’ve had some time away from them and then to see sort of how your life’s experiences have informed the way you would approach a character now. So I find that to be a really fun little challenge, and my character especially is completely different because at the end of the first movie she jumps down a manhole with James Marsden. She goes from being this New York chick to like living in [an] animated fairytale world. So it was fun to figure out how much of her New York self she kept with her, and how much she just kind of bought into being the queen of Andalasia and having this hot prince, who’s off like slaying dragons and stuff. So, it was just really fun.

We were robbed of your voice in the first film! Will we be hearing you sing in this one?

Yeah, you hear me a lot. Stephen Schwartz and Alan Menken wrote the most beautiful, romantic, inspiring song lyric[s], and I’m very excited for all of you to hear it. And James and I get to do a song as well and so there’s lots more music in this movie than the first. Even for Amy. Amy’s singing her butt off and Maya Rudolph is singing and there’s so much great music.
Source: https://parade.com/1250566/alexandra-hu ... ted-movie/
User avatar
D82
Signature Collection
Posts: 6311
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:07 am
Location: Spain

Re: Disenchanted

Post by D82 »

Alan Menken also talks about Disenchanted in a new interview:
You were mentioning Disenchanted, is there anything you can share about your work with that?

It's good, it's really good. I think people are going to love it. It's got, I think, twice as many songs as the original and they're all good. They let us go whole hog. It's a great story premise; Amy again is amazing; Patrick Dempsey is back; we have a big song for Idina Menzel, Nancy; James Marsden is back... We have a bunch of new people who are singing. Maya Rudolph is in it. We have two very really wonderful young talents; one playing Morgan and a new boyfriend. I think it's wonderful. They just finished filming. They filmed in Dublin and I'm now in the midst of scoring it right now and I'm having a ball.
Source: https://youtu.be/56HVwJ44dGE?t=2440


I guess the boyfriend he mentions must be Malvina's son played by actor Kolton Stewart. Alan seems very happy with the film; that makes me even more excited for it.
User avatar
Farerb
Signature Collection
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 2:09 pm

Re: Disenchanted

Post by Farerb »

D82 wrote:
Sotiris wrote:I liked Raya, but I didn't love it. My biggest gripe is that it wasn't a musical. I know not every film needs to be musicalized, but with Raya in particular it felt strange that it wasn't. Not only does the setting and the plot in general lend themselves to musicalization, but the way some scenes were set up made you feel a song was about to come up, only to never materialize. It just felt off. Also, I would have preferred there was a real villain. The earlier idea of Namaari being the one controlling the Druun and the Drunn being concrete, machine-like creatures was much more appealing to me. I also missed having romance in the film, even just as a subplot like it was in Mulan or Frozen.
First of all, sorry for the late reply. I'm glad you liked Raya. Personally, I didn't have a problem with the things you mentioned, but I understand why you did since we are used to get those elements in a Disney film, especially in a princess one. Regarding the songs, I guess I didn't miss them because I had already accepted it wouldn't be a musical, but I agree that despite it being a bit more action-oriented than other Disney films, it could've worked perfectly with songs. I didn't miss not having a real villain either. I think the true villain here was the division between the clans and their mutual lack of trust, and I liked that. I also found Namaari and Virana satisfying as antagonistic figures, even though they're not really evil (Although, even at the end of the film I still don't completely trust Virana). As for the Druun, on the one hand, I would've liked them to be more human or robot-like too, but they were also quite menacing as they were, and the good thing about them being like a mindless plague is that it allowed for more time to develop the other characters, which was something needed given that there were so many in this film. They could've given a more concrete explanation for their existence, though, or for why they appear when they do.

Also, to be honest, I guess I'm not as big a fan of villains as most Disney fans. Disney has great villains and I love many of them, but the villain is never my favorite character in a Disney film and a movie without a villain or without a traditional one can be just as good to me. That said, I hope traditional villains never disappear from Disney. Right now, it seems they do what's on trend at the moment. I'm not against twist villains, redeemed ones or movies with no villains at all, but don't like that there have been so many of the same kind in a row lately. I wish their films were a bit more varied in that regard.

I suppose I'm not as much into romance as most fans either. I like romantic stories and I think films usually need to have an emotional core, but a friendship or a family relationship can be as interesting to me as a romantic one. Sometimes, I even prefer there wasn't a romance in some films, as many times they add that element just to make it appealing to a broader audience, but it isn't well developed or believable enough. Though, of course, as with villains, I wish Disney doesn't stop including romance in their films either.

Finally, I want to make clear that I don't think Raya is a perfect film. Like in all the films from the revival there are some plot holes, some things that don't make much sense or some cringe-worthy moments, but there are things in it that are really good, in my opinion. I love its message, for example, I think the third act is very strong (though I find all the film enjoyable), Sisu is a great sidekick to me, Raya a good protagonist and I pretty much like all the other characters as well, especially Namaari, Boun or Benja. Visually, the film is also very attractive to me, especially the character design and the sets and it has interesting world building.
Sotiris wrote: :shock: Frozen II is kind of a mess with all the plot holes, retcons, contrivances, and tonal shifts, but worse than Chicken Little? I think there were plenty of good things in there like the songs, the art direction, the costumes, the character design, the backgrounds and layout, the animation etc., whereas you'd be really pressed to find anything redeeming about Chicken Little. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion, of course, it's just surprising you feel so negatively about it. Is there something in particular that turns you off?
Well, I didn't say Chicken Little was better than Frozen II, just that I personally prefer it to that film. And yes, there are two main things I especially dislike about Frozen II. The most important of the two is the solution to the mystery which is the excuse for all the adventure; the reveal that Elsa is the fifth spirit. Although, at first I wasn't thrilled about the idea of a sequel, the fact that it would explore where Elsa's powers came from sounded really interesting to me, so eventually I was quite excited for the movie. But when I finally saw it, I found that reveal extremely disappointing. In my opinion, it just doesn't work. Her being the fifth spirit doesn't explain why she has ice powers nor makes much sense. Plus, they barely develop the idea. They don't really explain what the fifth spirit does, why it is so important or why Elsa likes being it so much. When she discovers she's the fifth spirit, suddenly all her problems disappear. She doesn't need to know what a fifth spirit does or anything; just knowing what made her different had a name and she isn't a "weirdo" anymore is enough for her. I don't find that too believable. And to top it all, the musical number in which this is all revealed, though quite good, is a rip-off of "Let It Go", dress transformation included. But the problems don't stop there for me; the ending undoes some of the things solved in the first film. After spending all her life isolated, the ending of the first movie shows her finally being happy and accepted surrounded by her sister and her subjects, and here they made her a hermit once again. Plus, I don't know why they had to separate the sisters again. I know they can still visit each other, but still.

It may seem something small, but in a film like this with a mystery at its centre, if the reveal is not satisfying, it can ruin the whole movie. And that's what the third act does for me. There are many good ideas, characters and scenes in the movie. The film even surpasses the original in a couple of aspects (for example, I find Anna and Kristoff's romance more believable here), but in my opinion, all that's wasted by the weak foundation the film has. In fact, the positive aspects only make it worse for me, because when the film ends I'm left with the feeling that this is such a huge loss opportunity. The same happens to me with Mary Poppins Returns, for example, but for different reasons. It's true that Frozen II is superior to Chicken Little in many aspects, but at least I find Chicken Little entertaining and I don't get that feeling of frustration when I finish watching it.

The other main problem I have with the film is that it's almost like a different genre than the original. The first film has a classical fairytale feel and the usual good vs. evil kind of magic, while the sequel has this kind of tribal magic which is not good or bad. The spirits act like animals or forces of nature. Sometimes they're benevolent, but sometimes they can be quite dangerous. I guess that's original for a Disney movie, but that's the problem for me; it doesn't feel very Disney to me. Plus, I don't find any of the spirits likeable. I don't know how Elsa can befriend the spirit that killed her parents, for example. I know he just acts like the animal he is and didn't have anything personal against them, but still. There are more things I don't like about the film, like for instance, it having too many themes or some characters not getting much to do, but those are minor complaints compared to the two I explained.

I do enjoy the songs and some of the other elements you mentioned on their own, but it's not enough to make me rank it higher. Maybe if they could make a really good third film which gave answer to some of the unanswered questions from this one, it could redeem it for me, but I highly doubt they can do that and I don't think my opinion of it would change drastically either.
I hate neither Frozen II nor Raya and the Last Dragon, but to me they share the same issue of over exposition, over explaining the world and it just isn't entertaining to have the plot stop so the characters can explain something about the world or the narrative. Raya literally starts with "I know what you're thinking...How did this world get so broken?" Well, no I wasn't wondering that, I just started watching the film...
I don't know, I guess some of the "Disney Magic" is lost when things are over explained I guess.
User avatar
Farerb
Signature Collection
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 2:09 pm

Re: Disenchanted

Post by Farerb »

Disney Duster wrote:How the hell does Frozen have cluttered storytelling? It's literally just "go find the sister and break the spell" and a "I want love" and Hans is a villain subplots. How the hell was Frozen less cohesive and uneven in tone when Frozen II is a less sense-making mess with almost the same comedy and drama as the first but it has the bizarre attempt at comedy "Lost in the Woods" and Kristoff disappears for most of the film after that? And how the hell were Anna and Elsa more developed in Frozen II? In Frozen Anna wants company and love and gets it and shows of her quirky personality and Elsa grows to explore her powers, who she is, and finds what she really wants which is love as well, and in the sequel Anna is just there to help Elss who just discovers she has the title of fifth spirit.
Elsa had a much better arc in Frozen II where she was treated like an actual character instead of a glorified plot device. I agree with the rest.
User avatar
Disney Duster
Ultimate Collector's Edition
Posts: 14023
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:02 am
Gender: Male
Location: America

Re: Disenchanted

Post by Disney Duster »

I disagree about Elsa in Frozen II Sure, she wasn't written that well in Frozen, but at least she didn't dangerously push her sister away in a boat and recklessly go to discover she's...it wasn't even that clear what she was! I get it, she wanted to discover what happened to her parents and be herself, but she wanted to be herself in Frozen too, and she got to be and she got to be surrounded by loved ones as well. I think Elsa expressed her emotions and grew about the same in both movies, but I prefer what she got in Frozen.
Image
User avatar
D82
Signature Collection
Posts: 6311
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:07 am
Location: Spain

Re: Disenchanted

Post by D82 »

farerb wrote:Raya literally starts with "I know what you're thinking...How did this world get so broken?" Well, no I wasn't wondering that, I just started watching the film...
:lol: I hadn't thought about that, but you're right; at that moment you still haven't had time to wonder anything. Although, now that I think of it, there is something I wonder each time I watch it. What's the object in the opening shot? Does anyone know? Is it a fountain?

The exposition about things related to the world doesn't bother me since there's an excuse for it (Sisu doesn't know how things are in the present), plus I find many of the things they say interesting. You probably wouldn't notice Talon was built over the water so people are safe from the Druun, for example, if it wasn't for these explanations. I do have a problem, though, with another thing you also mentioned on one occasion; that they're not subtle at all with the film's message. They're constantly mentioning Raya's lack of trust in others. That not only feels forced, but I doubt people in those times talked much about these things or used modern psychology terms like they do here. I have the same problem in films like The Princess and the Frog or Ralph Breaks the Internet, though it's not a big issue for me either as I understand these movies are made with children in mind and they want the message to be clear to them.
User avatar
Farerb
Signature Collection
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 2:09 pm

Re: Disenchanted

Post by Farerb »

Disney Duster wrote:I disagree about Elsa in Frozen II Sure, she wasn't written that well in Frozen, but at least she didn't dangerously push her sister away in a boat and recklessly go to discover she's...it wasn't even that clear what she was! I get it, she wanted to discover what happened to her parents and be herself, but she wanted to be herself in Frozen too, and she got to be and she got to be surrounded by loved ones as well. I think Elsa expressed her emotions and grew about the same in both movies, but I prefer what she got in Frozen.
Well yeah she's surrounded by people who love her, but has she ever loved herself?
User avatar
Farerb
Signature Collection
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 2:09 pm

Re: Disenchanted

Post by Farerb »

D82 wrote:
farerb wrote:Raya literally starts with "I know what you're thinking...How did this world get so broken?" Well, no I wasn't wondering that, I just started watching the film...
:lol: I hadn't thought about that, but you're right; at that moment you still haven't had time to wonder anything. Although, now that I think of it, there is something I wonder each time I watch it. What's the object in the opening shot? Does anyone know? Is it a fountain?

The exposition about things related to the world doesn't bother me since there's an excuse for it (Sisu doesn't know how things are in the present), plus I find many of the things they say interesting. You probably wouldn't notice Talon was built over the water so people are safe from the Druun, for example, if it wasn't for these explanations. I do have a problem, though, with another thing you also mentioned on one occasion; that they're not subtle at all with the film's message. They're constantly mentioning Raya's lack of trust in others. That not only feels forced, but I doubt people in those times talked much about these things or used modern psychology terms like they do here. I have the same problem in films like The Princess and the Frog or Ralph Breaks the Internet, though it's not a big issue for me either as I understand these movies are made with children in mind and they want the message to be clear to them.
I guess I feel that sometimes nowadays the message has more priority than the entertainment value, not that messages are bad but I feel like they should be more entwined with the story rather than feeling like they are forced.
User avatar
D82
Signature Collection
Posts: 6311
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:07 am
Location: Spain

Re: Disenchanted

Post by D82 »

farerb wrote:I guess I feel that sometimes nowadays the message has more priority than the entertainment value, not that messages are bad but I feel like they should be more entwined with the story rather than feeling like they are forced.
I agree. Sometimes everything feels a little too "planned", and as a result, you can't forget you're watching a movie. I wish more things in their films happened for no particular reason, or like you said, that at least the messages, character arcs, etc. weren't so obvious.
User avatar
Disney Duster
Ultimate Collector's Edition
Posts: 14023
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:02 am
Gender: Male
Location: America

Re: Disenchanted

Post by Disney Duster »

farerb wrote:Well yeah she's surrounded by people who love her, but has she ever loved herself?
She doesn't seem to not love herself. That doesn't seen to be an issue.
Image
User avatar
thedisneyspirit
Anniversary Edition
Posts: 1503
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:42 am

Re: Disenchanted

Post by thedisneyspirit »

farerb wrote:
D82 wrote: :lol: I hadn't thought about that, but you're right; at that moment you still haven't had time to wonder anything. Although, now that I think of it, there is something I wonder each time I watch it. What's the object in the opening shot? Does anyone know? Is it a fountain?

The exposition about things related to the world doesn't bother me since there's an excuse for it (Sisu doesn't know how things are in the present), plus I find many of the things they say interesting. You probably wouldn't notice Talon was built over the water so people are safe from the Druun, for example, if it wasn't for these explanations. I do have a problem, though, with another thing you also mentioned on one occasion; that they're not subtle at all with the film's message. They're constantly mentioning Raya's lack of trust in others. That not only feels forced, but I doubt people in those times talked much about these things or used modern psychology terms like they do here. I have the same problem in films like The Princess and the Frog or Ralph Breaks the Internet, though it's not a big issue for me either as I understand these movies are made with children in mind and they want the message to be clear to them.
I guess I feel that sometimes nowadays the message has more priority than the entertainment value, not that messages are bad but I feel like they should be more entwined with the story rather than feeling like they are forced.
Agree with all of you. Another blunder from #WokeDisney
User avatar
thedisneyspirit
Anniversary Edition
Posts: 1503
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:42 am

Re: Disenchanted

Post by thedisneyspirit »

farerb wrote:
Disney Duster wrote:How the hell does Frozen have cluttered storytelling? It's literally just "go find the sister and break the spell" and a "I want love" and Hans is a villain subplots. How the hell was Frozen less cohesive and uneven in tone when Frozen II is a less sense-making mess with almost the same comedy and drama as the first but it has the bizarre attempt at comedy "Lost in the Woods" and Kristoff disappears for most of the film after that? And how the hell were Anna and Elsa more developed in Frozen II? In Frozen Anna wants company and love and gets it and shows of her quirky personality and Elsa grows to explore her powers, who she is, and finds what she really wants which is love as well, and in the sequel Anna is just there to help Elss who just discovers she has the title of fifth spirit.
Elsa had a much better arc in Frozen II where she was treated like an actual character instead of a glorified plot device. I agree with the rest.
Just saw this. This too. Elsa stans were raving over how she was actually given the spotlight for once.
User avatar
Disney's Divinity
Ultimate Collector's Edition
Posts: 16239
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:26 am
Gender: Male

Re: Disenchanted

Post by Disney's Divinity »

D82 wrote:
farerb wrote:Raya literally starts with "I know what you're thinking...How did this world get so broken?" Well, no I wasn't wondering that, I just started watching the film...
:lol: I hadn't thought about that, but you're right; at that moment you still haven't had time to wonder anything. Although, now that I think of it, there is something I wonder each time I watch it. What's the object in the opening shot? Does anyone know? Is it a fountain?
That line is probably one more directed at how modern audiences feel about the real world right now. The film's message is being relayed to them after all.
Image
Listening to most often lately:
Taylor Swift ~ ~ "The Fate of Ophelia"
Taylor Swift ~ "Eldest Daughter"
Taylor Swift ~ "CANCELLED!"
User avatar
Sotiris
Ultimate Collector's Edition
Posts: 21090
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:06 am
Gender: Male
Location: Fantasyland

Re: Disenchanted

Post by Sotiris »

Amy Adams Says There’s “A Lot More” Singing and Dancing in ‘Enchanted’ Sequel
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv ... 235015925/
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
User avatar
WillytheDino
Gold Classic Collection
Posts: 273
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:54 am
Location: Belgium

Re: Disenchanted

Post by WillytheDino »

I am really excited for this one. Like Idina said in that interview, it's so much fun to revisit these characters all these years later and see where they are.
Hope to see a teaser soon! Do we know anything about a release date?
Is it going to be a disney plus movie or released in theaters?
'All our dreams can come true, if we have the courage to pursue them.' - Walt Disney
PatrickvD
Signature Collection
Posts: 5207
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:34 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Disenchanted

Post by PatrickvD »

I think this is a Disney+ exclusive.

Super looking forward to this. I get the impression Menken and Schwartz had a lot of creative control with this. I love that it has so much music. This is what we need from Disney. More original songs and stuff. Even if it’s from a sequel. And Amy is just the best.
Post Reply