The Lion King: Diamond Edition

All topics relating to Disney-branded content.
User avatar
Dr Frankenollie
In The Vaults
Posts: 2704
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 4:19 am

Post by Dr Frankenollie »

SWillie! wrote:But again, this is all your opinion.
I realise that; did I ever state that it was unequivocally fact? Besides, I can defend my argument, can I not?
SWillie! wrote:Believe it or not, some people actually LIKE it. Regardless of your opinion of those people, the fact that "you don't see the appeal" does not change the fact that many people DO see the appeal, many people DO find it more entertaining, and many people DO find 3D films more immersive. For many movies, I am one of those people. I'd like to think it's fairly obvious that I'm not some bumbling buffoon who is simply easily amused, as you'd like to think. I actually LIKE 3D sometimes. Is that such a hard concept for you to grasp? That just because YOU hate it, doesn't mean EVERYONE does?
I think you're being more than a little overreactive. Of course I grasp that concept; when I said that the only people who like are easily amused imbeciles (or something along those lines) I was being hyperbolic.
SWillie! wrote:While smell-o-vision is hardly what I had in mind, your moving in the right direction. I think the future of cinema, which I already have stated multiple times over the last couple pages, is something closer to virtual reality - something completely immersive, where you are literally part of the film. Now, obviously that won't happen for decades. But the first logical step to get from standard film of today to something completely immersive is 3D. Regardless of whether it works well, and regardless of whether or not you like it.
Yes, maybe that is the next logical step for cinema, but nonetheless, I find films with good characters and a good story to be more immersive than a film with 'eye-popping' 3-D, which is a simpler version of what I've been trying to put across.
User avatar
Sotiris
Ultimate Collector's Edition
Posts: 21073
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:06 am
Gender: Male
Location: Fantasyland

Post by Sotiris »

The Lion King 3D and Beauty & the Beast 3D: Review by Jerry Beck
http://www.cartoonbrew.com/disney/revie ... beast.html
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Dr Frankenollie
In The Vaults
Posts: 2704
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 4:19 am

Post by Dr Frankenollie »

Sotiris wrote:The Lion King 3D and Beauty & the Beast 3D: Review by Jerry Beck
http://www.cartoonbrew.com/disney/revie ... beast.html
Interesting; I'm gladdened by the fact that an explanation for hand-drawn 3-D of the modern age was there, and was surprised by the overall positive reaction and wish to see more hand-drawn films in 3-D (but instead not converted, but meant from the beginning of production to be shown in 3-D). However, the mentions of scratchy-like outlines for some of the characters (the writer's description reminds me of the love it or hate it results of the Xerox process) doesn't stop me from thinking that the conversions were a bad idea.
User avatar
SWillie!
Collector's Edition
Posts: 2564
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:28 am

Post by SWillie! »

Dr Frankenollie wrote:
SWillie! wrote:But again, this is all your opinion.
I realise that; did I ever state that it was unequivocally fact? Besides, I can defend my argument, can I not?
Of course you can defend your argument. But the way in which you are presenting your argument is in a way that puts down everyone else who doesn't agree - as if you believe your opinion is fact, even though you never said those words. Which is not exactly the way to do it. I don't think I'm being over reactive, as many others had the same reaction as I: "Frankenollie, your opinion is not fact!"

Maybe you didn't mean to come across like that, but you clearly did.
User avatar
Dr Frankenollie
In The Vaults
Posts: 2704
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 4:19 am

Post by Dr Frankenollie »

SWillie! wrote:Of course you can defend your argument. But the way in which you are presenting your argument is in a way that puts down everyone else who doesn't agree - as if you believe your opinion is fact, even though you never said those words. Which is not exactly the way to do it. I don't think I'm being over reactive, as many others had the same reaction as I: "Frankenollie, your opinion is not fact!"

Maybe you didn't mean to come across like that, but you clearly did.
I'm sorry if I seem a bit forceful, but I passionately LOATHE 3-D. I apologise if I came across differently, and even more sorry if (like you implied earlier) I came across in a similar manner to you know who... :oops:
User avatar
KubrickFan
Anniversary Edition
Posts: 1209
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:22 am

Post by KubrickFan »

Dr Frankenollie wrote::shock: I can't believe there are people here who actually LIKE 3-D (I thought most of you were intelligent). If I must, here are the reasons why 3-D is unequivocally a stupid gimmick:

1.It adds nothing essential to the movie-going experience.

2.It can cause nausea and headaches if used too frequently.

3.It is popularised by Hollywood largely to sell more expensive projection equipment.

4.It is popularised by cinema chains to sell more expensive tickets.

5.The image is quite darker than standard 2-D footage.

6.The objects flying out from the screen don’t add anything to the plot or entertainment value.

7.The objects flying out from the screen are annoying, childish distractions.

8.The objects flying out from the screen look gimmicky.

9.It doesn’t work for serious adult films that aren’t action-centric.

10. It limits the genres a director and/or writer can use.

11. It limits the type of scenes a director and/or writer can use.

12. It can’t be used for films unless the film is action-packed or animated.

13. Only easily-amused imbeciles would want to try and grab a character or object that appears to fly out of the screen.

14. It’s a waste of a dimension; our imaginations can add the other dimension in there. In Star Wars, do you ever think to yourself: ‘That spaceship looks too flat and 2-D.’ Of course not. Our minds use the principle of perspective, and usually if the film is good enough you won’t care if you can pretend to grab objects from the film or not.

15. In tests for 3-D televisions, viewers were found to have sore eyes afterwards.

16. 3-D televisions cost £2400 each, and only 2 pairs of 3D glasses come ‘free’ with it.

17. For 3-D televisions, if you need more than 2 pairs of 3D glasses you have to buy them separately...

18. ...For £100 each.

19. Test audiences felt ill after watching 3-D televisions for only 2 minutes.

20. You might have the expensive 3-D television, but you need a lot of compatible hardware, including a 3-D Blu-Ray player.

21. There’s no point in getting 3-D televisions, because only a few American channels are running 3-D shows.

22. 3-D can’t work for people blind in one eye.

23. 3-D is bad for eyes, as it makes them work in an unnatural way.


24. Avatar’s 3-D was good only because it was James Cameron’s original vision; most directors and writers are forced by executives and producers to use 3-D in their films, even if they don’t want to. This often happens. There have been accounts of executives not releasing films because the director didn’t want to use 3-D.

25. The reason for the planned re-releases of Star Wars and Titanic in 3-D won’t add anything to the popular movies. The only thing they’re adding to are the directors’ wallets, that is if audiences are dumb enough to go and watch the 3-D re-releases.

27. Hollywood should use MaxiVision48 instead, which creates an experience one thousand times better than 3-D. It uses 48 frames per second rather than the standard 24 frames per second, and looks so much better. This is a rarely-used style, which can be used for any type of film, and makes 3-D look even shittier.

28. Wearing 3-D glasses looks stupid (and wearing them on top of prescription glasses looks even worse).

29. 3-D glasses have become fashionable. When people wear 3-D glasses outside the cinema and in public, they probably think that this look is proclaiming that, yes, they just went to see a 3-D movie and are happy to unleash their inner geek. Instead, it says: “I got conned into seeing a 3-D movie, and am unleashing my inner idiot. I also get to look dumb in public...and it says ‘Real 3-D’ on the sides of the glasses. That’s cool, right? Right?”

30. When 3-D has objects appearing to fly out of the screen, the viewer’s attention is drawn to a particular part of the screen; thus, a lot of the work of a cinematographer or animator is wasted as 3-D makes us focus upon a particular thing in every shot.
You know what, they said the exact same thing about sound when that was introduced in combination with the moving images. Silent film directors hated it, said that silent movies were an art and having people talk over them would make it cheap. In fact, they also said it about color filming and widescreen. That's not to say that 3D is always the right thing to do. I loathe the conversions. If a director wants his movie to be released in 3D, then take the time to shoot it in 3D.
The format has potential, as long as some visually imaginative people make movies with it.
Image
DisneyFan09
Diamond Edition
Posts: 4018
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:28 pm

Post by DisneyFan09 »

SWillie! wrote:You LIKED the song for Morning Report?! :o :o :o
If he/she liked it, then so what?? Everyone has their own opinion and are allowed to like what they want.
User avatar
disneyprincess11
Diamond Edition
Posts: 4363
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:46 am
Location: Maryland, USA

Post by disneyprincess11 »

DisneyFan09 wrote:
SWillie! wrote:You LIKED the song for Morning Report?! :o :o :o
If he/she liked it, then so what?? Everyone has their own opinion and are allowed to like what they want.
Yeah, I like it too. I don't see why there's hatred for it. It's such a cute, bouncy song. But, if it came out in the original (like it was going to. It got deleted right before/during storyboards), people would love it. Not being rude here, just saying. :)
PatrickvD
Signature Collection
Posts: 5207
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:34 am
Location: The Netherlands

Post by PatrickvD »

KubrickFan wrote: You know what, they said the exact same thing about sound when that was introduced in combination with the moving images. Silent film directors hated it, said that silent movies were an art and having people talk over them would make it cheap. In fact, they also said it about color filming and widescreen.
I hate this argument. You didn't need glasses to experience dimensions like sound and color.

Also, Sound and color became the standard. Hollywood has attempted to shove this 3D thing down our throats so many times now. The following image shows how every 3D craze through history ends in people getting sick of it because it's nothing more than a gimmick:

http://www.filmtotaal.nl/images/newscontent/3a647d4.jpg
User avatar
Dr Frankenollie
In The Vaults
Posts: 2704
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 4:19 am

Post by Dr Frankenollie »

PatrickvD wrote:I hate this argument. You didn't need glasses to experience dimensions like sound and color.

Also, Sound and color became the standard. Hollywood has attempted to shove this 3D thing down our throats so many times now. The following image shows how every 3D craze through history ends in people getting sick of it because it's nothing more than a gimmick:

http://www.filmtotaal.nl/images/newscontent/3a647d4.jpg
Thanks for that great image, and also for replying to KubrickFan. I couldn't have put it better myself. :)
User avatar
SpringHeelJack
Platinum Edition
Posts: 3673
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:20 pm
Location: Boston, MA
Contact:

Post by SpringHeelJack »

I also like "Morning Report" all right. I don't NEED it to be in the movie, but it hardly ruined it for me, especially since you had the option of it not being in there on the PE DVD. I wish the Blu-ray would have the same feature, frankly.
"Ta ta ta taaaa! Look at me... I'm a snowman! I'm gonna go stand on someone's lawn if I don't get something to do around here pretty soon!"
User avatar
KubrickFan
Anniversary Edition
Posts: 1209
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:22 am

Post by KubrickFan »

PatrickvD wrote: I hate this argument. You didn't need glasses to experience dimensions like sound and color.

Also, Sound and color became the standard. Hollywood has attempted to shove this 3D thing down our throats so many times now. The following image shows how every 3D craze through history ends in people getting sick of it because it's nothing more than a gimmick:

http://www.filmtotaal.nl/images/newscontent/3a647d4.jpg
Okay, you do need glasses. For now. You and I don't know what the future will bring. They're working on glassless systems, so it'll probably happen eventually.

Sound and color didn't become the standard immediately, or without any fuss. There was experimentation with different sound and color systems. Films were tinted, colored by hand, you had the two-color Kodachrome, and finally Technicolor. And even then black and white movies continued to be made on a regular basis well into the sixties. That's quite a long time to become a standard.

It became a gimmick earlier basically because of the movies 3D was attached to. Schlocky B-horror movies, mostly, so no wonder it got a bad reputation. I'm saying that if there are directors that are willing to improvise with it and adapt to the shooting process, then I see no reason why it couldn't work as a legitimate format. It would definitely bring back a piece of the showmanship the movies have been lacking lately, like those movies shot on 65mm film.

So what I'm saying is, it's not the format that's bad. The format works absolutely fine. It's the business end of it all. The producers that flood the market with crappy converted movies and directors that do gimmicky things with it.

You're forgetting that there was a learning curve with those other formats too. With sound, you had silent film directors that treated their talkies like silent films, only with a minimum amount of dialogs. Or you had the other group, that treated them like plays, where the actors did nothing but recite dialogs.
Or with color film, where they had to do expansive tests on how the Technicolor cameras would capture certain colors. Or the massive amounts of light required. With widescreen, they usually just let the action unfold without cutting as much as possible, which gave us very static movies. All of that was gone after a while, since directors learn to adapt and find new ways to do certain things. Since the revival of 3D has only really begun with Avatar (a turd of a movie where 3D was the only thing that had more dimensions) and unfortunately has only occasionally seen something that rivals it. But, with Martin Scorsese and Ridley Scott both shooting in the format, maybe it'll look better in the future.

Or maybe the producers run it to the ground with the crappy conversions. Who knows?
Image
DisneyFan09
Diamond Edition
Posts: 4018
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:28 pm

Post by DisneyFan09 »

disneyprincess11 wrote:
DisneyFan09 wrote: If he/she liked it, then so what?? Everyone has their own opinion and are allowed to like what they want.
Yeah, I like it too. I don't see why there's hatred for it. It's such a cute, bouncy song. But, if it came out in the original (like it was going to. It got deleted right before/during storyboards), people would love it. Not being rude here, just saying. :)
Your last statement was quite valid. I don't love Morning Report, but I certainly don't hate it. However, it just seemed a little off during the movie. But again; I certainly don't hate it either.
User avatar
disneyboy20022
Signature Collection
Posts: 6868
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:17 pm

Post by disneyboy20022 »

This image below, isn't a gimmick....it's a very stupid gimmick which makes which should never catch on.....at least anytime soon...

Image
Want to Hear How I met Roy E. Disney in 2003? Click the link Below

http://fromscreentotheme.com/ThursdayTr ... isney.aspx
User avatar
zackisthewalrus
Anniversary Edition
Posts: 1229
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:00 am
Location: Everywhere
Contact:

Post by zackisthewalrus »

Forgive me if this has been asked already, but do we know if we are getting a coupon for the Trilogy set?
"No day but today."
My YouTube Channel
User avatar
ajmrowland
Signature Collection
Posts: 8177
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:19 pm
Location: Appleton, WI

Post by ajmrowland »

disneyboy20022 wrote:This image below, isn't a gimmick....it's a very stupid gimmick which makes which should never catch on.....at least anytime soon...

Image
well, rodrguez does like to be "ahead of the curve"
Image
MouseHouse55
Gold Classic Collection
Posts: 156
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 4:34 pm

Post by MouseHouse55 »

I don't believe I've seen mentioned here yet that Best Buy has Lion King ironpaks available for pre-order. It's similar to the BatB and TS3 ironpaks last year, where you pre-order with a $7.50 deposit and take home the case. It looks just like the limited edition case from 8 or 9 years ago. Each Best Buy got around 20 of them.
User avatar
singerguy04
Collector's Edition
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:40 pm
Location: The Land of Lincoln

Post by singerguy04 »

MouseHouse55 wrote:I don't believe I've seen mentioned here yet that Best Buy has Lion King ironpaks available for pre-order. It's similar to the BatB and TS3 ironpaks last year, where you pre-order with a $7.50 deposit and take home the case. It looks just like the limited edition case from 8 or 9 years ago. Each Best Buy got around 20 of them.
On pages 31-33 we talked alot about them, and there are some posted pictures of the ironpack. Thanks anyway! :)
User avatar
jpanimation
Anniversary Edition
Posts: 1841
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:00 am

Post by jpanimation »

PatrickvD wrote: The following image shows how every 3D craze through history ends in people getting sick of it because it's nothing more than a gimmick:

http://www.filmtotaal.nl/images/newscontent/3a647d4.jpg
Awesome image. It just further disproves the myth that they used crappy anaglyphic 3D in the 50s and that what they’re currently using is soo much better. They used polarized then and they’re using it now, the only difference is the added stabilization that comes with digital projectors, but they're basically the same type of glasses.
KubrickFan wrote:Okay, you do need glasses. For now. You and I don't know what the future will bring. They're working on glassless systems, so it'll probably happen eventually.
I've been reading about these autostereoscopic screens for a while now and it really seems like they're not as far off as most people think. Currently, as with the 3DS, the 3D filters are limited to a sweet spot to experience the full effect without any ghosting but technology companies have been making enough real progress on increasing viewing angles and degrees that it's to the point of viability and they've been showing it off at trade shows and conventions. While I don't think it'll ever become an industry standard like color or sound, I do think eliminating the up charge and the need for glasses will make it less gimmicky in the public's eyes, even mainstream.
KubrickFan wrote:Sound and color didn't become the standard immediately, or without any fuss. There was experimentation with different sound and color systems. Films were tinted, colored by hand, you had the two-color Kodachrome, and finally Technicolor. And even then black and white movies continued to be made on a regular basis well into the sixties. That's quite a long time to become a standard.

It became a gimmick earlier basically because of the movies 3D was attached to. Schlocky B-horror movies, mostly, so no wonder it got a bad reputation. I'm saying that if there are directors that are willing to improvise with it and adapt to the shooting process, then I see no reason why it couldn't work as a legitimate format. It would definitely bring back a piece of the showmanship the movies have been lacking lately, like those movies shot on 65mm film.

So what I'm saying is, it's not the format that's bad. The format works absolutely fine. It's the business end of it all. The producers that flood the market with crappy converted movies and directors that do gimmicky things with it.

You're forgetting that there was a learning curve with those other formats too. With sound, you had silent film directors that treated their talkies like silent films, only with a minimum amount of dialogs. Or you had the other group, that treated them like plays, where the actors did nothing but recite dialogs.
Or with color film, where they had to do expansive tests on how the Technicolor cameras would capture certain colors. Or the massive amounts of light required. With widescreen, they usually just let the action unfold without cutting as much as possible, which gave us very static movies. All of that was gone after a while, since directors learn to adapt and find new ways to do certain things. Since the revival of 3D has only really begun with Avatar (a turd of a movie where 3D was the only thing that had more dimensions) and unfortunately has only occasionally seen something that rivals it. But, with Martin Scorsese and Ridley Scott both shooting in the format, maybe it'll look better in the future.

Or maybe the producers run it to the ground with the crappy conversions. Who knows?
Nothing to disagree with but something to add to your previous post. Another reason silent film directors were most likely reluctant to jump on the sound bandwagon was due to the technical limitations the early sound technology was putting on their films. They could no longer move their cameras around the way they were used to and it really limited the amount of location shooting they could do. This had to be seen as a step backwards to them. Of course, much of this was remedied when Lionel Barrymore invented the boom mike but it still took years for sound technology to get to the point where directors were no longer hindered by it's added presence. I think it has some more growing to do but 3D will eventually get to the point where it doesn't impede on the audiences viewing experience with added 3D glasses. It'll never replace traditional viewing but it has the potential to be a welcome companion.

BTW, I apologize to everyone for being off topic.

Now back on topic, has anyone heard anything yet about coupons? I really hope they go back to offering us $10 coupons.
Image
User avatar
KubrickFan
Anniversary Edition
Posts: 1209
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:22 am

Post by KubrickFan »

jpanimation wrote: Nothing to disagree with but something to add to your previous post. Another reason silent film directors were most likely reluctant to jump on the sound bandwagon was due to the technical limitations the early sound technology was putting on their films. They could no longer move their cameras around the way they were used to and it really limited the amount of location shooting they could do. This had to be seen as a step backwards to them. Of course, much of this was remedied when Lionel Barrymore invented the boom mike but it still took years for sound technology to get to the point where directors were no longer hindered by it's added presence. I think it has some more growing to do but 3D will eventually get to the point where it doesn't impede on the audiences viewing experience with added 3D glasses. It'll never replace traditional viewing but it has the potential to be a welcome companion.

BTW, I apologize to everyone for being off topic.
Yeah, but again, almost every new format had that. With technicolor you had the need for massive amounts of light, making the it very difficult to go outside. With widescreen you had the fact that the studio people thought you couldn't cut as quick as with regular film, or movie the camera as much because the people watching it on a huge screen might get ill (sound familiar?). With big format photography, the cameras were huge and noisy, etc. Some of these problems were overcome, and others were simply replaced by formats that were easier to work with. Of course, there's no saying what will happen with 3D, but I stick by the fact that whatever happens, it's not the format itself that's the problem.
Image
Post Reply