Alice in Wonderland (Live-Action)

[Goliath]

That's all well and good, but do you think European cinemas should have boyotted the delayed Princess and the Frog? After all, most people here have multi-region players (everybody I know does, including the entirety of my extended family which covers several generations). After all, people in Europe will be able to pick up the R1 DVD soon, making the Cinema to DVD window just as short (if not shorter - I make it around 6 weeks from the UK première to the R1 DVD release)

That's a non-argument. The reason why a lot of European cinema chains boycott Alice, is because the R2 DVD will be released within 3 months after theatrical release. Not the R1 DVD. The deal they had with Disney (and other distributors) is that there be at least 4 months between theayrical release and DVD release. Disney violated that agreement. That's what's happening now. The agreement says nothing about R1 DVD's.

I think you know as well as I do, that the general public doesn't order R1 DVD's from foreign countries via the Internet. This is only done by a handful of movie freaks. That's why that's not an issue for cinema chains. That said, that's irrelevant to this discussion. Disney's reason for releasing the DVD that soon makes no sense. Disney says they do this because otherwise, people would download the film illegally. This is nonsense. People don't download films because they don't want to wait another month for the DVD, but because they don't want to pay for it. That won't change by releasing the DVD a month earlier.

You don't pay anything like $20.00 - more like about $6 (Amazon) and some sites do free shipping. Given the exchange rate you can pick up The Princess and the Frog on DVD for about £15.33. Not much more (£1 or £2) than it will be when released over here. I often import DVDs for this very reason if the R1 has better extras - even if UK releases are available.

I think you're forgetting I am a person in Europe!

And you forget that most people buy Disney DVD's for their children. Most people in Europe don't have English as their native language. The kids need releases that are dubbed in their own language in order to understand the film. A lot of adults need subtitles for the same reason. An imported American edition will not suffice.

[Siren]

Do caterpillars even have lungs? Or does he do it just to be cool?

In reality, caterpillars breath through the sides of their bodies. They have little holes on the side of each segment that allows them to breath.

[2099net]

That's all well and good, but do you think European cinemas should have boyotted the delayed Princess and the Frog? After all, most people here have multi-region players (everybody I know does, including the entirety of my extended family which covers several generations). After all, people in Europe will be able to pick up the R1 DVD soon, making the Cinema to DVD window just as short (if not shorter - I make it around 6 weeks from the UK première to the R1 DVD release)

That's a non-argument. The reason why a lot of European cinema chains boycott Alice, is because the R2 DVD will be released within 3 months after theatrical release. Not the R1 DVD. The deal they had with Disney (and other distributors) is that there be at least 4 months between theayrical release and DVD release. Disney violated that agreement. That's what's happening now. The agreement says nothing about R1 DVD's.

I think you know as well as I do, that the general public doesn't order R1 DVD's from foreign countries via the Internet. This is only done by a handful of movie freaks. That's why that's not an issue for cinema chains.
That said, that's irrelevant to this discussion. Disney's reason for releasing the DVD that soon makes no sense. Disney says they do this because otherwise, people would download the film illegally. This is nonsense. People don't download films because they don't want to wait another month for the DVD, but because they don't want to pay for it. That won't change by releasing the DVD a month earlier.

And lots of people still wait for home releases now. Everyone knows you can go to the cinema, wait about 4 months and buy a DVD for a premium or wait another 4 months from that and buy the same DVD for a lower price. I don't see what releasing Alice a month earlier will achieve to "non Movie Freaks" - will a "non-Movie-Freak" even know the DVD is coming out earlier? We do, because we're freaks. Maybe more people do now because of all the news reporting of the issue by mainstream news agencies. Doesn't that mean the cinemas have - in fact - made the situation worse by creating the publicity?

As for only movie freaks importing, another issue is (be it you think its nonsense or not) downloading and pirate movies. While I myself don't, I guess about 70% of the people I know do download movies or buy pirate DVDs every so often. And of course, most pirate DVDs are taken from R1 DVD copies or US theatrical prints/showings. There's really no positive spin at all on staggered release dates in today's global marketplace. I can see only negatives. And yes, those negatives will impact on local cinemas - even if only slightly.

As for importing, it may be different in mainland Europe, but again everyone I know imports 3 or 4 titles a year - and the people I know aren't "movie freaks". The main reason - I think - seems to be impatiance rather than wanting the "best" (which is my motivation unless of course the release in question is not available in the UK and unlikely to be so - such as the Tremors: The Series set I orders for only £14 shipped recently). If imports weren't so popular - sales of Multiregion players wouldn't be so popular - check out this amazon.co.uk listing: approximately half of its DVD players for sale are multi-region - its certainly not a cottage industry in the UK.

I think you're forgetting I am a person in Europe!

And you forget that most people buy Disney DVD's for their children. Most people in Europe don't have English as their native language. The kids need releases that are dubbed in their own language in order to understand the film. A lot of adults need subtitles for the same reason. An imported American edition will not suffice.

Well, most American releases have French and Spanish dubs and/or subtitles. That along with English probably covers 40% of the European market? Certainly these cover the most populous countries and regions. Probably another 10% if you take into account people with one of those languages as a semi-fluent second language?

[Goliath]

Well, most American releases have French and Spanish dubs and/or subtitles. That along with English probably covers 40% of the European market? Certainly these cover the most populous countries and regions. Probably another 10% if you take into account people with one of those languages as a semi-fluent second language?

What about the Dutch, the Germans, the Portugese, the Polish, the Romanians, the Hungarians, the Danes, the Norwegians, the Swedes, the Finns, the Italians, the Greeks? Just to name a few people with their own language. Frankly, I think you're being too English-centered.

And you're reversing the argument: Disney's argument was that people will download a movie if it isn't available within 3 months of theatrical release. I pointed out that people who download will continue to do so if, instead of 4 months, they only have to wait 3 months. People download to save money, not because they have to wait too long. So Disney's argument is nonsense.

Disney made an agreement with the exhibitors and they violated it. So the cinema chains have every right to boycott the film.

[Luke]

I'm not sure if this has been posted or not but the film has recieved this from the MPAA:

Title: Alice In Wonderland (2010)
Rating: PG
Rating Reason: Rated PG for fantasy action/violence involving scary images and situations, and for a smoking caterpillar.
Distributor: Walt Disney Pictures

www.mpaa.org

A smoking caterpillar... I love it. The MPAA really seems to be developing a sense of humor in their rating descriptions.

[blackcauldron85]

Alice in Wonderland SkinIt designs:
http://www.skinit.com/landing_page.php? ... pnow_alice

[Wonderlicious]

Better news for those in the UK wanting to see this film:

Disney has persuaded one of Britain’s biggest cinema chains to drop its boycott of Tim Burton's film Alice in Wonderland after negotiations about the timing of its release on DVD.

Cineworld, which owns a fifth of British cinema screens, has agreed to show the film despite the studio’s wish to bring it out on DVD after 12 weeks rather than the usual 17. However Odeon and Vue, which own about 40 per cent of screens, have refused to compromise.

Neither Disney nor Cineworld would confirm how long Alice in Wonderland would be available exclusively to cinemas, but The Times understands that the cinema chain agreed to a shorter window after personal reassurances from Bob Chapek, Disney’s president of distrubution, that this would not be the usual practice for Disney films.
...
Odeon and Vue’s threat to boycott the film would be financially risky to both themselves and Disney, especially because Alice is available in 3-D format. The two chains own more than 60 per cent of 3-D screens in Britain.

Britain is the third biggest market for films outside the US and Japan, and is regarded as vital to the success of Alice in Wonderland. The involvement of Tim Burton, who is American but based in Britain, and British actors including Helena Bonham Carter, Stephen Fry and Alan Rickman mean that producers are hoping to recoup a substantial portion of the film’s $150 million (£100m) budget in British cinemas.

Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, another Tim Burton film starring Johnny Depp, made £37 million at the box office in Britain in 2005.

Joe Roth, a producer of the film, told the Los Angeles Times: "Anything that would prevent maximising Alice for the UK would be horrible. This would be one of the biggest pictures of the year in the UK. But I honestly think this will be worked out.”
...
Odeon issued a statement last night that suggested that negotiations with Disney had broken down. “As a result of Disney’s insistence on reducing at short notice the theatrical window from 17 weeks to 12 weeks on a major 3-D title, regrettably with limited availability of 3-D screens, we have been left with no viable means of scheduling and promoting Alice In Wonderland.”

It added that other titles, such as How to Train Your Dragon and Nanny McPhee and the Big Bang, will “be taking priority” on its 3-D screens.

Disney, which has also provoked a boycott threat from Dutch cinemas, has previously backed down in arguments with British cinemas. It attempted to release Up, the Pixar animation, on DVD two months after its cinema release in October but withdrew its plans when British chains threatened to boycott A Christmas Carol, another Disney film.

Full unabridged article: http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/ ... 031380.ece

I still hope that everything fully resolves itself. Though knowing life, it probably won't.

[Disneykid]

Disney has released a new featurette about the world of Wonderland as well as the official music video to Avril Lavigne's "Alice".

[blackcauldron85]

Mia Wasikowska the ideal 'Alice'
http://jam.canoe.ca/Movies/Artists/W/Wa ... 1-qmi.html
(via laughingplace.com)


***


Alice in Wonderland Video Games coming soon
http://thedisneyblog.com/2010/02/17/ali ... ming-soon/

[2099net]

Well, most American releases have French and Spanish dubs and/or subtitles. That along with English probably covers 40% of the European market? Certainly these cover the most populous countries and regions. Probably another 10% if you take into account people with one of those languages as a semi-fluent second language?

What about the Dutch, the Germans, the Portugese, the Polish, the Romanians, the Hungarians, the Danes, the Norwegians, the Swedes, the Finns, the Italians, the Greeks? Just to name a few people with their own language. Frankly, I think you're being too English-centered.

Well of course I am. When dealing with Europe, you can never speak in absolutes! Besides, I'm coming from the UK perspective - one chain may have given in, but as far as I know, two are still refusing to screen it.

And you're reversing the argument: Disney's argument was that people will download a movie if it isn't available within 3 months of theatrical release. I pointed out that people who download will continue to do so if, instead of 4 months, they only have to wait 3 months. People download to save money, not because they have to wait too long. So Disney's argument is nonsense.

No, people download for lots of reasons, and impatience is one of them.

As for staggered releases, you don't have to be a movie freak to realise a film has been released and promoted heavily in advance of a European release. We're living in a global economy and with global communications. Everybody has access to youtube, or apple's quicktime trailers and any other trailer/clip/interview/promotion page/feature on the internet.

Advertising must work to some extent, because lots of large corporations spend millions and millions on advertising each and every year. Why do you think advertising available for all to see on the internet won't have an effect.

Even beyond corporate advertising and hype, lots of people who aren't "movie freaks" are interested in celebrities and celebrity gossip - it's not exactly hard to read about movies currently unreleased in your country when reading the latest Megan Fox gossip or similar. Also lots of people have social network friends all over the world telling them how great movie "X" is (you must see it), discussing it with your shared friends (making you feel left out) and probably spoiling major plot points. Even if you don't download/pirate movie X, you may decide to sit out the cinema release being as you already know most of the plot, or because the fad has been and gone on-line when it eventually gets released in your country.

All this creates a desire to see the movie and a sense of entitlement too. Some/most may be able to wait, but not all - people these days want everything yesterday! And if not, like I said you run the risk of the movie being old news by the time it gets to opening in your country. Especially if it has a lacklustre critical or financial performance in other territories (in effect, negative publicity).

I know you will argue people on this board are movie freaks, but how often do you hear people here say that they will download a movie and then pay to see it later? It comes up quite a few times. And that's mainly for US releases which happen to be "leaked" to the net. Not people having to wait 2-4 months for their country to get around to screening the film!

Now what if people download the movie or buy a cheap pirate DVD from a R1 master and decide the movie is not worth watching? Or at least paying for. Even though people intended to pay, they won't.

Disney made an agreement with the exhibitors and they violated it. So the cinema chains have every right to boycott the film.

Yes, they have right, but I still think its fighting the wrong battle, and it doesn't mean that they should. Your argument about money/downloading could apply here: people who pay to go to the cinema still will, especially if they want to see it in 3D - so agreement or not, the money the cinema stands to loose is minimal.

At the end of the day, I doubt anyone can put a value on lost ticket sales for either staggered cinema releases or short theatrical windows because nobody can prove if the ticket would or would not have been sold - but being as studios, music companies, shops and yes, cinemas have complained about piracy at one point or another, it stands to reason worldwide releases will help to remove a reason for film piracy existing (even if its not the major reason - expense).

[yamiiguy]

Thank goodness! I always go to Cineworld

[blackcauldron85]

Follow That Rabbit to the Makeup Aisle
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/18/fashion/18SKIN01.html
(via disneyreport.com)

[ajmrowland]

That'd be good..........if it were Halloween. Tim Burton-inspired beauty products isn't going to..........actually...........I do see artistic merit in the idea. Never mind!

[disneyboy20022]

That'd be good..........if it were Halloween. Tim Burton-inspired beauty products isn't going to..........actually...........I do see artistic merit in the idea. Never mind!

Well here's a few reasons I could see people using it...

The Midnight showing....Look your best

Mardi Gras - Underland Style!!

Look like a tim burtonized version of the easter bunny

St Patricks Day - look like a Mad Hatter Leprechan

April Fools Day - Endless Possibilities

[ajmrowland]

Yeah, I'm liking those! Oh, and if u didn't notice, I actually had second thoughts as I was typing my previous post.

[BackgroundActorman1976]

Obviously you have never worked in the Theatrical exhibition industry cause when studios pull crap like this it hurts everyone who works for a theatre chain from the owners all the way down to concessionist floor staff, and maintance people.

heres the thing it would be one thing if Disney didnt take 60 to 85 percent of the total boxoffice take of each theatre each week for the first 4 to 4 1/2 weeks its movie is on screen then 40-50 percent for the next 4to 5 weeks then finally down to only 25 to 30 perecent after that. then finally only 20 percent after week 13

If disney wants to shorten the box office window then they should to lower the percentage they take from the theatres they rent their films to showcase movies in those earlier weeks .

If they were to do that, then most theatre exhibitors would be more willing to let movies have smaller theatrical to home video window.

[2099net]

Obviously you have never worked in the Theatrical exhibition industry cause when studios pull crap like this it hurts everyone who works for a theatre chain from the owners all the way down to concessionist floor staff, and maintance people.

heres the thing it would be one thing if Disney didnt take 60 to 85 percent of the total boxoffice take of each theatre each week for the first 4 to 4 1/2 weeks its movie is on screen then 40-50 percent for the next 4to 5 weeks then finally down to only 25 to 30 perecent after that. then finally only 20 percent after week 13

But why does it hurt people more than showing a film already available via international DVD sales or pirated copies? That's all I'm asking. I'm still saying staggered release dates hurt more than reduced local home video release windows.

I still cannot understand how anyone can think releasing a film locally 4-6 months after the US release is preferable than releasing a home video release 4 weeks earlier than the generally accepted industry norm. Doing so is bound to affect people's desire to see the film - by the time it reaches us, people know the story, have seen how the box-office did in the US (you're hardly likely to want to pay to see a "proven" US box-office flop if that is the case), and have probably gotten fed-up with two waves of hype and advertising. Staggered release dates obviously do affect films box-office takings or else the studios wouldn't work hard to ensure all their big tent-pole movies get more or less simultaneous worldwide releases.

So why don't the cinema chains complain about that?

People can argue all day about movie freaks importing, or people who download/buy pirate copies aren't cinema goers anyway, but the same is true for people how do go to the cinema. Most cinema openings peak on the week of release and then decline week on week. It's hard to find films with "legs" - especially in the summer blockbuster season where new films constantly take the spotlight off other recently released movies.

You're on about week 13 but how many films do you think last until week 13 in Europe anyway? Most of our cinemas have fewer screens than the giant multiplexes in the US. Yes, we have cinemas with 10 or more screens, but also plenty of cinemas with 3-5 screens. And even the giant multiplexes tend to show the big new movies on 2 or more screens the opening couple of weeks. Its not as if people are flocking to the cinema in week 5 - if at all the film is showing in week 5.

At the end of the day, people who want to wait for home video release do, people who want to import DVDs do, people who want to theatrical experience do go to the cinema. I don't particularly see a huge loss due to the people who on impulse pay to see a movie 5 weeks or after release no longer doing so. I would imagine most of these are repeat viewers anyway - so they probably would go to the cinema to review the movie regardless (especially if its a 3D presentation) - and the casual movie goers who don't read websites, magazines or eagerly scan internet shops for DVD release dates aren't likely to know Alice in Wonderland would be coming to home video sooner than normal so again aren't likely to have their viewing habits affected. (Of course, not due to all the publicity from the cinema chains people do know - they themselves have created an own goal!)

If disney wants to shorten the box office window then they should to lower the percentage they take from the theatres they rent their films to showcase movies in those earlier weeks .

If they were to do that, then most theatre exhibitors would be more willing to let movies have smaller theatrical to home video window.

I know we all expect the worst from Disney, but how do we know that they haven't done that? I'm sure that they have with Cineworld in the UK now it has agreed to show the film. So, there should be no problem in the future with Cineworld if Disney keeps to the same formula?

If a shorter release window becomes the norm, then the industry will adjust and adapt - just as it did when VHS and video rentals started, and when DVD increase the popularity of the public buying a film to own. Regardless of these developments, we're still seeing record audiences visiting cinemas.

[blackcauldron85]

A pretty long article with some neat tid-bits about the film:

Alice's very weird wonderland: Why a behind-the-scenes row might see Tim Burton's most fantastical film yet disappear from cinemas as fast as the Cheshire Cat
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/ar ... e-Cat.html
(via disneyreport.com)


First Alice in Wonderland Clip Online
http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=63501

That looks really awesome...!

[Margos]

That was really entertaining! Sure it was a little too short for my taste.... But the dialogue was really cute, and the visuals were lovely. "Someone clothe this enormous girl!"

[blackcauldron85]

Lots of pictures:

Walt Disney Pictures' Ultimate Fan Event Celebrating "Alice In Wonderland"
http://www.wireimage.com/ItemListings.a ... 058&nbc1=1
(via community.livejournal.com/ohnotheydidnt)