Mulan (Live-Action)

[Sotiris]

Director Niki Caro describes four of the new characters of this version (Xian Lang, Mulan's sister, Commander Tung and Chen Honghui) in this video: https://www.fotogramas.es/noticias-cine ... es-nuevos/

The director saying that the Witch is an "example of the price you pay when you're an exceptionally powerful woman" makes me believe that she will be revealed to be a Chinese woman who joined the Rourans as payback for being punished or ostracized by the Chinese. The director referring to the relationship between Mulan and Chen as "a very deep friendship" reinforces the belief that the romance will be very subtle or subtextual.

[Sotiris]

In this Chinese TV spot, Mulan's father has different dialogue in English for the same scene than the American one. In the American one, he says "if I expose her, our own people will kill her" whereas in this one he says "if her identity is discovered, she will be in great danger". Is this a case of censorship?

[Sotiris]

International character posters.


Source: https://twitter.com/DisneysMulan/status ... 8904120321


Source: https://twitter.com/DisneysMulan/status ... 1735271424


Source: https://twitter.com/DisneysMulan/status ... 8904120321


Source: https://twitter.com/DisneysMulan/status ... 1735271424


Source: https://twitter.com/DisneysMulan/status ... 0221131776


Source: https://twitter.com/DisneysMulan/status ... 0221131776

[D82]

^I much prefer these character posters to the domestic ones.

The director saying that the Witch is an "example of the price you pay when you're an exceptionally powerful woman" makes me believe that she will be revealed to be a Chinese woman who joined the Rourans as payback for being punished or ostracized by the Chinese.

I was wondering what she meant by that. I think it's possible it's what you say.

The director referring to the relationship between Mulan and Chen as "a very deep friendship" reinforces the belief that the romance will be very subtle or subtextual.

Yes. Maybe they decided to portray their relationship that way because of the complaints you guys mentioned some people have regarding the ending.

[Sotiris]

I much prefer these character posters to the domestic ones.

Me too except the one for Mulan that reuses the same image from the poster.

[JeanGreyForever]

I'm obviously not branding all Chinese people as sexist. I'm simply trying to explain why something that I consider feminist such as Mulan's discontent with oppressive societal expectations and her desire for self-actualization could be seen negatively. I proposed that certain conservative cultural attitudes stem from systemic misogyny regardless if people care to admit it or not.

In any case, I still haven't understood your position on this. You claimed that Chinese people view Mulan as selfish and individualistic. Do you agree with that assessment?

But when I spoke up about how in eastern cultures, filial piety is a pretty big deal, while it's pretty much completely absent in western culture, you stated that you think that's just a cover to excuse the misogyny of these eastern cultures which I think is just an outrageous statement to make. And while there are definitely problematic and sexist aspects of gender roles in those cultures (as well as pretty much any culture in the world), filial piety is not one of them. That sounds as hamfisted as claiming Mulan is not a feminist because her actions in the film were motivated primarily by her father.

I personally don't see Mulan as selfish especially because her main motivation was to go to war to protect her father's life and her family's honor. Nor do I think individualism is a bad thing and I'm not sure I believe this idea that in ancient China, there wouldn't be a single person who ever existed who might stray from the cultural norms and seek betterment for her own self and not the collective. It sounds almost robotic (or more like propaganda), this idea that everyone in China would constantly cater to their country and never, not even for a second, consider doing something for themselves.

However, I'm just pointing out that many Chinese people had major issues with this characterization and felt Disney's Mulan was too westernized. And keep in mind, that the earlier drafts of the film were actually scrapped/altered because in those versions, Mulan was going to war primarily because she wanted an escape from her oppressive life and longed for more (thus in the vein of every other 90s Disney protagonist). Disney realized this version of Mulan was way too westernized and not authentic enough so her character arc was altered. Even so, they throw a little boon to this in that scene in the snow near the end when she confesses to Mushu and this is what Chinese audiences found problematic. Whereas a film like Kung Fu Panda was praised by Chinese audiences who felt it reflected their culture well and understood them unlike Disney's Mulan.

[D82]

In this Chinese TV spot, Mulan's father has different dialogue in English for the same scene than the American one. In the American one, he says "if I expose her, our own people will kill her" whereas in this one he says "if her identity is discovered, she will be in great danger". Is this a case of censorship?

The domestic version of that TV spot has now been released and Fa Zhou's line is not the same as the one in the Chinese version.

I much prefer these character posters to the domestic ones.

Me too except the one for Mulan that reuses the same image from the poster.

Yes, I think you're right. Mulan looks better in the domestic poster.

[Sotiris]

The American version of that TV spot has now been released and Fa Zhou's line is not like the one in the Chinese version.

That's three different versions of the same line. It has to be a censorship issue.

American trailer: "if I expose her, our own people will kill her"
American TV spot: "if her identity is discovered, she will be killed"
Chinese TV spot: "if her identity is discovered, she will be in great danger"

[D82]

^It's possible, because it's strange that that line is different in the latest TV spot when everything else is the same as in the Chinese one.

By the way, here's the Empire Magazine article scanned: https://twitter.com/liuyifeiclub/status ... 2478199809

[Disney's Divinity]

Jason Scott Lee doesn't look as sexeh as in the other character poster.

Is it just me or does the Witch look like something out of Power Rangers?

[Sotiris]

By the way, here's the Empire Magazine article scanned: https://twitter.com/liuyifeiclub/status ... 2478199809

Thanks for sharing that!

"One of the things that came back very clearly to us was that the treatment of the Emperor in the original movie was not accurate or respectful," says Reed.

Is the producer for real? Having a wise, kind, and dignified Emperor in the original is somehow disrespectful, but turning him into a ruthless, blood-thirsty killer is not? What the--?

"That's the biggest thing for me about making this in live-action — it can be real. It's a real story about a girl going to war. All that realism, in camera — it's cinema. It really thrills me."

It was real before too. Films don't have to be "realistic" to be cinema. That's such a narrow-minded perspective. It's baffling the director thinks her movie is realistic to begin with when it has impossible action sequences, choreographed martial arts combat, wire-flying, magic, and CG.

Is it just me or does the Witch look like something out of Power Rangers?

She does, but at least her get-up is colorful and creative unlike the rest of the costumes in the film.

[Sotiris]

Featurette:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LnPZo_M030

[JeanGreyForever]

https://twitter.com/getFANDOM/status/12 ... 41856?s=19

Looks like the romance has been cut from the film to be culturally correct.

[Sotiris]

To those still upset that an Asian filmmaker didn't get the job, Caro responds: "Although it's a critically important Chinese story and it's set in Chinese culture and history, there is another culture at play here, which is the culture of Disney, and that the director, whoever they were, needed to be able to handle both — and here I am."

Source: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/featu ... er-1280999

This is too much. She's trying to underplay the importance of having an Asian director by propping up the Disney elements of the story which she went and removed anyway.

The film needs to satisfy Chinese audiences raised on the legend while not disappointing a generation of fans in Asia (and elsewhere) for whom the animated film is foundational. "People would come in to audition and would say, 'Sorry, I know this is really unprofessional, but before I start, I just want you to know, the animated movie was the first time I saw someone that looked like me speak English in a movie theater,' " says producer Jason Reed. "The stakes couldn't be higher."

Source: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/featu ... er-1280999

In an ironic twist of fate, Disney going to all this trouble to appeal to the Chinese market, while alienating the rest of the world in the process (judging by box office projections), proved for naught now that it's out of commission. They'll have to rely on non-Chinese audiences for this film to be even a modest success.

As soon as the first trailers rolled out, so did the grumblings about factual inaccuracy, like the choice to situate Mulan's family in a tulou, a traditional round structure that housed several clans. These homes were mostly present in southern China, in what is now Fujian province (Mulan is said to be from the north), and would not have existed at the time she lived. "I told [Caro] to not be too concerned about the historical accuracy," says Kong. "Mulan, though very famous, is fictional. She's not a historical person."

Source: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/featu ... er-1280999

This is so hypocritical. Historical accuracy is important when it suits their narrative, but not important when it doesn't.

In an early version, Mulan kissed love interest Chen Honghui (Yoson An) on a bridge when they were about to part. "It was very beautiful, but the China office went, 'No, you can't, that doesn't feel right to the Chinese people,' " says Caro. "So we took it out."

Source: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/featu ... er-1280999

This is censorship. They're kowtowing to government-imposed "guidelines" about depictions of kissing in media. Them trying to spin it as a matter of cultural accuracy is laughable and honestly, offensive.

Most Disney remakes, like Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin and The Lion King, have remained loyal to the tone and structure of the animated source material while adding a new song or character. Departing from that formula wasn't a swift decision. "We had a lot of conversations about it," says Reed. Ultimately they wanted "to tell this story in a way that is more real, more relatable, where we don't have the benefit of the joke to hide behind things that might be uncomfortable and we don't break into song to tell us the subtext."

Source: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/featu ... er-1280999

Another remake producer bashing the original. How surprising.

[Disney's Divinity]

This is too much. She's trying to underplay the importance of having an Asian director by propping up the Disney elements to the story which she went and removed anyway.

It's also overlooking the fact that the story as it is now is still nothing like the original story. They took the "please nobody" approach.

In an ironic twist of fate, Disney going to all this trouble to appeal to the Chinese market, while alienating the rest of the world in the process (judging by box office projections), proved for naught now that it's out of commission. They'll have to rely on non-Chinese audiences for this film to be even a modest success.

I hadn't thought of that... Disney's just desserts? I still think it'll do enormously well in the U.S. simply because the animated film is beloved--and because the average theatergoer has no idea this is nothing like the film they grew up with.

I don't even know what the kissing thing is about. Do people not kiss in China?

[JeanGreyForever]

This is censorship. They're kowtowing to government-imposed "guidelines" about depictions of kissing in media. Them trying to spin it as a matter of cultural accuracy is laughable and honestly, offensive.

Most Disney remakes, like Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin and The Lion King, have remained loyal to the tone and structure of the animated source material while adding a new song or character. Departing from that formula wasn't a swift decision. "We had a lot of conversations about it," says Reed. Ultimately they wanted "to tell this story in a way that is more real, more relatable, where we don't have the benefit of the joke to hide behind things that might be uncomfortable and we don't break into song to tell us the subtext."

Source: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/featu ... er-1280999

Another remake producer bashing the original. How surprising.

Can you explain what guidelines China has towards kissing in their films that caused them to remove the kiss? I was never aware of any such official or unofficial rules. BTW, I would spoilertag that because a lot of people were speculating on that and it might bother them to be spoiled by it.

Personally I'm glad that someone is finally bashing the original Mulan film. It's been the trend in the Disney fandom to elevate Mulan as the most progressive, the most woke film, while bashing every other Disney film that came before it and even the ones afterwards. Whether or not the criticism is accurate, it's refreshing to see this film on the chopping block for once especially when far superior films like BATB and Aladdin were criticized for the most arbitrary of reasons.

Especially in the online Disney fandoms, Mulan fans have been some of the most virulent and caustic Disney fans I've ever met, especially towards fans of the classic Walt Disney or classic princess films. I know so many people online who have been relentlessly bullied and harassed by the Mulan fandom all in the name of "feminism." Honestly, they remind me of the Bernie Bros of the Disney fandom.

[JeanGreyForever]

In an ironic twist of fate, Disney going to all this trouble to appeal to the Chinese market, while alienating the rest of the world in the process (judging by box office projections), proved for naught now that it's out of commission. They'll have to rely on non-Chinese audiences for this film to be even a modest success.

I hadn't thought of that... Disney's just desserts?

Oh lord this is a gross statement. You're trivializing a pandemic that has claimed so many lives and will likely continue to take so many more into a personal grudge match against a company that didn't perfectly recreate for you the exact movie of your childhood. This is truly disgusting and just proves how many times I've said that there basically isn't a single page in this thread that doesn't feature some blatantly racist and offensive content against the Chinese, although this post certainly takes the cake.

[UmbrellaFish]

This new Mulan takes the Victor/Victoria angle to a whole new level— it’s an American story pretending to be a Chinese story pretending to be an American story pretending to be a Chinese story. Usually when you drag something through Google Translate this many times, nobody can understand it.

[Disney's Divinity]

Random thought, but I wonder if perhaps Mulan was still partly dressed up as a man when the kiss happened and that's why they cut it? All that talk about Shang unintentionally appearing somewhat bisexual in the original film might've raised its head again here and the Chinese government probably hates gay people as much as Russia, the country that banned B&tB.

[Sotiris]

Can you explain what guidelines China has towards kissing in their films that caused them to remove the kiss? I was never aware of any such official or unofficial rules.

There are a ton of rules imposed by government regulators for film, TV, and web content which includes restrictions on tattoos, earrings, and yes, even kissing. Depictions of kissing must be modest and not provocative in any way. Anything that suggests sexual pleasure is off limits. That's why in every Chinese film or TV show you see, people rarely kiss and when they do, it's with a closed mouth. I'm assuming that the kiss between Mulan and Chen was too steamy for their standards and that's why it was deemed inappropriate.

Personally I'm glad that someone is finally bashing the original Mulan film. It's been the trend in the Disney fandom to elevate Mulan as the most progressive, the most woke film, while bashing every other Disney film that came before it and even the ones afterwards.

I don't like that trend in the fandom either, but he's not criticizing it in terms of its gender politics or its progressiveness. He mostly criticized the use of humor and the songs. He's just another producer who feels the need to put down the original to justify the remake's existence.

This new Mulan takes the Victor/Victoria angle to a whole new level— it’s an American story pretending to be a Chinese story pretending to be an American story pretending to be a Chinese story.

Random thought, but I wonder if perhaps Mulan was still partly dressed up as a man when the kiss happened and that's why they cut it?

It would be a problem if they kissed when Mulan was still pretending to be a man and Chen didn't know about it, but I doubt kissing in the half-armor with loose, long hair would have been an issue.

All that talk about Shang unintentionally appearing somewhat bisexual in the original film might've raised its head again here.

Online speculation and fan activity can have real consequences sometimes. Elsa briefly holding Honeymaren's hand in Frozen 2 was censored in some countries because the internet insisted they were girlfriends.