Sleeping Beauty Discussion

[2099net]

Sleeping Beauty is like a cake that has ornate decorative frosting all over it, but once you cut out a slice, you find the actual cake inside is just plain sponge, rather than have any cream, jam or butterscotch. Personally, I prefer my cakes to have some filling.

[Beast_enchantment]

Sleeping Beauty is like a cake that has ornate decorative frosting all over it, but once you cut out a slice, you find the actual cake inside is just plain sponge, rather than have any cream, jam or butterscotch. Personally, I prefer my cakes to have some filling.

that's a pretty accurate analogy. i couldn't put it better myself!
it's appetizing yet bland.

[Marky_198]

Sleeping Beauty is my favourite Disney Classic of all time.

I love the animation, the artwork, the music, the story and the characters.
The overal classical look and maturity of the film.
I also love the true romantic feeling of the movie. No silly jokes that ruin the moments like the current Disney movies.
I have too many favourite scenes to mention, but here are a few;
The gifts of beauty are stunning, the harmonies are so perfect and clear.
I loved the gift of song where you see Aurora sitting and hear her sing in the background.
The scene where the fairies make the plan of raising Aurora, and the change to common lady's in the mirror.
The scene of Aurora walking in the forest and singing high. And the whole forest scene afterwards.
The part when the fairies make the dress with magic. You see the scissors cut the sleeve and the needle going in and out on the music.
The part when Aurora is hypnotised, it's so haunting.
The scene when maleficent visits prince Philip in the dungeon and starts a speech.

This has been and always will be my favourite Disney movie.
This is how it started:

When I visited my grandmother as a little kid I always found very old Donald Ducks in a box. Some of those magazines were from the 50's, the time Sleeping Beauty first came out. There were pictures, screenshots of the movie, from scenes with the 3 fairies, Maleficent, prince Philip and Aurora. I was absolutely fascinated from the moment I saw them.
This happened around 1986 I'm 25 now.

Whenever I found an old book somewhere in a shop, or a LP or cassette, or a puzzle of Sleeping Beauty I was completey obsessed.

One year later, around 1987, there was this vhs video for rent in our local video store. This was almost too much for me. It was the actual movie. I couldn't believe how fortunate I was to be able to see the real movie. This magical, original thing.
I was so grateful. I rented it and loved it. Everything fell into place, it was the most magical moment a kid can experience. My jaw dropped.
I rented the movie every week. I remember the man in the video store asking; "Are you sure you want this one? You've rented it 17 times before".

But I couldn't get enough of it. With pain in my heart I brought it back every time. I always was afraid that if other people would rent it, they wouldn't be careful enough and the tape could get damaged.
Sometimes I went to the videostore on my bike, just to see the keep case on the shelf and look at the pictures and read the back.

I was so little then, I lived in a small village and this was all I knew.
It was the first Disney movie I ever watched.
I was the only one that was fond of Disney or even knew well what it was.
At that time, there were no Disney movies for sale in shops whatsoever.
The whole business just didn't exist at that time.
Eventually there was this friend of my parents who had 2 videorecorders and he copied the tape for me. I was so happy.
I went to the book store, made a black and white copy of the cover and kept the video under my pillow for years.

After a few years the tape was completely worn out and it wasn't until 10!!! years later till the movie officially came out on video again. (1996 or something? That was the first time sleeping Beauty came out commercially).
Around that time Disney home video was popular and all the classics came out on video. A lot of them for the first time, like Snowwhite and Cinderella. Suddenly everyone was watching the movies and knew what "Sleeping Beauty" was.

Now I have the movie on dvd of course, and even have some foreign versions. I'm from Holland, but I love the Italian version for example. It sounds like an opera.

This movie became such a big part of my life and a big part of my childhood revolves around it. I don't think people nowadays realize how special it is that all the classics are so easily available in stores.

I notice that my vision of beauty nowadays is really based on that movie.

When I watch the movie today, I still have that same, classical feeling.
The movie has so much grace and class, no other Disney movie can live up to that. This is Disney at it's best.
One big piece of art.

[Marky_198]

.

that's a pretty accurate analogy. i couldn't put it better myself!
it's appetizing yet bland.

Don't you have any imagination?
There is so much more to those characters than you might think when you watch the movie with such a shallow eye.

[Disney Duster]

"Marky_198, that was beautiful. Your story is inspiring, and somehow magical, like I could get a sense of what you were feeling as you went to the video store on your bike.

I wasn't that immersed into my personal favorite, "Cinderella", but perhaps that's because I'm a little younger than you (19) and "Cinderella" was always available to me, as I owned it. But I didn't just watch the movie, I would stare at the cover, which had my favorite scene (the fairy godmother working her magic), and drew and drew lots of Cinderella pictures (mostly with the fairy godmother and magic). It also gave me some interest in all pumpkins and clocks and losing shoes.

I also developed interest in spinning wheels from watching "Sleeping Beauty" with my girl cousin (I'm a boy, by the way) who was only 3 months apart from me in age. In fact, one time at a historical place that showed artifacts from older times, there was a spinning wheel my mom told me not to touch because it was antique and I could break it, but I touched it anyway and she made me and my dad leave with her right away! I wanted something magical to happen to me. My cousin and I would fight over which color Aurora's dress looked best in, like the fairies (I picked blue, she picked pink). But the "Sleeping Beauty" tape was a rental from the library (we didn't get it as often as you!), and one day we went to rent it and they didn't have it anymore!

After that, I, too, would look longingly at books and pictures of "Sleeping Beauty" because I was too young to remember very much about the movie. I was very excited when it came out again, and invited my aunt and two cousins, including the one who used to watch it with me, over to watch the new, restored VHS with my mom and me in a little party to celebrate.

Now, I love and appreciate the movie more than ever as the most beautifully, perfectly animated movie of all time. It threatens constantly to overthrow "Cinderella" as my favorite film, and I sometimes wonder if I wish "Cinderella" had been done as perfectly as "Sleeping Beauty", which was drawn so that every frame was a work of art that could be put in a frame! I also appreciate the music more, and while I used to be bored with Aurora's walk through the forest, I'm now mature enough to consider it one of the best parts because it's so beautiful to see and hear. And I do like opera music, now.

"Sleeping Beauty" is a movie for animation and art lovers. There's nothing wrong with a film that is better in look than story or character as long as the look trumps the flaws, which I feel is "Sleeping Beauty"'s case. But even when it comes to story and character, the story may be simple but it's powerful in it's characterization of pure evil and true love, and the characters include a prince who outshines the two that came before him and powerful women with mysterious motives and abilities, as well as great line delivery in Maleficent's favour. Even Aurora's commonly labeled under-devoplment could be thought of as a result of only receiving two gifts out of three she may have needed to be happy, and she was raised by three fairies who didn't always know best with no other humans around to talk to or expand her horizens. She's a little like a baby probably because her aunts were extremely over-protective, and we can expect Phillip to offer something else.

Think of ballet, which many people have said are thin on story and characters but big on sets, costumes, and dancing, and are ultimately boring. Those accusations have come ( or could come) to "Sleeping Beauty" as well, but ballet is enjoyed by what are regarded as higher classes, made up of artistic, sophisticated, classy people. Maybe that's the best audience for "Sleeping Beauty", too.

[Escapay]

that's a pretty accurate analogy. i couldn't put it better myself!
it's appetizing yet bland.

Don't you have any imagination?
There is so much more to those characters than you might think when you watch the movie with such a shallow eye.

Let's all try and remember that just because someone else's opinion is different from yours, it doesn't mean it's wrong*. Nor does it mean anyone should make remarks like the one above.

Anyway, my relationship with Sleeping Beauty came about because we had just gotten a second VCR, and my parents decided that rather than pay for a boatload of Disney movies that we didn't already have, we'd just rent them and copy them onto VHS. Plus, when recording at SLP, you could squeeze about three films onto one tape, making it perfect for marathon viewings! Yep, that do-not-copy law was broken many a times in the Escapay household, and we didn't care one bit. I still remember summer vacations of the early 90s when we'd watch Sleeping Beauty, Bambi (minus the last 5 minutes), and Pinocchio in about 3 hours straight, then proceed to the next VHS (which had Dumbo, Lady and the Tramp, and "Faerie Tale Theatre: The Three Little Pigs"). We actually had the VHS tapes for Fantasia, Cinderella, Peter Pan, 101 Dalmatians, The Great Mouse Detective, The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, and Aladdin, so those we'd watch whenever. But if we ever chose to watch a "marathon" tape, we'd watch the entire thing.

But anyways, back to Sleeping Beauty. It was one of our favorites growing up, especially anything with the Three Good Fairies. During the cottage sequences, we'd act it out along with them, using blankets and a stool for the dress, and my sister's kitchen toys to make a cake tower. Usually the three of us would take turns being each fairy every time we watched the film, because we all liked each part. But usually it would end up with me being Flora (I preferred it because she'd throw the dress over Merryweather), our poor little brother Kram was Merryweather (hehe...throw a blanket over my brother!), and Jane loved being Fauna, mainly because of the stigma among the three of us that the girls cook (yeah, we outgrew that, Kram and I know how to cook more than Jane!). During the actual magic part when they get the wands, we'd take these long unsharpened pencils (which each had different colors), and pretend they were wands, and kind of just jump around the room waving them, pretending that we were making a dress, cleaning up, or making a cake. It all was pretty corny, I know, but we enjoyed every minute of it. Usually it was just the two cottage sequences we'd act out, everything else we'd really just watch with rapt attention.

Around 1995/1996 or so, I entered the standard "Disney's for kids! I'm not a kid anymore!" phase, and watched the film less and less, but it wasn't until I was about 15 or 16 that I started rewatching a lot of my childhood films out of nostalgia, and naturally one of them was Sleeping Beauty. At the time, I think my feelings for it had grown into a "oh my god, a princess film...but I'm strangely drawn towards it!" and I had settled on saying that I liked it most because of Maleficent being badass and Prince Phillip actually getting a piece of the action. I don't think I started to really appreciate Sleeping Beauty (in the artistic sense that everyone else seems to have had at birth) until years later when Kram got the DVD. Widescreen really did make a difference!

Over the past few years, Sleeping Beauty has consistently been in my top ten favorite Disney Animated Classics, and it's a position that I've always fought about. I would include it because of the breathtaking visuals and its use of classical music, but then I'd want to remove it because of the paint-by-numbers characters and the plot-hole-ridden story. Usually the visuals and music win out over any problems I have with the film (of which there are quite a few!). I can still sit down and watch the film with some enjoyment, but usually I have to be in the right mood, which is why I haven't watched it in a few months.

I do love talking about the film, though. Thanks to its plotline inconsistencies (or just the lack of enough detail to the plot), I've had the pleasure of participating and reading many a thread at UD about the film, ranging from stuff like "Who's the smartest fairy?" to "Can we consider Aurora a true heroine or a human prop?". And of course, there's always worthwhile discussion of who voiced the Queen.

Scaps

*It doesn't mean it's right either, but let's not open up that can of worms, lest we turn this thread into something uglier than Maleficent's goons!

[2099net]

Don't you have any imagination?
There is so much more to those characters than you might think when you watch the movie with such a shallow eye.

I'd love for you to describe the character's to me then. All I can see is:

* A villain who does nothing at all for 16 years. She obviously has the inteligence and drive to find the Princess, but instead lets her stupid underlings blunder about for - and I repeat - 16 years. (And it really takes her 16 years to find out that they are still looking for a baby? How believeable is that?)

* A Princess who does nothing at all. Full stop.

* A Prince who does nothing at all, and certainly isn't heroic (he lets himself get captured, and even his final fight owes more to his horse and the faries than himself)

* A King and Queen who are weak and allow themselves to be bullied in their own kingdom.

* And three Fairies who apparently could stop the main villain if they put their mind to it, but didn't for at least 16 years.

The story is a mess. It's either non-existant or when it is there, in contradicts itself and is filled in illogic.

That's why I say it is "plain" and has no filling. If even a fraction of the time that was spent on the visuals was spent on the story it would be infinitely better.

[L&E]

Sleeping Beauty is my second favorite animated film ever. I strongly believe that my fandom over Sleeping Beauty is because of the voices.

As a Mexican, I grew up listening the wonderful Spanish dubbing and trust me, it is amazing. Maleficent's voice is so powerful, and the 3 Good Fairies have such a personality. Aurora's voice is so warm and tender. Sleeping Beauty remains a favorite Disney film in Mexico because of its dubbing and because of its version of 'Once Upon a Dream', named 'Eres tú el Príncipe Azul' (Something like 'You are Prince Charming').

But everything went to the trash can when the Special Edition arrived in 2003. Seems that wonderful opera singer Lúpita Pérez Arias (who sang the part of Aurora) sued Disney years before because of royalties on the VHS sales. Lots of fans from South America and Spain are constantly complaining about the redubbing (which of course lacks of any emotion and none of the actors chosen can barely get as high as the previous) and have asked Disney to change it. But of course nothing has happened. Our last hope to get the original 1959 Spanish dub remains upon the release of the upcoming Platinum Edition. All of the actors used on the first dub were major film stars of the Golden Era of Mexican cinema, and that's why the dubbing is so special and impressive.

[Marky_198]

Disney Duster, that's a great story.
I absolutely agree.

I loved the story's of you as a kid with Sleeping Beauty.
I wonder how many Disney movies do that to kids nowadays.

Ps. It seems like you had the 1991 video of Cinderella then. The first time it came out on video.

[Marky_198]

Escapay, of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I guess what I wanted to say is that with more imagination, people would understand the characters and the movie better. I find it interesting that people who understand and see the beauty, the romance, the genuine feeling, the fantastic music, the artwork, think this movie is fantastic, and people that only look at the plot, action, and story inconcistencies don't.

I actually believe this is not a movie for kids. Just a piece of art for classy, older people, who understand life, art and beauty

[Marky_198]

Don't you have any imagination?
There is so much more to those characters than you might think when you watch the movie with such a shallow eye.

I'd love for you to describe the character's to me then. All I can see is:

* A villain who does nothing at all for 16 years. She obviously has the inteligence and drive to find the Princess, but instead lets her stupid underlings blunder about for - and I repeat - 16 years. (And it really takes her 16 years to find out that they are still looking for a baby? How believeable is that?)

She IS looking for the princess. It almost drives her crazy.
Those underlings are not the smartest, social beings, so I suppose they don't have a little chat with Maleficent all the time.
"How believeable is that"? It's animation. How believeable is it to make a cake and dress with magic. To have animals dance in a prince clothes, to have mermaids transformed to people.

* A Princess who does nothing at all. Full stop.

Aurora was raised by only the 3 fairies. She is overly protected.
She's looking for who she truly is. She's a genuinine, sweet person.
For years, she's been fooling the fairies with her secret fantasies about a man. She's torn between 2 things. In spite of her desires, she runs away from the prince after they've met. Because she knows she isn't allowed to speak to him. But her desire is too strong and she shouts to him that they can meet that night in the cottage. After that, she is honest enought to tell the fairies what happened. A fantastic personality.
Besides, I think it's great to imagine when this desire for a man started.
What she's been doing as a kid. Helping the fairies with cooking, cleaning the house. Getting lessons, learn how to read, speak, write, behave and discover she could sing, etc.

* A Prince who does nothing at all, and certainly isn't heroic (he lets himself get captured, and even his final fight owes more to his horse and the faries than himself)

?? A prince with a very strong personality. He know what he wants.
I love they way how he gets the horse to do what he wants. When he hears Aurora sing he is determined to find out what/who it is. He jumps into the dance in the forest, how romantic is that? When Aurora tells him they can never meet again he panics a bit. This is not what he wants. He tries everything to see her again. At home, when he sees his father he tells the story, he goes against everything his father says. That's how strong his personality is. As he is captured in the cottage, no one could have gotten out of there with all those beast jumping on to you. I love the scene with Maleficent in the Dungeon. She's doing her speech, and he doesn't say anything. You can see the anger in his eyes. He knows he's going to win, just not yet how. The escape and the fight are just heroic.
So you think you're only a hero when you never get caught?
So, "A prince who does nothing at all"? Have you seen Snowwhite and Cinderella?

* A King and Queen who are weak and allow themselves to be bullied in their own kingdom.

They are just people. They are completely intimidated by the magic.
The can't do anything about it and feel helpless.
Completely normal.

* And three Fairies who apparently could stop the main villain if they put their mind to it, but didn't for at least 16 years.

They had a great plan, and the plan lasted for 16 years. The plan they've put their mind to.
She should prick her finger before her 16th birthday. It might as well could have happened when she was 9 or 10.
That's why it's so tragic. It happens at the last moment.

The story is a mess. It's either non-existant or when it is there, in contradicts itself and is filled in illogic.

Every movie ever made is filled in illogic.
I love Sleeping Beauty's story. In fact. I've never seen such a genuinine, true love story somewhere else. When I watch the movie, I feel like I know the characters, I know exactly what they want, from the romantic scenes to the scary scenes, when Prince Philip is captured, for me, it's the perfect story.

That's why I say it is "plain" and has no filling. If even a fraction of the time that was spent on the visuals was spent on the story it would be infinitely better.

* edited by mod to fix quoting

[MagicMirror]

It's interesting that so many here are saying that, the older and more sophisticated you are, the more you will like this film; for me it's the complete opposite. I loved the film when I was young, but it has really gone down on my list in comparison to films I consider greater artistic successes, like 'Snow White' through to 'Bambi', '101 Dalmatians', and I think even 'Cinderella' (interestingly, none of these films were my top favourites when I was young).

There's no doubt that every single frame in the film is beautiful. Put them all together, however, and make them move, and the animation itself is very stilted. I think I rather unkindly said in another post that it is as though every character had been sitting on a bayonet, but you can probably see what I mean - there isn't that much creativity in the animation (beautiful as it is), as it invariably plays second fiddle to the backgrounds.

I compare 'Sleeping Beauty' unfavourably to 'Pinocchio', which also has very detailled backgrounds, but uses lighting and composition to allow the animation to take centre stage. In 'Sleeping Beauty' there is no such balance; the detail is concentrated throughout the whole image. While this is an interesting route to consider, I don't think it ultimately works.

The real reason I think the film manages to get by is, of course, Maleficent, whose black silhouette just about manages to overpower the beautiful but ill-composed backgrounds. Her similarities to the Queen are as great a reminder than any that the film is basically the poor man's 'Snow White', but she's still a good villain and at times seems to be in control of the cinematic devices in the film (though, strangely, not as much as the non-magical Lady Tremaine). And, of course, Eleanor Audley's voice and Marc Davis' animation are brilliant. She is subject to more creative animation than any other character in the film. The scene where she lures Aurora to her death and the climactic battle are the two best scenes in the film; unfortunately there's a lot of unnecessary filler between.

I sound very negative when, in fact, I do like the draughtsmanship shown in the animation, as well as the amazing score. My main point is that, many here use the fact that the film was so expensive and took a lot of work as proof that it was an artistic success; I would argue that this is perhaps not necessarily the case, and, though there's a lot to appreciate, I tend to consider the film an artistic failure overall.

[2099net]

She IS looking for the princess. It almost drives her crazy.
Those underlings are not the smartest, social beings, so I suppose they don't have a little chat with Maleficent all the time.
"How believeable is that"? It's animation. How believeable is it to make a cake and dress with magic. To have animals dance in a prince clothes, to have mermaids transformed to people.

But that's no excuse. Every good story has internal logic, and Maleficent
has none.

Here we have the villain who is supposedly Disney's best, and she's an idiot. She is presented as an idiot. Even Yzma in The Emperor's New Groove (who, may I remind you was devised as a comedy character) has more going on in the plot/plan/scheme side of things. Disney's greatest villain, who does nothing for sixteen years, letting her dim underlings fool about instead.

Aurora was raised by only the 3 fairies. She is overly protected.
She's looking for who she truly is. She's a genuinine, sweet person.

She maybe, but genuine sweet people generally don't lead to good drama. Only if they end up suffering, and arguably Aurora never does. At least Cinderella and Snow White suffered more (in both instances the bulk of which was off-screen before the film started). Aurora just lives in ignorance.

A prince with a very strong personality. He know what he wants.
... The escape and the fight are just heroic.

No they're not. The fairies do all the work.

So you think you're only a hero when you never get caught?
So, "A prince who does nothing at all"? Have you seen Snowwhite and Cinderella?

Well, it would be nice for the hero to actually be herotic without his "back-up" fairy army don't you think? And who says I regard the princes in Snow White or Cinderella in any higher regard?

They are just people. They are completely intimidated by the magic. The can't do anything about it and feel helpless. Completely normal.

But again normal/helpless people don't make for good drama/entertainment. Considering the sacrifice that they did make (giving up a child) hardly any of the concequences were shown.

They had a great plan, and the plan lasted for 16 years. The plan they've put their mind to. She should prick her finger before her 16th birthday. It might as well could have happened when she was 9 or 10.
That's why it's so tragic. It happens at the last moment.

The plan was basically to hide. Which is odd, considering when the crunch came, the faries could defeat Maleficent - because they did. We saw it at the end of the movie. So basically, they wasted 16 years of their lives hiding out in the forest.

Every movie ever made is filled in illogic.
I love Sleeping Beauty's story. In fact. I've never seen such a genuinine, true love story somewhere else. When I watch the movie, I feel like I know the characters, I know exactly what they want, from the romantic scenes to the scary scenes, when Prince Philip is captured, for me, it's the perfect story.

There's a difference between plot holes and vast, complete segments of plot that have no motivation or seemingly contradict what we were shown/told earlier.

Why is Maleficent evil? Why did she curse the child? Obviously for her curse to come true, she still had to influence Aurora's life to some extent? So it wasn't really a curse or a prophesy. Presumably Maleficent knew how limited her "goons" were, so why did she wait almost a full sixteen years of their failures before actually questioning them or their progress? And being as it was the eve of Aurora's sixteenth birthday, when it looked likely that they would be found, why not just hide elsewhere rather than go to the castle? They only had to remain hidden for another few hours! And the logic of putting the whole kindom to sleep is a bit far fetched don't you think? Why not just put the whole kindom to sleep or similar when the baby is cursed until they find a "cure" then? Where did the sword of virtue and the shield of love (or whatever they are) come from? Could the fairies summon these all the time? Why didn't they use them before?

I'm sorry, but the story can be written on the back of a postcard it's so threadbare. In Sleeping Beauty, stuff just happens, because it can, and who cares why?

Look at films like Pixar's, and everything that happens happens for a reason - be it to plant plot foreshadowing, describe or enhance character or to describe or enhance the threat. Not a single line is wasted.

[Someday...]

The plan was basically to hide. Which is odd, considering when the crunch came, the faries could defeat Maleficent - because they did. We saw it at the end of the movie. So basically, they wasted 16 years of their lives hiding out in the forest.

As stated in the film:
"I'd like to turn her into a fat ol' hoptoad"
"Now now dear, you know our magic doesn't work that way"
THEY cannot defeat maleficent themselves,
however with a catalyst like Prince Phillip, Maleficent can be defeated

[supertalies]

I wonder how many Disney movies do that to kids nowadays.

Not much children, I think...With those action movies..
Well, I don't have a real HIstory with Sleeping beauty, but I am a little bit younger than you (I'm 16 ,almost 17).
I had almost ALL the disney classics ,my mother did buy it for me.
In Dutch offcourse. My old favourites were The Little Mermaid and Cinderella. (I have something with mermaids and lost shoes...)
I remember I did find SB a bit (sorry..) boring, wich is why i didn't watch it allot.Especially the Forest walk and Once upon a dream..
But I became older and I began to like the story and the animation and songs.
And now I adore the movie..


(Trouwens, Marky_198. Jouw verhaal was errug mooi en inspirerend..!)

[Beast_enchantment]

I love Sleeping Beauty's story. In fact. I've never seen such a genuinine, true love story somewhere else. When I watch the movie, I feel like I know the characters, I know exactly what they want, from the romantic scenes to the scary scenes, when Prince Philip is captured, for me, it's the perfect story.

Genuine, true love story? they have one encounter in the whole film. there is no relationship. they don't know eachother. there is no development. Yes, maybe it was love at first sight but it certainly isnt the most genuine love story! what about Beauty and the Beast? the main focus of that movie was to see Belle and the Beast's relationship grow, while maintaning an interesting plot - something Sleeping Beauty doesn't do. Belle despises him for imprisoning her, but grows to love him when she realises his true colours and despite his terrifying appearance - to me that is a hell of alot more a genuine, true love. a love that isnt restricted to character's visual qualities e.g Rose/Aurora(she is the most beautifully designed disney princess i have ever seen - which is the film's strongest aspect, but she is dead below the surface. she is a tapestry, not a character).
so to say that it is the most genuine, true love is utter rubbish. Rose and Phillip have no chemistry. the same can be said for Snow White and her prince - he gets less character developemnet than Phillip, but Snow White and the seven Dwarfs manages to overcome this aspect with a good, strong main character, entertaining secondry characters, an interesting villian that does considerably more than Maleficent, and an overall enticing plot and narrative structure - Sleeping Beauty lacks these.

Don't get me wrong, i really like Sleeping Beauty for it's visual qualities and some really impressive scenes (Aurora and the spindle, the climax) but the majority is just... well... lacklustre!

[Disney Duster]

OKAY! I've a lot of quoting to do, but isn't this a great discussion, everyone?:

Escapay, you don't get a quote because your whole post was wonderful, I never knew you acted out Disney movies, which is exactly what I did when I was young (flashback of waiting in my room for my mom to kiss me to wak me up, and crying because she never came: I never told her I was playing the game in the first place!). And it's even better because you didn't have anything against playing a female fairy or making a dress. Though, curiously I'd say male chefs are more accepted as manly than male fashion designers, so why the real girl sibling had to be the cook I'll never know, I'm betting you just wanted to torture Kram with the blankets! Ah, the wonder of children, who aren't or worried about what other people think, like adults.

L&E, sorry about that, that's horrible, and it seems to have happened (a bad, emotionless re-dubbing to a classic Disney film) in a lot of other countries... I hope it is fixed for the Blu-Ray, start a petition or write letters to them!

Ps. It seems like you had the 1991 video of Cinderella then. The first time it came out on video.

If it had Cinderella in her torn pink dress, the fairy godmother, and that magical pumpkin, yes! See it here: Old Disney VHS Covers

It's interesting that so many here are saying that, the older and more sophisticated you are, the more you will like this film; for me it's the complete opposite. I loved the film when I was young, but it has really gone down on my list in comparison to films I consider greater artistic successes, like 'Snow White' through to 'Bambi', '101 Dalmatians', and I think even 'Cinderella' (interestingly, none of these films were my top favourites when I was young).

I love reading whenever you post about a film! Well, about a film that I have interest in. I'm glad you even see artistic greatness in my favorite, "Cinderella". Anyway, I guess I need to see the other post about the "bayonet animation", care to give a link, if you remember where it is?

As to the things you brought up, first off, as an adult now who's starting to appreciate and notice more about films, I don't personally love "Pinocchio" or "Snow White"'s water-color-like backgrounds. I admit they are beautiful, and see how they're more detailed and distinct than the later films', but I'm just not a fan, really, though it's undeniable they are beautiful and works of art, and sometimes they will jump out at me, like the part of the forest where Snow White lies in the glass coffin, I do find that very impressive.

But when I watch "Sleeping Beauty", everything stands out to me, and while you say the backgrounds are "too" present, too bold, too detailed, and overshadow the characters, I like the whole picture, I appreciate the whole picture, the animation andthe backgrounds, one doesn't seem to grab my attention over the other, they both get it. But that's my opinion. So I guess it comes down to: you agree with a lot of the critics so you may be more "right" than I am, but non of what bothers you bothers me, and so I enjoy the film more! Admittedly, I haven't had any schooling on animation, and the books I own haven't taught me too much about it, so maybe I could see more what you mean and agree with you more if I knew what you knew. However, I still think it comes down to liking what I see or not liking what I see.

My main point is that, many here use the fact that the film was so expensive and took a lot of work as proof that it was an artistic success; I would argue that this is perhaps not necessarily the case, and, though there's a lot to appreciate, I tend to consider the film an artistic failure overall.

If "many here" is any of the people on this page 3 of the thread, no one mentioned how much work was put in or the expense. I just like what I see, and it may be evident they put so much time in making so many details in the backgrounds, but I don't care how or how long they did it, what I see is something beautiful that makes me want to watch the film.

2099net, I think the fault of most of your argements with the film lie in forgetting the symbolism and dogma and, dare I say, religion of "Sleeping Beauty". Maleficent represents pure evil, almost the Devil himself if she can call the powers of hell. Even the Devil arguably had reason for becoming bad, he wanted to overthrow God and become God, and we actually could argue a reason for Maleficent's evil is that she wants to be like a god (evidenced by her pride being hurt at not being invited when everyone else is) or ruler of the land (strongly evidenced by her living in a castle where the King and Queen should have the only castle). But aside from that, there's also a common personification of evil as something without reason, an unstoppable killing machine, and there's often the question asked, "Why does God allow bad things to happen?" or simpler, "Why do bad things happen?" Maleficent is evil incarnate, and the evil inside her governs her actions. She is like the monsoon that has no purpose but to destroy an entire village, or the ravage animal that kills on instinct.

As for Aurora living in ignorance, I find that sadder and more adult than the plights of the other princesses, in a way. While Snow White and Cinderella worry about an outside threat, Aurora's threat is her own lack of knowledge or human contact. She really should be happy, she's been raised by loving aunts, no evil stepmother, and no one's making her work or being mean to her. But she's so sad even as she gets to take a walk through the forest. She's bored. And she feels there is something missing in her life, and she thinks it may be a prince, but it's probably also that she never knew her parents, doesn't know any real humans, and has been overly-protected all her life. It's a more complicated sadness than that of the other princesses.

As for the fairies, while Marky provided the point of needing someone who wasn't inherently good, they also needed True Love. This is a kid's movie, so they have to embody the love in a man, not a lesbian princess, but the idea is that, while their magic could do a lot, they had to work in tandem with the power of True Love (or, if you want to be a cynical feminist, suspect they needed the power of a man, but I'm pretty sure Walt was intending True Love). Their shield and sword probably wouldn't work for them, but would work for the man Aurora fell in love with, and who loves her in return.

It really doesn't matter what someone has to do to get a curse fulfilled, all that matters is the curse is fulfilled, and because it was, I can always argue fate killed Aurora. Even if action did have to be taken for it to come true, Maleficent just needed to know where the girl was, and the fairies' own bumblings really did their princess in.

Maleficent's ineffectual goons, while obviously there for humour, could also be there to show that Maleficent is so evil only dumb creatures are brave enough to work for her, or she's so evil they're the best she can get, because the wicked doesn't deserve a better army. Or perhaps their stupidity makes them perfect for controlling. But she probably considers them so insignificant she just wants to tell them what to do and not have to explain everything, so they go do it and she keeps saying "don't talk to me until you find her!" until she finally breaks down after 16 years.

And being as it was the eve of Aurora's sixteenth birthday, when it looked likely that they would be found, why not just hide elsewhere rather than go to the castle? They only had to remain hidden for another few hours!

How did they it look to them it was likely the'd be found? They didn't see Maleficent's raven. I suppose they could have stayed in the cottage, but I'm sure King Stephen and the Queen wanted their daughter ASAP, so they delivered her pretty much JUST before sunset (you can see the sun set out the window after the fairies gather around the fallen Aurora), and her parents would expect to see Aurora appear right after.

As for Aurora and Phillip's love, it's much more romantic to say these people love each other (or will love each other) so much, they just need to dance and sing together to know it. Of course it's far-fetched, but so is the entire movie. It was best to have them fall in love this way. Besides, of course Aurora would at least think she was in love with the first human, and the first man, she ever saw in person!

[2099net]

2099net, I think the fault of most of your argements with the film lie in forgetting the symbolism and dogma and, dare I say, religion of "Sleeping Beauty". Maleficent represents pure evil, almost the Devil himself if she can call the powers of hell. Even the Devil arguably had reason for becoming bad, he wanted to overthrow God and become God, and we actually could argue a reason for Maleficent's evil is that she wants to be like a god (evidenced by her pride being hurt at not being invited when everyone else is) or ruler of the land (strongly evidenced by her living in a castle where the King and Queen should have the only castle). But aside from that, there's also a common personification of evil as something without reason, an unstoppable killing machine, and there's often the question asked, "Why does God allow bad things to happen?" or simpler, "Why do bad things happen?" Maleficent is evil incarnate, and the evil inside her governs her actions. She is like the monsoon that has no purpose but to destroy an entire village, or the ravage animal that kills on instinct.

But my problem is, she doesn't actually do any of that. We're not even told that she's done anything at all even approaching that in the past.

We can assume that she obviously did something bad rather than just naughty, but the kindom at the start hardly seems to be in any state of desolation or disrepair. The crowds may stand and gasp in shock when she appears at the christening, but nobody panics, or screams, or faints.

In short, we have to take Maleficent's evil in nothing but faith. We have to have faith that she is evil, and personally, even by the end of the movie, that faith is unrewarded (the dragon climax is way to short and easily taken care of).

* * *

My whole issue with Sleeping Beauty is its obvious all the time was spent on the visuals and not the script. There is no drama. No tension. We don't learn enough about anybody to care about them. Now the usual excuses will come out... "its for children" or "its a fairytale" but, before you say that compare it to Snow White or Cinderella. Snow White certainly has more character and personality in the dwarfs, even if they are by nature stereotypical. And it has tension, the whole hag queen offering the poisoned apple scene is full of tension. Same with Cinderella. The mice and heck, even Lucifer the non-speaking cat, get more character development than anyone in Sleeping Beauty. And again, there's drama and tension when the mice are on their missions or even the midnight deadline. Is there ever any drama or tension in Sleeping Beauty, even when the Prince is fleeing Maleficent's castle/fighting her? Seconds within encountering a problem, its magiced (is that a word?) away!

[BrandonH]

SB is not overly focused on story logic, but I would like to mention one possible solution to the question posed about the 16 years Maleficent's goons were searching for Aurora. She may not have been singularly obsessed with the mission. We don't know exactly what she was doing during that time. She could have been searching but in the wrong places. My guess is that she was terrorizing other people, since we see a skeleton in her lair.

She definitely underestimated the stupidity level of her workers, but nobody said evil had to be perfect. In fact, it's comforting that it's not.

[Escapay]

Escapay, you don't get a quote

*imagines the Soup Nazi wearing Cinderella's dress and throwing dust around*

NO QUOTE FOR YOU!

Anyway, Sleeping Beauty and Mary Poppins stand out as the two we'd most often act out, as both led to great comedic moments as well as exercise (well..."Step in Time" at least). And that story about you and your mother is priceless! (I know I use the word often, but I really do mean it!). Poor Sleeping Mike, not getting woken up! And I think we always made Jane be Fauna because there's only so many ways to stack up toy dishes and cups and I never enjoyed it as much as I did throwing blankets over Kram! You know me too well, Mike!

And being as it was the eve of Aurora's sixteenth birthday, when it looked likely that they would be found, why not just hide elsewhere rather than go to the castle? They only had to remain hidden for another few hours!

That's often one of my big problems with the story. Because even though the King and Queen would be anxious for their return, the fairies should have known that there'd still be a chance that Maleficent might have found them and set something up. And the fact that they left her alone in the castle, even for a couple minutes, was really really stupid. Why all the secrecy in entering the castle anyway? You'd think that with the antici...pation of her return that the king would have extra guards, every precaution necessary to make sure she stays away from spindles.

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