What's your favorite movie in the Disney Revival so far?

[Farerb]

I honestly don't know how to rank them because I don't really care about most of them.

1-2. Moana and The Princess and the Frog:
I love Moana and The Princess and the Frog. The Princess and the Frog is the only one that feels like a genuine classic Disney film, and probably the only film that does since Fantasia 2000.
I would have said the same about Moana if it had been made with hand drawn animation, and cut some of its meta jokes. I still love Moana (the character), her journey and the themes of the movie. I've been reading Tolkien lately, and I know NO ONE here will ever agree with that, but something about Moana's themes reminds me of Tolkien's themes. It especially occurred to me while reading the Voyage of Eärendil in The Silmarillion, but also the mythical aspect/transformation of Te Kā/Te Fiti. I don't really want to add anything to that because it's still just something that just occurred to me and something I haven't thought about thoroughly, and also because I just find it pointless to write about it to be honest.

I think the thing that made me appreciate PatF more is reading that Musker and Clements took inspiration from It Happened One Night, but switching the genders, and then seeing how the movie is an Old Hollywood romantic comedy but with a Disney/fairytale twist.
I also know that they used Lady and the Tramp and Bambi as visual inspiration, but I also see a little bit of Snow White with the bayou first being dark and then very bright the morning after, just like with Snow White in the forest (maybe they even said it in a commentary I don't remember), I also see a little bit of Fantasia in the Ma Belle Evangeline sequence, and Tiana's story is sort of a Cinderella story, and Mama Odie is reminiscent of the Fairy godmother. So in a way the movie is filled with beautiful subtle callbacks to some of Walt Disney's films.

3. Tangled:
I'm fond of Tangled, but nowadays I find the movie a bit unremarkable. It really plays it safe with the story and the characters. I also don't like how it undermines its more sincere moments with its irreverence. I still think the movie on the whole is good and entertaining, especially compared to what we get now.

4. Winnie the Pooh:
Don't really have anything to say about this one

5. Frozen:
I just don't find it interesting after the first act. I don't really care that it's popular, or that it has two white Disney princesses or a European setting, or that it's "inspired" by a fairytale. Disney films have more sophistication and finesse. Can you imagine the Beast telling Belle, or Aladdin to Jasmine or any Disney guy to his Disney girl that boys pick their nose and eat them? They had real conversations, they didn't hammer that they don't know anything about love or something something about love experts just to let everyone know that they too read those articles that nitpick Disney films to death, and that they are smarter because they make a "commentary" about past Disney films (when you really think about it, it really started here or with Wreck-it Ralph that the characters started talking as if they know kids are watching them).

6. Frozen II:
This movie is just a mess, they didn't know what to do with the characters, or what to do with the story or anything. There's no plot other than the characters sing a song at the beginning and then each gets a solo and then it ends. The best thing I can say about it is that it's good to put it on before you go to sleep.

7. Zootopia:
Technically a better film than both Frozen and Frozen II but I don't think the allegories work and I find the whole thing just tedious. The jokes also don't really work for me.

8. Encanto:
Another film with no plot and characters just stopping everything to sing a song.

The rest are not really interesting and I saw them only once or twice and have no intention of watching them again. If I had to rank them from what I remember, I guess it'll be something like this:

9. Raya and the Last Dragon.
10. Wreck-it Ralph
11. Strange World
12. Big Hero 6
13. Ralph Breaks the Internet

I don't really have anything to say about them, other than I'm glad Rich Moore isn't in the studio anymore, I think Don Hall is currently the weakest director at the studio, I'm not fond of Byron Howard anymore, and I don't really care about any creative working at Disney at the moment. I have much more mean things to say but I'll keep them to myself because everyone on the internet is sensitive these days.
Musker and Clements are missed.

I didn't rank Meet the Robinsons and Bolt because I don't consider them as part of the Revival just as much as I don't consider The Black Cauldron, The Great Mouse Detective and Oliver and Company as part of the Disney Renaissance. Truthfully I don't think any film since Ralph Breaks the Internet is part of the Revival. I agree with what Sotiris said in the Strange World thread.

[Sotiris]

The Princess and the Frog is the only one that feels like a genuine classic Disney film, and probably the only film that does since Fantasia 2000.

I agree that TPatF is the most sincere film of the Revival and comes closer to feeling like a Disney Classic since the films of the Renaissance. However, it's not without its flaws. The setting is too modern, the narrative episodic, and the "two unlikely characters going on a road trip" trope that was imported from Pixar didn't let it reach its full potential. The redneck humor of the bayou didn't do it any favors either. I would say Moana suffers from the same flaws, more or less, but with more meta/wink-at-the-audience humor instead. Still, in both films Musker & Clements' talent and storytelling sensibilities manage to come through, despite them being creatively stifled to an extent.

I'm fond of Tangled, but nowadays I find the movie a bit unremarkable. It really plays it safe with the story and the characters. I also don't like how it undermines its more sincere moments with its irreverence. I still think the movie on the whole is good and entertaining, especially compared to what we get now.

They tried too hard to make it look "cool" and "modern" in a desperate attempt to attract boys and it was to the film's detriment. While not bad, it could have been so much more. Out of all the films of the Revival, I think Tangled would have benefitted the most from a traditional storytelling approach.

Don't really have anything to say about this one.

It's a charming little film with some nice animation, but bland and ultimately unnecessary. DisneyToons did Winnie better, particularly with Pooh's Grand Adventure and The Tigger Movie.

They had real conversations, they didn't hammer that they don't know anything about love or something something about love experts just to let everyone know that they too read those articles that nitpick Disney films to death, and that they are smarter because they make a "commentary" about past Disney films (when you really think about it, it really started here or with Wreck-it Ralph that the characters started talking as if they know kids are watching them).

I think Disney becoming more aware of their audience and of the discourse surrounding Disney movies started with The Princess and the Frog. It was the first time where they made story changes specifically to address activists' concerns and make sure Tiana was a good role model for girls. This reached its peak with Frozen and continues to this day. Disney nowadays is more concerned with hitting the right checkmarks and promoting a message than telling an engaging, entertaining story.

This movie is just a mess, they didn't know what to do with the characters, or what to do with the story or anything. There's no plot other than the characters sing a song at the beginning and then each gets a solo and then it ends. The best thing I can say about it is that it's good to put it on before you go to sleep.

They tried too hard to satisfy everyone and silence the original's critics. The first Frozen was accused of being too white and so they inserted a random Black character. It was accused of not having Saami representation and so they introduced the people of Northuldra. It was accused of promoting European colonialism and so they included anti-colonial themes. It was accused of depicting abusive parents and so they retconned Iduna and Agnarr's characters. Add to that a general lack of direction and focus, it's no wonder that movie tuned out to be a narrative mess.

I don't really have anything to say about them, other than I'm glad Rich Moore isn't in the studio anymore, I think Don Hall is currently the weakest director at the studio, I'm not fond of Byron Howard anymore, and I don't really care about any creative working at Disney at the moment. Musker and Clements are missed.

Musker & Clements leaving the studio was Disney's biggest creative loss since Trousdale and Wise's departure.

[Farerb]

I think Disney becoming more aware of their audience and of the discourse surrounding Disney movies started with The Princess and the Frog. It was the first time where they made story changes specifically to address activists' concerns and make sure Tiana was a good role model for girls. This reached its peak with Frozen and continues to this day. Disney nowadays is more concerned with hitting the right checkmarks and promoting a message than telling an engaging, entertaining story.

I think it's became more than just activists, I think it's coming from the people who work there currently, not just the creative leads, but the animators as well. It's as if they took onto themselves the role if educators instead of entertainers.

They tried too hard to satisfy everyone and silence the original's critics. The first Frozen was accused of being too white and so they inserted a random Black character. It was accused of not having Saami representation and so they introduced the people of Northuldra. It was accused of promoting European colonialism and so they included anti-colonial themes. It was accused of depicting abusive parents and so they retconned Iduna and Agnarr's characters. Add to that a general lack of direction and focus, it's no wonder that movie tuned out to be a narrative mess.

I know that Disney is an American studio, but their movies had such a huge appeal outside of the US, something that most people love and can relate to. And sometimes it feels so alienating when they decide to implement something that is connected to the US and its own history on their movies. Frozen II is a good example of that, because they basically used the European settlers against Native Americans conflict on a Norwegian setting. The Northuldra looking more like Native Americans than Sámi cause the Sámi have White skin so it's not diverse enough. I felt the same about Strange World and how its setting could have been more interesting had the people had a different culture that we haven't seen before (more than using electricity through green beans) rather than the characters basically behaving like modern Californians.

[Farerb]

People might think it's just me who thinks that the Revival Era has ended in 2016, but it's really not:



https://twitter.com/Destructo_Dan/statu ... VQO1Q&s=19



https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comment ... are_button

And these are just a couple of examples, I'm seeing more and more as time goes by.

[D23ExpoVisitor25]

Favorite movies of the revival era are The Princess and the Frog and Winnie the Pooh since hand-drawn animation still holds a place in my heart and because Winnie the Pooh is my favorite Disney character, even more than Mickey Mouse, and Pooh should be Disney’s mascot as I feel he’s been under-appreciated for a while, even after Christopher Robin, until he got that bootleg cameo in the Chip n Dale: Rescue Rangers movie when he became Pooj the Fat Honey Bear.

[Disney's Divinity]

DisneyToons did Winnie better, particularly with Pooh's Grand Adventure and The Tigger Movie.

I so agree. I love both those films. I have even less attachment to WtP because of all the new voices. I know the voices have changed several times for different characters, but still, the voices chosen for WtP were a little... Eh. I don't hate it, I just don't love it.

It was the first time where they made story changes specifically to address activists' concerns and make sure Tiana was a good role model for girls. This reached its peak with Frozen and continues to this day. Disney nowadays is more concerned with hitting the right checkmarks and promoting a message than telling an engaging, entertaining story.

I don't think it's an either/or thing, they can give good role models and good stories at the same time. I think they did that with Frozen and TP&TF. I think they mostly managed it (to varying degrees) with Zootopia and Moana, too. I feel like Raya, Mirabel, and Searcher feel much less like "role models" than Tiana, Elsa, Judy, and Moana do, actually. For comparison, I'd say Belle and Pocahontas also felt like they were played as "role model" characters back when, too. As far as I know, children's entertainment has always been associated with educating basic lessons or morals, teaching things like not to steal, not to litter, to be kind, etc. That's not new, it's just opinions differ apparently on what is moral to people these days. I think teaching children to see someone who isn't like them as a person and to treat them with the same respect they'd want for themselves is a good thing, personally.

I agree about M&C being next-level storytellers, but they didn't have complete freedom on either of the films they made while Lasseter was there--worse with Moana than TP&TF, too, likely because TP&TF wasn't "huge" at the box office. It's too bad they were retired by Lasseter before he got the boot. I think they would have had much more freedom with Jennifer Lee; perhaps she would've let them bring Menken back, too, it's obvious Lasseter wouldn't let them pick him.

[Farerb]

Just to anyone else who actually wants to be knowledgeable about these facts:

Lasseter "retired" in November 2017, or at least took a "vacation".
Musker left Disney in March 2018.
Clements left Disney some time in 2019.

[Disney's Divinity]

Lasseter didn't leave until six months to a year after he was sent on "vacation." And it's not like his tendrils were fully out of the studios when he first left, no doubt he'd been pushing for the two to be retired for a while just like he did to Menken and the hand-drawn staff. Moana in particular always felt like he intended it to be their swan song and told them to put as many callbacks to TLM as possible for that reason.

[Farerb]

his tendrils like Jennifer Lee?

Why would he do that if he was the one who brought them back in the first place? Why would he care enough when it was obvious to everyone including him that he's not coming back to the studio? Especially two years later when Clements decided to leave

Musker and Clements alluded in a couple of podcast to the fact that the younger generation of creatives took over Disney and they thought it was their time to go.

Honestly, think what you want, I'm just stating it for others who don't want to be completely ignorant in these matters.

[Disney's Divinity]

No, I mean like Bob Iger and people further up the line of command who are ultimately in control of more than Jennifer Lee or Pete Docter are, the same people who tried to allow the controversy to blow over for Lasseter before he was officially shown the door. The fact that the two left at different times doesn't mean anything to me, if they were put out at the same time, it would have been more obvious what it was and Disney plays the PR game hard these days to avoid the slightest hint of backlash. I don't think M&C would've moved on to make more movies elsewhere if it was their choice. Fandom worship of Lasseter has never stopped me from posting my opinions before and neither do personal insults.

[Farerb]

Yep, I'm sure Iger or other higher ups take commands from a disgraced former CCO.
I'm also sure that for two years all Lasseter did was to plot how he could get rid of Ron Clements from a place he no longer works for, he was also probably petting his evil cat while doing so.

[Sotiris]

Musker and Clements alluded in a couple of podcast to the fact that the younger generation of creatives took over Disney and they thought it was their time to go.

Ron Clements said something similar in an article about Moana back in 2013: "We're not sure if this will be our last one. They take so long and there are a lot of young directors coming up. The bulk of the work is down the line, so we'll see." The fact they may have felt unwelcomed or unwanted has to do with the work environment and culture Lasseter fostered. Other creatives that were part of the old guard expressed the same feelings. If it was really about giving way to younger filmmakers, they wouldn't be working on a new animated feature at Warner Animation; they would just retire. It's not like other animation studios aren't populated by young creatives too.

[Disney's Divinity]

Much like most of the films he greenlighted still got made and it's been a *very* gradual process for the companies to get out from under the thumb of his formula. Only 5 years later do I feel like there are things happening at WDAS and PIXAR that would never have been allowed by Lasseter when he was there, including a slow start revival of hand-drawn and a Paperman-esque style. Lasseter wasa much bigger fish than Lee or Docter ever have been because of how much Disney prized PIXAR back in the '00s.

[Farerb]

Ron Clements said something similar in an article about Moana back in 2013: "We're not sure if this will be our last one. They take so long and there are a lot of young directors coming up. The bulk of the work is down the line, so we'll see." The fact they may have felt unwelcomed or unwanted has to do with the work environment and culture Lasseter fostered. Other creatives that were part of the old guard expressed the same feelings. If it was really about giving way to younger filmmakers, they wouldn't be working on a new animated feature at Warner Animation; they would just retire. It's not like other animation studios aren't populated by a young creatives too.

That might be true and I do agree that they might have been uncomfortable with the culture at the studio, what I don't agree with is claiming that Lasseter forced them out when both left after he did (or at least after it was known he's not coming back). If Lasseter had been the reason they wanted to leave, they simply would have remained.
They don't have an issue voicing their criticism towards Eisner with the way he treated them while they made Treasure Planet, so why wouldn't they do the same with Lasseter if that was really the case? Especially nowadays when it wouldn't even be controversial since he's fallen from grace?
I even remember you posted an article where they disgustingly defended him? Maybe I don't remember correctly, I definitely remember that Jennifer Lee defended him and for some reason it went unnoticed on social media.

Look, I'm not saying he's not a bad guy, he definitely did crappy things to people like Brenda Chapman and others, and I definitely think his "warm hugs" were his worst offense, but I just don't think there's something there when it comes to Musker and Clements, especially not since 2006 cause he wouldn't have brought them back to the studio in the first place.

[Sotiris]

I know they are not blaming Lasseter for anything. That doesn't mean he isn't responsible for changes that happened to the studio or their projects they may not had been happy with. He's the one who wanted TPatF to be set in New Orleans. He's the one who wanted Randy Newman to write the music. He's the one who turned Moana CG even though he initially told them they could do it in 2D. He's the one who turned their Mighty Maui idea into Moana. Had Jeffrey Katzenberg imposed those changes onto them, they would label it executive interference, and we would never hear the end of it. They were more welcoming of Lasseter's input because they consider him one of them, a creative. That's not surprising given they went to Cal-Arts together, he brought them back to Disney after they got fired, and let them do TPatF in 2D. They feel grateful to him. It's easy to see how they remain oblivious to his faults even post-scandal.

[Disney's Divinity]

1. Frozen
2. The Princess and the Frog
3. Raya and the Last Dragon
4. Zootopia
5. Frozen II
6. Wish
7. Encanto
8. Moana
9. Tangled
10. Strange World
11. Winnie the Pooh
12. Big Hero 6
13. Ralph Breaks the Internet
14. Wreck-It Ralph

The last three are the only ones I don't like, but they have a few things in each that I enjoy (Vanellope, "In This Place," Yaaas, King Candy, Tadashi, Baymax, the look of the inside of the portal in BH6).

[blackcauldron85]

I'm cheating by having so many ties, but I've never liked choosing a favorite between Tangled & Frozen. I see Wish a second time today so maybe my ranking will change, but like Encanto, I loved it, the characters, the music, but the story isn't perfect. I do love all 14 of these films, though.

1. The Princess and the Frog
2. (tie) Raya and the Last Dragon & Strange World
3. Winnie the Pooh
4. (tie) Tangled & Frozen
5. Moana
6. Frozen II
7. Zootopia
8. (tie) Encanto & Wish
9. Big Hero 6
10. Wreck-It Ralph
11. Ralph Breaks the Internet

[Disney's Divinity]

I'm cheating by having so many ties, but I've never liked choosing a favorite between Tangled & Frozen. I see Wish a second time today so maybe my ranking will change, but like Encanto, I loved it, the characters, the music, but the story isn't perfect. I do love all 14 of these films, though.

Yes, Encanto and Wish are pretty close in my mind, too. I have Wish ranked above Encanto above, but when I was ranking the princess films earlier, I put Encanto above Wish.

[twihard]

only seen Tangled, Frozens, big Hero 6 and Zootropolis.

Tangled is the best. Feels most like a classic Disney movie even if its cgi. Alan Menken doing the songs is probably a big reason since he doesnt come back I think for other movies.

Frozen 1 I watched cuz of the hype and was not impressed. Very sexist with weird jokes about men which they would never do about women. Felt like tangled on ice and songs were really not as great as everyone made them out to be. Felt too pop songish.

Frozen 2 I watched cuz I got forced to go and it felt like I was just watching the same first movie over and over except it was a white dress now instead of a blue one. same pop songs and now not even a twist villain.

Big hero 6 I saw on the telly. never had an interest in it cuz heard it was a marvel comic book whcih dos not interest me. only liked the white robot character but i dont even remember the others names.

Zootropolis I did go to watch cuz the reviews were amazing but I felt it was just fine. Didnt feel very Disney but felt like any animated movie from any other company. I don't see myself going back to watch #2.