Escapay versus Walt Disney in the Great Beyond

[Escapay]

Good luck, Heartless. I'll be on the sidelines watching with popcorn and milk buds.

Anyways, this topic has strayed much too far from what I intended (humorous fun with a faux interview between me and "Walt Disney").

If it's at all possible, could a mod please move the posts that aren't about the faux interview (pretty much everything from Disney Duster's first post onwards, except for Rudy Matt's first post, my post responding, REINIER posts, and my responses to them) to a new topic (e.g. "What Does Walt Think About Post-Death Disney Projects And Can We Say We Really Know?" or something shorter).

albert

[Heartless]

Yes, I'm very sorry to have strayed so far from the original topic.
And just as a final note, albert (if I may call you that), I honestly did enjoy your interview as I said before, and again, sorry to have helped with pushing away from the original, lighthearted topic.

Duster, if you wish to continue, feel welcome to shoot me a PM.

[Escapay]

That's all right, Heartless, no need to apologize. Straying Off Topic is pretty much Rule #17 at UD. I just don't want readers of the thread to have to live through all that off-topicness if they come across it in the future after the drama's died down.

Plus, I'm halfway done my faux interview with Mickey Mouse, so that'll be another fun lighthearted topic to read in the coming week!

albert

[disneyboy20022]

Plus, I'm halfway done my faux interview with Mickey Mouse, so that'll be another fun lighthearted topic to read in the coming week!

albert

Cool....Then there will be an off topic discussion of who's the best Voice Actor as Mickey Mouse

[Escapay]

Cool....Then there will be an off topic discussion of who's the best Voice Actor as Mickey Mouse

Well that's easy, it's AJ Truex!

albert

[Disney Duster]

No, I'll continue it here Heartless.

I say they are true because they are. I know you wouldn't feel that Walt would approve very much ofa lot of things in Lilo & Stitch.

Also, no, Walt Disney's things were not the same as Warner Brothers and were not as wacky and violent as today. Mickey was mischevious, not a fish-killer.

Walt Disney created a Disney essense and magic, a magic that does not depend on the person because many people could disagree with Walt on what it is but they'd be wrong as he made it, or lots of people could not even feel the Disney magic and hate Disney. If you don't believe it exists, you don't believe this this really exists, whatever you Disney "fan". But today's Disney workers were supposed to feel it and try to keep it alive in everything they make. They may get it wrong but at least they can try to get it right.

Simply, I feel confident in what I said and what I feel, and nothing you can say will change it.

Check the Disney Essence thread for more about why the Disney essence must be one thing, because if it wasn't, it would keep changing into something else and have no true identity.

[2099net]

No, I'll continue it here Heartless.

I say they are true because they are. I know you wouldn't feel that Walt would approve very much ofa lot of things in Lilo & Stitch.

Also, no, Walt Disney's things were not the same as Warner Brothers and were not as wacky and violent as today. Mickey was mischevious, not a fish-killer.

An accidental, and once she finds out about it, upset fish killer. And are you sure Mickey was mischevious? I seem to remember lots of Mickey gunplay in the early B/W shorts.

Walt Disney created a Disney essense and magic, a magic that does not depend on the person because many people could disagree with Walt on what it is but they'd be wrong as he made it, or lots of people could not even feel the Disney magic and hate Disney. If you don't believe it exists, you don't believe this this really exists, whatever you Disney "fan". But today's Disney workers were supposed to feel it and try to keep it alive in everything they make. They may get it wrong but at least they can try to get it right.

Simply, I feel confident in what I said and what I feel, and nothing you can say will change it.

Check the Disney Essence thread for more about why the Disney essence must be one thing, because if it wasn't, it would keep changing into something else and have no true identity.

Look at TV. Compare a 1950's detective show (Perry Mason) to one from the 70's (Charlies Angels) to one from the 90's (NYPD Blue) to one today (The Wire). All are different. All show how entertainment has evolved. We don't know how Disney would have evolved his entertainment because he died. I'm sorry to say it, but he did.

As I said, there's evidence Walt made films suitable to the society of the time, in that none of his later animated films were as scary as Snow White or Pinocchio. He obviously self-censored, presumably to conform to society's demands of the time. (Remember, it was in the 40's and 50's that TV networks had standards and practices which among other things dictated what was and wasn't suitable for children). To me, simply looking at the content of his Animated films, he at least kept some of these "rules" in mind when making his films.

He also self-censored shorts such as The Three Little Pigs (the Fuller Brush Jewish stereotype) and reportedly ordered the deletion of Sunflower from Fantasia himself. He obviously observed some, if not all of the general limits of society's tastes and sense of decency.

What you seem to be missing is other family films, from other studios of the time were the same as Disney (live action). There were lines filmmakers themselves didn't cross. Only time and social trends have repeatedly redrawn the lines.

So who's to say what he would make today, when there's a much more relaxed society?

As for your other posts (in on particular order, sorry but I don't have much time)

Re: Wackyness.

As for Stitch being "too wacky" for Walt - he made a film where a DA change d into a sheepdog! In live action. Way more wacky than Stitch hiding a few legs and pretending to be a dog.

Re: Cinderella.

Yes I made a mistake labeling it an adaptation. I obviously meant fairytale as my later numbers include that in the tally. The point still stands though - fairytales were less prolific in Walt's animated films than people think. If any lesson is to be taken from Walt's animated films its to constantly keep moving.

[Elladorine]

I feel really weird now. I discovered UD the site in December 2003 (Kram needed help with a contest), joined UD the forum in late January 2004 and began posting a week later without ever reading up threads and getting a feel for its members. There was never any stalking period for me.

Ok, now I feel weird too. I signed up in 2003 and didn't start posting until 2004. Not because I was stalking, but because . . . um . . . I sorta forgot about the site. But that was mainly because I could only get online from libraries back then, and didn't get internet at home until 2004. I went crazy posting for while after I rediscovered the place though.

I've gone through long periods of lurking or just plain drifting off. And started over once too.

Anyway, back to the point of this thread. I thought the interview was simply awesome.

[Disney Duster]

I have decided to believe that Lilo & Stitch is Disney and has the Disney essence.

I have decided that it is when the Disney essense is applied to sci-fi, to aliens, and to that kind of whackiness and violence. Evidence is in how it changed in look from what Chris Sanders' drew.

I still don't think Walt would have liked it very much, but I guess that doesn't matter as long as it's not saying "f you" or "we don't care" to his legacy and traditions. I mean, sometimes I think it was, which is what I was trying to say, but maybe it wasn't, it's not doing it a lot or so bad, anyway.

I still think some movies are more Disney than others and this is one that is a little on the less Disney side, but, ah well, I'll still believe it was done in the Disney way, to whatever degree.

I still say Stitch's transformation into good was so unlikely and awkward, and his speech at the end sounds strange. He says "they are broken but are good", but who is he to judge what's good when he was so bad in the beginning and just changed like 5 minutes before. I don't get that at all.

I have decided to believe that like magic all films made at the Disney studio somehow keep the Disney essence and the Disney way even if only the littlest bit. It's just...I want Disney to THINK more about making their films be, well, Disney, not something that could be at any other studio.

[Heartless]

I have decided to believe that Lilo & Stitch is Disney and has the Disney essence.

omfg.. hooray for you.

I can't say I care at all.

[Disney Duster]

Your action says otherwise, though your comment also makes you seem like you are living up to your name again. I don't understand why are you are here if you don't care about Disney essence, if you don't think that most Disney films capture a special quality all their own. Otherwise you wouldn't like so many of their films that you came here.

I did forget to say, Netty, that someone transforming magically into a dog is indeed very Disney and not nearly as whacky as an alien sprouting and sucking back in arms.

[Heartless]

Your action says otherwise, though your comment also makes you seem like you are living up to your name again. I don't understand why are you are here if you don't care about Disney essence, if you don't think that most Disney films capture a special quality all their own. Otherwise you wouldn't like so many of their films that you came here.

The thing I don't care about is how now all of a sudden you choose to say that Lilo & Stitch IS "Disney" after you fight and fight saying how it is the total opposite. I just really could care less if you think that now. Actually, I have learned to not care about much of anything you say anymore. I'm done trying to have a conversation based on opinions with you.

I never said I didn't think that most Disney films capture a special quality.. and I'm not going to say that they do. Most Disney animated films are wonderful, fantastic movies that are really dear to me, and that's all is needed to be said on the matter on my end.

And by the way, I chose my name for a reason.

[Disney Duster]

Well, if I hurt you at all, I'm sorry. I do have problems with Lilo & Stitch, mostly concerning Stitch's character (if he has a soul or not, but that's for another discussion)

I just wanted people to think about Disney having more consistency and identity, to be Disney and not any other studio.