Beauty and the Beast Discussion

[Farerb]

soooo should we discuss the new Epcot attraction?

The one where LeFou f***ks up a good movie like Timon and Pumbaa did in The Lion King 1½?

[Farerb]

I found this - Lithographs that look nothing like how the film looks on Blu-ray:
https://youtu.be/V2vP-VE038A

[MrXemnas1992]

soooo should we discuss the new Epcot attraction?

The one where LeFou f***ks up a good movie like Timon and Pumbaa did in The Lion King 1½?

well hey, it's new 2d animation from disney....so count your blessings, i suppose?

[Sotiris]

The short film features new 2D animation, new narration by Angela Lansuburry and it's directed by Don Hahn. It should have been included as an extra on the upcoming 4K Blu-ray of the film. You can watch the new scenes, here and most of the short, here.

[D82]

Wow, I didn't know anything about this. Thanks MrXemnas1992 for telling us about this attraction and Sotiris for the videos! Do we know who made the animation for it? They've borrowed a bit from the live-action version of LeFou by making him one of the good guys and showing that he likes to dress as a woman. The concept of him trying to make Belle and Beast fall in love with each other during the movie doesn't make much sense, but it's more or less entertaining and I like seeing new 2D animation, even when it's not on par with the quality of the original drawings.

[Disney Duster]

When I look at the animation in the sing-along short, I wonder...are these the same animators? Did they forget how to animate as well as they used to?

[Sotiris]

The concept of him trying to make Belle and Beast fall in love with each other during the movie doesn't make much sense, but it's more or less entertaining and I like seeing new 2D animation, even when it's not on par with the quality of the original drawings.

Yes, even if we were to believe he had a change of heart early in the film, it doesn't add up logistically as it would require of him to be at two places at once in many of the scenes. Maybe he's a time traveler!

Do we know who made the animation for it?

There's not much information out there. This is what I've been able to scrounge up so far.

Don Hahn, the producer of the original classic animated film did direct and produce this as well - and it includes new hand-drawn animation. Fitzgerald talks about the twist being that LeFou is the one who brings Belle and Beast together. I asked Fitzgerald about choosing animators because it isn't as easy anymore to find those who create hand-drawn animation. He said that Don Hahn chose the animators - Hahn wanted hand-drawn animation "so it would seamlessly blend with what was from the film". Composer Chris Bacon was chosen "to write a score that takes the classic songs and threads them together - so it feels like an original film, yet the story is a little twisted".

Source: http://www.mousesteps.com/denises-corne ... ome-planet

Animators who hand drew the characters as well as some of the voice actors - like Angela Lansbury, who voiced Mrs. Potts - are part of the condensed version of the movie that adds a few new twists. Producer Don Hahn, who had been involved with the original movie, called it “thrilling” to reunite the crew back together.

Source: https://www.orlandosentinel.com/travel/ ... story.html

Hahn's team incorporates original animation with familiar scenes from the movie to spin this twist. "The coolest thing about this was finding animators who could still work with a pencil," Hahn said.

Source: https://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/201912/7138/

When I look at the animation in the sing-along short, I wonder...are these the same animators? Did they forget how to animate as well as they used to?

We don't know who worked on it exactly. Perhaps they hired some assistant animators who had worked on the original and not the supervising ones. I think it looks surprisingly decent given the circumstances. In any case, the difference in quality can be attributed to several factors. 1) The production had a limited budget and a tight schedule so they weren't able to do their best. I highly doubt there were any inbetween, clean-up, or ink and paint artists on it; there was probably just one animator assigned for each scene doing everything. 2) Lack of quality control to ensure the character remained on model. 3) The use of digital 2D software which has an adverse effect on the quality of the drawings and the look of the colors.

[Disney Duster]

Thank you for the very informative answer Sotiris! You may be right about why the animation is like it is.

[Farerb]

Finally, this is is what's on Disney Plus:

https://youtu.be/EhdQdPdG4-s

https://youtu.be/OElUWCKsPgM

[Farerb]

With HDR off it looks like the Blu-ray for some reason

[Marce82]

Fareb.... what are we looking at here? The color palette?

[Farerb]

Fareb.... what are we looking at here? The color palette?

Yes. However it's different with HDR and without. Seeing it with HDR, I see something closer to the original color palette, but without it's like the Blu-ray color palette. I'm confused

[Farerb]

By the way, Marce82, I'm really interested to hear your opinion about various restorations, not only Beauty and the Beast, but even other Disney films if you'd like to share them.

[JeanGreyForever]

To be honest, those two clips (with HDR) don't look much different from the Blu-Ray. Belle's hair still looks reddish in some shots and there's an ugly tint on the whole color scheme. Is this really the same BATB you saw on Disney+ Farerb? Because if so, I'm pretty disappointed.

[Farerb]

To be honest, those two clips (with HDR) don't look much different from the Blu-Ray. Belle's hair still looks reddish in some shots and there's an ugly tint on the whole color scheme. Is this really the same BATB you saw on Disney+ Farerb? Because if so, I'm pretty disappointed.

It depends on the screen's HDR capability. It looked good on my phone and on my TV, but not on my computer (which does not support HDR). At first I thought the HD version on D+ played the BD version, but now I understand that the HDR is what Disney actually corrected, meaning 4K SDR would look the same as the BD. I guess this stream was taken from D+, so it has the same encoding, the disc might have a different encoding.
I tried taking a screenshot, but it converted the colors, probably because the screenshot took the shot without HDR.
This is just my perspective of course. I don't fully understand these things.

[Farerb]

It also made me realize that Disney probably didn't do new masters to their CAPS films, they just upscaled them and applied HDR, which means, once again, tempering with the colors. Yes I even think they upscaled Aladdin, but they used the UK Blu-ray version and not the Diamond Edition one. I'm not certain about it, but I'll check one day when I have more time.

[Marce82]

I thought it was a known fact Disney movies were upscaled from 2K to 4K... even Frozen 2 was created in 2K, and that is super recent.
And once again, specially with a hand-drawn film.... not sure what detail people are hoping to see in 4K. These drawings were created in 16field paper... not sure what you are all expecting to see.

As for this BATB palette... it's better, but still not accurate. I recently looked at the IMAX trailer for BATB.... damn.... THOSE are the right colors. The dress is gold... the hair is brown. No doubt about it.

And fareb.... thanks for asking. To be honest, I'm general I am pretty happy with the restorations done for blu rays. The color accuracy at times can be debatable. The biggest sinners:

- Cinderella: it's not just that the colors look ridiculous, but the linework in some shots has been severely altered or erased. That one hurts to look at. There are some comparisons to film prints... the the amount of detail lost is insane.

- Sword in the Stone: this one is pretty much a joke. The whole film was put through some bad filter... luckily, the version on Disney Plus is "unrestored"... tho cropped. If you were lucky to get the itunes version, that one was 4:3 AND was unrestored.

- BATB: this is not a restoration issue. This is not being taken from degraded film stock that needs to be restored... no detail has been lost. THe issue here is a color palette that Disney has purposely altered. And it really bothers me (some scenes more than others). But the detail definition for this movie is great, no debating that.

- Snow White: definition is good, though I would like some light film grain. I also question the colors at times... I also feel that the contrast has been softened, so the shadows don't often show well.... but than can be fixed by tinkering with one's tv settings.

Other than those, Im generally pleased with the restorations...

[Farerb]

I agree with you about Cinderella, Beauty and the Beast and Sword in the Stone.
I never noticed that in Snow White, but I'll try on my next watch.

Other films - Alice and Dumbo are too saturated (but some like it because of the nature of these films), Pinocchio might not have a serious problem, but comparing it with the Limited Issue or VHS, it seems that light is gone and that there's a green tint.

[Marce82]

Actually, I had never heard complaints about Dumbo. I like it.

As far as Alice... I generally like it. The only sequence where I have a bit of an issue is the garden of talking flowers... the rose is so saturated that you can barely see her face. But then again, if one looks at the film stock, it's probably super faded. At least Alice, Dumbo and Pinocchio haven't had the linework altered. The color palette can be subjective...

I know about the issues you are pointing out with Pinocchio... I find them to be pretty minor, and bordering on subjective. Should the light be blueish when the BLUE fairy comes in? Who knows.

I guess Im not THAT big of a purist when it comes to color palettes.... unless they are absurd (ie: Cinderella and BATB)

And by the way, the device one watches these in also makes a difference... the dvds of the 2000s worked well on a tube tv, but look very faded on an HD tv.

[Farerb]

I just realized that I forgot to comment on the CAPS situation. Some suggested that they upscaled the original CAPS files themselves, not just an existing master, but IDK... To me Aladdin seems similar to previous releases except with the aspect ratio changed.

Regarding the subjectivity on the colors, I agree, and I even know some who like the Blu-ray colors of Beauty and the Beast like my brother ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

Regarding Beauty and the Beast, my go-to now is the laserdisc. I'll check the 4K disc when I get it, but if I'm not pleased then it'll be on my shelf and that's that. I already don't like the fact that they didn't bother fixing Something There.