Episode 3: Revenge of the Gays, Are You One Too?

[Goliath]

Not overthrowing Ayathollah Khomeini was a bad move. And because of that, we have the Iran we have now and is reason we have what you just said, the "Iran-Contra".

I disagree. American meddling in foreign affairs was just the reason why the Iranian uprising happened. Had the US not messed with Iranian democracy in 1953 (yes, it existed!) and deposed prime-minister Mossadegh, replacing him with 'Shah' Pahlavi, the Islamic revolution would not have happened. The uprising against the Shah was initially not religious motivated; it was a call for democracy and freedom. Ayathollah Khomeini just jumped into this to lead this resistance. Had the US tried to overthrow Khomeini, what would have happened? Reinstall the Shah? The dictator whose secret service was ruthless in torturing and killing political dissidents? Who didn't allow for freedom of speech or freedom of the press?

True, there's none of that now in Iran and the violation of human rights continues. The only advantage to the US in installing another puppet dictator, was having its own interests served. The people would not have benefitted. Carter basically asked himself the question: "is it worth it?" Is it worth the lives of American soldiers and God knows how many Iranian citizens to overthrow the leader the Iranians want for themselves? Carter was moral enough to know the US strictly had no business with what was going on in Iran --save for the hostage situation.

His reasoning by comparing it Vietnam is also stupid.

Those were my words. I didn't make that clear enough. I don't know if Carter really compared it to Vietnam; it was my assumption that he did. It seemed a logical reason to me.

You realize that during Vietnam war, we didn't invade north Vietnam. We just held back on defense which what drawn the war out. Had we invaded North Vietnam, the war would of ended about 2 months instead of 7 or so years. My uncle who fought in Vietnam as well as many others Vietnam veterans, said same thing. Just like with Germany and Japan before, they could of fix Vietnam easily after the invasion and a better relation would of happen.

I disagree with your assesment of the war. It's the reasoning that "if we had done more" or "had we stayed in longer", we would've won. Fact is that it's highly unlikely the US could have ever won that war, because of the nature of the conflict. A guerilla war in that environment is hard to win. (You see the same in Afghanistan, where hundreds of thousands of Western soldiers can't get a hold on a few hundred Taliban.) I think invading North-Vietnam would have only made the atrocity worse. And let's remember the US had no business going in there in the first place. The Vietnam War was a colonial conflict the Americans took over from the French in 1954. Had Harry Truman granted Ho Chi Minh's wish for independence of his country (which he pleaded to Truman, after having fought with the US army against Japan in South-East Asia in WWII), none of the bloodshed would ever have happened.

[Goliath]

I'm sorry for derailing the subject like that. Zack, I'm so happy for you! Congratulations!

[Super Aurora]

i'll post my response to you via pm so this won't get off topic.

[Super Aurora]

Canadian military officer exposed as a cross-dressing serial killer
He was a square-jawed Canadian Air Force officer with a brilliant future, a man entrusted with flying prime ministers and Queen Elizabeth II. On Monday, he was exposed as a serial killer with a shocking fetish for girls' panties that he documented in a trove of twisted photos of himself.

He was a square-jawed Canadian Air Force officer with a brilliant future, a man entrusted with flying prime ministers and Queen Elizabeth II. On Monday, he was exposed as a serial killer with a shocking fetish for girls' panties that he documented in a trove of twisted photos of himself.

At a hearing that reduced victims' relatives to tears, the lurid photos were shown one by one in court as Col. Russell Williams, 47, pleaded guilty to murdering two women, sexually assaulting two others and committing dozens of break-ins in which he stole underwear from the bedrooms of girls as young as 11.
He faces an automatic sentence of life in prison with no possibility for parole for at least 25 years.

Williams was expressionless and dressed in a somber dark suit. He kept his head down during the 40 minutes it took to read all the charges.

Until his double life came to light with his arrest earlier this year, Williams was the commander of Canada's largest Air Force base and served as a pilot for some of the country's top leaders and for the queen during a 2005 visit.

The charges against the elite pilot — a tall, fit figure who did his job with quiet diligence and appeared to be in a stable marriage — shocked the country and its military with the possibility of a serial killer in its officer corps.

"The tragic events surrounding Col. Russell Williams stunned all Canadians and none more so than the members of the Canadian Forces. Today's guilty plea is the first step in a healing process that will no doubt take many years," said Gen. Walt Natynczyk, chief of the defense staff and a Canadian Forces spokesman.

Among other things, Williams pleaded guilty to murdering Jessica Lloyd, 27, whose body was found in February, and Marie Comeau, a 38-year-old corporal under his command who was found dead in her home last November. Both women were asphyxiated.

Williams also pleaded guilty to attacking two other women during separate home invasions in the Tweed, Ontario, area in 2009. One of the women, a 21-year-old single mother, said she was tied up, blindfolded, stripped and held captive for more than two hours while he forced her into sexual acts and photographed her.

Prosecutors said Williams targeted girls and women in their teens and 20s and often photographed himself in their underwear, which he then stole and catalogued at home.

At the sentencing hearing following his guilty plea, prosecutors warned the court they would be presenting evidence that was "extremely disturbing." Prosecutor Lee Burgess said many of the facts would be difficult for his victims to hear, but it was "important to have a full account of the crimes."

Burgess began by presenting photos of Williams wearing a 12-year-old girl's cartoon-decorated underwear.

Many of the pictures showed a serious-looking Williams masturbating in or with the stolen lingerie. In one picture, he appears to be wearing his military uniform with his trousers dropped to expose pink panties. In another he is shown licking, kissing and sniffing a young girl's panties that have been stained with menstrual blood. In another, he has the same pair of stained underwear wrapped around his head in various shots. All the while, with the same serious expression.

Stunned onlookers in the courtroom wept. Jessica Lloyd's mother, Roxanne Lloyd, clutched a framed photo of her daughter and wiped away tears.

"It was overwhelming. I thought it was disgusting, especially targeting young girls," said Jessica's brother Andy Lloyd. "Just hearing the stuff he did to all those people, makes me angry, just as a Canadian, as a regular human being and they haven't even gotten to my sister yet."

Authorities said Williams carefully catalogued the photos of himself with time and date stamps on hard drives in his Ottawa home. Some of the photos were panoramic shots of the victims' bedrooms. During one break-in, he stole 87 pairs of underwear belonging to an Ottawa high school student. He kept the underwear in bags and boxes in his home and would sometimes burn them if he ran out of space.

Prosecutors also said Williams videotaped the assaults and murders.

Authorities said Williams came to the attention of investigators during a police roadblock a few days after Lloyd was reported missing. Tire tracks from his vehicle matched the ones they were looking for.

Williams, a 23-year military veteran, has never been in combat but has been stationed across Canada and internationally, including a stint in 2006 as commanding officer of Camp Mirage, the secretive Canadian Forces base widely reported to be near Dubai.

He was photographed in January with Canada's defense chief and its top general during an inspection of a Canadian aircraft on its way to support relief efforts in earthquake-stricken Haiti. Williams killed his second victim just over a week later.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... iller.html



I admit, I lol'd.

[pap64]

What's ironic is that Fullmetal Alchemist DID have a cross dressing serial killer in one episode. XD

[Super Aurora]

What's ironic is that Fullmetal Alchemist DID have a cross dressing serial killer in one episode. XD

yeah barry the chopper.

[Flanger-Hanger]

President Obama: It Gets Better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geyAFbSD ... r_embedded

[ajmrowland]

^That ties in well with this post here.http://www.mugglenet.com/app/news/show/3867
there is good in the world

[Goliath]

President Obama: It Gets Better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geyAFbSD ... r_embedded

It will get better... when YOU start twisting arms in Congress to repeal DADT!

[zackisthewalrus]

Gay Adoption is now legal in Florida.
http://bit.ly/ac5gDY

[blackcauldron85]

^

I think that that's wonderful news. It's horrible that some people who would be great parents aren't allowed to adopt children who need homes. It just doesn't make sense. Good for Florida!

[Flanger-Hanger]

It will get better... when YOU start twisting arms in Congress to repeal DADT!

Ya, and appeals to uphold it when a judge said otherwise and a majority of both parties want it gone doesn't help. Why delay it and risk further harm to gay army members when getting rid of it now would do alot to "educate" the military on what is acceptable?

Same with court decisions saying the 3rd part of the DOMA is unconstitutional.

Good to hear about the decision in Florida. Now if they could only ditch that ban on marriage.

[jpanimation]

The Man Who Could Really Fire Pelosi
http://reason.com/archives/2010/10/22/t ... eally-fire

Looks like Pelosi's Republican opposition is more pro-gay rights then her. From the interview, he sounds like a libertarian running as a Republican (much like Ron Paul). Just thought this was strange.

[Disney's Divinity]

I know this is really late, but congratulations, zackisthewalrus! It's always nice to hear people have an easy time coming out, especially considering how bad everyone always expects it to be.

Also, I'm not complaining, but...what did that article you posted have anything to do with LGBT people, Super Aurora?

[Super Aurora]

Also, I'm not complaining, but...what did that article you posted have anything to do with LGBT people, Super Aurora?

everything.

[Disney Duster]

Actually, I didn't realize that it didn't really have to do much with this.

If you were posting it to say that sometimes straight-acting..conservative (?) anti-gay (?) people can turn out to be covering up that they really are...agy (even though he actually isn't even gay, he clearly likes women). So...

Yea, actually, that was just really offensive, and hurtful. You and your concept of humor...

[milojthatch]

It will get better... when YOU start twisting arms in Congress to repeal DADT!

Ya, and appeals to uphold it when a judge said otherwise and a majority of both parties want it gone doesn't help. Why delay it and risk further harm to gay army members when getting rid of it now would do alot to "educate" the military on what is acceptable?

Further risk and harm, huh? I've tried to stay out of threads like, but I just HAD to comment on this one. Further harm with come to gay service men and women if the law IS repealed.

When the law is finally repealed, and realistically, I think it is just a matter of time, I can't wait to hear all the stories and lawsuits the gay service folk will start kicking up becuase they get the crap knocked out of them now that they are free with their sexuality in the army. Keeping in mind that the majority of our armed forces come from the South, do you really honestly think everything will be butterflies and kisses once the law is struck down? To even think this is not going to be the case just shows a lack of realism for that person, regardless if you see homosexuality as a correct lifestyle or not.

Further, the day this law is struck down, they better start making straight men and women shower and bunk together, just to keep it fair. It is not odd or uncommon that if someone, ANYONE who may be attracted to you that you are not back, gay or straight, that showering in such close proximity to one another like is done in the military, or being close like in a bunk or fox hole, that problems and uneasiness will arrive. That does not make someone "homophobic," even though I know that gays love labeling people with that anytime someone stands in their way or slightly disagrees (so loving and understanding after all) but it is simply a human feeling and response that everyone can and normally does deal with. Why such basic reality seem to be so easily over looked, that I don't understand. I guess so many people are so worked up, few if any of them actually stop to think about it and realize what they are bring upon us all.

Frankly, DADT is keeping gays in the military safe, and ultimately, keeping our armed forcing intact. Don't agree or believe me? Fine, but once the law falls, and again it will, and reality starts popping it's ugly head, just remember I warned you. We are heading for some dark days, all in the name or "rights" and "freedom." What an ironic way for this nation to fall.. Enjoy your "freedom."

[Super Aurora]

Actually, I didn't realize that it didn't really have to do much with this.

If you were posting it to say that sometimes straight-acting..conservative (?) anti-gay (?) people can turn out to be covering up that they really are...agy (even though he actually isn't even gay, he clearly likes women). So...

Yea, actually, that was just really offensive, and hurtful. You and your concept of humor...

Coming out of closet.

[Goliath]

When the law is finally repealed, and realistically, I think it is just a matter of time, I can't wait to hear all the stories and lawsuits the gay service folk will start kicking up becuase they get the crap knocked out of them now that they are free with their sexuality in the army.

First of all: good that you show your glee about gay people getting beaten up because of their sexual preference ("I can't wait"). Now we know that you're not only a homophobe, but also one who enjoys gay people getting harmed. It's always nice for others to know who they're discussing.

Second: nothing of this happened in other countries were gay people at one point where allowed to serve openly in the army. It didn't happen in The Netherlands, or Belgium, or the UK, or Israel. Your assumption that it will happen is very telling... It says a lot about the US military personell... or about your own idea of them. Or maybe it's just projection?

Keeping in mind that the majority of our armed forces come from the South, do you really honestly think everything will be butterflies and kisses once the law is struck down?

Does that say something about Southeners or about you?

To even think this is not going to be the case just shows a lack of realism for that person, regardless if you see homosexuality as a correct lifestyle or not.

Homosexuality is not a 'lifestyle'. Homosexuals don't live differently from straight people. They don't eat differently, they don't walk differently, they don't drive differently, they don't breathe differently. They just like other people romantically or sexually. You're not in the position to judge whether or not that's "correct".

Further, the day this law is struck down, they better start making straight men and women shower and bunk together, just to keep it fair. It is not odd or uncommon that if someone, ANYONE who may be attracted to you that you are not back, gay or straight, that showering in such close proximity to one another like is done in the military, or being close like in a bunk or fox hole, that problems and uneasiness will arrive. That does not make someone "homophobic,"

No, that makes you a bigoted, disgusting and hateful person. I thought we were living in a day and age where gay people were not any longer associated with pedophiles or rapists, like in "the days of yore". But you're living proof that sadly, that's still a reality of life. You can't deny being a homophobe when, in the very same post, you imply that gay people are (potential) rapists who will force themselves onto everybody that comes in sight.

even though I know that gays love labeling people with that anytime someone stands in their way or slightly disagrees

Well, I'm not gay and I find it disgusting and yes, homophobic and hateful. And no, nobody should be understanding to your 'point of view' when you insult and offend an entire group of people and accuse them of horrible things. And it's not the first time you exhibit this kind of behavior. First it were hateful anti-semetic slurs, and now it's gay-bashing.

Frankly, DADT is keeping gays in the military safe, and ultimately, keeping our armed forcing intact. Don't agree or believe me? Fine, but once the law falls, and again it will, and reality starts popping it's ugly head, just remember I warned you. We are heading for some dark days, all in the name or "rights" and "freedom." What an ironic way for this nation to fall.. Enjoy your "freedom."

Replace 'gay' with 'black' and you find yourself back in the 1940's. Couldn't get the army racially integrated, they said. It would hurt the army, they said. Army would fall apart, they said. All the white people would either quit or harm the black guys, they said. Now you're saying it about gays, and you're even proud of it. And I like sarcasm a lot, but not when it's as utterly misplaced as it is in your post.

Like with the anti-semetic bile, this too will get reported.

[Edited for grammar]

[Disney's Divinity]

To milojthatch (Edit: though this is probably unnecessary now that Goliath's posted):

I have no doubt that lawsuits will occur. But is that the gay individuals' fault? This has to begin at some point, regardless of whether it's now or later, otherwise gay soldiers will have to stay forever in a state of repression (that's at its heart, unfair--especially for people who are risking their lives for you; it's sad that some people can't see that reality). This is no different than it likely was for African Americans or women. Of course there will be that beginning stage where some homophobic soldiers fight back against the change, because up 'til now society has accepted their bigoted and violent views on gays, but it's better for everyone to learn now that that thinking isn't acceptable in today's society (especially a society that's supposed to be "equal" for everyone--that "everyone" doesn't mean "white, heterosexual, Christian men"). Tbh, I'd rather people like that did get charged for criminal behavior, so everyone else will learn better. Besides, there will no doubt be tolerance training, as there was when the races were integrated and women were finally allowed in. And if certain individuals in the military/army can't be civil or adjusted enough to tolerate other individuals who just happen to be different than them in one way, I don't think they're stable enough to keep the army "intact" anyway.

Also, instating openness for gay soldiers is not going to break the army, anymore than it has in every other country where it's old news. Same with gay marriage. Stop being dramatic when you have nothing to back it up.