Pixar's Brave (formerly The Bear and the Bow)

[Dr Frankenollie]

Then just two questions:

1. Doesn't everyone here believe that Disney is unique. That Disney has it's own identity. That it does some things that only Disney can do?

Disney is one of the best companies in the world, and is responsible for some of cinema's greatest movies, the world's best theme parks, and the best and most successful merchandise. It turned animation into an art form and the earliest Disney animators evolved it from simplistic, black-and-white and silent doodles into moving, emotionally engaging paintings. Of course it's unique. But what I was saying (and some other posters were saying) was that whilst Disney does have its own identity, this identity is only held together by people, and (at the present time) all of which weren't working at Disney when it first formed its identity; therefore, if another animation studio took the time and effort and gathered the world's best animators at the time together, of course it's possible that they'd be able to develop something mistakable for something Disney. Yes, Disney is unique, but the Disney movies may not always be so. Is that difficult to comprehend?

2. If you made a studio, where you were doing things that you felt were new, and unique to only your studio, wouldn't you feel bad if other people said other studios could do the same thing, make them feel the same way, like there was no difference between your studio and the others?

I have a question: what has this got to do with anything?! We're not discussing whether or not other studios will feel bad if somebody says that their work is not unique, we're discussing whether or not another studio can recreate 'the Disney feel' (even though the answer is clear).

[DisneyAnimation88]

Regarding pap64's suggestions for the storyline, that's a very interesting idea and one I hadn't really considered before. The idea of Merida possibly being faced with having to kill her own mother is quite a dark one but I could definitely envisage it or something along those lines.

[Disney Duster]

Then just two questions:

1. Doesn't everyone here believe that Disney is unique. That Disney has it's own identity. That it does some things that only Disney can do?

Disney is one of the best companies in the world, and is responsible for some of cinema's greatest movies, the world's best theme parks, and the best and most successful merchandise. It turned animation into an art form and the earliest Disney animators evolved it from simplistic, black-and-white and silent doodles into moving, emotionally engaging paintings. Of course it's unique. But what I was saying (and some other posters were saying) was that whilst Disney does have its own identity, this identity is only held together by people, and (at the present time) all of which weren't working at Disney when it first formed its identity; therefore, if another animation studio took the time and effort and gathered the world's best animators at the time together, of course it's possible that they'd be able to develop something mistakable for something Disney. Yes, Disney is unique, but the Disney movies may not always be so. Is that difficult to comprehend?

Finally.

Anyway, we should believe that Disney can make all their movies Disney, because as we all agree, it takes people to do it. But sometimes...Disney does not make it happen, they do un-Disney things, and it's a real shame.

[WarriorDreamer]

I think what Disney Duster is trying to say is that while 'any company' could try and re-create the 'Disney feel' only Disney could truely do it because the people hired to create animation and work on Disney animated films are specifically hired because they have a special talent for recreating that Disney feel that you always feel in a Disney movie.

So maybe they do have different Disney animators, but they are only allowed to be there because it is them who can create the Disney magic. That's where other studios may not be able to succeed in creating it. Because Disney always brings all the right people together to make special films.

But on another note, I didn't particulary have a strong 'classic Disney feel' when watching the Brave trailer. It seemed alot darker than other kinds of Disney/ Pixar films and I think they're going for something different.

[Victurtle]

The flaw with that theory is that many of these employees that have special talent to produce "disney magic" and are working at rival studios. Say if everyone who produced Lilo & Stitch moved to Dreamworks and made a film about training dragons or something, Duster would probably still refuse to recognise the "disney-ness" of it.

Personally, I think it's the Disney logo that appears at the front of the film. It used to be the mentality of the directors, but nowadays all that seems to be their minds are "rush release".

[Dr Frankenollie]

Finally.

Anyway, we should believe that Disney can make all their movies Disney, because as we all agree, it takes people to do it. But sometimes...Disney does not make it happen, they do un-Disney things, and it's a real shame.

What do you mean? I wasn't completely agreeing with you, I was saying that as a whole Disney is unique, but that may not necessarily always be the case. There aren't things that only Disney can do, as (as we fortunately agree on) only people make up Disney, and the best of those people (as he been happening with the likes of Chris Sanders, Andreas Deja, possibly Glen Keane and Brad Lewis) could move and go to another studio, and as a result that studio could do the things Disney can do (and possibly do the things better).

[Jackoleen]

Dear Disney Enthusiasts,

XXX!

[Disney Duster]

Well, what will solve all the questions is that you forgot the other thing I said (I understand how it got "lost" among everything else):

That people can only make something feel truly like Disney whem they intend to make it be Disney or in the Disney style. So if Chris Sanders isn't intending his character to be a Disney character, it won't quite work. But he did, when he was working for Disney.

A good example of how the work of people can be transformed into something Disney, is how Chris Sanders' art of Lilo and Stitch was transformed into more of the Disney style for the final film. You'll have to look around to see comparisons of his own sketches and the final film designs, but it's there. That Disney essence worked on it, if you will.

I think that if anyone says some other company's work feels Disney, they aren't being discerning enough to tell exactly what the real, specific Disney feel is, they're just being rather general, and may not even be aware of it.

[Dream Huntress]

Well, what will solve all the questions is that you forgot the other thing I said (I understand how it got "lost" among everything else):

That people can only make something feel truly like Disney whem they intend to make it be Disney or in the Disney style. So if Chris Sanders isn't intending his character to be a Disney character, it won't quite work. But he did, when he was working for Disney.

A good example of how the work of people can be transformed into something Disney, is how Chris Sanders' art of Lilo and Stitch was transformed into more of the Disney style for the final film. You'll have to look around to see comparisons of his own sketches and the final film designs, but it's there. That Disney essence worked on it, if you will.

I think that if anyone says some other company's work feels Disney, they aren't being discerning enough to tell exactly what the real, specific Disney feel is, they're just being rather general, and may not even be aware of it.

Wow wow wow, so know you think "Lilo & Stitch" is Disney enough for you?

[Super Aurora]

Well, what will solve all the questions is that you forgot the other thing I said (I understand how it got "lost" among everything else):

That people can only make something feel truly like Disney whem they intend to make it be Disney or in the Disney style. So if Chris Sanders isn't intending his character to be a Disney character, it won't quite work. But he did, when he was working for Disney.

A good example of how the work of people can be transformed into something Disney, is how Chris Sanders' art of Lilo and Stitch was transformed into more of the Disney style for the final film. You'll have to look around to see comparisons of his own sketches and the final film designs, but it's there. That Disney essence worked on it, if you will.

I think that if anyone says some other company's work feels Disney, they aren't being discerning enough to tell exactly what the real, specific Disney feel is, they're just being rather general, and may not even be aware of it.

Wow wow wow, so know you think "Lilo & Stitch" is Disney enough for you?

[/img]

[sunhuntin]

Dear Disney Enthusiasts,

I don't mind if nobody really wants to respond to most of my message, but could someone please tell me how Merida's name is supposed to be pronounced? Thank you in advance for any information that you may have about the pronunciation of Merida's name.

Thank you in advance for your replies.

ive been pronouncing it "mer-ih-da" with a short "i" like in meredith, instead of a long "i" like merry. im not sure which is right.

[Dr Frankenollie]

Well, what will solve all the questions is that you forgot the other thing I said (I understand how it got "lost" among everything else):

That people can only make something feel truly like Disney whem they intend to make it be Disney or in the Disney style. So if Chris Sanders isn't intending his character to be a Disney character, it won't quite work. But he did, when he was working for Disney.

A good example of how the work of people can be transformed into something Disney, is how Chris Sanders' art of Lilo and Stitch was transformed into more of the Disney style for the final film. You'll have to look around to see comparisons of his own sketches and the final film designs, but it's there. That Disney essence worked on it, if you will.

I think that if anyone says some other company's work feels Disney, they aren't being discerning enough to tell exactly what the real, specific Disney feel is, they're just being rather general, and may not even be aware of it.

Disney Duster, you are clearly insane. If there is a Disney Essence (and I doubt it), then it's how Disney movies bring out the child in all of us. And as for your belief that something can only truly be 'Disney' when it is intended to be 'Disney'-what is 'Disney' in this context? Disney is a company that exists to make money and to entertain the majority. When you say 'Disney' do you mean the 'Disney Essence'? You have repeatedly claimed that the Disney Essence is all about fairy tales, fantasy and nature. So, by your own logic, Lilo & Stitch can't have the Disney Essence. Once again, you have contradicted yourself.

[pinkrenata]

I don't mind if nobody really wants to respond to most of my message, but could someone please tell me how Merida's name is supposed to be pronounced? Thank you in advance for any information that you may have about the pronunciation of Merida's name.

Meh-RI-da? Does anyone else have any ideas?

[UmbrellaFish]

I don't mind if nobody really wants to respond to most of my message, but could someone please tell me how Merida's name is supposed to be pronounced? Thank you in advance for any information that you may have about the pronunciation of Merida's name.

This is totally not the correct pronunciation, but I'll use it till I hear her name in a trailer- Mare-id-e-uh. Which would have to be spelled "Meridia."

TBH, I just like the way it sounds...

[Elladorine]

I don't mind if nobody really wants to respond to most of my message, but could someone please tell me how Merida's name is supposed to be pronounced? Thank you in advance for any information that you may have about the pronunciation of Merida's name.

This is totally not the correct pronunciation, but I'll use it till I hear her name in a trailer- Mare-id-e-uh. Which would have to be spelled "Meridia."

TBH, I just like the way it sounds...

I keep wanting to pronounce it that way too! It would be such a pretty name. But for the time being I'm going with "MARE-ih-duh," similar to the way Meredith sounds.

[Animalia]

Merida's name is supposed to be pronounced? Thank you in advance for any information that you may have about the pronunciation of Merida's name.

Merida is actually a name of a capital in Mexico (I didn't know that). They have tour guide videos and the one I found the guy pronounced it Mare-uh-dah.
But I wouldn't be surprised if Pixar pronounced it differently. So we may as well pronounce it each our own way. No one will ever know on the thread.

[DisneyFan09]

Hey guys. Here is an article with some new character images from "Brave", including Queen Elinor.

The latter looks gorgeous.

http://www.ropeofsilicon.com/article/ch ... xars-brave

Look and enjoy.

[Disney Duster]

PatrickvD, um, I can't be "arrogant" when I begged someone to take back something that hurt me. Just because the person didn't intend to hurt doesn't mean it didn't hurt. People accidentally hurt others all the time and people ask them if they might un-do the hurt, and if he refused to do it I would have let it go. That's not arrogant. I'd say you attacking was more arrogant, and you do it to other people on here, too.

Wow wow wow, so know you think "Lilo & Stitch" is Disney enough for you?

Only parts of it. They could have Disneyfied it more, but the Disneyfication of Chris Sanders art provided a good example for what I was talking about.

Disney Duster, you are clearly insane. If there is a Disney Essence (and I doubt it), then it's how Disney movies bring out the child in all of us. And as for your belief that something can only truly be 'Disney' when it is intended to be 'Disney'-what is 'Disney' in this context? Disney is a company that exists to make money and to entertain the majority. When you say 'Disney' do you mean the 'Disney Essence'? You have repeatedly claimed that the Disney Essence is all about fairy tales, fantasy and nature. So, by your own logic, Lilo & Stitch can't have the Disney Essence. Once again, you have contradicted yourself.

But don't other things bring out the child in us? Disney has to be more than that, otherwise we couldn't tell Disney from the other child animations that do that. Or do you really think Disney's the only one that can do that? Well, Disney also does some rather adult things, and often brings out the child with artful animation and fantasy stories told and done in a Disney way, different from any other studio.

Lots of things are meant to make money and entertain, so when anyone intends something to be Disney, they mean it to be more than that. Some Disney essence or Disney style.

And Lilo & Stitch is rather un-Disney to me, but I it almost touches the fantasy part by possibly being sci-fantasy. I felt if they made Stitch a little less of a gross, vulgar, destructive alien experiment, maybe threw in something about how Stitch's spirit miraculously was good even though his physical body was made by a scientist, and things generally were less violent or weird, it would be more Disney. If you disagree, whatever, but this is what I think may be true. So no, I didn't contradict myself.

And what is the deal with you using words like insane, dumb and stupid to me? The first time you ever talked to me, you said I had "stupid demands". First of all, that is wrong because I never demanded anything. I got offended by something someone said, so I asked them very very politely if they would change what they said. I didn't say a single mean thing to them, and not a single thing at all to you, and yet the first thing you ever did to me was attack me and use the word "stupid".

So because of that, that actually would make you the stupid jerk, not being able to argue without using such offensive words to hurt and distract from whatever argument you may not be good a forming, but if you apologize to me, then maybe we can finally stop this animosity between us, because I do not want to do anything that might hurt you, but I am merely acting towards you the way you first acted towards me.

I will even say please. Please apologize to me, and I will apologize for anything I did towards you that you wish me to...well, depending on what it is. I think it's fair enough what I'm asking of you, though.

[Dr Frankenollie]

NOTE: My responses here are also part of my reply to Disney Duster in the Mort Thread, but are edited and are much less detailed here. For my full answer to Duster, please refer to my reply in the Mort Thread.

But don't other things bring out the child in us? Disney has to be more than that, otherwise we couldn't tell Disney from the other child animations that do that. Or do you really think Disney's the only one that can do that? Well, Disney also does some rather adult things, and often brings out the child with artful animation and fantasy stories told and done in a Disney way, different from any other studio.

Lots of things are meant to make money and entertain, so when anyone intends something to be Disney, they mean it to be more than that. Some Disney essence or Disney style.

While other things also bring out the child in all of us, in my humble opinion, Disney does it best; Disney is part of my childhood, its movies, its characters, its television series, its theme parks, etc. I might be nothing more than a nostalgic, doddering old fool, but nevertheless Walt himself always talked about how he intended to bring out the child in all of us with all his movies (as well as being innovative). When Walt started making movies and had Disneyland built, he wasn't thinking 'I want everyone to experience fairy tales' or 'I want everything to watch something involving fantasy and nature', he wanted to make us feel like an innocent, carefree child once again. That's what makes Disney so unique, and so special, not because of your 'Disney Essence', but because it gives the opportunity to be wholly innocent and without a care or worry in the world.

And what is the deal with you using words like insane, dumb and stupid to me? The first time you ever talked to me, you said I had "stupid demands". First of all, that is wrong because I never demanded anything. I got offended by something someone said, so I asked them very very politely if they would change what they said. I didn't say a single mean thing to them, and not a single thing at all to you, and yet the first thing you ever did to me was attack me and use the word "stupid".

Look, if you post something stupid on here, everyone else (including me) should be allowed to call you out on it; that's part of discussion. Secondly, you were making stupid requests; fine, they might not have been proper demands as I originally stated, but nonetheless what you were saying was stupid: you were asking somebody who had simply said that the 'Brave' trailer looked like old Disney to edit their post because you disagreed with them. Does that mean I could simply ask you 'very very politely' to stop stating your opinions and say you agree with me? If it did, I would've asked you to do so a long time ago. When other posters pointed out the stupidity of your requests, you said that everyone was being 'so mean' to you and (as I previously said) acted like a complete and utter drama queen.

So because of that, that actually would make you the stupid jerk, not being able to argue without using such offensive words to hurt and distract from whatever argument you may not be good a forming, but if you apologize to me, then maybe we can finally stop this animosity between us, because I do not want to do anything that might hurt you, but I am merely acting towards you the way you first acted towards me.

I'm most certainly not the stupid jerk; what have I done that makes me a jerk? What offensive words have I used? I haven't swore, or used derogatory slurs, I have just pointed out the repetetive silliness in all your posts.

I will even say please. Please apologize to me, and I will apologize for anything I did towards you that you wish me to...well, depending on what it is. I think it's fair enough what I'm asking of you, though.

Okay; I'm sorry if I've hurt your feelings. I am not sorry for disagreeing with you, however, and will continue to disagree with your opinions. As you said that you would apologise for anything you did towards me, please apologise to me for being so incredibly immature and melodramatic when it comes to a simple Internet discussion board. If you do not apologise to me like I did to you, then I shall edit this post and get rid of my apology.

[DancingCrab]

Meanwhile, back in the magical land of On Topic ...

BRAVE looks pretty sweet. Even though I had some fun with the E.T./Merida photoshop, I don't have ANY problem with the design of her character. I was just make a humorous (to me, at least) observation that their heads and neck shared a similar shape. I kind of like that they are stepping away from the standard Disney princess look actually.

As for the Brother Bear similarities, I remember thinking what an awesome concept BB was, and then kind of disappointed in the final execution. Hopefully this movie will be the film Brother Bear SHOULD have been.

Also, I am a helpless sucker for anything Celtic, so I will be very forgiving of any faults most likely due to my obsession with such.