Future Plans For WDW's Fantasyland

[David S.]

So, turns out everything will open next year. YAY!

And less than 30 years after the opening of Disneyland's New Fantasyland, no less!

LOL, yes, and still with less attractions than Disneyland's New Fantasyland from nearly 30 years ago!

David S., You spoke so much better than I could have, thank you, so very, very well said. The only thing is a feel bad that you are so angry. you have always been just like an innocent kid here, that I hate to see you have to be like that. But I think it shows that Disney is doing something that finally was so bad it got you this mad. If only me, you, and others could rise up and tell Disney this!

Thanks for the kind words Disney Duster, and also for being VERY perceptive to the idea that I try to stay in touch with the innocence of my "Inner Child". I didn't realize I had made that much of an impression, but with my tastes, I take your description as the highest compliment!

I should stress that even though I am VERY dissapointed in the demolition of Toontown and future planned demolition of the Snow White ride, my "anger" is very controlled and not of a physical sort! (just to make sure no one got the wrong idea )

In the last 24 hours I received my WDW Annual Pass renewal offer and also saw a YouTube clip showing what appeared to be Mickey's House demolished (it was hard to tell as it was filmed through a fence, but the author of the video seemed convinced that Mickey's House has indeed already been bulldozed) . Also, photos have turned up of some of the props from Toontown being sold/auctioned by Disney.

So all of this had me thinking a lot about these issues lately.

In the 90's they tore down lots of my beloved favorites in the MK and Epcot, but things have been relatively stable for the last several years.

With me saying I would stay away from WDW for awhile in order to visit DL, don't feel bad about that. It's not like a "childish" boycott of "taking my ball and going home" or anything like that. The reality is it takes a LOT of money and time to make the dream and fantasy of spending a lot of time in the Disney parks come true. And I have certainly put in this time and money into WDW the last several years. I know the WDW parks better than I ever dreamed possible, and I've only been to Disneyland twice in my lifetime. The last was a good, long time ago, and I've been craving a return for a long time.

With my beloved Toontown gone from the MK, and beloved Snow White ride soon to follow, as well as with DCA getting a bunch of new attractions in the next two years (including the same Mermaid ride MK is getting), this seems like the perfect time to take a break from WDW for awhile, take a breather, and put the money I would have spent during that time at WDW towards a long-awaited Disneyland trip, enjoying all of the unique attractions there that are not in Florida and probably never will be.

(The rest of this may be a bit long and meandering, but Duster's post inspired me to share this):

I was thinking about Mickey's House and Minnie's House lately, and how charming they are, and about how all the details inside not only create rich "backstory" and make them believable as Mickey and Minnie's Houses, but also give them a very warm and happy feeling, and truly make them feel like "Homes".

Being from New Orleans and dealing with the aftermath of Katrina, the concept of what makes a house a "Home" is something I've already thought about, and was fresh on my mind when first arriving in Orlando in 2006. Almost everyone I know lost everything they owned (I was one of the luckier ones as I had a second-story apartment higher than the water line), and I've seen the sad devestation of Homes flooded above the roof having to be torn down and turned to rubble.

I've read the architecture of the Disney parks being referred to as the "architecture of reassurance" and I certainly feel Mickey and Minnie's Houses fit this description with their colorful pallettes and whimsical "squash and stretch" curved architecture; and the aformentioned warm and inviting interiors.

I never thought in 2006 after moving to Florida (at first year-round, then seasonally, now I basically just spend lots of time there ), that just a few years later, I would be mourning the loss of those very Mouse Homes that were so warm and welcoming to me when I first arrived in Florida and had a place to live, but didn't have a "Home" in the emotional sense. And not due to any storm destroying them either, but the company itself tearing down Mickey and Minnie Mouse's Homes. Perhaps my feelings on this matter are enhanced partly because of Katrina, but in any case the idea of this happening just seems so cold and incongruous with what the "Disney Magic" is supposed to be all about, at least for me.

With regards to the idea of "innocence" that Duster mentioned, I will say the hurricane was the biggest test yet of my innocence as the storm had given me a layer of hardened jaded cynicism, bitterness, and world-weariness I had never felt before, and that I didn't like.

More than any other parks, Disney parks aren't about physical thrills as much as they are about "Magic" and "Wonder" and about making/feeling an emotional connection with the place.

I have to say, on my first day back at WDW after the storm, in 2006, I wasn't completely "feeling" it.

It was nice seeing all my old favorite attractions again, but there was still a large degree of emotional "disconnect" - I wasn't seeing things through the eyes of my inner 8-year old like I normally would. Nothing really gave me goosebumps or made me cry (tears of happiness) like it normally would, especially after not being there for awhile.

My last ride of that first night was Big Thunder. After that, since Wishes would be starting at park closing, I was trying to make it to Fantasyland or in front of the Castle for my first-ever viewing of Wishes. But I mistimed things and the fanfare started playing while I was walking along the riverfront.

So I stopped and watched along the river, near the Frontierland/Liberty Square border, and I could see some of the shells beautifully reflecting in the water.

I felt the first tinge of goosebumps when Peter Pan says "I wish we'd never have to grow up - off to Neverland!", followed by Pinocchio's "Jiminy, someday I wish I could be a real boy", and Aladdin's "Genie, I wish for your freedom".

But what really got me was the finale. What makes this show isn't just the visuals of the fireworks, but the combination of the fireworks WITH the soundtrack - both music and dialogue.

When good overcomes the forces of evil, and Jiminy says "It's the Blue Fairy!" and then the Blue Fairy is represented by the rapid-fire big blue bursts scored to the Wishes fanfare and then says "Remember, we must always believe in our Wishes, for they are the Magic in the world. Now, let's all put our hearts together, and make a wish come true", I just completely and totally lost it. It was the first real cry I had since the storm, and the first time that day (or since the storm) that I saw anything in life again through the eyes of my inner little boy.

That finale was really a transcendental spiritual experience for me. I remember feeling such a sense of relief that I hadn't lost my inner child and childlike sense of wonder. This was also the first moment where I felt the internalized angst of the storm begin to wash away. Since then, I am happy to say that the jaded cynicism and bitterness I felt in the aftermath of the storm has completely faded away, and I have seen all 4 WDW parks through the eyes of my inner child, getting the goosebumps and tears of joy in many places where they didn't come that first day.

Since that first viewing, I have seen Wishes many, many times, and during each one of them I've been moved by it. Maybe not to tears every single time, but usually at least goosebumps.

But something strange happened during the last week of Toontown and Mickey and Minnie's Houses. I first noticed it during the "Dream Along With Mickey" Castle show, and later during Wishes. These shows are about the power of believing in your dreams, and wishes coming true. Some would say Disney overuses words like "Wishes", "Dreams", and "Believe" in their in-park entertainment productions, almost in a quasi-religious sort of way, but nonetheless I can't help feeling touched by them.

But on my visit that last week, it just felt so HOLLOW to me. Hearing the talk of "Wishes" and "Dreams" just made me think of the Wishes and Dreams of the real little kids who love Mickey and Minnie's Homes and won't be able to visit them anymore. (Indeed, I saw several children, and even a few parents, CRYING with sadness during their last visit in Toontown. WDW is NOT supposed to be like this!)

And the great irony of seeing Mickey smiling away on stage at the Castle show talking about "Dreams Coming True If You Just Believe" just seemed so incongruous with the idea that his Home would soon have a date with the wrecking ball! This killed the illusion that it really is his house, because in "real life", Mickey and the gang would be protesting in the street with signs to save their Homes!

(And yes, I know on one level it's a "business" and an "illusion", but my point is the parks are more fun, and you can FEEL them more, when you let yourself go with, and COMPLETELY buy into, the Fantasy of the stories being told in the parks.)

So, what I'm getting at is, on my last visit to the Magic Kingdom, I felt a level of cynicism and jadedness that even Katrina couldn't sustain. The "Magic" of the parks was able to defeat the cynicism I initially felt my first visit after Katrina, but on my last visit, when the source of the cynicism was THE PARKS THEMSELVES (ie, the decision to tear down Toontown and the Mouse Homes), I didn't fare as well. On that day, I got a hollow and cynical glimpse of it being "just a business", of the MK being "just a theme park", and the talk of Wishes and Dreams just seemed like a shallow facade in the context of Toontown closing.

And that, more than anything, spoke volumes to me that it is a good time for a break. Of course, I'll go back and give a proper goodbye to Snow White during it's last days, but after that I plan to let my annual pass lapse for at least a year or two and focus my (Disney theme park) attention on Disneyland instead.

To anyone who made it this far, thanks for reading, and thanks again to Disney Duster for the encouraging words and for understanding where I'm coming from!

[DisneyAnimation88]

If only me, you, and others could rise up and tell Disney this!

Well become an imagineer and do something about it then.

To the matter at hand, I'm not disagreeing with what David S. said, on the contrary I agree with it. I've been to WDW every year since 1995, sometimes twice a year, and I genuinely love the place. But, as much as I too am disappointed to see Toontown and SWSA go, I'm excited about the expansion.

I would be fine with polling people at the park why they don't like a ride and what they could do to make them like the same ride, just changed.

That's what they do. I've been stopped by a cast member and asked about Peter Pan's Flight, the Jungle Cruise and Carousel of Progress. I suppose if enough people don't like the ride, it makes sense to Disney to remove it.

Now, I'm no more a fan of changes than anyone else, but there are obviously reasons, known or unknown, behind the expansion.

Exactly. Disney don't make decisions like this on a whim. While it may not seem like it to to us, there is usually a method to their madness.

[David S.]

As for Wonders of Life et al. -- yeah, it's really, <i>really</i> lame what happened to those attractions. Still, I think it's a matter of money over anything else. Like I said before, a number of people are paid to work in each area. If studies are done and if those studies show that attendance is low, it isn't worth it to keep those areas fully staffed.

Good point, and I don't doubt that this is true in some cases. It makes the destruction of Toontown even more baffling, though, as Minnie's House and Donald's Boat were never staffed, at least on my visits. There used to sometimes be a greeter in front of Mickey's House, but have not seen that in a while.

And of course Toontown and the Mouse Houses were wildly popular, as evidenced by the general congestion in the area (even on non-peak days) and the mobs of people in Mickey and Minnie's Houses! When I say 'wildly popular" I don't necessarily mean with the community of online fans, (many of whom could never get past their disdain for the tents to appreciate the charm of the Houses). I mean with a large percentage of the masses of people visiting the park on a daily basis.

If only me, you, and others could rise up and tell Disney this!

Well become an imagineer and do something about it then.

To the matter at hand, I'm not disagreeing with what David S. said, on the contrary I agree with it. I've been to WDW every year since 1995, sometimes twice a year, and I genuinely love the place. But, as much as I too am disappointed to see Toontown and SWSA go, I'm excited about the expansion.

Thanks. And I'm not saying the expansion is entirely without merit. I'm looking forward to the Mermaid ride and the Beauty and the Beast section. Unfortunately, my excitement is tempered though by the sadness of what is being needlessly lost. Just think of how exciting it would be if the happiness of the new attractions wasn't tinged by the sadness of losing beloved favorites!

I would be fine with polling people at the park why they don't like a ride and what they could do to make them like the same ride, just changed.

That's what they do. I've been stopped by a cast member and asked about Peter Pan's Flight, the Jungle Cruise and Carousel of Progress. I suppose if enough people don't like the ride, it makes sense to Disney to remove it.

To be fair, I've heard from multiple sources that, (at least when it comes to removals) Disney often engineers these questions to support what they want to do. Just ask JT Toad (who ran the SaveToad.com website in 1998) about the questions survey takers were asking. Things like "Would you enjoy a new Winnie the Pooh attraction?" Or, asking them which character they were more familiar with. No one ever asked "Would you be in favor of closing Mr. Toad", which was a VERY popular attraction!

Now, I'm no more a fan of changes than anyone else, but there are obviously reasons, known or unknown, behind the expansion.

Exactly. Disney don't make decisions like this on a whim. While it may not seem like it to to us, there is usually a method to their madness.

Sometimes I agree that there is logic to it. Like when Pooh's Playful Spot closed, the most iconic elements like the big tree, eventually made their way across the midway into the New Pooh Queue, which I think most would agree is more satisfying and fun for kids (and kids at heart) than the old playground was. And does a much better job of setting up the story and serving as a "preshow" to the ride than the old queue did.

Other times it just seems like "madness", though. Like the boneheaded decision in around '98 to remove Figment from the Imagination ride. What were they smoking? This move was universally hated by both fanboys and the general public, so much so that Disney had to hastily (by their standards) backpedal and put Figment back into a third version of the ride, which I enjoy, but not as much as the original. And it doesn't get as many riders as the original did. Think of how much money, time, and goodwill they could have saved if they would have just left the original ALONE! Sometimes change can be a good thing, but "if it ain't broke, don't 'fix' it!"

And then other decisions are purely based on trying to cut corners and save cash. Like building DCA initially on the cheap, and now having to spend billions more in order to improve the park than if they would have just made a bigger initial investment.

Another smaller example is not renewing the contracts of several World Showcase performers (Norway and China are now completely without live entertaiment). This sort of thing is great for the executives who get their annual bonuses for keeping the profit margins up, but is "bad show" for the guests who are paying a premium price for a premium product and are getting less than they used to.

And this last part here isn't a response to any poster in particular, but just some more thoughts:

I think what it all boils down to is that sometimes, things that make "sense" to management from a business standpoint do not make sense from an aesthetic, Artistic viewpoint. And as a paying guest, aesthete, and conneiseur of the Disney parks as works of Art, I don't consider it my job to view them as a business or as "just theme parks". Indeed, that distracts from the "Magic" and aesthetic appreciation of them, at least for me.

People hold Disney to a higher standard than other parks for precisely these reasons (in addition to the higher prices):

1) Because the parks are not mere "theme parks", but are works of Art. (If Disneyland and Magic Kingdom are simply "theme parks", then Tchaikovsky was "just" a guy who wrote some tunes, the Beatles were "just" a band, etc); and

2) Because of the emotional connection people feel to the parks and their attractions. Most parks would love to be able to make this deep connection with their customers, but the trade-off is that decisions are heavily scrutinized and removals can be unpopular. Because people deeply CARE about these parks, not just in their local markets, but all over the country and even the world. Again, this isn't the local Six Flags trading in a Scrambler for a Tilt-a-Whirl!

[Super Aurora]

I think what it all boils down to is that sometimes, things that make "sense" to management from a business standpoint do not make sense from an aesthetic, Artistic viewpoint.

This is definitely true and is basically what it really boils down to actually.
The main key to to balance the two out for true great success.



As for the topic in hand, I personally never cared or thought Toon town was all that great compared to Disneyland's. So the abolishing of Toon town doesn't affect me like it does for others here.

As for some of changes, while it shame the old snow white ride is gone, I personally not affected but it being torn down in favor of the newer mine cart one. The old Snow white ride died for me in WDW when they took out the ultra terror version out. That one kick's ass. So this current one can go for all I care. At least the one in DL still there which has a much better artistic design facade and queue.

What I do found is dumb is for that ride to be replaced into another shitty disney princess meeting n greet. It defeated the whole purpose of the changes to begin with.(too much in-your-face disney princess crap) The snow white ride should of been replace into a Pinocchio ride or something.

The only other complaint I have is too much dumbo for my taste.

Other than that I think the expansion is fine. Sure it's shame the cinderella and Aurora is scrapped out, but I we still have something good in our hand.


I have to say and PrincePhillipFan to me also, That WDW exec seems to not care about it's conditions and properties compared to it's DL counterpart. An example is giving so little for a park designed to hold so much more space than DL's, yet never took the advantage to do so. While DL who's much smaller, tend to fill so much for such a park. Especially Fantasyland.
Although I find WDW's Haunted Mansion superior, especially now.

[WonderlandFever]

The latest Magic Kingdom photo report! Lots of pictures, shows the work wrapping up on the new Town Square Theatre and of course new Fantasyland and lots more

http://wdwnewstoday.com/archives/6672

[Disney Duster]

David S., I read your whole story, and that was kind of shockingly sad and moving. I wouldn't say you need to be like a child to have goosebumps or tears, either, I think that's simply being more touched and sensitive and emotional, more feeling, I don't think it means you have to be child-like, though I know you try to be that, too. You know, I actually thought one same thing as you. How can Disney talk about everyone's dreams coming true, but then destroy people's dreams? They can't make everything everyone wants, but that is different from ripping out old dreams already made, or telling us about a dream come true (like Cindy's chateau) and then destroying that, too.

Disney Animation, I do not need to become an imagineer to tell Disney what they need to do. If I'm a person who will enjoy and pay for their rides, that's all I need to be to be someone who can tell them what I want to pay for. It's just that the fanboys on the internet are not thinking: that we should all E-mail Disney what we want or get down their and protest outside their park, or even in their park. They aren't thinking of that, so I'm saying it now.

Also, they need to either poll people on what they don't like about a ride to simply change the ride instead of replace it. If too many people hate it, then they can remove it, but the key is to not remove rides if enough people love them, and Toontown was such ride. Meanwhile, they just needed to make Snow White's ride a coaster within the dark ride, and make it a little less scary. But sometimes classics, like a very old dark ride modeled after an original Disneyland ride about Walt's first feature just needs to stay, you know?

Personally I'm a lot happier with this plan than the original. I thought the first idea was really boring, and didn't have a lot in it that I (as a male adult) would necessarily want to participate in. I also felt that the Cinderella Chateau was a little too much Cindy, and secretly wished that they'd replace it with Snow Whites cottage, lol.

UM...well then how come that's too much Cindy, but Belle will have a show, a whole village with a tavern and her cottage, and a castle with three rooms and two of them restaraunts? Or Ariel having her own show and now a ride? How come Cidny would be getting too much but not those two other princesses?!

[disneyprincess11]

The latest Magic Kingdom photo report! Lots of pictures, shows the work wrapping up on the new Town Square Theatre and of course new Fantasyland and lots more

http://wdwnewstoday.com/archives/6672

Wow, thanks for posting! Little Mermaid is looking great so far! They need to work on Snow White if they want to make to the 2012 goal!

You're welcome, Duster and BDF!

BTW: So, Snow White will be closing at the end of the year/early next week, I'm taking? Why can't they close it now, so the M&G can be ready on time for the opening?

So, turns out everything will open next year. YAY!

And less than 30 years after the opening of Disneyland's New Fantasyland, no less!

And right before/after my high school graduation! Now, take a good, deep breath into the nose. You know what I smell? I smell a early/belated HS grad. gift to go to the grand opennnning! Unless my brothers and sisters, and college $$ get in the way -__- Your thoughts?

David S, well said, my dear! I'm fine over SW closing cuz I have never been a fan of that ride. I'm sad over Minnie closing. BUT, I AM FURIOUS OVER THEM CANCELLING AURORA'S COTTAGE! SHE'S MY FAVORITE PRINCESS AND SB IS MY FAVE MOVIE! SO, WHAT DO THEY DO WHEN THEY WERE FINALLY ADDING A SB THING IN THE DARN PLACE?! THROW IT OUT LIKE A PEELED BANANA! WHY CAN'T THEY TAKE OUT "SOME" PLACE IN SB CIRCUS TO ADD IT?! OK, I'm done ranting! But, I am looking forward to Snow White!

And I just thought of something today: As much as I love Ariel and Belle's castles in the park, it will be so weird because you have Cinderella's Castle, then you have 2 others behind it and it'll be confusing to some people.

And also, I think the SB Circus is a little bit dumb and pointless, b/c they're same rides we always have ridden on. Think about it: All of this for a 2-MINUTE ride THAT'S ALREADY THERE when they could use the space to add Cinderella's house, AURORA'S COLLEGE, and EVEN Rapunzel's tower and the Snuggly Ducky!

[David S.]

David S. You know, I actually thought one same thing as you. How can Disney talk about everyone's dreams coming true, but then destroy people's dreams? They can't make everything everyone wants, but that is different from ripping out old dreams already made, or telling us about a dream come true (like Cindy's chateau) and then destroying that, too.

Great point! I don't think they should have announced Cindy's Chateau and Aurora's Cottage unless they were 100 percent sure they were happening, so as to not disappoint fans when they changed their mind. It seems like they've been sort of winging it and making up the plans as they go.

And I agree that the Chateau would not have been too much Cindy. She has the Castle and the Carousel was once named after her, but not a dark ride, show, or a walk-through that really explores the world of the film. And as you know, because of the Chateau (that got canceled anyway), they took her name off the Carousel and named it "Prince Charming Regal Carousel" , in a silly attempt to make parts of Fantasyland more "appealing to boys" and more "masculine".

So now poor Cindy has less of a presence in Fantasyland's attractions than before the changes began! I say they should at least put her name back on the carousel, and put the cute Gus and Jaq mice figures back on the sign - they were removed with the name change, as I guess they were considered not "masculine" enough.

And poor Aurora has no presence in the MK Fantasyland at all, even though she has the Castle and a nice walk-through at Disneyland.

Disney Animation, I do not need to become an imagineer to tell Disney what they need to do. If I'm a person who will enjoy and pay for their rides, that's all I need to be to be someone who can tell them what I want to pay for. It's just that the fanboys on the internet are not thinking: that we should all E-mail Disney what we want or get down their and protest outside their park, or even in their park. They aren't thinking of that, so I'm saying it now.

For what its worth, I left some written comments at Guest Relations on my last visit, expressing my sadness over the loss of Toontown and the Snow White ride.

PS. I didn't mean to imply that the only way to be sensitive and feeling was to be childlike, if you took it that way

[WonderlandFever]

Wow, thanks for posting! Little Mermaid is looking great so far! They need to work on Snow White if they want to make to the 2012 goal!

You're welcome, Duster and BDF!

BTW: So, Snow White will be closing at the end of the year/early next week, I'm taking? Why can't they close it now, so the M&G can be ready on time for the opening?

I don't think the mine train will be open for quite some time, I remember originally hearing 2013 but I can't find where I read that....I know they aren't closing SWSA until Ariel's ride opens because they don't want to be down an attraction especially going into peak season

[WonderlandFever]

It is weird how it seems like at the parks it's got to be either Cinderella or Aurora....Cinderella for Magic Kingdom and Aurora for Disneyland and they can't have anything other? lol Well at least you're able to meet Aurora at Disney World compared to how rare she used to be but I did look forward to having something representing Sleeping Beauty at Magic Kingdom, although my ideal version would have included Maleficent somehow.

[disneyprincess11]

It is weird how it seems like at the parks it's got to be either Cinderella or Aurora....Cinderella for Magic Kingdom and Aurora for Disneyland and they can't have anything other? lol Well at least you're able to meet Aurora at Disney World compared to how rare she used to be but I did look forward to having something representing Sleeping Beauty at Magic Kingdom, although my ideal version would have included Maleficent somehow.

yea thats a great idea!

[DisneyAnimation88]

I do not need to become an imagineer to tell Disney what they need to do. If I'm a person who will enjoy and pay for their rides, that's all I need to be to be someone who can tell them what I want to pay for. It's just that the fanboys on the internet are not thinking: that we should all E-mail Disney what we want or get down their and protest outside their park, or even in their park. They aren't thinking of that, so I'm saying it now.

So what are you going to do, picket Toontown? David S. is right, if you don't like what Disney is doing write to them. That might get you further than organising some sort of revolt that will more than likely get you banned from WDW anyway.

Meanwhile, they just needed to make Snow White's ride a coaster within the dark ride, and make it a little less scary. But sometimes classics, like a very old dark ride modeled after an original Disneyland ride about Walt's first feature just needs to stay, you know?

The size of the coaster they've planned makes it impossible to stage it in that building, it's too small. Also, did you know that Walt Disney actually didn't want SWSA in WDW? He apparently didn't want any replicas of rides from Disneyland.

UM...well then how come that's too much Cindy, but Belle will have a show, a whole village with a tavern and her cottage, and a castle with three rooms and two of them restaraunts? Or Ariel having her own show and now a ride? How come Cidny would be getting too much but not those two other princesses?!

The reason the Beauty and the Beast and Little Mermaid attraction have remained intact is probably because Disney and the imagineers were happier with those plans than they were with the Cinderella Chateau and Sleeping Beuaty Cottage. I know they've ruined your dreams but Disney can't be expected to invest millions of dollars in an idea they're not completely happy with, whether you like it or not.

And poor Aurora has no presence in the MK Fantasyland at all, even though she has the Castle and a nice walk-through at Disneyland.

I agree that that is a shame but John Lasseter and Disney have said that there is still significant room left for future attractions in the expansion, apparently one of which was planned to be based on Tangled, depending on how successful the film was. Who's to say that in five or six years, once Disney have been able to judge how successful the expansion has been, that they won't decide to add attractions based on Tangled, Sleeping Beauty and Cinderella?

It is weird how it seems like at the parks it's got to be either Cinderella or Aurora....Cinderella for Magic Kingdom and Aurora for Disneyland and they can't have anything other? lol Well at least you're able to meet Aurora at Disney World compared to how rare she used to be but I did look forward to having something representing Sleeping Beauty at Magic Kingdom, although my ideal version would have included Maleficent somehow.

To me, this sums up the problems with the Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty attractions. On many of the WDW message boards and forums I use, the consensus seems to be that the majority liked the plans but felt that they were lacking in something, usually appeal for both genders. For Cinderella, I think a lot of people thought that it had no appeal to boys (although I know Disney Duster will disagree with that). Personally, I would have replaced SWSA with a similar Cinderella-themed attraction where they could have used the magic effect that Disney Duster loves. In regards to Sleeping Beauty, I agree with WonderlandFever; they should have created an attraction that included Maleficent, one of Disney's most iconic characters. I don't disagree that Fantasyland is lacking in rides which is why I wasn't as happy with the shows that were planned for the chateau and cottage; I think any space that is left in the expansion would be better spent on actualy rides than elaborate shows, though that is just my personal opinion.

[disneyprincess11]

And poor Aurora has no presence in the MK Fantasyland at all, even though she has the Castle and a nice walk-through at Disneyland.

THANK YOU! EXACTLY!

I agree that that is a shame but John Lasseter and Disney have said that there is still significant room left for future attractions in the expansion, apparently one of which was planned to be based on Tangled, depending on how successful the film was. Who's to say that in five or six years, once Disney have been able to judge how successful the expansion has been, that they won't decide to add attractions based on Tangled, Sleeping Beauty and Cinderella?

WOW! REALLY?! I hope it happens, esepecially if they add Sleeping Beauty either!

[Disney Duster]

David S., actually, I believe what happened was the guy in charge of the expansion at the time announced the Cindy and Aurora plans, but that was before the new guy in charge replaced him and changed the plans.

I'm glad you wrote something down for Disney to read. And I'm glad you don't think you have to be like a child to be able to feel so much.

DisneyAnimation, I'm pretty sure the imagineers for Disney World are the ones who wanted to make new rides, but it was Roy Disney who said he wanted the old dark rides in the new park, to honor his recently passed brother Walt. If Walt said he wanted original rides specifically for the dark rides, I think that should have been honored, but I doubt Roy would go against that.

[David S.]

DisneyAnimation, I'm pretty sure the imagineers for Disney World are the ones who wanted to make new rides, but it was Roy Disney who said he wanted the old dark rides in the new park, to honor his recently passed brother Walt. If Walt said he wanted original rides specifically for the dark rides, I think that should have been honored, but I doubt Roy would go against that.

Yes, that's how I remember reading it too. At the time of Walt's death he was preoccupied with his ideas for Epcot (the proposed city) and I'm not sure if he had really put much thought or planning into what specific attractions would be in the Magic Kingdom and how similar or different it would be with Disneyland. Sadly, Walt passed so early in the planning stages of WDW.

One thing I do know is that in the Epcot film from 1966, Walt is clearly seen speaking in front of a gigantic map of the Florida property, and on that map you can make out the Magic Kingdom with similar landmarks to those found in Disneyland, (such as a Main Street, Jungle Cruise river, Rivers of America, etc). Which seems to indicate that he expected there to be at least SOME similarities between the MK and Disneyland.

The way I remember reading the WDW Fantasyland dark ride story is that some of the Imagineers wanted to go with 3 others (I think Sleepy Hollow, Sleeping Beauty, and Mary Poppins) for the FL dark rides, and Roy O. Disney nixed the idea, saying that to honor Walt they would go with the 3 original Disneyland FL dark rides.

Considering that it was also Roy who insisted the whole project be called Walt Disney World instead of just Disney World to honor his late brother, it would be very surprising to me if he would have knowingly gone against Walt's wishes and built a Snow White ride if Walt had stated he wanted a different ride instead.

But I don't mean any of this as an argument with Disney Animation88. He may have read a different source on this than I did

[DisneyAnimation88]

I have read about Walt Disney not wanting replicas of Disneyland rides but perhaps I'm wrong.

David S., actually, I believe what happened was the guy in charge of the expansion at the time announced the Cindy and Aurora plans, but that was before the new guy in charge replaced him and changed the plans

What happened was the first guy in charge, Jay Rasulo, announced the plans at the D23 Expo without actually waiting for his superiors to sign off on them (that is according to sources on Jim Hill Media). Considering a lot of people were apparently not entirely happy with the plans or Rasulo, this probably helped them come to the decision to replace him with Tom Staggs, who was one of those who was concerned that the expansion was aimed too much at girls before he took charge of the resorts.

[David S.]

WDWMagic has posted new aerial photos which sadly confirm the cold, cruel, savage destruction of Mickey and Minnie Mouse's Homes. Donald Duck's Boat, Toon Park, Toontown Farmers Market, and Pete's Garage are also gone. Several trees from the area are gone as well, including those from Mickey's front and back yards. The only things remaining from Toontown are the Barnstormer Barn, Barnstormer load/unload building, the storage shed for the Barnstormer trains, the Barnstormer track itself (which makes sense, since it's staying with a new theme), and 2 out of the 3 tents, which are apparently staying (the Judge's Tent from Mickey's backyard is gone).

WARNING - These shots of the missing Mouse Homes and other Toontown elements will be painful to view for anyone who loves Toontown as much as I do The first photo is the best for showing what's left of Toontown:

http://www.wdwmagic.com/Attractions/Fan ... -site-.htm

[Big Disney Fan]

The other thing is that I saw this interesting before-after article on the Magic Kingdom between 1983 and 2011, here at Yesterland: http://www.yesterland.com/mkthennow2.html.

Here's what the author said about the ornate structure where Mickey is being shoehorned into:

The ornate structure on the east side of Town Square opened in 1971 as the Hospitality House, presented by Gulf Oil Corporation. It hosted The Walt Disney Story from April 1973 through October 1992. For most of the past two decades, it’s been Exposition Hall, home to the Kodak Camera Center, historical camera displays, photo backdrops, and a small theater area showing Disney animation.

• At the time of the 1983 photo, there was no marquee across the front of the building.
• The lack of such a marquee is an example of how attraction signage was usually much more subtle in earlier decades than now.
• In the 2011 photo, the former Hospitality House is in the process of being transformed into the Town Square Theater, the new meet-and-greet location for Mickey Mouse.
• If the Town Square Theater ends up look like the rendering, there will be nothing subtle about it.

In the interest of time and space, I did not put up the pictures. You can look at the link in the post here if you want. But I guess it's safe to say that just as theme means nothing to Disney anymore, neither does subtlety.

[WonderlandFever]

I really liked that article thanks for sharing


The past few times I've been to Magic Kingdom I remember thinking they need to cut those trees down or trim them back down some around the castle.

[dizfan]

One thing I do know is that in the Epcot film from 1966, Walt is clearly seen speaking in front of a gigantic map of the Florida property, and on that map you can make out the Magic Kingdom with similar landmarks to those found in Disneyland, (such as a Main Street, Jungle Cruise river, Rivers of America, etc). Which seems to indicate that he expected there to be at least SOME similarities between the MK and Disneyland.

The only thing that meant was that the MK was not planned out yet, and Disneyland was being used as a placeholder on the map. At the time of Walt's death the only thing that was firmly planned out was the EPCOT city and the location for the "Theme Park".

We will never know what the "second Disneyland" would have been like had Walt lived to plan and build it.