Episode 3: Revenge of the Gays, Are You One Too?

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Super Aurora
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Post by Super Aurora »

here's more depressing gay news:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/09/nyreg ... ml?_r=3&hp
He was told there was a party at a brick house on Osborne Place, a quiet block set on a steep hill in the Bronx. He showed up last Sunday night as instructed, with plenty of cans of malt liquor. What he walked into was not a party at all, but a night of torture — he was sodomized, burned and whipped.

All punishment, the police said Friday, for being gay.

There were nine attackers, ranging from 16 to 23 years old and calling themselves the Latin King Goonies, the police said. Before setting upon their 30-year-old victim, they had snatched up two teenage boys whom they beat, the police said — until the boys — one of whom was sodomized with a plunger — admitted to having had sex with the man.

The attackers forced the man to strip to his underwear and tied him to a chair, the police said. One of the teenage victims was still there, and the “Goonies” ordered him to attack the man. The teenager hit him in the face and burned him with a cigarette on his nipple and penis as the others jeered and shouted gay slurs, the police said. Then the attackers whipped the man with a chain and sodomized him with a small baseball bat.

The beatings and robberies went on for hours. They were followed by a remarkably thorough attempt to sanitize the house — including pouring bleach down drains, the police said, as little by little word of the attacks trickled to the police. A crucial clue to the attackers was provided by someone who slipped a note to a police officer outside the crime scene, at 1910 Osborne Place in Morris Heights, near Bronx Community College.

Seven suspects were arrested on Thursday and Friday, and two were still being sought in a crime that the leader of the City Council called among the worst hate crimes she had ever heard of. “It makes you sick,” said the Council speaker, Christine C. Quinn, the city’s highest ranking openly gay official.

The charges included abduction, unlawful imprisonment and sodomy, all as hate crimes.

“These suspects deployed terrible, wolf-pack odds of nine against one, which revealed them as predators whose crimes were as cowardly as they were despicable,” Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly said at a news conference.

The assaults are the latest in a string of recent episodes of bullying and attacks against gays. A Rutgers University student jumped to his death off the George Washington Bridge last month, prosecutors said, after his roommate had secretly set up a webcam in their room and streamed over the Internet his sexual encounter with another man. Two men were accused of robbing and beating a man in the Stonewall Inn, a landmark gay bar in Greenwich Village, last weekend while shouting slurs.

Neighbors on Osborne Place said the house, nondescript but for its door painted a bright lime green, had been vacant for some time. A group of teenagers and young men had moved in as squatters, neighbors said, and hosted loud parties.

“You could smell it from them,” said a neighbor who gave only his last name, Gomez. “From the start, you could tell they were trouble.” Mr. Gomez said he and other neighbors had discussed whether anything could be done about the squatters, but nothing came of it.

The nine suspects — the group seemed not so much part of an established gang as a loose group of friends who adopted a nickname — knew some or all three victims. The idea for the attacks seemed to have been hatched last Saturday, after one member of the group saw the 30-year-old man, who he knew was gay, with a 17-year-old who wanted to join the gang, the police said.

Hours later, at 3:30 a.m. on Sunday, the group grabbed the 17-year-old, took him to the house and slammed him into a wall, the police said.

He was beaten, made to strip naked, slashed with a box cutter, hit on the head with a can of beer and sodomized with the wooden handle of a plunger, the police said. And he was interrogated about the 30-year-old and asked if they had had sex.

The teenager said that they had. The gang members set him loose, warning him to keep quiet or they would hurt his friends and family. The teenager walked into a nearby hospital and said he had been jumped by strangers on the street and robbed.

At 8:30 p.m. on Sunday, the police said, the group members grabbed a second 17-year-old, beating and likewise interrogating him about his contact with the 30-year-old. He, too, said he had had sex with the man. They took his jewelry and held him while the 30-year-old arrived for what he thought was a party, his arms filled with 10 tall cans of Four Loko, a caffeine-infused malt liquor. He had cleaned out a store of its entire stock.
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Post by Lazario »

Now I hope some of you understand why I've been so strongly anti-Republican, anti-conservative, and questioning of religion and assumed superior male behavior patterns on this board over the years. You guys hear about this kind of thing every now and then. I hear about it all the time. Violence, suicide, rape, murder. And as long as we remain quiet and allow any faction of America to continue promoting religious-conservative values, we might as well be encouraging this. Gay pride is one thing, but how about any kind of HOPE? Even if you move out of all the cities, this still happens in towns. It doesn't matter where you go- it's not safe to be out. Hell, these articles prove it's not safe to hide either. We're not only living on borrowed time environmentally and economically, we have illusions that we're safe from torture because we live in the "good, ol' U-S-of-A"... Just a fairy tale.
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Post by blackcauldron85 »

That's so horrible. I can't even find words... It sucks that in 2010 this is still going on, with so many hate crimes lately. Laz (and anyone else), do you ever feel unsafe when you're out walking someone, for example? I hope the suspects get 30 years + of prison time...that's awful.
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Post by Super Aurora »

Lazario wrote:Now I hope some of you understand why I've been so strongly anti-Republican, anti-conservative, and questioning of religion and assumed superior male behavior patterns on this board over the years. You guys hear about this kind of thing every now and then. I hear about it all the time. Violence, suicide, rape, murder. And as long as we remain quiet and allow any faction of America to continue promoting religious-conservative values, we might as well be encouraging this. Gay pride is one thing, but how about any kind of HOPE? Even if you move out of all the cities, this still happens in towns. It doesn't matter where you go- it's not safe to be out. Hell, these articles prove it's not safe to hide either. We're not only living on borrowed time environmentally and economically, we have illusions that we're safe from torture because we live in the "good, ol' U-S-of-A"... Just a fairy tale.
You are aware that liberals and democracts can hate gays too right? The article says nothing of anyof them being conservative or republican.
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Post by Lazario »

Super Aurora wrote:You are aware that liberals and democracts can hate gays too right?
What do you think?

Super Aurora wrote:The article says nothing of any of them being conservative or republican.
If you're trying to say I'm in any way stupid- save it. This is not the time. This is an issue I take deadly seriously and I'm not in the mood for your "who gives a shit what you think" routine.

If you want a real answer:

I know violence doesn't come from politics. But who it's directed at certainly is affected by the messages a nation gets. Especially when they're coming from conservative politicians and cultural figures who proudly exclaim they think homosexuality is a sin, a psychological and physical abnormality, a social disease, and punishable by humiliation and death. These factors are just as responsible for directing a person's hatred toward gays as the attitudes they get from family and friends.

I was talking about what makes people do things like that. You'd have to be at least misguided to think incidents like this have nothing to do with institutionalized messages of hate.
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Post by Goliath »

News like that (just like the anti-gay violence in Belgrade) makes me both angry and sad. I despise people who think and act like that, and I have nothing but contempt for the any person who promotes the idea that homosexuality is a 'sin' or a 'crime'. I completely agree with Lazario about the role politicians (and media personalities) play in feeding anti-gay sentiment.

And that's why it hurt and offended me when Disney Duster and him suggested that I'm a homophobe myself --without any reason to imply this. Really guys, what got into you? Shame on you.

























blackcauldron85 wrote:Oh, Mark. You know I <3 you,
You do? :oops: Aw, shucks!
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Post by Lazario »

Goliath wrote:And that's why it hurt and offended me when Disney Duster and him suggested that I'm a homophobe myself --without any reason to imply this. Really guys, what got into you? Shame on you.
I never really called you a homophobe. I just reminded you, on one occasion, that Disney Duster had a pretty good argument for you having said something that was suspiciously not empathetic. And you know what? Even as I did that, I couldn't remember what the hell it was. It was months ago.
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Post by Goliath »

Lazario wrote:I never really called you a homophobe. I just reminded you, on one occasion, that Disney Duster had a pretty good argument [...]
That's a contradiction in terms...
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Post by Lazario »

Not the way I see it.

There's a big difference between me telling you you are a homophobe because of something unequivocal I've seen you say, and saying I think someone has a good reason for calling you a homophobe because you said something which seemed suspicious.

Where in that lies this contradiction? I couldn't call you a homophobe unless I felt I definitely knew it was your intention to say something hateful.
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Post by Super Aurora »

Lazario wrote: What do you think?
that post before gave me the impression that only conservative and republicans are anti-gay. Gave off the impression that you were making a generalization without looking the other side.

Lazario wrote:If you're trying to say I'm in any way stupid- save it.
I'm not. I'm merely pointing out that you should just make the generalization that ONLY conservative and republicans hates gays. There are others "groups" that does so as well.
Lazario wrote:This is not the time. This is an issue I take deadly seriously and I'm not in the mood for your "who gives a shit what you think" routine.
If that was the case I wouldn't even bother to post up that news. I thought it was something serious and worth posting here. I may act like an asshole sometimes, but that only for show. If you know me (and I would assume you would), I can at time very helpful and thoughtful guy.


If you want a real answer:

I know violence doesn't come from politics. But who it's directed at certainly is affected by the messages a nation gets. Especially when they're coming from conservative politicians and cultural figures who proudly exclaim they think homosexuality is a sin, a psychological and physical abnormality, a social disease, and punishable by humiliation and death. These factors are just as responsible for directing a person's hatred toward gays as the attitudes they get from family and friends.

I was talking about what makes people do things like that. You'd have to be at least misguided to think incidents like this have nothing to do with institutionalized messages of hate.[/quote]No way are you wrong. You're point is very much true. I'm merely pointing, as I said above, that conservative and/or republicans aren't the only people to do so. That post(and many of your other previous posts) gave me impression that only those two are causing factor.
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Post by Lazario »

Super Aurora wrote:that post before gave me the impression that only conservative and republicans are anti-gay. Gave off the impression that you were making a generalization without looking the other side.
Well, think about it like this: if the Conservatives are painting the Democrats as Socialists when that's the last thing they are... why would they share Homophobia too? The people who are taking in all the political hatred don't see it coming from the Left. And the Right are only too happy to put it on their face, their Posters, their Profiles. They don't mind owning it as a group. Look at the people who are famous for speaking 'on behalf of' them, on Fox News, all over TV and the media. That's what I was talking about. Just being realistic for the reality that we are forced to look at. You may have a point if what you're really leading me to is: the Left not caring is what lets us down, because they could be stronger and fight harder for us...

Super Aurora wrote:If that was the case I wouldn't even bother to post up that news. I thought it was something serious and worth posting here. I may act like an asshole sometimes, but that only for show. If you know me (and I would assume you would), I can at time very helpful and thoughtful guy.
Okay then, I take back what I said about you in that last reply.

I'm bad at reading people usually.

Super Aurora wrote:No way are you wrong. You're point is very much true. I'm merely pointing, as I said above, that conservative and/or republicans aren't the only people to do so. That post(and many of your other previous posts) gave me impression that only those two are causing factor.
Yeah- I just blame the drivers.
The front-seat ones.
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The Gay Thread

Post by Disney Duster »

Lazario, conservatism and religion are supposed to be for good and can be good. Have they been used for evil? Yes, yes they have, but don't blame all humans for something some humans do. Conservatism in itself is about keeping things that worked and were good before...aren't they? But oppressing homosexuality never worked before, it still happened!

Just...you wouldn't want people to think of all homosexuals as one way. There are lots of things some gay people do that other people could use to say all gays are bad. So don't do it to others.

Goliath, well, if I really hurt you, I'm sorry, but...I'm still going to ask questions when you say things that goad them.
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Re: The Gay Thread

Post by Lazario »

Disney Duster wrote:Lazario, conservatism and religion are supposed to be for good and can be good. Have they been used for evil? Yes, yes they have, but don't blame all humans for something some humans do. Conservatism in itself is about keeping things that worked and were good before...aren't they? But oppressing homosexuality never worked before, it still happened!

Just...you wouldn't want people to think of all homosexuals as one way. There are lots of things some gay people do that other people could use to say all gays are bad. So don't do it to others.
There's nothing in my posts here that would lead anyone to believe I supported seeing all gay people as one-way.

Now, conservatives? Sure. I'm obviously making it look like I see them all one way. But again, like I told you before about religious people, you don't see Good Conservatives coming out in packs in the media to take-down the Bad Conservatives. Do you? Because if you do and they have, then I just missed the grand event that makes your reply spot-on and not just an oversimplified idea of reality.
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Post by Goliath »

Lazario wrote:Where in that lies this contradiction?
Are my jokes so bad that you don't even pick up on them? :(
Disney Duster wrote:Lazario, conservatism and religion are supposed to be for good and can be good.
The only way I think conservatism is good, is when you're talking about 'conserving' the environment --which is not something conservatives are doing these days. The days of Teddy Roosevelt are long gone.
Disney Duster wrote:Goliath, well, if I really hurt you, I'm sorry, but...I'm still going to ask questions when you say things that goad them.
But I wasn't... Just like Wonderlicious was not saying anything offensive to 'goad' you calling him a mysogynist. You're too judgemental.








On-topic: good news on the gay front:


Judge orders 'don't ask, don't tell' injunction

SAN DIEGO – A federal judge issued a worldwide injunction Tuesday immediately stopping enforcement of the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy, suspending the 17-year-old ban on openly gay U.S. troops.

U.S. District Judge Virginia Phillips' landmark ruling also ordered the government to suspend and discontinue all pending discharge proceedings and investigations under the policy. U.S. Department of Justice attorneys have 60 days to appeal. Pentagon and Department of Justice officials said they are reviewing the case and had no immediate comment.

The injunction goes into effect immediately, said Dan Woods, the attorney who represented the Log Cabin Republicans, the gay rights group that filed the lawsuit in 2004 to stop the ban's enforcement. "Don't ask, don't tell, as of today at least, is done, and the government is going to have to do something now to resurrect it," Woods said. "This is an extremely significant, historic decision. Once and for all, this failed policy is stopped. Fortunately now we hope all Americans who wish to serve their country can."

Legal experts say the Obama administration is under no legal obligation to appeal and could let Phillips' ruling stand. Phillips' decision was widely cheered by gay rights organizations that credited her with getting accomplished what President Obama and Washington politics could not.

"This order from Judge Phillips is another historic and courageous step in the right direction, a step that Congress has been noticeably slow in taking," said Alexander Nicholson, executive director of Servicemembers United, the nation's largest organization of gay and lesbian troops and veterans. He was the sole named veteran plaintiff in the case along with the Log Cabin Republicans, a gay rights organization that filed the lawsuit in 2004 to stop the ban's enforcement.

Gay rights groups warned gay troops not to make their sexual orientation public just yet. Aaron Tax, the legal director for the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, said he expects the Justice Department to appeal. If that happens, the case would be brought to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit, where the decision could be reversed. "Service members must proceed safely and should not come out at this time," Tax said in a statement.

Supporters of the ban said Phillips overstepped her bounds. "The judge ignored the evidence to impose her ill-informed and biased opinion on our military, endangering morale, health and security of our military at a time of war," said Wendy Wright, president of Concerned Women for America, a women's group on public policy. "She did not do what Congress did when it passed the law and investigate the far-reaching effects of how this will detrimentally impact the men and women who risk their lives to defend us."

The case put the Obama administration in the awkward position of defending a policy it wants Congress to repeal.



---
Unfortunately, Bush-leftover and Iran-Contra war criminal Secretary Gates had this to say:

Gates warns over abrupt halt to 'Don't ask, don't tell'

US Defence Secretary Robert Gates has warned a court-ordered halt of a ban on openly gay military personnel could have "enormous consequences". A day after a judge halted the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy, Mr Gates said he preferred that Congress, not a court, settle the issue. Under the policy, gay people can serve in the military but face expulsion if their sexuality is revealed.

"I feel strongly this is an action that needs to be taken by the Congress and that it is an action that requires careful preparation, and a lot of training," Mr Gates said. "It has enormous consequences for our troops." Mr Gates' comments aboard a military aircraft came a day after US District Judge Virginia Phillips, in California, issued a permanent injunction forbidding the US military from enforcing the 17-year-old ban.

At the White House on Wednesday, spokesman Robert Gibbs described "don't ask, don't tell" as "a policy that is going to end". But he declined to answer whether the Obama administration preferred to seek a stay of the injunction and appeal against the ruling. [...]

President Barack Obama has said repeatedly he favours scrapping the ban, and Mr Gibbs reiterated the administration would prefer it be done in Congress rather than the court system.

----
Yeah, as if Congress ever does something worthwhile! :roll:
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Post by Disney's Divinity »

Goliath wrote:The only way I think conservatism is good, is when you're talking about 'conserving' the environment --which is not something conservatives are doing these days. The days of Teddy Roosevelt are long gone.
These days "conservative" = "the opposite of whatever the liberals think." That's why bipartisanship is impossible.

And, of course, the comments on that article. :roll: Lovely.
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Post by Super Aurora »

Don't ask, don't tell policy is fucking lame to begin with.

What? Are straight males in the army more afraid of a surprise dick getting up their ass than a bullet through their face?
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Post by Lazario »

Actually, I think it might be more like the old:

They're afraid that "allowing" gays to serve in the military - and not trying to out, humiliate, and eject them - will make it look to others as though they "support" homosexuality. We're still living in a time when all these public figures feel they have to announce what they think about every controversial issue. Usually just for the press.

Goliath wrote:
Lazario wrote:Where in that lies this contradiction?
Are my jokes so bad that you don't even pick up on them? :(
Sometimes subtlety is lost on me.
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Post by Flanger-Hanger »

"Joel Burns tells gay teens 'it gets better'":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax96cghO ... r_embedded
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Post by zackisthewalrus »

Flanger-Hanger wrote:"Joel Burns tells gay teens 'it gets better'":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax96cghO ... r_embedded
This is right next to my hometown. This is so great to hear from someone so close when it feels like I'm surrounded by people who don't even give a damn...
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Post by Goliath »

Lazario wrote:Actually, I think it might be more like the old:

They're afraid that "allowing" gays to serve in the military - and not trying to out, humiliate, and eject them - will make it look to others as though they "support" homosexuality.
What's funny is that the US army has no problem with fighting alongside allies who *do* allow gays in the military, like the UK and The Netherlands. I don't believe our military functions less well because of it.
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