The Princess and the Frog Discussion - Part III

[ajmrowland]

I may en d up going it alone on this one.

[kenai3000]

I saw it today, and I must say Disney is officially back.

The Princess And The Frog is a great comeback from the duds that were released in this decade. The voices matched the characters perfect except Charlotte's I don't know her voice just seems so wrong in a New Orleans setting though I don't know I've never been there. I believe that Anika Noni Rose was perfect for Tiana, she has an amazing voice, and really matches Tiana's personality. Randy Newman has once again provided a great soundtrack, all of the songs were catchy and I think will be considered classics like the songs from the old movies were . Dr. Fascilier was a great villain he reminded me of Jafar, and his song Friends On The Other Side was another great villain song along the likes of Poor Unfortunate Souls, Be Prepared & Mine, Mine, Mine. Surprisingly The end song Never Knew I Needed was actually good, even though I normally can't stand Ne-Yo's music it actually fit the mood of the movie. The story had a whole bunch of twists and turns, and over all an enjoyable experience.

So my overall score is a perfect 10/10

[Margos]

My brother and I are going.... it starts in less than half an hour, but we're only a couple minutes away from the theater. I'm so excited!

[buffalobill]

I HATE one thing about TP&TF!!! Now that I've seen how awesome it is I have to wait until its blu ray/dvd combo pack release. Put it out now!!!!!!!!

[estefan]

I just got back from seeing it. He's my full, spoiler-free review I posted on another forum:

The past number of years have been decidedly drab at Walt Disney Animation Studios, with their films being a pale imitation of their former glory and their animation desks being thrown away to make way for computers. With The Princess and the Frog, directors/co-writers Ron Clements and John Musker and executive producer John Lasseter have now only brought back hand-drawn animation, they have also created a film that deserves to sit alongside Pinocchio, The Lion King and other renowned classics. Everything about this modern Louisiana fairy tale is set to perfection, from the characters to the story to the music to, of course, the animation. Disney's first African-American heroine, Tiana, is a hard-working character who is completely different from Snow White and Cinderella, but I am not talking about skin colour. She's a strongly-defined character who wants to work hard to achieve the restaurant she wants and you really see her determination, even when transformed into a frog. However, the changes she experiences throughout the film feel natural and help show the complexity of Tiana. It helps that Anika Noni Rose brings a lot of life and passion into the role and gives a performance that aids Tiana in being the strongest princess in the Disney canon, mainly because she has the least princess-like traits. She's a human being like you and I, even when she's hopping down the bayou.

Prince Naveen also tip-toes past the usual Disney prince representation, showing a more fleshed-out version of what Prince Charming was probably like. He's a lazy, yet charming character who provides a lot of the laughs in the film and his relationship grows in a way that works very well. Bruno Campos particularly brings a lot of zest to Naveen, evoking images of Pepe Le Pew and Jose Carioca. Through the way that Tiana and Naveen's relationship grows, we see one of the film's primary themes that it's under the skin that's important rather than if they're amphibious, black or Maldonian. Another character who surprisingly brings plenty of heart to the film is Ray the Cajun firefly, a bug who is love-struck with the Evening Star that makes countless appearances throughout the course of The Princess and the Frog and like Ray, we believe she is a real character, helping the characters on their quest. Jim Cummings, a veteran voice actor who has played a wide variety of roles in his extensive career including Winnie the Pooh and Darkwing Duck, gives quite possibly his best work to date with Ray, imbuing him with the right amount of humour and sentiment, perfect for this sort of film. Ray is not simply an excellent character filled with passion and life, he also commands the most emotional moment in the whole film.

The other characters who round up the ensemble are also excellent in every way. Louis the Alligator provides the screenplay's funniest moments, but he's also a sweet character as well. Tiana's best friend, the Southern beau Charlotte also provides a lot of the film's biggest laughs and though the character appears in the film for less than ten minutes, Mama Odie (as drawn by my favourite Disney animator, Andreas Deja) makes a massive impact, even singing the film's big show-stopping musical number. And of course, Keith David brings so much cool to the villain Dr Facilier, whose evil plan definitely ranks up there with the best Disney villains like Scar and Ursula. Yet, Facilier also has his own big fears as well which adds to the complexity of this villain.

Of course, since this is a return to hand-drawn animated musicals, both the songs and animation need to be mentioned and boy, are they some of Disney's best. The background art is so spacious and beautiful to look at, showing how much care was taken to paint a portrait of New Orlean and its bayou. One scene featuring a whole bunch of fireflies lighting the swamp is especially lovely to watch on the big screen. The character animation is also terrific, with Disney bringing back a lot of their veteran animators, with Deja, Eric Goldberg (drawing Louis), Bruce Smith (Facilier), Mark Henn (Tiana), Randy Cartwright (Tiana and Naveen as frogs) and Michael Surrey (Ray) providing some of their best work yet. Randy Newman brings the right New Orleans sound to the songs, with Mama Odie's gospel number "Dig a Little Deeper", the incredibly catchy "When We're Human" and the Dr John-sung "Down in New Orleans" being the best of a wonderful bunch that ranks up there with the music of Alan Menken, Frank Churchill and the Sherman Brothers.

The Princess and the Frog is filled with so much life and while it's so wonderful that Clements, Musker, Lasseter and crew have brought back this beautiful art-form, they have also attached a terrific and timeless story to boot that slips nicely beside the best in the Studio's canon. They have taken the fairy tale genre, paying homage to it, while at the same time completely re-inventing it into something that people of every generation will enjoy and cherish forever. The moment the opening shot begins, it's like welcoming back an old friend who hasn't been seen in a long time and boy, is it incredibly nice to see it back. Welcome back, hand-drawn animation. And welcome back, Disney. I really, really missed you.

[David S.]

Great review!

[DARTH KNITE]

I would love to see just one review that doesn't mention their races. Just one critic who is actually progressively minded enough to realize it has nothing to do with the movie, and that if you want true development, you'll won't feel a need to mention it at all. This is not aimed at the prior review posted, just a comment to the thread as a whole.

[Flanger-Hanger]

I saw it this afternoon and certainly had a good time but I have some points:

-Am I the only on who thought the whole story felt rushed? Other than some briefs moments in the beginning the plot didn't seem to have the quiet moments or breathing room of older Disney animated features and felt shorter because of it. Everything zipped by and I felt I couldn't absorb everything, even the background art for example that I wanted too. I like fast paced cartoons like The Emperor's New Groove, but this one really felt rushed as I said earlier.

-I felt indifferent to Ray and Louis.

-I disliked how much the humour is almost based entirely on slapstick, no really great written jokes IMO and the clowning around got old fast as it happened all the time.

But What was good:

- I loved the bold graphic look of "Almost There" I didn't see it coming. It could have easily ended looking like it was done in flash but the texture of the animation made it really look like moving poster art on a canvas.

-I loved Charlotte, is it wrong for me to have the white girl be my favorite character in the first princess movie to feature an African-American lead?

-The background art was the best thing about how the film looked.

-The songs worked better with the animation than on their own.

-Tiana is a very appealing Princess. Mainly because she's imperfect and not just the world's greatest female role model as everyone gushing about her would lead you to believe.

[Brer Brandon]

Great movie! From the moment, I saw that one shot of Louis in the trailers, I thought I love that fat alligator playing the trumpet and he did not disappoint. Neither did the movie. Loved the songs, the characters, the animation, and the story.

[jpanimation]

I'll keep it short. It was good, but not great. The best thing from Disney Feature Animation in seven years or since Lilo and Stitch (it's probably more akin to Brother Bear but I'll wait for this one to soak in).

I really didn't expect much going in but enjoyed it for the most part. I agree with Flanger-Hanger as far as the films pacing goes. It felt really rushed, with one song leading to the next plot point, and not a single point to breath. As far as the race issue, its not an issue. Just like with Mulan or Aladdin, you don't care about the race or even think about it at all. It all comes down to how interesting the characters are and they were very interesting. Their wants and desires are interchangeable between race, so anyone can empathize, and no one should give a second though to ethnicity.

All characters were good except Ray and Louis (two annoying underdeveloped characters that are really one-demential). You shouldn't be able to sum a character up in so little words, a crocodile that wants to play jazz and a firefly that likes to help, there should be more to them then that. Louis was a little over-done, as far as being animated all bouncy, and at times felt like he was from a different movie. Keith David as Doctor Facilier was great. The animation on this guy was fantastic (great dancing) and he's now one of my favorite villains. I only wished they explained who he was (a little backstory maybe) and what his motives were, as he seemed a little underdeveloped for such a fascinating character (all we know is he owes the shadow people and likes money, that it, nothing on how he got where he is). Charlotte is funny, full of energy, and shares the #1 spot with Facilier as best animated. Mama Odie was interesting, lots of animated flab, and has the honor of having the only musical number I could get into (Facilier's was a great sequence with bad music).

This brings me to the films greatest downfall, the music. I quizzed the people I went with on the way out to name one of the songs in the movie and they couldn't. Randy Newman screwed up and created a bunch of mediocre Randy Newman songs. He should've been left scoring the picture and not writing the songs (at least with Cats Don't Dance, he wrote some memorable work, that didn't all sound so similar). All the songs were decent but the one's Ray sang were down right terrible. Oh yeah, that Ne-Yo guy is terrible, certainly no Peabo Bryson. It just seems all the Disney animated musicals, from Walt era to Disney Renaissance had at least one song I could remember but this one doesn't.

It was a good movie but I was just hoping for a little more (no where near the early Disney Renaissance films). Either way, it was good enough for me to buy when it comes out.

Spoiler
I thought Ray getting crushed was a great way for him to go but they ruined it when they showed him still alive giving his final fair-wells. He was crushed, yet his body wasn't, they should've left it end when it did and not show him. It just ruined then power of that crush sound had and made Facilier less threatening

[toonaspie]

Just got back from the movie.

My favorite character is Juju.

I think it's way too soon to call this a comeback or a Renaissance given it's the first 2D film in over five years.

I'm not saying it's a bad film.

The Princess and the Frog was a great awesome film.

But from the reviews I've read. It's seems like the critics are expecting this to be like a fab four film. That's setting the bar too high. People have got to accept the fact that this film cannot guarantee a comeback nor can it be really considered a comeback. The Princess and the Frog should be considered a first in a new generation of Disney Animated Features. There's a lot of liberties this film takes from the way fairy tales have been told in the past and it worked really well. Why cant the critics let Disney break out of box once in a while?

I'd also like to make a comment regarding the whole race issue that many of these critics never seem to notice:

Did Disney EVER ONCE in their promotions of TPaTF pushed "first Black princess" in the audience's faces? The answer shocking enough is NO! It was the newsmedia that was pushing this on people NOT the tv promos or film previews. I feel bad that this film had to be such a victim of scrutiny from what the newspapers have been reporting behind the scenes. The critics are judging this film less on the actual promotion and more on what the newspapers have been telling them. It's really sad. The kids who were in theater with me (despite how obnoxious they were) would've made better film critics. At least they were nonpartial to all the stuff going on behind the scenes. And most of the people who live in my town are white and asian and there were a lot of kids in the theater with me who weren't questioning what kind of Princess Tiana was. They were just there to see a Disney cartoon again.

And people need to accept facts that Disney will sometimes have stereotypes. It's called keeping in tune with the kind of story you're trying to tell, which this film did REALLY well.

[tsom]

Oh My God!!!!!!

I just came from seeing it. This was my first time seeing a Disney animated movie in theaters, and it was GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I went with two friends and they also loved it! I'm definitely taking my little cousin to see it sometime during her Winter Break (and just an excuse for me to see it again).

The theater LOVED it. I liked it was a musical. I'm surprised at how many songs were there. I also liked how Tiana's childhood was shown. I saw this little girl dancing during "Dig a Little Deeper" and I heard this other girl say "I want one too" when Young Charlotte said she wanted another princess dress. When the movie ended, everyone in the theater clapped. It was awesome! I left the theater humming/singing "Almost There" all the way back to my place.

I was surprised it got a G rating though. If this got a G, then why did Enchanted get PG?

Disney is definitely back! I will be seeing Rapunzel next year for sure! Oh, one thing I didn't like was:

They didn't show Maledonia!!! I wanted to see it! My guess is Tiana and Naveen must have bought a mansion, where Eudora also lived with them. They ended up opening the restaurant and living in New Orleans. My question is: Once Naveen's father dies, who will rule? Naveen could pass his rights to his little brother, but still, what do you guys think?

Oh, one more funny thing:

My friends and I were looking for stars in the sky to wish on, and when we found one lone shinning star, we were all saying "Please, please, please". It was amazing!

[The Little Merboy]

It was amazing! I hope, this film, does what The Little Mermaid did 20 years ago!! Starting an entire new renaissance, this film, can sit proudly. On the Disney classic film shelves. Loved it!!

[kenai3000]

Here is a special version of Never Knew I Needed made for the German version. It is a duet between Ne-Yo & Cassandra Steen (Tiana's German voice).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51phaM062ww

[magicalwands]

To sum it up: I really, really enjoyed The Princess and the Frog!

I don't think we had to worry about it not living up to the films in the 90's at all! The film was so different, you cannot compare it to them. John Lasseter is right: Watching this film is like finding a pair of comfortable shoes you bought way back when, but just found them again, deep inside your closet. Then you put them on again, and it feels so good. To those who have not watched it yet, I am so envious of you.

For some reason, when Tiana gets pushed over and got food all over herself, I half expected Charlotte to criticize her ruining her party. But, I loved her so much for taking care of her! Then at the end, I was afraid Charlotte would hate Tiana for taking the prince, but she kissed Naveen over and over to help Tiana. It's so great how they made Charlotte spoiled, but not a brat.

I found it odd they let Dr. Facilier, such a shady character, to walk around their town like that!

[ajmrowland]

I cant go until monday. I was sooooo looking forward to seeing this film, and it took me about 4 hours to really get over the disappointment.

[Kyle]

Just got back from it. I enjoyed it, but I'm glad I didn't raise my expectations too high.

Didnt care for the opening scene much, but then it got good. I found the hyper spoiled brat a lot more likable than I expected. I didnt like much of the swamp scenes that happened at night. the hillbillys were awful. and the prince's personality seemed to change too much once he became a frog, and some of the songs seemed too out of place. the most enjoyable characters to watch were easily the alligator (Louis) and Dr facilier. also really enjoyed the almost there sequence where the animation style changes.

as fpr the slap stick, the only the stuff from the hillbillys bothered me. they just werent done well at all. you cant just poke characters in the eyes and whatnot and expect to get a laugh out of me. I love funny animation for animation's sake, unlike a lot of people on this forum, but those didnt work well enough. they should have found a way to cut them altogether frankly. I agree much of the movie felt rushed. I think they need to go back to releasing movies only when their done, not to meet a deadline. if it needs to cook longer, let it.

[Margos]

All I can say was.... wow. TPatF was simply stunning. Fun and interesting characters, nice songs, pretty artwork and design (for the most part), good writing.... but story is king, and I think TPatF really, really sold it. Yes, some parts did go by rather quick. But I think it worked. They took plot points that could very easily have become confusing or convoluted, and they always seemed to fit in with perfect sense. I can't even say what my favorite parts or characters were, because it was all so wonderful. If I could see it again, I could be a better judge. But here were my biggest surprises:

Charlotte - She wasn't bitchy, or bratty. She was a little self-centered in the beginning, but she really was a true friend, and such a funny character. But what a cougar! LOL!

Ray - I thought he seemed stupid and kind of childish, but he really was a very emotionally-based character. His love for Evangeline made me a little weepy, especially when Tiana tells him the truth about Evangeline, and he refuses to believe her. His death was a lot sadder than I thought, and while it did strike me as odd that he lingered as long as he did, his abdomen did look slightly flattened, which was too subtle to be misconstrued as humorous, but obvious enough to give a sense of "wrongness" to his appearance. Maybe I was just sort of imagining that, but I could have sworn it looked that way to me....

Well.... The whole movie impressed me, really, and I wasn't the only one! My little brother said to me, as soon as the credits started, "That was the best movie I ever saw!" While I don't really share that view with him, I certainly do agree that it was a fantastic film, and an excellent kick-off to our next Disney Era!

[Disney's Divinity]

Well, I finally saw The Princess and the Frog several hours ago, and now that it’s had some time to digest I wanted to give my thoughts. Overall, I thought it was a good film. A little weak, but pretty good. I agree with earlier comments that this seems like something that could've been released in the late '90s/early '00s.

***SPOILERS***

When my mother was watching the Dreams Come True special, she said she thought Tiana looked like a black Belle. Now that I’ve seen the whole film, I agree. She has those same dimples, cheeks and face shape. The hair’s a little curlier in the banes, but she reminds me remarkably of Belle.

Appearance aside though, I loved Tiana. She was adorably sweet, much more than I expected. I have to admit I cried several times whenever her father was brought up (though I might have been extra-emotional at seeing a Disney movie in theaters for the first time since Tarzan). And I enjoyed how it showed her as a really hard worker. Her face-off with Facilier was definitely a highlight.

Moving on to Naveen, I really didn’t like him much until the last 20 minutes. *I did try to like him and kept my mind open when the movie started.* He actually looked a lot like Eric to me, except with slimmer/narrower features. And his eyes really stood out for some reason (but, then, Eric’s blue eyes always stood out to me, too). Honestly, I was surprised how much the movie showed him as a “philanderer”—this was the main reason I didn’t like him. And I was rather surprised Disney allowed him to be so overtly sexual, considering all the criticisms they’ve had in the past (most of which were overblown, of course).

I liked that Naveen grew rather organically, but the “will you marry me” part came rather suddenly. I don’t know, it seemed like they were trying to be so serious/realistic the rest of the time that it threw me off. I also enjoyed the fact that neither Tiana or Naveen was right/wrong. Usually, the prude is completely wrong and has to let her hair down, but Tiana is pretty vindicated here. Just that she shouldn’t be that way all the time.

Now, Facilier. I really thought he was a great villain, the only problem being he wasn’t there enough. When he transforms Naveen, that whole scene transitions rather badly, where one minute you don’t know who the characters are and next minute Facilier's singing. If I had to compare him to past villains, it would be a mix of Ursula and Jafar. There were several scenes where Facilier moves “cartoonily” like Jafar (whose whole design was comical), with the creepy, deal-maker edge that Ursula had. And there was a part near the beginning when he’s looking at Naveen that reminded me a lot of Tremaine (the way it showed his mind calculating). Keith David does a really good job here. I especially thought the shadows were creepy as all hell in this movie.

*I apologize if it seems like a lot of “and this reminds me of,” but I tend to do that a lot.*

I agree with everyone else that the music was good within the film, but not something I’d especially care to hear outside of it. I think “Almost There” and “Dig A Little Deeper” were the only exceptions. “When I’m Human” was better than I expected (it only got good around the time Tiana started singing), and I enjoyed Ray’s song in the swamp. “Friends On The Other Side” was disappointing, not because it isn’t a good song, just because it was poorly handled in the movie. And I agree with kenai3000 that I was surprised "Never Knew I Needed" was pretty good (though I definitely wouldn't put "Friends on the Other Side" on the same level as "Poor Unfortunate Souls").

The only bad things that stood out to me were:

- Sidekicks are again a problem. I kept wondering why Louis was in this movie. He really isn’t funny and he doesn’t offer anything. Ray was more entertaining (and relevant) than I expected, but I think he could’ve been better if the Louis character wasn’t propped on him. I liked how it showed his family, actually. As for his death, I actually wasn’t emotionally affected by it. I agree with jpanimation that it would've been better if it didn't show him again. But it was nice when his family looked up at his star next to Evangeline.

- The segment in the middle of the movie with the hillbillies felt entirely pointless. I suppose it was there to have Naveen save Tiana, but it just felt unneeded to me and it wasn’t very funny. I wouldn't compare this to The Rescuers though, because I actually found the hillbilly scenes in Rescuers to be entertaining.

- As I mentioned before, the part where Naveen and Facilier come in at the beginning felt rushed. It just seemed like there should’ve been more dialogue between Naveen appearing onscreen and then being transformed. It was poorly done, imo.

- The Butler storyline felt a little unresolved to me. Yeah, we know he went to jail, but it seemed as if the movie had no sympathy for him (as I did). I was hoping that Naveen would talk to him and/or forgive him in some way—not for what he did, but for why he was motivated to do it.

- Facilier’s destruction through the necklace seemed like a recycling of the same idea in TLM musical. Also, the fact that Mama Odie is also a “voodoo queen” goes unquestioned—and I’m left wondering how she can be good when she’s endowed with the same powers (apparently from the same source) as Facilier?

Good points:

- Again, the shadows were awesome in their creepiness. The climax was especially striking. I liked Facilier’s temptation for Tiana, and it was dramatic how she stood up to him for her father. And I found the way Facilier was dragged away by the shadows to be a bit horrifying. I actually felt sorry for him in a way (and it seemed sort of like a metaphor for gang debts to me).

- The “Almost There” sequence was great. And I’m glad they gave Tiana’s mother as strong a role as her father, unlike the mothers who fade into the background in other modern Disney films. Oprah did a great job here, because you almost couldn't tell it was her unless you knew so.

- The female friendship between Tiana and Charlotte was great. Disney girls rarely, if ever, have girl friends. It’s just nice to see them creating more female camaraderie instead of having the only women pitted against one another. I agree with magicalwands that there were several points in the film where I thought Charlotte was going to be mad at Tiana, but then she was so nice. She was such a good friend to Tiana.

- Charlotte, Father La Bouf and Mama Odie were great and hilarious. I liked the animation of Charlotte and her father. (On a side note, Louis' animation reminded me of the Cyclops in Hercules)

- The ending, where they turn back into humans because Tiana’s become a princess. Their green outfits looked better than I expected and the animation in that moment was fantastic.

Also, did anyone think butlerNaveen's clothes looked a lot like Prince Charming from Cinderella on the float? I'm guessing that was intentional.

So, I definitely liked the movie. Not their strongest film and it hasn’t graced my top 15 or so, but it’s worth watching. I would put it on the same level as Lilo & Stitch or Alice In Wonderland, without ever becoming something as great as Cinderella or 101 Dalmatians.

I would give it about a 6 or 7 out of 10 (which I think is the general consensus with most reviews). I tried not to have huge expectations, considering I've loved most of Musker and Clements other films (Mermaid, Hercules and Treasure Planet). Ultimately, I think this one will have to grow on me, but I definitely have no problem in saying this will end up being a classic for Disney.

[Miss Jo]

-Am I the only on who thought the whole story felt rushed? Other than some briefs moments in the beginning the plot didn't seem to have the quiet moments or breathing room of older Disney animated features and felt shorter because of it. Everything zipped by and I felt I couldn't absorb everything, even the background art for example that I wanted too. I like fast paced cartoons like The Emperor's New Groove, but this one really felt rushed as I said earlier.

I completely agree with you there, Flanger-Hanger. I absolutely loved the film, it was fantabulous, but it definitely felt rushed. I felt that it needed to slow down, and not just because I wanted it to last longer (which I did)!