The Princess and the Frog Discussion - Part II

[singerguy04]

Well, that means that black Princesses are not exclusive to Disney movies

Well yea, in Africa and other places there have been many!

But thanks tsom. A black princess reigning in Europe. See, that proves that a black princess in the original setting of the German "Frog Prince" really could have happened. Oh, Disney...please just change this whole film to "The Frog Prince", set in royal Germany with Tiana and Naveen as the same characters, but with German upbringing...

Kubrick, they have a new Mickey logo for animated movies? That doesn't really fit, I mean Mickey's not in any Disney animated movie at all, but plenty of castles have been. It should still be a castle...

Kubrick was referring to the new animation studios logo that features Mickey as Steamboat Willie that came out with Meet the Robinsons. The studio logo would also play with the new CGI castle opening. I also doubt that Disney wouldn't play the new one. I think that in the trailer it's just a flat image of the new castle blazing on the paper... in other words it's just a special image for the trailer.

Also, the black princess in Europe was just recently crowned. In 2000 to be exact. Placing this film with a Black princess in Germany hundreds of years ago would be extremely out of place, and would make a 100 times less sense than having it in New Orleans in the 20's. I honestly have no clue what your problem is with this film being set how it is. Especially when you're willing to go completely out of the realm of reality to suggest it be set in a elder german setting.

This is all ridiculous considering that it's a fairy tale to begin with so what does it matter if it's set in New Orleans or not. It wouldn't make sense in any time setting, group or people, or location because none of it would ever or will ever actually happen.

[Disney Duster]

Darn I really hope they use an animated castle logo for their animated films anyway. As I said, Mickey was never in an animated film, but many castles were.

As for the idea of a black girl being adopted or marrying into a German royal family long ago, yes, that is a huge stretch of the imagination.

Imagination. It's a fantasy film. It's a fairy tale.

But the whole reason, if you must know, why I want it to be in Germany and more traditional, should be obvious, but I'll explain...

The original fairy tale was German. Disney has always set their fairy tale films in the settings of the original tales' author's countries. Snow White was intended to be in Germany, Cinderella in France, and Sleeping Beauty in either France or Germany but they gave credit to the French version. I cannot get into an argument about why they are obviously supposed to be in either these countries or in made up countries like them, but there is lots of evidence including architecture and names and language.

They kept this up until Aladdin when they moved the setting from China to the Middle East. That was more a more comedic take on the fairy tale, like the Princess and the Frog will be. But it was still set a long time ago, and makes it possible for the person who wrote Aladdin and His Wonderful Lamp to have heard the story from the Middle East and changed it to China.

But the Princess and the Frog is going even further, setting it after the time the Frog Prince could have taken place, making it impossible to be the story of The Frog Prince (the Princess and the Frog is actually an alternate title of the Frog Prince, some people know the story by that name). Having a storybook of the original tale within the film proves this is not the original tale.

I'm just saying it's not the fairy tale, and I want it to be the fairy tale. With all the previous fairy tale films, no matter how changed from the original sources, you could say that they could have been how the original events happened, they were just written differently in storybooks. With this film, it couldn't really be the original events of the Frog Prince, and it's really not that tale.

Having a black girl adopted by a German family in a made up German-like country of very accepting population and meeting a frog prince, or a black girl becoming a German princess by marrying a German prince turned frog, would be a big stretch of the imagination, but that's a good thing, and what they're trying to do anyway.

It would still be like Disney's past fairy tales, keeping tradition, but also breaking lots of new ground by their black heroine in Europe.

[KubrickFan]

Darn I really hope they use an animated castle logo for their animated films anyway. As I said, Mickey was never in an animated film, but many castles were.

It's about the first iconic character Disney had, and that's Mickey. The standard castle logo used for every Walt Disney Studios movie is still used, but after that one you get the Walt Disney Animation Studios logo, which is Mickey in Steamboat Willie. Kind of like how Luxo is in Pixar's logo. Makes sense to me, anyway.

[nomad2010]

so i was just sitting around the other day when i realized that disney didn't use their new cgi castle logo. they used their old logo which was shown before all the fab 4 movies when they were in theaters. i think that was a really smart move on disney's part.

Didn't use their logo on what, exactly? Disney has their new Mickey logo when animation is concerned, so I doubt it that they would just use their old logo again.

sorry.. i meant to say in the trailer. they didn't use the cgi one. they used the old animation logo.

[Chernabog_Rocks]

I'm just saying it's not the fairy tale, and I want it to be the fairy tale. With all the previous fairy tale films, no matter how changed from the original sources, you could say that they could have been how the original events happened, they were just written differently in storybooks. With this film, it couldn't really be the original events of the Frog Prince, and it's really not that tale.

I doubt Disney's going to go and change everything just because you want it a certain way

[katemonster]

Is anyone heading out to San Diego for Comic-Con? I wish I could go! I read about the Animation panel and I can't wait to see what they have to say about the movie.

"ANIMATION PANEL — Animation legends Hayao Miyazaki and John Lasseter join veteran animation directors Lee Unkrich, Kirk Wise, Ron Clements and John Musker on Fri., July 24 at 12:45 p.m. for an animation panel which will highlight upcoming animated films, including Disney•Pixar’s TOY STORY/TOY STORY 2 double feature, Disney•Pixar’s TOY STORY 3, Walt Disney Animation Studios’ BEAUTY AND THE BEAST, Walt Disney Animation Studios’ half-hour holiday TV special PREP & LANDING, Walt Disney Animation Studios’ THE PRINCESS AND THE FROG and Miyazaki’s PONYO. John Lasseter will host the panel and Patton Oswalt will moderate a group Q&A following the presentation, which will include filmmaker insights, trailers and select film sequences. "

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=56995

[pap64]

I just realized something. What Disney Duster is saying about adapting the REAL story of The Frog Prince is a possibility. Not right now of course, but The Princess and the Frog is so different from the original source that a direct adaption can be a reality. It wouldn't be the first time Disney adapts the same story.

Disney did two versions of Chicken Little. The first was an old Silly Symphony that was really a WWII propaganda film that used the story of Chicken Little as a message of keeping your cool during war times. The second was a highly comedic CG film that was a bit of a sequel to the events of the original story.

So a more traditional Frog Prince is possible.

[The Little Merboy]

My little brother's best friend Jack, works at one of the local movie theaters. And I asked him month's ago, when they got the "teaser" poster in. If I could get it, well, I guess there is no teaser, just a regular. But, he got me a brand new one this past week. Rolled up in a poster tube, I want to get it framed

[Siren]

I look at this as much like Emperor's New Groove. That was originally based on the Emperor's New Clothing....Disney took a LOT of artistic license with the story and the adaptation is barely recognizable from the original. Where as Princess and the Frog is more like Enchanted or Splash. They make references to real fairytales, but its modernized. Afterall, within the movie is the book The Frog Prince. So its more like, The Frog Prince was the fairytale, what happens to Prince Naveen is real. He figures in all the fairytales, a kiss breaks the spell.

[drnilescrane]

I look at this as much like Emperor's New Groove. That was originally based on the Emperor's New Clothing....Disney took a LOT of artistic license with the story and the adaptation is barely recognizable from the original. Where as Princess and the Frog is more like Enchanted or Splash. They make references to real fairytales, but its modernized. Afterall, within the movie is the book The Frog Prince. So its more like, The Frog Prince was the fairytale, what happens to Prince Naveen is real. He figures in all the fairytales, a kiss breaks the spell.

Emperor's New Groove has nothing to do with New Clothes bar a witty title - It's a 90% Mark Dindal original with some Roger Allers to hold the story up. Maybe a better comparison might be Chicken Little vs. Chicken Little (another Dindal, but the same drastic artistic licence... OT: But after watching the deleted scenes on the BD CL should have been a girl).

[Disney Duster]

I doubt Disney's going to go and change everything just because you want it a certain way

I was half being silly and half wishing with my heart!

Well pap, that would be nice, but I have to say it seems unlikely. This really bothers me. Disney can do really really knew things, totally knew kinds of films, but if they are going to do a fairy tale, do it right, do it traditionally. It can still be comedic and have a black heroine in a fairy tale setting...

Siren, like niles said, The Emporer's New Groove is really not that story, it is really only in name, and not even. I would not accept that as Disney's version of the tale.

Maybe far, far in the future they will decide to make The Frog Prince and The Emporer's New Clothes as they could have possibly happened before being written down, even if it is fantasy.

Well, thanks for the support everybody.

[Old Fish Tale]

New scene!

[pap64]

Aaw. Young Tiana and Charlotte are adorable! But Charlotte reminds me of Darla Dimple from Cats Don't Dance. She also seems highly hyperactive!

Poor cat .

I just realized...Tiana might be the first Disney Princess (of the "official" lineup) we see as a child. In Disney Princess films we see the princess all grown up. While we do see Aurora as a baby we don't see her face. There was also Ariel's Beginning, but I don't know if its canon.

Though Tiana is actually the second Disney Heroine to be seen as a child. We see Kida when Atlantis is being destroyed and her mother is called to join with the life force.

[Mooky]

Several new clips from the movie - it's all rough/black & white animation and there's no sound, but it's interesting nonetheless.

On a side note, German title of the film is going to be Kiss the Frog (Küss den Frosch).

[Jules]

Something tells me this will be amongst the most beautiful-looking of the contemporary Disney animated features. And that's saying a lot considering it's being made on a controlled, and - for a Disney animated feature - modest budget (definitely no $160 million price tags here ... a la BOLT or Wall-E).

[UmbrellaFish]

I just realized...Tiana might be the first Disney Princess (of the "official" lineup) we see as a child. In Disney Princess films we see the princess all grown up. While we do see Aurora as a baby we don't see her face. There was also Ariel's Beginning, but I don't know if its canon.

Though Tiana is actually the second Disney Heroine to be seen as a child. We see Kida when Atlantis is being destroyed and her mother is called to join with the life force.

We see a juvenile Cinderella in her movie, don't we?

On a side note, German title of the film is going to be Kiss the Frog (Küss den Frosch).

Sha-la-la-la-la-la
Don’t be scared
You got the mood prepared
Go on and kiss the frog
Sha-la-la-la-la-la
Don’t stop now
Don’t try to hide it how
You wanna kiss the frog
Sha-la-la-la-la-la
Float along
Listen to the song
The song say kiss the frog
Sha-la-la-la-la-la
Music play
Do what the music say
You wanna kiss the frog

[drnilescrane]

Something tells me this will be amongst the most beautiful-looking of the contemporary Disney animated features. And that's saying a lot considering it's being made on a controlled, and - for a Disney animated feature - modest budget (definitely no $160 million price tags here ... a la BOLT or Wall-E).

As there is no major technology costs (they seem to get a completely new render farm and workstations for each production) or R&D costs (That painterly CG had to comeout of somethings budget), it's naturally going to be a smaller budget. All they needed This time were some new desks, a couple of Mac Pros/Xserves + highres scanners and a Toom Boom volume licence

[Jules]

As there is no major technology costs (they seem to get a completely new render farm and workstations for each production) or R&D costs (That painterly CG had to comeout of somethings budget), it's naturally going to be a smaller budget.

I must admit I don't quite understand. Why do they get a new render farm for every production (this seems crazy in my mind, leading me to suspect that I may not really know what a render farm is )? And what are R&D costs?

By the way, niles, I seem to recall us having some Disney animation insiders as users here at UD, and in some vague memory I kind of remember you being one of them - only I'm not sure. Maybe you're an animator, or a storyboarder, or a compositor ... or maybe just a regular guy. But I'm almost positive you're involved in animation somehow. Hmmm ...

[drnilescrane]

As there is no major technology costs (they seem to get a completely new render farm and workstations for each production) or R&D costs (That painterly CG had to comeout of somethings budget), it's naturally going to be a smaller budget.

I must admit I don't quite understand. Why do they get a new render farm for every production (this seems crazy in my mind, leading me to suspect that I may not really know what a render farm is )? And what are R&D costs?

By the way, niles, I seem to recall us having some Disney animation insiders as users here at UD, and in some vague memory I kind of remember you being one of them - only I'm not sure. Maybe you're an animator, or a storyboarder, or a compositor ... or maybe just a regular guy. But I'm almost positive you're involved in animation somehow. Hmmm ...

I'm flattered - I'm a WDAS employee in waiting (just got to finish College and somehow get a US Visa) but I was taking that from the plethora of research I have done over the years.

It's a no brainier to update the farms/workstations for each CG production - They cram so much more into each frame that it has to be done. Imagine trying to render WALL-E on the same equipment used to do Finding Nemo or even Cars... It would take up to 3x as long for each frame.

As for R&D, for each production a certain amount of completely new technology is developed - Let's take for example Deep Canvas for Tarzan. Even though that is a tool that the studio used right up until Treasure Planet, it had to be 'paid' for from somethings budget - Tarzan. Bolt had the Painterly CG technology, hence that technology gets tacked onto it's budget helping it reach $150 mil (along with the cost of pushing that film through production on the original Sanders schedule, i.e. Extra employees and lots of overtime)

Compare it to Princess and the Frog - As I said the only new stuff they had to get for that film above a normal feature was to replace all the animation desks and the Off-The-Shelf replacement for CAPS. As Lasseter has already stated, PatF is going for a much more classic look - which I interpret as they are going all the way back to Mermaid/Beauty in terms of how much CG they are going to try and shove into the film instead of Atlantis/Treasure Planet where the lines really were blurred = lower cost. Add a much more relaxed production schedule and non stratospheric salaries = A much, much lower budget.

[Mooky]

Geek out moment: Princess and the Frog tarot cards!!!



*courtesy of Prince Kido of DCP forum*