Well there's really two ways to look at this - do you want the film to be the way the original animators intended or do you want it to just be sharp and bright. Some people prefer sharp and bright because that's more visually appealing (the true prints can sometimes appear muted by comparison) - so yes, for you, Tink's glow is more important. And that's fine.
For people like me, I want it the way it was animated - and that spans many different arguments surrounding Disney home releases. I want the film in its original aspect ratio - not pan & scan, or cropped - what the OAR was when it was animated, that's the only way it should be delivered to us. I want the film in its entirety how it was made. That means no censoring. They cut out some smoking in Melody Time. They cut out a slave-like centaurette in Fantasia. I want the film uncut and uncensored. I want the colors to be identical or as identical to the original print as possible. Not shined, sharpened, brightened. It should be a digital transfer but without tweaks to try to make them seem newer (and that's what they're doing, they're correcting mistakes, sharpening and thickening lines, changing colors to erase its age and make it seem like it could have been made in the last century).
I'm a purist like that. Some people would argue a 30 second piece of the film being removed is negligible. Some people argue that while a wide screen OAR may be correct, their TVs are small enough only a full screen version looks right so they don't care about an inch or two snipped off.
I want the films 100% the way they were animated - as that was the way the animators intended it to be. But that's highly ideal and pretty much a fantasy with the current way Disney is run.
Again, TR, TRDU, THoND, H, and TBC are not not getting updated because of not being vaulted, they're not getting updated because of $$$. No, I don't work inside Disney, but their actions are pretty transparent. They only give PEs to their top tier films (the billion dollar makers), and SEs to the films that are fairly okay in the money department. TBC was one of Disney's biggest failings and they've tried to bury it. Girls aren't running around with Bianca or Esmeralda outfits - they're dressed up as princesses, so THoND and TR/TRDU aren't the merchandise pushers so they aren't given much attention, either. Disney favors the films that sell product lines and make major cash. The films you keep brining up don't make money. Why do you think Eilowny from TBC and Kida from Atlantis aren't in the Disney princess line? Because both those films failed critically and financially. Disney is giving us two 'Snow' and 'Beauty' PEs in 10 years, and a SB SE and then PE in just four years. That's because those films make them mounds of cash. They know re-releasing TBC would get a few Disney aficionados out to buy it, but the lay person (i.e. parents buying films for their kids) won't pick it up because they don't really know about it and don't have the interest to find out. Snow White, Belle, Ariel, Peter - these are household names - not Taran, Bernard and Megara. And truly, it's the parents and young kids making Disney their cash. Parents who know that Disney is safe, clean, and interesting for their kids - and their kids who will then want Disney licensed merchandise. We, the Disney older crowd, aren't strong enough in ranks to buy enough product to get Disney to do what we want.
You see, Disney suffers from a form of color-blindness that seems to be transmitted through attending business school. They can only see in green.
The Disney Vault: Announcements, Discussion, & Questions
Last edited by Neal on Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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my chicken is infected
- Anniversary Edition
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I think UD might be jumping the gun a bit an making their best guess when they say fall, but yeah their working on a blu ray release of the 2 films. thats really all we know. it could be late 2009, but more likely 2010.calster21 wrote:I don't understand whats happening to Toy Story 1 and 2. I think they are being released in 3D in fall 2009, but will this be in theaters only?
When I check the OOP list on UD, it says that the Blu-Ray version is coming out in fall 2010.
I doubt there will be any release of it in 3d when it does hit blu ray, it'll be a theater only thing. 3d isnt yet mainstream enough to expect to see it in your own home yet. 3d is the latest gimick they have to keep people going to see movies in the theaters, if people knew they could just wait for the blu ray they might not see it in theaters.
Wow, Neal, that was a good rant; exactly the way I feel. And yes, I want the films as they were originally intended. Disney works in an odd way: like you say, they only promote what sells well, like TLM or TLK etc. But it's also true the other way around: films like e.g.'The Rescuers and Oliver and Company might have been more famous if Disney supported those films better.
Remember, when The Rescuers came out, it was Disney's highest-grossing film since The Jungle Book, a film produced 10 years before (and the last with Walt). I think that film saved the Disney Studio from quitting the animation business altogether. And remember it was because Oliver did SO well, that Eisner and Katzenberg decided to bring out a new Disney animated classic every year! On the PE of TLM, you can even hear one of the directors say Katzenberg didn't think TLM would make as much money as Oliver!!
Remember, when The Rescuers came out, it was Disney's highest-grossing film since The Jungle Book, a film produced 10 years before (and the last with Walt). I think that film saved the Disney Studio from quitting the animation business altogether. And remember it was because Oliver did SO well, that Eisner and Katzenberg decided to bring out a new Disney animated classic every year! On the PE of TLM, you can even hear one of the directors say Katzenberg didn't think TLM would make as much money as Oliver!!
It wasn't a rant so much as a commentary. But thank you! 
Disney is quite short sighted now. Back in Walt's days, if something was a failure, like Sleeping Beauty was, he just had faith that it would one day find its niche and make back its money. He didn't divorce it just because it failed at the box office.
If Sleeping Beauty failed under the current administration, they'd never speak of it again and just overlook it time and time again for a new release, theme park representation, or merchandise. Can you imagine that? A Disney without Aurora everywhere?
And thanks, escapay. What was I thinking?
Disney is quite short sighted now. Back in Walt's days, if something was a failure, like Sleeping Beauty was, he just had faith that it would one day find its niche and make back its money. He didn't divorce it just because it failed at the box office.
If Sleeping Beauty failed under the current administration, they'd never speak of it again and just overlook it time and time again for a new release, theme park representation, or merchandise. Can you imagine that? A Disney without Aurora everywhere?
And thanks, escapay. What was I thinking?
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dvdjunkie
- Signature Collection
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How many of you who are complaining about the color restorations of Disney Classics in the PE version are watching them on un-calibrated LCD televisions?
If you haven't spent the extra money to have your LCD television calibrated, then you are not seeing the picture as it was intended to be seen and some colors will tend to override others.
I didn't believe this as a fact, until I broke down and had my 56" LCD HDTV Monitor Calibrated. What a world of difference that made. And one of the many advantages to having the television calibrated is it will prolong the life of the Pixels and help the television run cooler, which prolongs the life of the set as well.
If you haven't spent the extra money to have your LCD television calibrated, then you are not seeing the picture as it was intended to be seen and some colors will tend to override others.
I didn't believe this as a fact, until I broke down and had my 56" LCD HDTV Monitor Calibrated. What a world of difference that made. And one of the many advantages to having the television calibrated is it will prolong the life of the Pixels and help the television run cooler, which prolongs the life of the set as well.
The only way to watch movies - Original Aspect Ratio!!!!
I LOVE my Blu-Ray Disc Player!
I LOVE my Blu-Ray Disc Player!
Well, that's only true to some extent. He never promoted the 1940's 'package films' again.Neal wrote:Disney is quite short sighted now. Back in Walt's days, if something was a failure, like Sleeping Beauty was, he just had faith that it would one day find its niche and make back its money. He didn't divorce it just because it failed at the box office.
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Fflewduur
- Gold Classic Collection
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There's vaulting and there's vaulting. The Sword in the Stone's Gold Collection DVD was still available (at least at Amazon) up until at least a week before the 45th Anniversary edition came out. Saludos Amigos and The Three Caballeros were both available in GC editions <i>after</i> the release of The Cabelleros Collection. The SE of Oliver & Company is still available 2 months out from its impending re-release (though the price has gone up in the past several weeks: last month it was $10 cheaper than the February pre-order; now the difference is about a buck). Titles that stay available at retail for years and only disappear between releases for a several weeks (or not at all) aren't a significant inconvenience to the impatient fan or collector.
No studio keeps its entire catalog perennially in print. You're not going to see re-releases (with or without extended periods of unavailability) go away in favor of an all-in-print all-the-time model---at least not until downloads become the content delivery system of the masses and the recurring expenses involved with making, moving, and selling physical media are eliminated.
<b>We buy releases when they're new because a)we're sheep; b)new releases and re-releases get active marketing to ensure we're aware they exist; and c) they're easy to buy because the newly available releases get the widest distribution in the greatest numbers and the most prominent retail display. Result: on average, half a title's sales accrue in its first month at market.</b>
Oliver and Company is an interesting example. It's got issues on its own merits. It came at the end of the studios' animation drought and it was in many ways a better and more familiar product than the films which immediately preceded it, so it was generally well-received; its reputation, name recognition, and shelf life ultimately suffer from comparison and proximity to most of the next decade's films which immediately followed. Not a masterpiece, not a big moneymaker. Why is this "useless" reissue coming out? Short answer: because time doesn't stand still. When the SE came out in mid-2002, DVD sales had yet to eclipse VHS, DVD sales and rentals had yet to break box office returns' percentage of Hollywood's revenue, and DVD players were still <i>well</i> shy of reaching into 50% of US households; I don't know exactly where that number is today, but I feel comfortable it's at or near 90% today since we were well into the 80s a year and a half ago. Don't like the new release? Don't get it: it's not for you. It's for the casual buyers, the non-Disney-inasaniacs among the tens of millions of folks who've bought players since the film's last release. With minimal reinvestment in making it "new" again---well, we'll never know, but I'd be unsurprised if the new release sells nearly as well by the end of '09 as the SE has in the past six year-plus, and I fail to see how that's a bad thing for the film.
If everything were always in print you'd likely see brick-and-mortar retail more or less stop stocking catalog titles in favor of new releases altogether because of their limited shelf space. What happens when a re-release stops flying off the shelves? It sits there, trickling away, until it's marked down (which hits the bottom line) or gets pulled and sent back to distribution to be shipped out somewhere else until it gets marked down or returned to the studio (and every time a product gets physically handled after its initial stocking costs time, effort, and money). Vaulting works because when you combine the facts from the bolded statement above with the front-loaded expectation of limited availability, periodic re-releases are the best way to get the most product from duplication to distribution to retail into the home in the least time with the most efficient use of resources.
As for sales lost to eBay etc: whatever they miss out on in private or third-party sales of imports or legitimate new & used copies of OOP titles, it's a pittance compared to the revenue lost to rent'n'ripping, file-sharing, and sales of physical media with pirated content.
Why can't we have a one-perfect-transfer-for-all-time release policy? Short answer (<i>redux</i>): because time and technology don't stand still. Did you have a personal computer in 1997 (when DVD launched)? Is it the same one you're using now? If not, are there are any important differences in the technical specs between the two?At first, a lot of HD masters which sourced home media releases were created at 1080i---I confess I don't know the cut-off date---which turned out not to be good enough in a world with an emerging 1080p home format standard: that's work that has to be done over. Then there are HD masters, some created as recently as three years ago, which were monitored on less precise & revealing displays than are currently available to the consumer at the retail market: that's work that has to be done over. And in the restoration field, it's only been in the past couple years that the infrastructure has come into place to do the kind of work that was done for the recent Platinum edition of Sleeping Beauty, beginning with a digital scan of the original in-camera elements at resolutions exponentially higher than HD.
No studio keeps its entire catalog perennially in print. You're not going to see re-releases (with or without extended periods of unavailability) go away in favor of an all-in-print all-the-time model---at least not until downloads become the content delivery system of the masses and the recurring expenses involved with making, moving, and selling physical media are eliminated.
<b>We buy releases when they're new because a)we're sheep; b)new releases and re-releases get active marketing to ensure we're aware they exist; and c) they're easy to buy because the newly available releases get the widest distribution in the greatest numbers and the most prominent retail display. Result: on average, half a title's sales accrue in its first month at market.</b>
Oliver and Company is an interesting example. It's got issues on its own merits. It came at the end of the studios' animation drought and it was in many ways a better and more familiar product than the films which immediately preceded it, so it was generally well-received; its reputation, name recognition, and shelf life ultimately suffer from comparison and proximity to most of the next decade's films which immediately followed. Not a masterpiece, not a big moneymaker. Why is this "useless" reissue coming out? Short answer: because time doesn't stand still. When the SE came out in mid-2002, DVD sales had yet to eclipse VHS, DVD sales and rentals had yet to break box office returns' percentage of Hollywood's revenue, and DVD players were still <i>well</i> shy of reaching into 50% of US households; I don't know exactly where that number is today, but I feel comfortable it's at or near 90% today since we were well into the 80s a year and a half ago. Don't like the new release? Don't get it: it's not for you. It's for the casual buyers, the non-Disney-inasaniacs among the tens of millions of folks who've bought players since the film's last release. With minimal reinvestment in making it "new" again---well, we'll never know, but I'd be unsurprised if the new release sells nearly as well by the end of '09 as the SE has in the past six year-plus, and I fail to see how that's a bad thing for the film.
If everything were always in print you'd likely see brick-and-mortar retail more or less stop stocking catalog titles in favor of new releases altogether because of their limited shelf space. What happens when a re-release stops flying off the shelves? It sits there, trickling away, until it's marked down (which hits the bottom line) or gets pulled and sent back to distribution to be shipped out somewhere else until it gets marked down or returned to the studio (and every time a product gets physically handled after its initial stocking costs time, effort, and money). Vaulting works because when you combine the facts from the bolded statement above with the front-loaded expectation of limited availability, periodic re-releases are the best way to get the most product from duplication to distribution to retail into the home in the least time with the most efficient use of resources.
As for sales lost to eBay etc: whatever they miss out on in private or third-party sales of imports or legitimate new & used copies of OOP titles, it's a pittance compared to the revenue lost to rent'n'ripping, file-sharing, and sales of physical media with pirated content.
Why can't we have a one-perfect-transfer-for-all-time release policy? Short answer (<i>redux</i>): because time and technology don't stand still. Did you have a personal computer in 1997 (when DVD launched)? Is it the same one you're using now? If not, are there are any important differences in the technical specs between the two?At first, a lot of HD masters which sourced home media releases were created at 1080i---I confess I don't know the cut-off date---which turned out not to be good enough in a world with an emerging 1080p home format standard: that's work that has to be done over. Then there are HD masters, some created as recently as three years ago, which were monitored on less precise & revealing displays than are currently available to the consumer at the retail market: that's work that has to be done over. And in the restoration field, it's only been in the past couple years that the infrastructure has come into place to do the kind of work that was done for the recent Platinum edition of Sleeping Beauty, beginning with a digital scan of the original in-camera elements at resolutions exponentially higher than HD.
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goofystitch
- Collector's Edition
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- Location: Walt Disney World
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MouseHouse55
- Gold Classic Collection
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Back into the Vault...
Hey everybody. I had not seen this mentioned before, sorry if it has been. Amazon had this link up on their front page today:
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html? ... =507846</a>
Seems that Mermaids 1 and 3 aren't hanging around, even though 2 is just coming back out. And looks like Peter Pan is making a quick exit as well.
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html? ... =507846</a>
Seems that Mermaids 1 and 3 aren't hanging around, even though 2 is just coming back out. And looks like Peter Pan is making a quick exit as well.
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goofystitch
- Collector's Edition
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- Location: Walt Disney World
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goofystitch
- Collector's Edition
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- Location: Walt Disney World
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Escapay
- Ultimate Collector's Edition
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- Contact:
The Disney Vault: Announcements, Discussion, & Questions by Sulley, created October 13, 2003
Whats going into the vault in January 2009? by calster21, created November 17, 2008
Disney Vault Policy: A Bombshell by Neal, created December 11, 2008
albert
Whats going into the vault in January 2009? by calster21, created November 17, 2008
Disney Vault Policy: A Bombshell by Neal, created December 11, 2008
albert
WIST #60:
AwallaceUNC: Would you prefer Substi-Blu-tiary Locomotion?
WIST #61:
TheSequelOfDisney: Damn, did Lin-Manuel Miranda go and murder all your families?
AwallaceUNC: Would you prefer Substi-Blu-tiary Locomotion?
WIST #61:
TheSequelOfDisney: Damn, did Lin-Manuel Miranda go and murder all your families?
Whats going into the vault in 2010?
What is everybody's best guess as to whats heading to the vault after the January 2009 inductees (LM, PP, TS).