The Little Mermaid Discussion

[Redadoodles]

Source: https://www.laughingplace.com/w/article ... ter-hours/

I'm glad they weren't able to get it going yet for this film.

The Swan Princess is the last american animated feature film to use painted cells.

[D82]

I know it was thought that Ron John cameos started with Aladdin, but could the two people to the left be another cameo or is it just a coincidence?

According to this article, that one's not a cameo, but I don't know if Ron and John themselves have confirmed that or not.

The Swan Princess is the last american animated feature film to use painted cells.

I didn't know that. That's interesting.

[Farerb]

Well, in the Aladdin audio commentary the claimed it started with Aladdin so I guess it's only a coincidence.

[D82]

Well, in the Aladdin audio commentary the claimed it started with Aladdin so I guess it's only a coincidence.

They look a bit like them, but if even they said that, it must be true that it's just a coincidence.

[UmbrellaFish]

I think they look rather a bit like the Duke and King from Cinderella. I know those characters have an actual cameo in this scene, but maybe they was some cost-cutting going on here? They both have the same noses as the Cinderella characters, one of them has a similar moustache as the King, and the other wears the same sort of collar that the Duke wears.

[Disney Duster]

I think you're right UmbrellaFish.

[Disney's Divinity]

I thought M&C "cameoed" as polyps in Ursula's garden? EDIT: Oh, I forgot that was Harold I'm thinking about.

[D82]

I think they look rather a bit like the Duke and King from Cinderella. I know those characters have an actual cameo in this scene, but maybe they was some cost-cutting going on here? They both have the same noses as the Cinderella characters, one of them has a similar moustache as the King, and the other wears the same sort of collar that the Duke wears.

Oh, you're right. They resemble the Duke and King from Cinderella more. I think your guess is probably correct.

[D82]

I didn't know Glen Keane was going to animate Ursula at first instead of Ariel.

The characters that you were responsible for as an animator at Disney are so varied in style and design. You never just did one specific type of character. How would you decide who you wanted to do?
I’m usually drawn to something that’s got this weight to it. Weight of spirit, weight of energy, physical weight. There’s a sculptor in me that finds it really fascinating when you look at a Rodin sculpture and you see a tenderness in the eye of someone he is sculpting. It doesn’t have to be a villain, though at the beginning I thought that that’s what I needed — a villain to really communicate that kind of powerful energy, force. But then I heard Jodi Benson sing “Part of Your World” [for Little Mermaid]. I was supposed to do Ursula because I was doing the bigger characters. But I heard and saw in her interpretation of that song, “Part of Your World,” a greater power — this power of believing that the impossible is possible. I just thought, Oh, whoa. That is the brightest light. I got to animate that. And that’s pretty much what’s been driving me since.

Source: https://www.vulture.com/2020/10/disney- ... lanet.html

[Disney Duster]

That's amazing info! Thank you D82!

[Sotiris]

I didn't know Glen Keane was going to animate Ursula at first instead of Ariel.

Me neither. I think we're all glad that didn't happen. Glen did an exquisite job with Ariel that set the standard for modern Disney heroines and Ruben Aquino was also excellent at animating Ursula who remains to this day one of the most expressive, theatrical, and consistently well-animated villains. At the end of the day, everything happened the way it should have happened.

[Disney Duster]

He put all that power into Ariel and Ursula still turned out awesome!

[D82]

I think we're all glad that didn't happen. Glen did an exquisite job with Ariel that set the standard for modern Disney heroines and Ruben Aquino was also excellent at animating Ursula who remains to this day one of the most expressive, theatrical, and consistently well-animated villains. At the end of the day, everything happened the way it should have happened.

Of course. I'm very glad Glen ended up animating Ariel, who is my favorite Disney female protagonist, and I agree that Ruben Aquino did a great job with Ursula as well.

[Disney's Divinity]

It's always going to be one of those "What If's" you can't help but wonder over--in what ways would Ursula have been different with Keane animating her? I think Aquino is sort of overlooked compared to a lot of the bigger names, which is a shame because he did an incredible job with Ursula. The fact that the protagonist and villain are both very "intense" characters is one reason why the film is so successful, and why Ariel was so groundbreaking and enduring, imo.

[Redadoodles]

While working, I had the film in the background and I just realized how many people wanted Ariel to apologize more for what she did... But why ?
If anything, she put her OWN life in danger. Triton is actually the fool who sacrificed himself to save his (favorite) daughter right then and even if his sacrifice is noble to some extent, it can't make one forget the fact that he also sacrificed not only his other daughters but all of the people of his kingdom.

I also read that Ariel doesn't seem to learn anything throughout the film but it's wrong. She learns to not trust strangers nor find an easy/quick way out.
Just because we don't get a cheesy speech regarding that doesn't mean she doesn't grow up. If you take Snow White for example, I am pretty sure she wouldn't take another apple from a random person. Same principle with Ariel.

[D82]

Glen Keane tells again how he was first assigned to animate Ursula instead of Ariel in this podcast (around the 5 minute mark): https://nofilmschool.com/podcast-vetera ... -over-moon

While working, I had the film in the background and I just realized how many people wanted Ariel to apologize more for what she did... But why ?

What do people want her to apologize for?

I also read that Ariel doesn't seem to learn anything throughout the film but it's wrong. She learns to not trust strangers nor find an easy/quick way out.
Just because we don't get a cheesy speech regarding that doesn't mean she doesn't grow up. If you take Snow White for example, I am pretty sure she wouldn't take another apple from a random person. Same principle with Ariel.

I don't think the main character always needs to learn some lesson, but I agree that she grows up and is not exactly the same she was at the beginning. It's just more subtle here, which I personally prefer.

[Disney Duster]

I never realized Ariel just put her own life in danger. Good observation. Still, she should apologize just like all children do who do something wrong. And she did apologize, once, so it works for me. Triton really was irresponsible, too, just like you said, sacrificing everything for one person's life.

[Redadoodles]

Glen Keane tells again how he was first assigned to animate Ursula instead of Ariel in this podcast (around the 5 minute mark): https://nofilmschool.com/podcast-vetera ... -over-moon

While working, I had the film in the background and I just realized how many people wanted Ariel to apologize more for what she did... But why ?

What do people want her to apologize for?

I also read that Ariel doesn't seem to learn anything throughout the film but it's wrong. She learns to not trust strangers nor find an easy/quick way out.
Just because we don't get a cheesy speech regarding that doesn't mean she doesn't grow up. If you take Snow White for example, I am pretty sure she wouldn't take another apple from a random person. Same principle with Ariel.

I don't think the main character always needs to learn some lesson, but I agree that she grows up and is not exactly the same she was at the beginning. It's just more subtle here, which I personally prefer.

Well, a character (especially when it's the main one in a story) needs an evolution throughout a story, otherwise it's pointless but I agree, I like her subtle change and the way it's handled.

Apparently, they wanted her to apologize for putting the kingdom in danger because she knew that Ursula was evil.

[Farerb]

I put the blame on Triton more on Ariel, even Triton blames himself and that was on purpose. Triton and Ariel had a cut scene after Ursula is defeated which I think should have remained, but the film still works without it.

To me it never seemed like Ariel knew that Ursula was evil, probably just knew that she had bad reputation, but the way she talks about her and the way they interact when she arrives at her lair suggests that they have never met before.

[D82]

Well, a character (especially when it's the main one in a story) needs an evolution throughout a story, otherwise it's pointless but I agree, I like her subtle change and the way it's handled.

I don't think Mary Poppins, for example, shows a big evolution throughout the movie and she's still a good character, but maybe I'm wrong and she does.

Apparently, they wanted her to apologize for putting the kingdom in danger because she knew that Ursula was evil.

I don't think she knew she was putting the kingdom in danger. She probably thought she was just risking her own like.

Triton and Ariel had a cut scene after Ursula is defeated which I think should have remained, but the film still works without it.

I don't remember that scene now. I'll have to check it out.

To me it never seemed like Ariel knew that Ursula was evil, probably just knew that she had bad reputation, but the way she talks about her and the way they interact when she arrives at her lair suggests that they have never met before.

That's the same impression I've always gotten. She probably suspected she wasn't a good person, but I don't think she knew how dangerous she could be.