Frog Princess found & renamed!

[steve]

I'll further our discussion into the dark underworld which is the "OFF-TOPIC LANDS"! DUH-DUH-DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH...

I normally don't mind discussions going a bit off topic, but I'm not gonna stand around while that fricking franchise hijacks another thread!

[2099net]

Reading between the lines ,I think what she's saying is "Look, there's a whole world out there. Full of terrible things, wonderful things and different traditions, viewpoints and values. And I won't let my children be brainwashed by the overtly marketed Disney Princesses, as they do nothing to show how wonderful the world actually is, but instead concentrate on dresses, jewelry and other superficial stuff, which I consider unimportant."

Even if that's true, she has said that she is not letting her children watch the movies, not that she is not letting them have Princess merchandise. As she never explicitly mentions the franchise itself, it's unlikely that that's what's at the front of her mind.

To that end, this thread has gone very off topic in that it is no longer related to Jolie's opinion regarding the actual movies, which someone brought up in relation to Tiana's ethnicity - there is no other connection to the topic that's supposed to be discussed - but more so because it's no longer related to the upcoming Princess and the Frog movie.

But to the non-Disneyphile, the "franchise" and the "films" are the same. Why is it unlikely that's whats on Angelina's mind. Show them the films, and her children are more likely to want the merchandise. It hard (but not impossible) to seperate one from the other.

[Mooky]

Belle, Mulan and Cinderella are modest and humble, I doubt they'd prance around in those dresses.

DP line presents them all as pretty objects, they are not given any personality whatsoever, they are there to look pretty and help sell products with their images.

Don't take it the wrong way - I myself am obsessed with Disney Princesses but even I can tell they offer nothing beyond nice images to look at. I understand why some people detest it - even I'd detest it if I had no emotional and sentimental connection to Belle, Jasmine, Ariel, Mulan and Cinderella.

Those "Enchanted Tales" were probably the best thing that could have helped people change perception of the line, but Disney had to dumb it down - I've only seen YouTube videos of Aurora segment and that was enough for me to know that nothing has changed.

Anyway, back to Angie. I can see where she's coming from, but why does it seem impossible/unacceptable to her that a black girl could identify herself with a white princess and vice versa? What's wrong with that? Maybe the problem is the lack of suitable black female characters who could serve as role models? Then why is she blaming Disney - Disney's not the only animation company. I admit that the Disney Princess merchandise is all over the place, but she can always keep her children away from Disney videos. If she wanted a black princess she could have talked to the makers of "Shrek the Third" to put a black princess in the mix, she probably has some influence over there, after all she made two films for them.

[UmbrellaFish]

But, being a successful actress, Angelina Jolie should know the difference between franchise and film if she doesn't already.

I have to say, this discussion is getting silly. Everything that's been said once has been said a million times in this thread alone. Not to mention, we know a black princess is coming to the franchise, and it's not like Angelina Jolie is going to find out on here. So maybe we should just drop it.

[Ariel'sprince]

Madagascar does have a Gloria who's black.
Well,I like the Disney Princesses (And I love buying Princess merchandise).
They can make a black Shrek Princess,how about the black Little Mermaid/Beauty/one of the 12 Dancing Princesses/Aladdin's Princess.

[2099net]

But, being a successful actress, Angelina Jolie should know the difference between franchise and film if she doesn't already.

I'm sure she does. But her children, while being priviliged, don't live in a vaccuum. They're just as subsectable to Disney's marketing machine onslaught as any other child.

[UmbrellaFish]

I'm sure she does. But her children, while being priviliged, don't live in a vaccuum. They're just as subsectable to Disney's marketing machine onslaught as any other child.

Well, then why single out Disney then? Dreamworks is starting up a Princess franchise. Why not say the media in general?

[Mooky]

Well, then why single out Disney then? Dreamworks is starting up a Princess franchise. Why not say the media in general?

Exactly!
http://www.toyglobe.com/ShrekDolls.php

[Ariel'sprince]

You know,we are getting off-topic.
Yeah,Dreamworks have the Shrek Princess,why shouldn't she complaine on them? they (kinda) teach how to be spoiled.

[Mooky]

OK, back on topic:

What do you think of Bruno Campos providing prince's voice? I've only seen him in "Nip/Tuck", but I don't really remember his voice.

[2099net]

I'm sure she does. But her children, while being priviliged, don't live in a vaccuum. They're just as subsectable to Disney's marketing machine onslaught as any other child.

Well, then why single out Disney then? Dreamworks is starting up a Princess franchise. Why not say the media in general?

Well, for a start, I don't believe the quotes in OK! magzine are 100% accurate. OK! are hardly known for their journalistic integrity are they?

Do you really think Angelina's stopping her children from watching all Disney films? Not letting them see The Lion King or Bambi or 101 Dalmations? I doubt it. It's possible that she has a blanket boycott mentality, but I don't think so. There's other studios with more politically incorrect films for her to take issue with. Knowing Angelina's political views, I doubt she's a fan of Fox News, but she still makes films for Fox!

She's not some pervese Lady Tremain enjoying her children's misery! Laughing to herself as they cry infront of black TV screens.

So I believe - if you read between the lines - she is just talking of the Princess films (and most likely franchise too). And while you may not agree with her views, she obviously does. She has strong views, and is bringing up her children according to her views.

Some people have mentioned her other animated films, but I think she has shown that she is considering her choices more these days than perhaps before. After all, she was outspoken on the violence in Beowulf, claiming she never knew it would be as graphic as it was. Perhaps having childen has simply changed her perspective recently.
http://www.prezzybox.com/about/news.aspx?article=827

As for her not knowing about the upcoming The Princess and The Frog. Big deal. Perhaps she has more important things on her mind, from working on her own latest films (and making lots of money admittedly! ) or using some of her money and fame to work lessening the shadow of poverty and hunger in developing nations! You know, life and death stuff for thousands and thousands of people.

As for getting this back on topic, the fact some people say Disney is only making the Princess and the Frog in order to create a black princess shows that the princess line is seen as overwhelmingly white. Did anyone ever claim Disney made Mulan just to have an Asian character or Lilo and Stitch just to create an Hawiian character?

[Ariel'sprince]

But she works for Dreamworks,why don't she blame the Shrek Princesses insted? they"re a bad role model for small kids,and there's only white princesses in their line.
There is a difference between making a movie with Hawiian and Asian characters and making a movie to add a black Disney Princess and make more money,if the Princess line wasn't sucessful then Disney whould have never thought of making this movie.

[SpringHeelJack]

Because no one KNOWS about the Dreamworks Princess stuff. Crap, I forgot they were attempting that until I saw it here. It's not going to evolve into a franchise anywhere NEAR as strong as Disney's, so let it go.

And for the love of Mike, Ariel'sprince, is it not entirely possible they'd be making this movie if the line WASN'T successful? Are you implying if the Disney Princess line had flopped, executives would have said "Oh, well, people must not like princesses, let's never make a movie about any again." If there is an ulterior motive, and I'm not saying one way or the other, it really doesn't mean it HAS to do with any effects of the Disney Princess line. Oy.

[Ariel'sprince]

It's part of the Shrek franchise,Shrek isn't sucessful?.
No,the Princess line is sucessful and they think of more ways to make money,how about a black girl? they"re sure that this will make more money and that's why we"re getting The Princess and the Frog.

[Princess Forever]

I think part of the "controversy" might be that the "Frog Prince/ess" isn't an African or African-American fairytale/folklore. In the original tale the princess is described as having hair golden like the sun. Mulan is from an Asian story and Pocahontas was really Indian, plus Esmeralda is indeed a gypsy in the book. Perhaps they could have looked to African stories for inspiration? Not that I mind about Tiana being in the Frog Princess.

[SpringHeelJack]

Honestly, it's like arguing with a parrot.

Shrek the movie is successful. The toys are (fairly) successful. However, I will bet you any money that a majority of girls will not come out of the theater asking for the Dreamworks Sleeping Beauty on their birthday cake or to be the Dreamworks Snow White for Halloween. It's an attempt to create a franchise that will compete the already established and far more popular Disney Princess line, and it won't be a threat, regardless of how well the movies do (which are on a downward spiral, in any sense).

And honestly, if they added a Princess who happened to be a freaking mongoose to the line, it would make money. Every decision is about money, I don't doubt this. However, if they chose to add another white princess to the line, they may come under fire, but they will still make money. Trust me. Are you saying they added Mulan because she was Chinese, or Pocahontas because she was a Native American?

[UmbrellaFish]

Well, for a start, I don't believe the quotes in OK! magzine are 100% accurate. OK! are hardly known for their journalistic integrity are they?

Neither do I. But that doesn't prove she didn't say it.

Do you really think Angelina's stopping her children from watching all Disney films? Not letting them see The Lion King or Bambi or 101 Dalmations? I doubt it. It's possible that she has a blanket boycott mentality, but I don't think so. There's other studios with more politically incorrect films for her to take issue with. Knowing Angelina's political views, I doubt she's a fan of Fox News, but she still makes films for Fox!

She's not some pervese Lady Tremain enjoying her children's misery! Laughing to herself as they cry infront of black TV screens.

So I believe - if you read between the lines - she is just talking of the Princess films (and most likely franchise too). And while you may not agree with her views, she obviously does. She has strong views, and is bringing up her children according to her views.

No, I don't believe Angelina is not allowing her children from watching the other Disney films. But not letting your child watch "Cinderella" or buy a Cinderella doll is plain moronic to me. If she's allowed to speak her views, than I am too. Angelina may have seen a lot more of the world than I have, but that's not the point here. How many Disney Stores are found in Africa? I am the Disney fan, the UD Community are Disney fans, we can correct her. A black princess is coming. If she felt that strongly about this, why doesn't she look it up? I don't care if she has better things to do. It's as simple as typing in "Black Disney Princess" on Google.com before she says anything. And I don't think it's the general public's opinion either. Otherwise the Disney Princess line's sales would suck. But you know it's her children. I won't say how she should raise them, I don't know her homelife. I still think it's silly.

As for getting this back on topic, the fact some people say Disney is only making the Princess and the Frog in order to create a black princess shows that the princess line is seen as overwhelmingly white. Did anyone ever claim Disney made Mulan just to have an Asian character or Lilo and Stitch just to create an Hawiian character?

You're right. But that was before. Tiana's coming in 2009. It's also sad there's controversy about this movie even before it's out.

Because no one KNOWS about the Dreamworks Princess stuff. Crap, I forgot they were attempting that until I saw it here. It's not going to evolve into a franchise anywhere NEAR as strong as Disney's, so let it go.

No one probably knew of the Princess line before it began. For instance, Disney's Fairies line just started, but it's not yet a household name. Shrek Princess may gain power. They're obviously following in Disney's footsteps.

[Mooky]

Popularity of Disney Princess franchise had nothing to do with "The Princess and the Frog". Back in 2006, when Disney bought Pixar and John Lasseter became in charge of WDFA he started thinking of ways to bring hand-drawn animation back to Disney. And what better way to do it than with a Princess film? "Rapunzel" was already taken, so he, Musker and Clements thought of "The Frog Princess". At first they planned it to be a straight-forward telling of this Russian fairytale, but then they moved the story to New Orleans and that's the only reason why the leading lady is African-American. They most certainly didn't make her black just to please Angelina Jolies of this world.

However, the film may benefit because of popularity of Disney Princesses, and the line may benefit because people like Angelina Jolie will see that Disney isn't all about white princesses. So it's a win-win situation.

But I repeat, the initial idea behind TPatF had nothing to do with Disney Princesses.

[Ariel'sprince]

Yeah,in the original story the Princess was white (She was also spoiled and selfish but changed after she met the frog).
I agree with UmberllaFish about Angelina again.

Shrek the movie is successful. The toys are (fairly) successful. However, I will bet you any money that a majority of girls will not come out of the theater asking for the Dreamworks Sleeping Beauty on their birthday cake or to be the Dreamworks Snow White for Halloween. It's an attempt to create a franchise that will compete the already established and far more popular Disney Princess line, and it won't be a threat, regardless of how well the movies do (which are on a downward spiral, in any sense).

Why not? there Shrek Princess costumes,I"m sure that they"ll get more attention with the next Shrek movies,the Fairies wasn't that sucessful when it was out like UmberllaFish said.

And honestly, if they added a Princess who happened to be a freaking mongoose to the line, it would make money. Every decision is about money, I don't doubt this. However, if they chose to add another white princess to the line, they may come under fire, but they will still make money. Trust me. Are you saying they added Mulan because she was Chinese, or Pocahontas because she was a Native American?

.
No,there's hugh difference,Pocahontas and Mulan are Princesses and their characters are perfact for this line,Tiana is black and her movie was created to make more money on a black Princess.
And besides-Pocahontas and Mulan were Asian and Native American in their original stories,the original Frog Prince's Prncess was white just like Snow White,Cinderella,Belle and Aurora.

[UmbrellaFish]

However, the film may benefit because of popularity of Disney Princesses, and the line may benefit because people like Angelina Jolie will see that Disney isn't all about white princesses. So it's a win-win situation.

You're right. Seriously, I want to drop this debate. It's useless. The film isn't out and we're talking about a celeb's quote.

Trying to get back on topic: I haven't seen Nip/Tuck. Is it only on HBO because I'd like to see Bruno Campos in it? I've never heard of him before TPATF