Neal wrote:Movie Gallery is the most prominent rental chain around me in Wisconsin and I was there a week ago and managed to pick up 'Mermaid', 'Lion', and "Cinderella". So the fact Blockbuster said they were forced to send titles back shocked me.
You talk to a Blockbuster schlub on the phone and you believed her?
There's a far easier explanation -- discs get damaged or are not returned -- the titles are out of print, so the store can't buy anymore for rental purposes. Imagine loaning out Snow White for seven years to everyone in your neighborhood. How long do you think that disc would last?
Why would the clerk be shining you on? Because then you're mad at Disney, not Blockbuster. Clerk gets to deflect an upset customer, gets you off the phone so she can get back to doing her job, and then you report what she says as Gospel.
I love the vault policy. It gurantees that Disney has to try and re-sell their films every 7-10 years. Forces them to add more features, increase the quality. Keeps them on their toes. You know what happens to non-vault titles? You get The Rescuers Down Under, a landmark in Disney animation technology, and one of the ugliest Disney DVDs around. It's a non-digital port, struck from a film print, with botched color timing and shocking film grain and it looks like absolute garbage. That disc has been in circulation for over NINE YEARS. Look at The Black Cauldron -- shot in Technirama 70, and the disc isn't even enhanced for widescreen televisions. That disc has been out for EIGHT years. Look at Hercules -- again, the video is garbage. Ditto Hunchback.
I say every Disney animated feature should be vaulted. At least Disney would be forced into giving people a reason to buy them again...like competent video transfers. And seriously, man - if you can't find a rental copy of Snow White, you're not trying hard enough.
Strange. The Blockbusters in my city have tons of vaulted classics on the rental shelves. Even the new one that opened up two years ago has Snow White, Beauty and the Beast, Lion King ect.
It's possible that Netflix doesn't have them cause people just didn't send them back. That's possible for all rental places... I know I've abused the "If you don't return it in 30 days you buy it" policy Blockbuster has in order to pick up some oop DVDs.
I've never heard of a rental place having to send movies back. Maybe that lady just confused renting for buying?
Widdi wrote:Strange. The Blockbusters in my city have tons of vaulted classics on the rental shelves. Even the new one that opened up two years ago has Snow White, Beauty and the Beast, Lion King ect.
It's possible that Netflix doesn't have them cause people just didn't send them back. That's possible for all rental places... I know I've abused the "If you don't return it in 30 days you buy it" policy Blockbuster has in order to pick up some oop DVDs.
I've never heard of a rental place having to send movies back. Maybe that lady just confused renting for buying?
That's one dilly of a pickle.
She was lying. Blockbuster and other chains buy titles for rental purposes and are charged an arm and a leg beyond point of sale prices. But they then get to rent that title forever -- or at least until some five year old tries to stick it into the toaster or some parent leaves it in the car on a summer day, etc. The idea someone would refuse to return it and own didn't occur to me, but it is a likely scenario as well. Disney's vault policy actually forces these chains to buy MORE titles for rental and retail as the chains know they can move units and Disney titles are evergreen rentals. And when Disney vaults a title and some chain hasn't bought enough rental versions and the title dwindles away on the shelf, then its gone.
But Disney is not forcing these chains to return the films they have already paid for. If I were Neal, I would call back and ask to the store manager for an interview and make the whole project about how stores buy titles for rental purposes and the pricing and licensing etc. And then at the end, he could drop the bomb that one of his employees told him Disney "forced" them to return a 9 year old disc of Pinocchio, a 7 year old disc of Snow White, and a 6 year old disc of Beauty and the Beast.
p.s. Walt's Fantasia was released in 2000, is out of print, and that's still available on NetFlix. NetFlix obviously ran out of Snow White and Beauty.
I'm also pretty sure that no retailer is ever "forced" to return any Disney DVD's. If you havn't noticed before it is announced any film is going into the vault they usually drop in price, this lowers the amount in stock. Later when they are announced Disney simply stops shipping the releases. I bet the wal-mart in my area hasn't seen a new shipment of TLM or Peter Pan for weeks.
I was just in my local Blockbuster the other day and they did have copies of the older Oliver & Company, Snow White, and Pinocchio. I'm sure the girl you spoke with was just too lazy to actually go and check for you. Afterall, what is one sale in the grand scheme of things?
Forces them to add more features, increase the quality.
Heh, are you kidding me? All they do is make them brighter and brighter. The only time the quality is actually INCREASED is when going from VHS to DVD or whatever... like the first time they're released on DVD.
And look at The Sword In the Stone... they didn't add more features at all. Pssh
And yeah, I hate vaulting. Though the Michicard system is insanely awesome. (That's a thing where you can inter-loan stuff from just about any library in Michigan). Between all of them I can get any Disney DVD ever released, with the exception of a few of the rarer ones. All the PEs, though, and I think every single "animated classic". Trying to BUY them is different, but when I've wanted them for watching purposes etc, I can get them.
Were you trying to buy them? Or just rent? I know on Blockbuster.com some movies like Snow White aren't available for either... but I've seen Pinocchio and others on the rental shelf. And of course, you can always tell them you lost the disc and pay the $20 they charge you if you want to "buy" the DVD
Howard Ashman:
He gave a mermaid her voice, a beast his soul, and Arabs something to complain about Arabian Nights (Unedited) Savages (Uncensored)
If it ain't OTV, it ain't worth anything!
The lady clearly understood me. I said I wanted to RENT the titles and she said that when a title was put back in the vault, blockbuster shipped them back. There seemed to be no confusion on the matter - she didn't think I wanted to buy.
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Rudy Matt - Why would she lie? Why would she have any reason to lose business for Blockbuster?
I understand discs get lost, damaged, or stolen - but 'Snow', 'Pinnoch', 'Make Mine Music', 'Melody Time', 'Oliver', and 'Beauty' were ALL lost/stolen/damaged at the same store? What are the chances of that?
My movie gallery is still renting the 1999 DVD of Mermaid. Still works/looks fine. They never upgraded to the 2006 PE.
The woman acted like I was an uninformed parent (I sound older than 17 on phones) searching out a Disney title with little knowledge on the subject [tell me how many parents are like that *coughFASTPLAYcough*]...she wasn't trying to rush me. I ended the conversation, not her. She was helpful but spoke down to me. I don't believe she was just feeding my a story to get me off the phone.
Tell me how many discs got true grand make-overs after coming out of the vault? Sword and the Stone got the same disc menu, dropped the bonus feature of a full episode f Walt Disney Presents from the Gold Collection version in favor of Merlin’s Magical Academy game, and the and transfer is identical to the older release. WHOA! So glad this game out of the vault! ... not.
In fact, many serious Disney aficionados recommend the older Gold Collections, instead. In multiple cases the "special editions", "__ anniversary editions", etc. lose bonus features, and have new transfers that bleach the colors and are far less true to the original print than the older DVD.
No, in more cases than not, a Disney buff would tell you the re-prints are not as close in color to the original and have less or exactly the same bonus features. If there's more, it's usually some stupid game for toddlers. Only the platinum editions get extra features, and to make room they eliminate old, better features. The new transfers are hideous. If you think the coloring on Peter Pan's platinum edition are better than the gold collection, you're blind.
The vault policy is not what's getting Disney to re-release titles. It's merely consumer demand. Which titles have gotten PEs? Only the most famous of famous - 'Beauty', 'Lion', 'Snow', and now 'Pinocch'. What do the other titles get? Oh yeah, a new 'Oliver' DVD that includes nothing more than re-made case art and a new game. Not even on Blu-Ray in the year 2009. Just another double-dip DVD. And that was a vaulted title. Disney chooses which titles to give the best re-releases to very methodically - only the best sellers get them. There'll be two 'Snow' PEs before several dozen other titles even get one. It's all about $. 'Rescuers' don't make them that much $ and 'Black Cauldron' is even worse. It's the movers, shakers, money makers of Disney animation that get star treatment - vaulted or not - and to discerning fans, sometimes these star treatments are downgrades from older DVDs.
And not trying hard enough? I guess between my library's 37 library inter-loan system, three local movie rental stores, NetFlix, and my 31 classmates - not getting Snow on DVD is my failing. Maybe should have checked more libraries or asked more classmates...
Widdi - See, my local movie gallery has a decent (maybe a dozen) vaulted titles on shelves. Not the ones I need, unfortunately, but there all the same. That's why I thought it may have been something imposed in Blockbuster or only certain chains? Perhaps there's a certain fee to avoid the vault you must pay some chains opt out of?
As for NetFlix...it lists 'Pinnoch' as "available 2009" and the other titles as "unavailable". I believe it's in preparation of the upcoming PEs.
Rudy Matt - Again, can't fathom why'd she'd have any reason to lie. I plan to call some other stores in Dubuque and see what they say.
singerguy04 - It very much sounded like she was searching, I could hear key-clicks and she was reading off a long list of other Pinocchio titles until she finally came to "Pinocchio. Disney. 1940."
drfsupercenter - Agreed. Vaulting serves no purpose. Just because a title is vaulted doesn't mean it'll ever get a re-release. And if it does, nowadays it's just with a new game - and usually older, better bonus features are dropped and the transfers stray further away from the original print. If Disney would just make one 'definitive edition' for every new technology format - with a perfect transfer, all previous bonus features from LaserDisc, DVD, and VHS, and add new features, they would have a version no one would have reservations about buying - always available so people could buy it from them any time, not lose them money by going to ebay. Disney would also save by not spending money on constant re-releases and double dips. I cannot see one good thing about vaulting!
I've considered 'losing' some DVDs to get the OOP ones, except for the fact my library puts all their sticks right on the cover art so if I peeled them off, it'd rip, and leaving the on is ugly. As for the rental store - they actually have a clear label with their logo printed multiple times on it they slap right on the DVD itself.
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It's not that I'm not suspicious. I'm going to call more rental stores to see what they say. But I don't believe she'd have any reason to lie or could have gotten her info. that mixed up.
UPDATE: Called the movie gallery in Dubuque, it's on the same road as the Blockbuster. They, too, do not have the DVDs in question. I went to Blockbuster's site to see if they had them for their NetFlix clone DVD-to-door program, no, same titles missing ('Snow', 'Pinnoch', 'Beauty').
I checked blockbuster total access site (blockbuster.com) and they only have the two movie collection for the OLD Parent Trap. Netflix on the other hand, as an "unknown" date for Parent Trap 1961 edition (the Vault Disney one).
So, even movies like the ORIGINAL Parent Trap aren't available for rent.
Disney Channel died when they stopped airing movies with Haley mills (Parent Trap and Pollyanna) and fun adventure movies like Swiss Family Robinson. R.I.P. the REAL Disney Channel. Date of Death: When the shows became teenie bopperish.
In fact, many serious Disney aficionados recommend the older Gold Collections, instead. In multiple cases the "special editions", "__ anniversary editions", etc. lose bonus features, and have new transfers that bleach the colors and are far less true to the original print than the older DVD.
Yep. I refuse to buy the new Sword In the Stone as it's stupid. I have almost all the Gold Classics Collections... even the ones without many bonus features. (That's why I have the PEs - solely for bonus)
I mean, I'd rather have a more faithful transfer than loads of extras any day.
Howard Ashman:
He gave a mermaid her voice, a beast his soul, and Arabs something to complain about Arabian Nights (Unedited) Savages (Uncensored)
If it ain't OTV, it ain't worth anything!
As a former Blockbuster manager, I can tell you that in my store, over 10,000 titles, I ignored the Disney request to send back those movies that were going in the Vault. I just threw the notice away.
Also I used to feature those Disney titles in my Rent One Get One Free promotions.
I never got a letter from Disney, or heard from them at all. I think that those managers who defy the Disney company Should be given raises in pay and be treated like gold!!!
The only way to watch movies - Original Aspect Ratio!!!!
I LOVE my Blu-Ray Disc Player!
dvdjunkie wrote:As a former Blockbuster manager, I can tell you that in my store, over 10,000 titles, I ignored the Disney request to send back those movies that were going in the Vault. I just threw the notice away.
Also I used to feature those Disney titles in my Rent One Get One Free promotions.
I never got a letter from Disney, or heard from them at all. I think that those managers who defy the Disney company Should be given raises in pay and be treated like gold!!!
In fact, many serious Disney aficionados recommend the older Gold Collections, instead. In multiple cases the "special editions", "__ anniversary editions", etc. lose bonus features, and have new transfers that bleach the colors and are far less true to the original print than the older DVD.
Yep. I refuse to buy the new Sword In the Stone as it's stupid. I have almost all the Gold Classics Collections... even the ones without many bonus features. (That's why I have the PEs - solely for bonus)
I mean, I'd rather have a more faithful transfer than loads of extras any day.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as "washed out colors" go -- weren't the colors pumped up for home video in the first releases to begin with, a la Dumbo, only to be color timed to resemble the original prints in the re-release?
It depends on the movie... Most of them just had quick analog restorations (if they had any!) and put on VHS. The GCC DVDs are like, VHS transfers.
Then for the Platinum Editions they had these new "digital restorations" and they brightened the colors way up to an often criticized level... look at Cinderella or Peter Pan for examples of that.
Howard Ashman:
He gave a mermaid her voice, a beast his soul, and Arabs something to complain about Arabian Nights (Unedited) Savages (Uncensored)
If it ain't OTV, it ain't worth anything!
dvdjunkie - So you're confirming Disney does ask movie rental stores (or at least Blockbuster) to send back their DVDs when they go into the vault?
Rudy Matt - Yeah, even some of the Disney old time animators have gone on record to state the PEs are somewhat scandalous - that the restoration on such films as Cindy and Peter are quite removed from the original print and quite blasphemous for Disney to release.
James Bond fans are feeling the same way about the restored Bond DVDs - the same company who's doing the Disney PEs are doing the Bond prints.
All they seem to do is brighten and lighten it. Reds become pinkish, grays become blue. Not true to the original at all.
Neal wrote:Yeah, even some of the Disney old time animators have gone on record to state the PEs are somewhat scandalous - that the restoration on such films as Cindy and Peter are quite removed from the original print and quite blasphemous for Disney to release. [...] All they seem to do is brighten and lighten it. Reds become pinkish, grays become blue. Not true to the original at all.
I don't know... Maybe it's just me, but those films look fine to me, on my Platinum Edition DVD's.
Maybe I'm seeing it differently because the only other version I know is a copied VHS from 15 years ago?
But like I said: I've never seen the previous DVD releases, and judged on its own merits (not comparing them to previous releases), I still think the films look fine. It's not like it's horrible and you can't make out what goes on on the screen...
Oh, I agree. If you haven't seen earlier versions, you won't know the difference. You'll still think the drawings are superb, characters wonderful, story engrossing. You won't be aware of how blurry/sharp, light/dark the images are. For purists, however, they want the true print - the way it was animated. In that regard, I am a purist. I won't boycott the film because of the new transfer, but I certainly want the true transfer more.
In speaking of ethics - Disney is lying when they call the new PEs the truest of transfers when they're not. But since when have businesses been required to be honest?
Well, I do consider myself a movie 'buff', but I don't consider myself a 'purist'. I don't get the whole BlueRay hype either...
Neal wrote:In speaking of ethics - Disney is lying when they call the new PEs the truest of transfers when they're not. But since when have businesses been required to be honest?
Well, that's indeed very dishonest. But then again, the Disney Company has never been known for its honest practices, that's right...
In one screen cap, I can see Tinker Bell's glow. In one, I can barely see it. What's the original intent -- for Tinker Bell to shine with an inner light and have an aura, or for her to have a small aura and natural flesh tones?
Just because one is different doesn't mean the original DVD was correct, or incorrect, nor does one example condemn or confirm the quality of the whole. The Blu-Ray of Sleeping Beauty is miles above the last Special Edition DVD, for instance, which doesn't mean all new releases are, but IN GENERAL, Disney tends to improve from one generation (and media formats) to the next for their classic releases, and one can only hope that by recycling their features, they improve each time out -- by NOT recycling we're stuck with the versions of Hunchback, Rescuers DU, The Black Cauldron, and Hercules that we have, to name but a few.
