Mulan (Live-Action)

[Farerb]

This trailer was better than the teaser overall. It had better editing and flow, revealed the basic storyline and introduced new characrers. I love the instrumental version of "Reflection" they keep using. I wish there was a full version of it somewhere but probably only a snippet was created for promotional use.

I really missed the songs; the use of "Reflection" as background music, the "we're going to make men out of every single one of you" and "I will bring honor to us all" lines didn't help. When the recruits were training, I was half-expecting them to break into song.

I didn't like how they humiliated Mulan's father in public. They needlessly robbed him of his dignity and made the scene more schmaltzy. The existence of the sister seems completely superfluous and inconsequential. I don't get why they added fantastical elements if they are supposedly going for a more realistic, gritty war story. A gigantic, multi-colored phoenix following Mulan around looks weird and out of place. The witch is such a caricature. I'm surprised she didn't start cackling and yelling "I'm melting!". Not to mention, having a female villain whether as a sidekick or the big bad, takes away from the themes of toxic masculinity and suffocating patriarchal rule that Shan Yu Bori Khan represents.

The acting is quite hammy all around. I'm not sure if it's due to the language barrier or if they were instructed to act like that. In terms of production values, it looks kinda cheap. I was expecting more from a visual standpoint. It doesn't hold a candle to Chinese epics like House of Flying Daggers or Hero.

In summation, it looks meh like pretty much every Disney remake so far.

I agree.

[Disney's Divinity]

I don't get why they added fantastical elements if they are supposedly going for a more realistic, gritty war story. A gigantic, multi-colored phoenix following Mulan around looks weird and out of place. The witch is such a caricature. I'm surprised she didn't start cackling and yelling "I'm melting!". Not to mention, having a female villain whether as a sidekick or the big bad, takes away from the themes of toxic masculinity and suffocating patriarchal rule that Shan Yu Bori Khan represents.

Well, you know Disney, Sotiris. None of their arguments (whether it's to be closer to the original tale, or be more dramatic, or make a more coherent story) for deleting the songs and miscellaneous characters has to actually make sense in reality. They just have to sound good enough to convince people not to be mad and dish out money to see it first.

[JeanGreyForever]

By the way, I know there were rumors about the phoenix, but I don't remember what they said. Is the phoenix supposed to replace Mushu in this version?

I don't think it'll be quite as cut and dry as that especially since Mushu was clearly comic relief and that doesn't seem to be the function of the phoenix. The segment of the trailer where Mulan's father describes the phoenix and how it acts as a guardian of the Emperor seems to connect with Mulan's actions in this film so it seems more like Mulan while be the phoenix personified in human form. Not that she will actually transform into a phoenix, but that she will be the human equivalent, the same way many people theorized that Mulan represented the spirit of the Great Stone Dragon in the animated film.

I didn't like how they humiliated Mulan's father in public. They needlessly robbed him of his dignity and made the scene more schmaltzy. The existence of the sister seems completely superfluous and inconsequential. I don't get why they added fantastical elements if they are supposedly going for a more realistic, gritty war story. A gigantic, multi-colored phoenix following Mulan around looks weird and out of place. The witch is such a caricature. I'm surprised she didn't start cackling and yelling "I'm melting!". Not to mention, having a female villain whether as a sidekick or the big bad, takes away from the themes of toxic masculinity and suffocating patriarchal rule that Shan Yu Bori Khan represents.

The acting is quite hammy all around.

I agree about the sister. Don't see the point for the character especially since it doesn't look like she'll have any major importance or function beyond just being there in the background. She was probably just added because Disney thought it would look good for their feminist heroine to have a little sister who will look up to her and emulate her. Chinese stories always tend to have a lot of mythological elements so I don't have a problem with the supernatural elements. Even in the animated film, people didn't complain that Mushu a dragon existed, the issue was that his personality and humor clashed tonally with the rest of the film. As many Chinese viewers said at the time, they didn't know that ancient Chinese dragons could speak "Ebonic" and felt he didn't feel like a Chinese dragon. A few others criticized that Disney is so used to the European definition of dragons as giant, fire-breathing creatures that they ignored the fact that not only do Chinese dragons come in all shapes and sizes but many also have water powers instead of fire ones and Mushu should have been water-based to connect to Mulan's Reflection song and especially since her little garden with the pond and magnolia blossom tree is one of the few places she feels safest.

I think a rewatch of the animated Mulan is in order because the patriarchal themes never came from Shan Yu. Clearly it was the Chinese culture that Mulan was born into that suppressed her and other women. In fact, the Huns historically had many female soldiers who fought alongside the men and they were far more advanced when it comes to gender dynamics. Hence, why when Shan Yu finds out that Mulan, a woman, is the soldier from the mountains who bested him, he doesn't recoil in disgust or disbelief that it was a woman. A lot of people have pointed out that this is one of the few positive traits about Shan Yu actually which they like. And much of the animated Huns were based on the Mongols which I think Boris Khan is supposed to represent. I'm pretty sure their views on gender roles were also were more progressive than China's ( as well as much of the rest of the ancient world's) at the time so a woman leading wouldn't be that out of place. Also we don't know the function of the witch here. Is she the one enabling Boris Khan for her own gain or is she in fact enslaved and forced to work with him? The falcon from the original is clearly the sidekick of Shan Yu so has she somehow been imprisoned or magically enthralled in a captive state? She could very well reach some solidarity with Mulan especially since the trailer shows that she learns her identity but doesn't expose her. Maybe at the end, the witch will break away and help defeat Boris Khan.

Essentially, the patriarchy that Mulan faces isn't supposed to come from the enemy faction but from her own culture. That's always been such a standard trope of Disney's Mulan that I'm surprised you feel the live-action film would try to make it so that the big bad patriarchy is represented by the main villains instead. They're supposed to be beyond that and the internal struggle of Mulan is because of the society she grew up in. A major complaint about the original was that Mulan never had a personal connection to the villain or really any screentime together (this same criticism was also directed to Pocahontas, Hercules, and Tiana with their respective villains) so the witch might have been added to create some sort of connection.

Still an improvement over Emma Watson lol.

Well, you know Disney, Sotiris. None of their arguments (whether it's to be closer to the original tale, or be more dramatic, or make a more coherent story) for deleting the songs and miscellaneous characters has to actually make sense in reality. They just have to sound good enough to convince people not to be mad and dish out money to see it first.

Your passive aggressive statements were so old long ago. If you feel the need to call people out, have the gall to directly name them and respond to them rather than this cowardly manner you'r e so accustomed to. The real reason you've blocked so many people on here isn't just because you couldn't deal with them calling you out on your tone-deaf comments and blatant racism, but mainly because you realized it can enable your behavior here since you can antagonize other posters without having to deal with them directly. The jig is up though. Consider yourself reported.

[Sotiris]

Essentially, the patriarchy that Mulan faces isn't supposed to come from the enemy faction but from her own culture. That's always been such a standard trope of Disney's Mulan that I'm surprised you feel the live-action film would try to make it so that the big bad patriarchy is represented by the main villains instead. They're supposed to be beyond that and the internal struggle of Mulan is because of the society she grew up in.

I'm aware of that. I meant that Mulan having to defeat a male villain was symbolic of her defeating patriarchy. The aggressive and violent traits of Shan Yu are emblematic of men as a class and come into stark contrast to Mulan's intelligence and compassion, and by throwing a female villain in the mix, that contrast and its underlying social commentary gets diluted.

[JeanGreyForever]

Essentially, the patriarchy that Mulan faces isn't supposed to come from the enemy faction but from her own culture. That's always been such a standard trope of Disney's Mulan that I'm surprised you feel the live-action film would try to make it so that the big bad patriarchy is represented by the main villains instead. They're supposed to be beyond that and the internal struggle of Mulan is because of the society she grew up in.

I'm aware of that. I meant that Mulan having to defeat a male villain was symbolic of her defeating patriarchy. The aggressive and violent traits of Shan Yu are emblematic of men as a class and come into stark contrast to Mulan's intelligence and compassion, and by throwing a female villain in the mix, that contrast and its underlying social commentary gets diluted.

Shan Yu still exists in this film in the form of Boris Khan though. And although he was a man, I never saw Mulan's defeat of him as a win against patriarchy because that's never what Shan Yu stood for. He was more a force of nature concerned with only power and proving himself against what he felt was an affront against him (the Emperor building a wall). I suppose one could codify that as more masculine energy but I don't really believe that, especially not when Disney created even better villains with similar motives like Ursula and Maleficent who also craved power and full control over what they considered their dominions.

Mulan proving herself against Chi Fu from her actions and winning the Emperor's respect would be a more appropriate example as a blow against the patriarchy.

However, I'm very interested if there were other people who read Mulan's victory against Shan Yu in the original as a blow against the patriarchy. Especially when Shan Yu was one of the few people in the movie who never underestimated Mulan for her gender.

[Farerb]

I think the main point is that it takes away from Mulan fighting this war cause there's already another woman fighting the war, so if she can why not Mulan?

[D82]

By the way, I know there were rumors about the phoenix, but I don't remember what they said. Is the phoenix supposed to replace Mushu in this version?

I don't think it'll be quite as cut and dry as that especially since Mushu was clearly comic relief and that doesn't seem to be the function of the phoenix. The segment of the trailer where Mulan's father describes the phoenix and how it acts as a guardian of the Emperor seems to connect with Mulan's actions in this film so it seems more like Mulan while be the phoenix personified in human form. Not that she will actually transform into a phoenix, but that she will be the human equivalent, the same way many people theorized that Mulan represented the spirit of the Great Stone Dragon in the animated film.

Thanks for the explanation. Yes, when Mulan's father says that to her, I also thought the phoenix was meant to be her. But then they showed an image of a real phoenix, so I was confused. Though I guess that could be part of a dream sequence or the imagination of someone if Mulan indeed symbolizes the phoenix and it's not a real character. By the way, I had never heard that theory about Mulan and the spirit of the Great Stone Dragon, why do they think she represents it?

[JeanGreyForever]

I think the main point is that it takes away from Mulan fighting this war cause there's already another woman fighting the war, so if she can why not Mulan?

Because unlike the witch, Mulan is not magical. She's a regular human being without any powers to aid her so all she has to rely on are her own physical and mental strength and fortitude. It's Mulan's spirit and willpower that drives her forward in the film and that makes all the difference in the world.

Also as pointed out, just because China was patriarchal and wouldn't let women fight, doesn't mean that some of their enemies would automatically adopt the same mentality.

I don't think it'll be quite as cut and dry as that especially since Mushu was clearly comic relief and that doesn't seem to be the function of the phoenix. The segment of the trailer where Mulan's father describes the phoenix and how it acts as a guardian of the Emperor seems to connect with Mulan's actions in this film so it seems more like Mulan while be the phoenix personified in human form. Not that she will actually transform into a phoenix, but that she will be the human equivalent, the same way many people theorized that Mulan represented the spirit of the Great Stone Dragon in the animated film.

Thanks for the explanation. Yes, when Mulan's father says that to her, I also thought the phoenix was meant to be her. But then they showed an image of a real phoenix, so I was confused. Though I guess that could be part of a dream sequence or the imagination of someone if Mulan indeed symbolizes the phoenix and it's not a real character. By the way, I had never heard that theory about Mulan and the spirit of the Great Stone Dragon, why do they think she represents it?

A dream sequence could be it, like how in the alternate opening for Mulan she imagines herself as a great warrior. Also maybe as the human avatar of the mythical Phoenix, her actions or choices allow her to summon the Phoenix in a moment of great need especially to balance things out against the power of the witch. Keep in mind that in Chinese culture, the Emperor was considered a god so it makes sense that his right-hand warrior or guardian, in this case the hero of China, would similarly be supernaturally connected to a higher power.

https://real-faker.tumblr.com/post/9356 ... an-decides
The Great Stone Dragon theory was pretty popular and circulated around the Internet a few years back. Basically the idea is that the ancestors send Mushu to wake up the Great Stone Dragon to help assist Mulan and save the family's honor but the statue is destroyed in the process and we never encounter this spirit at all later in the film. The idea is that Mulan is the physical embodiment of the Great Stone Dragon so this is why Mushu fails to awaken him because he had already awoken in the form of Mulan and her decision to take her father's place. Some of the imagery in the scene of Mulan's decision also shows some dragons which could further serve as evidence for this.

[D82]

Also maybe as the human avatar of the mythical Phoenix, her actions or choices allow her to summon the Phoenix in a moment of great need especially to balance things out against the power of the witch. Keep in mind that in Chinese culture, the Emperor was considered a god so it makes sense that his right-hand warrior or guardian, in this case the hero of China, would similarly be supernaturally connected to a higher power.

That's seems possible too.

https://real-faker.tumblr.com/post/9356 ... an-decides
The Great Stone Dragon theory was pretty popular and circulated around the Internet a few years back. Basically the idea is that the ancestors send Mushu to wake up the Great Stone Dragon to help assist Mulan and save the family's honor but the statue is destroyed in the process and we never encounter this spirit at all later in the film. The idea is that Mulan is the physical embodiment of the Great Stone Dragon so this is why Mushu fails to awaken him because he had already awoken in the form of Mulan and her decision to take her father's place. Some of the imagery in the scene of Mulan's decision also shows some dragons which could further serve as evidence for this.

Oh, wow. That's an interesting theory and it actually makes some sense. Who knows, maybe it's not a coincidence and the filmmakers really planned it that way.

[Disney's Divinity]

I think the main point is that it takes away from Mulan fighting this war cause there's already another woman fighting the war, so if she can why not Mulan?

I have to say that the witch is much different than I imagined. I thought she was going to be the main antagonist, not some subordinate. Even the way she's dressed / acted in the trailer is unimpressive. But to the larger point you and Sotiris are making, the fact that Mulan (dressed as a man because women aren't allowed to fight by China) is fighting a female villain who is allowed to fight openly as a woman (making her country less oppressive than Mulan's, apparently) in order to uphold the misogynist Empire from which Mulan comes is definitely....

[Clindor]

That wouldn't be too wrong with Alice and Maleficent (coincidentally nothing like their original films)--but Aladdin? That's just absurd. I actually think it improves on that film in several ways.

I don't know.. Maybe you are absurd.

- The guy who plays Aladdin is TERRIBLE at acting. He's bad at it. He is off in most of the lines he delivers. Everything he says comes out so flat and feels like he is reading a line from a script. He can't sing on key either. Nor does he know how to put interpretation in the songs. Every time he had to look at a green screen, he has a blank face, and the camera dares to focus on it every time.
- Jafar: … … … Is there any need for me to say what already EVERYBODY said about this new Jafar? ^^' To say the least, 1992's Jafar: undeniably one of the coolest villains in Disney history now is just some RANDOM guy from the streets with no presence whatsoever. Not intimidating in a SINGLE way. You have to try hard to find someone THAT underwhelming...
- The jokes are painly and UNFUNNY. The comedy and dialogue are just terrible! For a movie remaking something that was originally so cool, that's so one of the biggest betrayal to its animated counterpart. None of the awkward humor is working for me.
- The minor modifications in the plot to what was already good makes it worse and generate a whole bunch of plot holes.
- The whole cast is auto-tune while singing. Very nice for a musical. (At least, with this non-musical only instrumental version of Mulan, we won't have to gnash your teeth.)
- It's trying to be a Bollywood musical. But it's just half-ass. The energy for 'Prince Ali' sequence is so low, while the animated film had so much life, so much energy! This one is draining the life from you...
- The "climax" is BEYOND ridiculous and pretty laughable! Not comment.

It may not be the bottom of the barrel.. but so WHAT?? It is still PRETTY bad.
I guess the reason why it turned out to be a commercial (not critical) success is because going in, everybody already thought it was going to be not great judging from the trailers, so no disappointment happened. And because this movie has been released in a year of unoriginal movies from Disney and properties Disney brought and other studios of Hollywood (only sequels and remakes), it helped. The first 1992 movie is awesome. And if it ain't broken, don't fix it.

On the other hand, I still believe to this day Mulan feels like one of the definitive better attempt of all those offensive unnecessary remakes by being it's own thing. Only time will confirm.

Jasmine is actually a good character

No.. The actress is good trying to do whatever she can with the little she has. The character is LAME, and poorly written. She does NOT stand up to the original Jasmine. Here they turned her into a shallow character! There is something higher ironical in the fact she is singing that awfully forgettable girl power song too modern to fit with the rest of the music, yelling “I won't be silent! I won't be silent! I WILL BE HEARD!!” for 3 minutes, and than literally shutting the f*ck up in the scene right after floating like a zombie, with no other mention made to that scene for the rest of the action sequences. Which results in something highly hypocritical in the way Disney defends feminism cause of course they don't have the balls to change the story so inevitably her short use of diplomacy and talk about politics won't save the day.

They want to give you the impression you saw something clever or adult, but it's just not.

Genie is less annoying

Are you KIDDING me ??
I believe you are going to make yourself a lot of enemies on the Internet if you start blaspheming about Robin Williams
Despite the fact of Robin Williams being a genius of comedy and showing in this film he was in his career peak when he made Aladdin (which is not the case with Will Smith): I thought Will Smith was just dying in this role... And he was million times too often OBNOXIOUS as a character: I hate the was he moves, always a little wonky, and he's suddenly starting close up for no reason. It just doesn't work There's a lot of scenes where I'm not even certain if he is doing a joke or not: how is that supposed to feel not annoying?? His weird and ugly CG body is unbearable to watch with this head that obviously doesn't belong to this body and it just makes me feel uncomfortable. His relation with Aladdin seems sometimes off while I can't remember one scene when it happened in the original. That is called a DOWNGRADE, not an upgrade.

(Btw, thank you Disney for removing Mushu in 2020 Mulan, for I don't dare to imagine what would have been done to this character otherwise.)

the Sultan isn't a complete joke.

I love the way the Sultan was in the 2D animation, and you are terrible!

...

Your mom too.

[Clindor]

- Is it Mulan even that much of a cherished Disney movie?

Enough for Disney to think about re-making it, apparently.

And also they did the same thing with Pete's Dragon.
So your argument is pretty weak for that matter.

[Farerb]

Enough for Disney to think about re-making it, apparently.

And also they did the same thing with Pete's Dragon.
So your argument is pretty weak for that matter.

I'd say Mulan is probably the most popular film between Pocahontas and Bolt and probably more than some Revival films. That's at least the impression I got from the internet.

[JeanGreyForever]

And also they did the same thing with Pete's Dragon.
So your argument is pretty weak for that matter.

I'd say Mulan is probably the most popular film between Pocahontas and Bolt and probably more than some Revival films. That's at least the impression I got from the internet.

Eh, I wouldn't go that far. It's very popular amongst young millennials, particularly ones from America. However, outside of that age group it isn't really well remembered or considered all that great. I remember a Disney cast member who played Pocahontas and Mulan in the parks said that everyone knew who Pocahontas was but only young people recognized Mulan and most everyone else, especially older park goers, thought she was a random "geisha" walking around. Mulan never became part of the mainstream public consciousness the way the The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, The Lion King, and Pocahontas did.

It also has stiff competition internationally. In Europe, Pocahontas and Hunchback are more popular. In the East, China and Japan especially, Lilo & Stitch is hugely popular to this day even though Stitch mania faded in the US. Mulan also doesn't have a market in Japan, one of the biggest Disney consumers (I think #2 or #3 worldwide), to the point that most Japanese people don't even know about Disney's Mulan (or at least they like to act as if they don't know it).

Frankly after Pocahontas, Disney films are mostly not remembered or considered classics in the sense that the Walt-era films are until you get to Tangled with Lilo & Stitch as a minimal exception. I wouldn't call Bolt popular or well-known at all beyond the people who grew up with it. TPATF a bit more because of the DP franchise but the film isn't even well-regarded here in the US and outside of the US, it's even less known to the point that it was the least watched DP film in the UK and gets little to no marketing internationally.

[Farerb]

I know that you like Pocahontas, but it is really not in the same level of success as the earlier four Renaissance. Not then and definitely not now. I only say what I see on the internet and the way people talk about Mulan, they like it almost as much as the fab four, probably some like it more. You know someone had to take those Millennials to see the film so their parents are also familiar with Mulan.
The only film that might be more popular is Lilo & Stitch, but that doesn't seem so to me.

[JeanGreyForever]

I know that you like Pocahontas, but it is really not in the same level of success as the earlier four Renaissance. Not then and definitely not now. I only say what I see on the internet and the way people talk about Mulan, they like it almost as much as the fab four, probably some like it more. You know someone had to take those Millennials to see the film so their parents are also familiar with Mulan.
The only film that might be more popular is Lilo & Stitch, but that doesn't seem so to me.

I didn't say that about Pocahontas because I like it otherwise I would have mentioned Hunchback as well since I love that film even more but I'm not deluded enough to think it's nearly as iconic. People give Pocahontas a bad rep but in fact it's way better known than most people would like to accept. If you look at the top ten best selling VHS of all time, take a look at what film makes the list.
https://www.video2dvdtransfers.co.uk/bl ... vhs-tapes/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... ted_States

If you look at the full wiki list, it even beats arguably more popular classics like Cinderella, The Little Mermaid, Bambi, and 101 Dalmatians (the second highest grossing Disney animated film of all time after Snow White). People like to say that they watched Pocahontas in theaters, were disappointed and never gave it another look, but you don't become the 9th highest grossing VHS tape of all time with anecdotes like that being true. Clearly there very much was an audience for this film for it to sell as well as it did on home video, rivaling the rest of the Big Four (and even greatly exceeding The Little Mermaid which barely makes the list). For that to have occurred, people didn't just ignore it or go out of their way to snub it afterwards. I know Disney considers it a "disappointment" now, but financially it was still the fifth highest grossing film of the year (so was Hunchback one year later btw. Sorry, I have to include my Hunchback plug lol) and if you look at the top ten grossing WDAS animated films from the 90s AND the 2000s, Pocahontas is very much present on that list alongside Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, The Lion King, Hunchback, Tarzan, Tangled, etc. There was an infographic I posted not too long ago here illustrating that.

And Disney clearly didn't feel it was even that much of a disappointment for them to pretend it didn't even exist because they had other projects planned for it as far back as the 90s. When they were setting up The Lion King for Broadway, the higher ups were already talking about making Pocahontas their third Broadway stage show as I read in an article once. Somewhere along the way those plans were scrapped and Aida took its place instead (I've heard rumors that Disney felt it would be incredibly difficult to cast so many Native American actors in the all the different parts since there aren't that many in Broadway so this was one reason it was replaced with Aida. They knew that there would be a lot of controversy with this film especially if white actors played Native Americans. Aida was mostly safe from this because there was no shortage of black performers to play the Nubians and for the Egyptians, they could contrast them with white actors. Even in today's day and age, we have high-budget Hollywood films where white actors play Egyptians even if there's more criticism now so clearly that wasn't an issue in the late 90s). I'm assuming the only reason Disney wouldn't try and commercialize this film as a live-action feature is because they know that this film would be under extreme scrutiny and it's better to avoid that can of worms altogether.

When Let It Go became a world-wide phenomenon, it was discussed that this was the first time a Disney song had reached such an apex of popularity since Colors of the Wind because Colors of the Wind was the last Disney song to constantly get the same amount of airplay. Not even Tarzan's You'll Be in My Heart, which was the last Disney Oscar winner for best song since Colors of the Wind and before Let It Go, was given that much attention and media hype. When people mention famous or favorite Disney songs, Colors of the Wind always comes up (Kristen Bell and Idina Menzel mentioned it just recently in a Frozen 2 interview alongside other Disney classic songs that nobody would argue the popularity of from films like The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, etc.) In the Aladdin Broadway musical, when Genie is riffing on classic Disney numbers from the 90s, Colors of the Wind is one of the chosen songs. It was picked because Disney knew that audiences would recognize the song and the film it came from like Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, and Lion King, whereas they clearly didn't feel that songs from Hunchback, Hercules, Mulan, etc. would be as instantly recognizable.

Another thing to keep in mind, besides the fact that Pocahontas is still today the widest attended movie premiere in history and had a huge and lucrative marketing campaign rivaling that of The Lion King and the other Disney movies before it (the last Disney movie to get this treatment before Frozen was Hercules), is the fact that for Disney, an American company, Pocahontas is a very American symbol. Kids are taught about her in school at a young age so virtually every American knows her name. There's a reason that when Donald Trump wants to target Elizabeth Warren or Native Americans in general, the only name that comes to mind is Pocahontas because that's the one Native American figure virtually everybody knows. So she's already an iconic character like Snow White, Cinderella, or Tarzan in the sense that with or without the Disney movie, everybody has heard of her. And the fact that Pocahontas was such a high-profile film, regardless of how much people like it today or not, adds to this. In my high school history class, when we learned about Pocahontas, pretty much everybody could relate to her, not from what they may or not remember from reading about her in their history textbook since elementary school, but from the Disney movie. I remember various girls got really upset when they learned that Pocahontas married John Rolfe in real life and all of them remarked "but what about John Smith?" And another good portion of the class was pretty smug because they had seen Pocahontas II: Journey to a New World so they felt smart just for knowing who Pocahontas had ended up with. Disney gets the blame for the American myth of the Pocahontas and John Smith romance a lot as well as turning her into a princess, but there were plays about their love story that existed more than one hundred years ago. And in the Lennox princess figurine collection, Pocahontas and John Smith both were there alongside other fairy tale and historical royal figures and this was completely without the Disney connection. Pocahontas being a Disney Princess certainly helped raise her exposure and I remember reading the stats of someone who worked in the Disney Store during the early 2000s when the franchise came out and according to him, Pocahontas sold more dolls than Mulan (although both were dead last compared to the rest of the classic princesses).

And beyond America, Pocahontas is vastly popular in many different countries. I've read many anecdotes from our European friends on this forum about how in their country, Pocahontas is considered to be on the same level as the Big Four (to the point that one user described it as the Big Five) or at least as highly liked and well-remembered. On TV Tropes, there's a whole listing for Pocahontas on the fact that it's much better regarded in Europe than in America. I don't know if that's because Pocahontas was connected to England because I have no idea if they teach her in school to British children (for example, one of my British professors told me that in Britain they gloss over the American Revolution and basically act as though one day the 13 colonies decided they wanted to become separate and Britain was fine with it) but I think the film in general has an appeal to Europeans because of the bittersweet ending which is very European in nature. This and the visuals and music in general, not to mention the Romeo and Juliet style plot, would all be better regarded in Europe than in a country like the US which prefers more broad humor in their films (both animated and live-action) and frankly cares more for zippy scenes with endless action and funny zingers being constantly said by all the characters because if there's even one slow moment with emotion or a pause, that's enough to put the audience to sleep. Keep in mind that Part of Your World was nearly cut for this reason and we actually did lose If I Never Knew You to this. Going back to England though, I may not be aware of how much children there are aware of Pocahontas as a historical figure, but I do know the film is popular enough there. I posted a study in one of the Disney Princess threads here a while back which analyzed the Disney Princess films and how many people had watched or not watched them. Snow White was the clear #1 by a wide margin while Aladdin was #2 and followed closely by Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty both. Next came Beauty and the Beast, then Frozen, and then The Little Mermaid. Not that far below The Little Mermaid was Pocahontas. It beat Tangled and Brave by a substantial number of viewers and completely swept aside Mulan, Moana, and The Princess and the Frog. So Pocahontas clearly has been seen by more British people at least and doesn't rank that far below the genuine Disney classics that everybody knows and have clearly entered the public consciousness.

Also from what I've seen of Japan and their merchandise, they're much warmer to Pocahontas. It's not an instant favorite like the Walt classics, the Big Four, Stitch, Tangled, or Frozen, but they don't outright ignore it either and they absolutely adore Meeko! From what I've seen in the Middle East and their Disney Channel, Pocahontas is a pretty popular film and character and she gets promoted alongside the classic six Disney Princesses and Rapunzel a lot, moreso than the other "princesses."

The Internet and social media is mostly dominated by young people. It's the same reason that if you're into American politics, you'll notice that on social media, everybody is lambasting Joe Biden as the Democratic nominee and thinks he is unfit for service. Based on the Internet alone, one would assume that Biden must have marginal support yet he's the top contender nationwide because like it or not, the whole country/world is not represented by people on the Internet and there are many other viewpoints and perspectives out there that do not belong to millennials and younger. Hence the "ok boomer" meme.

Parents taking their kids to a movie theater doesn't mean they remember or care about the movie years from now. My mom falls asleep during Disney movies that she gets bored in and probably couldn't remember most of what she did see the very next day, and certainly years later, she's not going to remember the name of that same movie. That's true for a lot of American soccer moms and soccer dads who use these films as babysitting fodder to put on the TV to keep their kids occupied so they can get a moment to breathe for themselves. I was just reading a blog about Disney movie reviews and the writer mentioned that his mom was not a fan of Disney movies but she remembers Mulan as that "one movie with Eddie Murphy." Mulan also doesn't have nearly the same amount of exposure in the Disney Parks either which is another outlet for typical American and non-American families exposed to Disney. Pocahontas at least, beyond making regular appearances in the Animal Kingdom, has major parts in California Adventure's World of Color and the Magic Kingdom's Fantasmic. She also very nearly got a ride in Disneyland unlike Mulan who I've never heard of Disney even considering giving an attraction (the same goes for Hunchback and Hercules, unlike you count the stage shows and parades). This not including the former shows that Pocahontas had in the Disney Parks not to mention she got her very own Disney on Ice show back in the 90s. Very few Disney films get their own Disney on Ice show dedicated entirely to them and not a wide selection of films.

[Farerb]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... ted_States

How is Beauty and the Beast their most sold animated classic on Blu-ray and they haven't released it on UHD yet?

[DisneyFan97]

This movie looks super AWESOME ! I am really hyped ! This going to be something SPECIAL i think.

[Disney's Divinity]

I don't know.. Maybe you are absurd.

Coming from someone who thought Frozen II should be an Ode to Hans, I'll take that as a compliment.

On the other hand, I still believe to this day Mulan feels like one of the definitive better attempt of all those offensive unnecessary remakes by being it's own thing. Only time will confirm.

You clearly didn't feel that way about Maleficent, another attempt to be "its own thing," so I wouldn't get your hopes up. The trailer alone doesn't make me feel like this will be another The Jungle Book in that way.

Jasmine is actually a good character

No..

Yes! But I'm not going to argue over the rest, least of all in caps, because I've already said I don't see it as equal to the original film--although not as far below as most re-makes have been--only better in certain ways. Whereas most of those re-makes that have taken an original take are much worse.

I'd say Mulan is probably the most popular film between Pocahontas and Bolt and probably more than some Revival films. That's at least the impression I got from the internet.

I've always thought that was the case, long before this forum. At least where I'm from, back when the films were being released, most of the interest in Disney died down during Pocahontas, Hunchback, etc., but people actually liked Mulan. And the re-make of Hunchback sounds like it's going to be closer to its animated film than Mulan is, which is... Well, that's quite the choice.

And also they did the same thing with Pete's Dragon.
So your argument is pretty weak for that matter.

I'm sure Disney has higher aspirations for Mulan than Pete's Dragon (or Dumbo, for example), and I'm also sure you know that and are just arguing for arguing's sake at this point. Mulan's budget is 300+ million; Pete's Dragon's was 65 million. Clearly they thought the original was beloved enough to form the basis for a lucrative live-action franchise. Perhaps cutting the songs was long-term thinking on Disney's part--to avoid needing a new soundtrack made for Mulan II.

[JeanGreyForever]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... ted_States

How is Beauty and the Beast their most sold animated classic on Blu-ray and they haven't released it on UHD yet?

I mean, they haven't released Snow White either which is after Beauty and the Beast. And Frozen, which was ahead of Beauty and the Beast, just got a release that wasn't marketed at all and was released in a wave with other titles.

Aren't we still expecting a March release for BATB in 4K? It should be coming soon enough.