DisneyEra wrote:
And you know why this is? Because it is "Cheaper" to do projects on Disney Channel than invest $100mil on new animated features! Plus they make huge profit while saving $$ in the process! After Hanna Montana & HSM burned themselves out, replacement shows were easy to fill in. Like I said before: Greed
Like I said, Bob Iger is a bastard! I think it's time we create an angry mob and force Bob Iger out of the Disney Company for good. No good deed goes unpunished!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPNB4VWeJrM[/youtube]
Okay, TsWade2, I have a message for you. And this isn't a hate message to you. I'm just gonna talk to you as fair as possible. You are acting like a 5-year-old who doesn't get his/her way if he/she didn't get ice cream or anything. That's what you act like if there is no hand-drawn film from Disney. Seriously, just keep yourself calm! I mean, if you don't like Disney because of no hand-drawn films, I can understand, but you to go on a rampage, acting like a 5-year-old, and put overused ridiculous YT video reactions are just teaching you that you are not mature. So please, grow up and calm down okay? Thank you.
I only hope the hand-drawn portion of the animation studios gets used for completely hand drawn animated films and not exclusively the hybrid films (if there any upcoming ones). Hell, I just hope for the best of the medium altogether.
Stay classy, Disney. Disney stock is trading at an all-time high, Iger is receiving obscene compensation packages, Disney keeps buying billion dollar companies but it's the wages of these few artists that need to be cut.
Steve Hulett wrote:Surviving hand-drawn animators have been called to meetings to discuss wage cuts and/or buyouts. Guess we'll wait to see where the downsizing ends.
Tom Bancroft wrote:Also still safe because they are tied up on actual "in production" projects: Randy Haycock, Dale Baer, and clean up lead Rachel Bibb.
When visiting with one of the lead animators that worked on that movie when I was visiting the studio last June (I won't say who, I don't want Lasseter to oust him) he said he personally felt Pooh got moved so that it would not make a huge return with it being made on such a small budget- roughly $30M. Because that would show shareholders how successful 2D animation can be and the pendulum swing of going from CGI to traditional could begin.
Former Disney animator Tom Bancroft posted this journal entry about the recent layoffs. Of particular note is this paragraph:
Tom Bancroft wrote:Has power gone to John Lassiter's head? Is he an evil businessman now? Not evil, that's for sure. More business minded than ever before, yes, he has to be. Its part of his job. It was when he was just creative head of Pixar, but it could take a back seat a bit in that job (there were other "Roy's" that could do that heavy lifting). Now, he has MUCH more on his shoulders and he's spread very thin. As far as the 2D animators that just got laid off? He was the guy that KEPT them there for the past couple years when they (largely) had very little to do. They were making money for YEARS and not doing much. Ask them, they will tell you the same thing. Its not what they wanted, and they have been fighting to get some 2D projects going the whole time. But don't think that any other studio/ studio head would have kept about 20 highly paid (based on years of service and compared to some of the younger CG guys for sure) for years without an actual production for them to work on! No way. Only at Disney and only under John's eye/hand. They were his friends and he wanted them there. At least until the Board couldn't stand the bleeding ink on the stocks, etc. I don't know the whole story, few do, but this is how these things work. Believe me, Lassiter is not a saint, but he knows talent and values good people.
As you can see, if we really want to point fingers at anybody, it's the shareholders and their narrow-minded view of animation. Not John Lasseter.
"There are two wolves and they are always fighting. One is darkness and despair. The other is light and hope. Which wolf wins? Whichever one you feed." - Casey Newton, Tomorrowland
But anyone who thinks The Princess and The Frog and Winnie the Pooh were going to save hand drawn is deluding himself. Lasseter is the last person who would want to abandon but management has turned off the lights long ago. Disney consumer products is calling the shots at WDAS and PIXAR these days.
And I wish this discussion would die. What's really here to discuss anymore?
Well, it doesn't change the fact that John flat out lied to us.
Also, I'm trying to be mature about it, but apparently, Disney is the same ad every other heartless company. All they fucking care about is profit and I hope Bob Iger gets caught with his hand in the cookie jar. And by that, I mean doing something that'll permanently ruin his reputation beyond repair and get him fired before his contract is up.
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the last of the 2D animators play the "Take the job and shove it because I quit!" card, whatnot with how Iger is treating the medium. He doesn't even care for the legacy at the studios anyway!
DisneyJedi wrote:And by that, I mean doing something that'll permanently ruin his reputation beyond repair and get him fired before his contract is up.
You're VERY foolish.
Despite the fact that John's hands are tied by the marketing department, he is STILL a creative in charge. A VERY rare thing in Hollywood. We could very well end up with another David Stainton. You have no idea what you're saying.
PatrickvD wrote:John had to answer to the shareholders for sure.
But anyone who thinks The Princess and The Frog and Winnie the Pooh were going to save hand drawn is deluding himself. Lasseter is the last person who would want to abandon but management has turned off the lights long ago. Disney consumer products is calling the shots at WDAS and PIXAR these days.
And I wish this discussion would die. What's really here to discuss anymore?
Well, we could be talking about Frozen, but like you said; what's to talk about? What bothers me is why more info & pics have leaked than officially released by WDAS! The "fake" posters in Feb & the 2 images of elsa last month. Lets say in a couple weeks from now a new image of Frozen comes out, but it's another leak, not an official release. That's all the info on Frozen we have this year is from leaks. Has WDAS released anything officially since last Dec.?
And just what is the future of WDAS after 2014? Pixar will "break the bank" in 2015 with an original film "Inside Out" & another sequeal "Finding Dory". No room for a WDAS film that year.
PatrickvD wrote:John had to answer to the shareholders for sure.
But anyone who thinks The Princess and The Frog and Winnie the Pooh were going to save hand drawn is deluding himself. Lasseter is the last person who would want to abandon but management has turned off the lights long ago. Disney consumer products is calling the shots at WDAS and PIXAR these days.
And I wish this discussion would die. What's really here to discuss anymore?
I know. I'm sick of this. Someone please close this thread at once before we go crazy.
DisneyEra wrote:Well, we could be talking about Frozen, but like you said; what's to talk about? What bothers me is why more info & pics have leaked than officially released by WDAS! The "fake" posters in Feb & the 2 images of elsa last month. Lets say in a couple weeks from now a new image of Frozen comes out, but it's another leak, not an official release. That's all the info on Frozen we have this year is from leaks. Has WDAS released anything officially since last Dec.?
And just what is the future of WDAS after 2014? Pixar will "break the bank" in 2015 with an original film "Inside Out" & another sequeal "Finding Dory". No room for a WDAS film that year.
The film is still more than 7 months away from release, I'm sure when Disney are ready and have something they're happy to show to the public you will see it. The future hasn't been announced yet, we know that Big Hero 6 and a new Clements/Musker film are among those in development so I'd imagine the studio has some kind of plan.
PatrickvD wrote:John had to answer to the shareholders for sure.
But anyone who thinks The Princess and The Frog and Winnie the Pooh were going to save hand drawn is deluding himself. Lasseter is the last person who would want to abandon but management has turned off the lights long ago. Disney consumer products is calling the shots at WDAS and PIXAR these days.
I agree, it must be a frustrating thing for Lasseter to have lay-offs imposed by the suits above him but from what Tom Bancroft says, it seems Lasseter has been fighting a losing battle for some time now. It would be interesting to know just how many employees have been laid off right across the company this week at a time where Disney stock is at an all time high value.
PatrickvD wrote:Lasseter is the last person who would want to abandon but management has turned off the lights long ago. Disney consumer products is calling the shots at WDAS and PIXAR these days.
Can we please stop pretending that Lasseter has no say in anything and every decision is imposed on him? Yes, he may have to report to Horn and Iger but he holds a very powerful position within the company. If he truly wanted to make another hand-drawn feature, he would have. He could have at least given hand-drawn animation another chance after The Princess and the Frog and not write it off completely right away (and no, I'm not counting Winnie the Pooh).
DisneyAnimation88 wrote:It must be a frustrating thing for Lasseter to have lay-offs imposed by the suits above him but from what Tom Bancroft says, it seems Lasseter has been fighting a losing battle for some time now.
Tom Bancroft hasn't been at Disney since 2003. I don't think he really knows what's going on at WDAS now. I know that he probably has friends working there who may have kept in contact but judging from his blog entry it looks to me that what he's saying is merely guesswork rather than actually having any inside info about the matter.
DisneyJedi wrote:And by that, I mean doing something that'll permanently ruin his reputation beyond repair and get him fired before his contract is up.
You're VERY foolish.
Despite the fact that John's hands are tied by the marketing department, he is STILL a creative in charge. A VERY rare thing in Hollywood. We could very well end up with another David Stainton. You have no idea what you're saying.
No no no no no. It's not John's reputation that I want to see destroyed beyond repair. It's Mister Bob "I don't care about the company's legacy" Iger's reputation I want to see ruined.
But I digress. Even though neither PatF or Winnie the Pooh did Lion King numbers, they're still hits with the audiences and critics. Plus, they made some pretty good money in merchandise and DVD/Blu-ray sales AND proved one thing...
That hand-drawn animation is anything but dead at Disney.
Sotiris wrote:Tom Bancroft hasn't been at Disney since 2000. I don't think he really knows what's going on at WDAS now. I know that he probably has friends working there who may have kept in contact but judging from his blog entry it looks to me that what he's saying is merely guesswork rather than actually having any inside info about the matter.
And you, Sotoris, know better than Tom because he hasn't been at Disney since 2000? Obviously is in very close touch with all of his friends there. He knows better than anyone that has so far spoken on this whole debacle.
As he said himself: John isn't a saint, but he knows talent and values good people. If there had been a 2D project that he REALLY felt was worth going for, I think he would have. It just didn't happen. Does that suck? Yes. Was it maybe partly his fault? Probably. Was it entirely his doing? Is he the horrible, evil mastermind that some of you are so damn determined to make him out to be? For god's sake, no! Do you just ignore the story of John being the one fighting to keep them around for so long while they sat there and didn't do any *actual* production work? All those guys were probably making 150-200,000 dollars a year to develop ideas, and not actually contribute to an actual product. Can that really be justified year after year by the money crunchers? I'm not at all defending the decision to let them go - as I've said, it really sucks. But is it John Lasseter's fault in its entirety? No.
Sotiris wrote:Tom Bancroft hasn't been at Disney since 2000. I don't think he really knows what's going on at WDAS now. I know that he probably has friends working there who may have kept in contact but judging from his blog entry it looks to me that what he's saying is merely guesswork rather than actually having any inside info about the matter.
And you, Sotoris, know better than Tom because he hasn't been at Disney since 2000? Obviously is in very close touch with all of his friends there. He knows better than anyone that has so far spoken on this whole debacle.
As he said himself: John isn't a saint, but he knows talent and values good people. If there had been a 2D project that he REALLY felt was worth going for, I think he would have. It just didn't happen. Does that suck? Yes. Was it maybe partly his fault? Probably. Was it entirely his doing? Is he the horrible, evil mastermind that some of you are so damn determined to make him out to be? For god's sake, no! Do you just ignore the story of John being the one fighting to keep them around for so long while they sat there and didn't do any *actual* production work? All those guys were probably making 150-200,000 dollars a year to develop ideas, and not actually contribute to an actual product. Can that really be justified year after year by the money crunchers? I'm not at all defending the decision to let them go - as I've said, it really sucks. But is it John Lasseter's fault in its entirety? No.
Okay, fine. John is no longer the enemy of Disney. But he is still a coward for doing a hand drawn movie.
I'm sorry, but... Are we talking about John Lasseter, the guy who had Toy Story changed drastically to what he didn't set out to make (as he would quote, "A story with the most unhappy, mean people"; making all the characters complete jerks, especially Woody) and fought to make the film as HE intended it to be?
Hate to say it, but I have to agree with Wade on this as I kind of think he (John) HAS become a coward to say the least because he's basically the shareholders' bitch now.
DisneyJedi wrote:...HAS become a coward to say the least because he's basically the shareholders' bitch now.
Tell me, DisneyJedi, what else can he do? What choice does he have? If he decides to go against their wishes, guess what? The best job he could ever possibly have is over. So what can he do? He can fight within the boundaries that he's given, and no more.
Jedi, wade, you two toss around the word coward like a bunch of cowboys in some cliche western. This isnt the wild west. You don't have a full understanding of the situation, stop pretending like you do. We have but a narrow view of these public figures, and there seems to be more positive word of mouth going for him than not. He could very well be fighting tooth and nail to get handrawn going again, maybe he's not. We just don't know.
Sotiris wrote:Stay classy, Disney. Disney stock is trading at an all-time high, Iger is receiving obscene compensation packages, Disney keeps buying billion dollar companies but it's the wages of these few artists that need to be cut.
No surprise here. Disney has always been known as an awful employer, in general.
SWillie! wrote:Is he the horrible, evil mastermind that some of you are so damn determined to make him out to be?
Stop exaggerating any opinion that disagrees with yours. You'd think we were all in politics. Honestly, the depths you go to excuse any and everything this corporation does is crazy to me. And while that may not be a big deal when it concerns greenlighting sequel after sequel or putting their focus on 3D, trying to write the whole "This is a business" excuse for how they treat their employees (the few that are left among the 2D artists now) is offensive.
Listening to most often lately:
Taylor Swift ~ ~ "The Fate of Ophelia"
Taylor Swift ~ "Eldest Daughter"
Taylor Swift ~ "CANCELLED!"
I think it's time we create an angry mob and force Bob Iger out of the Disney Company for good. No good deed goes unpunished!
Disney stock is trading at an all-time high, Iger is receiving obscene compensation packages, Disney keeps buying billion dollar companies but it's the wages of these few artists that need to be cut.
Honestly, the depths you go to excuse any and everything this corporation does is crazy to me. And while that may not be a big deal when it concerns greenlighting sequel after sequel or putting their focus on 3D, trying to write the whole "This is a business" excuse for how they treat their employees (the few that are left among the 2D artists now) is offensive.