Bambi: Diamond Edition Discussion - March 1, 2011

[MJW]

For everyone that got a copy yesterday (or the day before if you ordered online and got an early shipment ), what are your opinions of the restoration and presentation of the film?

I picked up my copy from Best Buy yesterday, and they had plenty to go around. There were about 3 stacks on the shelf in the new release section, and another 2 in the regular animated film section. I didn't see any of the lunchboxes, but I didn't want one anyway. I didn't have any problems using the coupon, so for me that's 2 for 2 with Best Buy.

I only made it about a third of the way through the movie last night and plan to watch the rest probably tonight. I haven't formed a solid opinion yet on the restoration, but so far so good. I'm generally a pretty critical person, especially when it comes to the quality of something, so I am taking my time in forming my thoughts. From what I've seen, the restoration is pretty good. The clarity of the characters really stand out, but I did notice that in fast moving shots and/or scenes where the chracters are further away from the foreground, things look a little muddy? Not sure if I am just being overly critical or if this is something that wasn't inherent to the original film itself. I'm not as familiar with Bambi as I am with some of the other classics, but I am glad to have it in my collection.

[jpanimation]

Just finished scouring every corner of this disc - excluding the game - and some simple things not included just baffle me. What would've made this disc great:

- the RKO title card reinserted (obviously)
- the ability to select all of the new segments from Inside Walt's Story Meetings off the menu
- the Disney Time Capsule
- the poster gallery, which IMO was small to begin with and should've been expanded with additional posters and publicity material

Other then that, the fact that this is a single disc release didn't hinder it at all. While I would've loved a feature talking about Thumper's original death scene, which was apparently story boarded, the new stuff added is satisfying enough. The 'Two Leaves' deleted scene is great, as is the discussion on the Chipmunk and Squirrel, which now gives you a whole different perspective on the movie when those characters show up (they're all still there, just with their roles reduced).

scenes where the chracters are further away from the foreground, things look a little muddy? Not sure if I am just being overly critical or if this is something that wasn't inherent to the original film itself.

That's probably the layers and layers of glass on the multiplane camera. Could also stem from dirty cells, since they were being washed and reused as a WWII cost cutting measure. My gut tells me it's inherent and just part of the film making process used on this

[MJW]

That's probably the layers and layers of glass on the multiplane camera. Could also stem from dirty cells, since they were being washed and reused as a WWII cost cutting measure. My gut tells me it's inherent and just part of the film making process used on this

Wow, thanks for that information, I never knew that they were re-using cels. So they would actually ink & paint a cel, photograph it, and wash it off to re-use for a completely different frame? That's really interesting, and a cool fact to remember!

The film is very atmospheric, so maybe what I am mistaking for being "muddy" is just the intent of the filmmakers to add real depth. I guess it would look weird for the chacters to pop off the screen when they aren't supposed to be in the foreground for a particular scene.

I'm looking forward to watching the rest of the film and bonus features later tonight!

[Refael]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBpsZ_TU9T4

[Barbossa]

Just made an observation. Anyone notice something on the spine of the cover that the other Blu-Ray and Diamond Editions don't have?
(hint: there was a discussion about this in another thread)

[Victurtle]

"Walt Disney" ?

[SpringHeelJack]

Oy vey.

Barbossa, I hope the answer to your question is "the color green" or the word "Diamond Edition" because I'd rather not have this thread too turn into a clusterfuck of magnificent proportions discussing why the company wants to get rid of the ghost of Walt Disney but not using an apostrophe or just his surname or whatever the hell certain people seem to read into it.

[MJW]

I know Disney is keen on making new 4k masters for all their old films but I have a feeling that Disney is just going to use the current 2k masters that they have for all the Platinums from Bambi onward (4k scans starting with Sleeping Beauty). Here is a comment Don Hahn made during an interview when referring to Blu-Ray:

"If there is a drawback, I would have to say that its greatest strength might also be its greatest drawback! That would only be because the clarity and quality of a Blu-ray presentation really shows everything. A good example would be Bambi. We were recently reviewing the 2004 restoration and notice some additional artifacts in the image. So now, we are going back to do another "beauty pass" on an already beautiful restoration."

To me, this doesn't suggest that they are going back to the original negative, rescanning at 4k, and essentially doing a brand new restoration from scratch. It sounds more like they're taking the original 2k restoration and adding additional DNR. The end results are great but it just adds to the cheapness of this release being almost an exact copy of the Platinum Edition (extras and all). IDK, but it just feels like Alice got more effort put into it and it's not even part of this so-called prestigious line.

Can someone explain the whole 2k vs. 4k thing to me a little further? I think I understand it as a 4k scan is at a higher resolution than 2k, but in terms of Blu-ray, is 2k considered "good enough?" The poster above is concerned that 2k is not the best available, is 4k the absolute highest resolution scan possible at this point?

Also, If anyone knows, which of the DAC classics that we've seen on Blu-ray have been scanned as 2k and which have been scanned as 4k? The post above states that the Platinums starting with Sleeping Beauty were scanned at 4k, but that leaves only Pinocchio after it. Were only these 2 scanned at 4k so far?

[monorail91]

What character is featured on the Blu-ray spine? I like when Disney does kinda weird ones, like Merryweather for Sleeping Beauty, Cogsworth for Beauty and the Beast, etc...

[MJW]

What character is featured on the Blu-ray spine? I like when Disney does kinda weird ones, like Merryweather for Sleeping Beauty, Cogsworth for Beauty and the Beast, etc...

No out-of-the-ordinary this time, it's Bambi!

[Barbossa]

"Walt Disney" ?

Yeah. I wonder why they didn't do that with the others.

[monorail91]

What character is featured on the Blu-ray spine? I like when Disney does kinda weird ones, like Merryweather for Sleeping Beauty, Cogsworth for Beauty and the Beast, etc...

No out-of-the-ordinary this time, it's Bambi!

Which one's he?

[nachonaco]

Man, I haven't seen this movie in years, and I finally did last night.

I couldn't believe how dark it was. Not just Bambi's mom, not just the forest fire, but a bird commits suicide by proxy.....

[SpringHeelJack]

Assuming you're talking about the end, I don't think that's really suicide by proxy. The bird panics and tries to escape because she doesn't want to hide. I don't think she was trying to commit suicide.

[DancingCrab]

I always found that "suicide" bird to be hilarious as a kid. She was so stupid and melodramatic. She deserved what she got.

[LucilleBallFilms]

I don't have an iPod, iPad or mac so I tried connecting the Second Screen with my laptop but all I ever get is

Can't decide if it's a bad or good thing

[jpanimation]

Can someone explain the whole 2k vs. 4k thing to me a little further? I think I understand it as a 4k scan is at a higher resolution than 2k, but in terms of Blu-ray, is 2k considered "good enough?" The poster above is concerned that 2k is not the best available, is 4k the absolute highest resolution scan possible at this point?

Also, If anyone knows, which of the DAC classics that we've seen on Blu-ray have been scanned as 2k and which have been scanned as 4k? The post above states that the Platinums starting with Sleeping Beauty were scanned at 4k, but that leaves only Pinocchio after it. Were only these 2 scanned at 4k so far?

The difference is about four times the resolution (IDK enough to give you specifics, that was always KubrickFan's thing). As far as Blu-Ray is concerned, 2K is good enough, since that resolution is still higher then the 1080p resolution that Blu-Ray supports (even if only marginally). Currently, 4K is an industry standard for Blu-Ray transfers, as 2K was for the majority of DVD transfers. Sleeping Beauty, Pinocchio, Snow White, Fantasia, and Alice were all brand new 4K restorations (there may be others that I'm unaware of). My concern [over a new 4K scan not being made] was for archival purposes, not for the quality of the Blu-Ray image. In an interview I read, Disney said the original nitrate negatives are starting to decay faster then ever now, and I merely wanted them to have the highest resolution master scan possible made before it's gone (4K would be a definitive master to have, since it's equal to the 35mm image on the negative, basically an exact digital copy of the film). As to whether 4K is the highest available resolution, no. There have been 8K scans made for restorations on Blu-Ray but it would be completely unnecessary here (4K is all that is needed).

That said, Bambi looks great on Blu-Ray.

[cms382]

Like most if not all of my Disney Blu-ray purchases, I'm very pleased with this release. The transfer is fantastic, and the new presentation of the story meetings is almost like having a commentary done by Walt himself. One of my favorite alternate movie modes on Blu-ray. Haven't had the chance to try out the second screen yet.

The menu is the best so far. While the layout of the cover isn't great, I do like the nice color gold of the title, the lack of zomg-sparkles, and the green spine. 1-disc is fine with me; the content is there.

My only real complaint with the content would be the lack of the RKO logo at the beginning.

[Victurtle]

Can someone explain the whole 2k vs. 4k thing to me a little further? I think I understand it as a 4k scan is at a higher resolution than 2k, but in terms of Blu-ray, is 2k considered "good enough?" The poster above is concerned that 2k is not the best available, is 4k the absolute highest resolution scan possible at this point?

Also, If anyone knows, which of the DAC classics that we've seen on Blu-ray have been scanned as 2k and which have been scanned as 4k? The post above states that the Platinums starting with Sleeping Beauty were scanned at 4k, but that leaves only Pinocchio after it. Were only these 2 scanned at 4k so far?

The difference is about four times the resolution (IDK enough to give you specifics, that was always KubrickFan's thing). As far as Blu-Ray is concerned, 2K is good enough, since that resolution is still higher then the 1080p resolution that Blu-Ray supports (even if only marginally). Currently, 4K is an industry standard for Blu-Ray transfers, as 2K was for the majority of DVD transfers. Sleeping Beauty, Pinocchio, Snow White, Fantasia, and Alice were all brand new 4K restorations (there may be others that I'm unaware of). My concern [over a new 4K scan not being made] was for archival purposes, not for the quality of the Blu-Ray image. In an interview I read, Disney said the original nitrate negatives are starting to decay faster then ever now, and I merely wanted them to have the highest resolution master scan possible made before it's gone (4K would be a definitive master to have, since it's equal to the 35mm image on the negative, basically an exact digital copy of the film). As to whether 4K is the highest available resolution, no. There have been 8K scans made for restorations on Blu-Ray but it would be completely unnecessary here (4K is all that is needed).

That said, Bambi looks great on Blu-Ray.

Has there been any evidence that Bambi did or did not undergo a 4k scan?

[KubrickFan]

The difference is about four times the resolution (IDK enough to give you specifics, that was always KubrickFan's thing). As far as Blu-Ray is concerned, 2K is good enough, since that resolution is still higher then the 1080p resolution that Blu-Ray supports (even if only marginally). Currently, 4K is an industry standard for Blu-Ray transfers, as 2K was for the majority of DVD transfers. Sleeping Beauty, Pinocchio, Snow White, Fantasia, and Alice were all brand new 4K restorations (there may be others that I'm unaware of). My concern [over a new 4K scan not being made] was for archival purposes, not for the quality of the Blu-Ray image. In an interview I read, Disney said the original nitrate negatives are starting to decay faster then ever now, and I merely wanted them to have the highest resolution master scan possible made before it's gone (4K would be a definitive master to have, since it's equal to the 35mm image on the negative, basically an exact digital copy of the film). As to whether 4K is the highest available resolution, no. There have been 8K scans made for restorations on Blu-Ray but it would be completely unnecessary here (4K is all that is needed).

That said, Bambi looks great on Blu-Ray.

Has there been any evidence that Bambi did or did not undergo a 4k scan?

Could be, but it would be downrezzed to 2K when they actually started doing the restoration itself.
I wouldn't put too much trust in the numbers. A 4K scan and restoration is most likely done primarily for archival purposes. One that's downrezzed also tends to look better, but to say that a 2K scan is somehow inferior is ridiculous.
However, since Disney was supposed to do all-new restorations (or at least new scans) on their animated catalog, I'm surprised that this one wasn't redone. Not that I'm complaining, mind you, since Bambi seems to look great (I don't own the Blu-ray yet).