B&TB should've won the award for Best Picture ?

[Lazario]

I don't think this member serves any purpose or use whatsoever.

Never in the history of UD has there been a member spewing so much unbelievably ugly and disgusting garbage on this site (and don't think you all can hold my Full House jokes and Gilmore Girls and Will Ferrell rants against me - I have never spread 100% blatant hatred against other people).

Something needs to be done about it.

Sorry Widdi, if I upstaged you in anyway way - WIDDI has a great post at the end of the last page, in case anyone skips directly to this page.


And I refuse to reply to any member who answers back with idiotic conservative / Republican / Religious-Right hatred. So, just forget about it, UncleEd and certain other secret-homophobes on this site. This is merely for the benefit of other UD'ers. Who it seems have turned away from even coming back to this thread, knowing how much outright hatred is in it.

[akhenaten]

if mary poppins was released in 1991 i dont think it would've been nominated for best picture at all but if bambi were to compete with SOTL..now that's a real tricky question..i love BATB but its just too simplistic for a best picture.yes it still deserves the nomination it got because its a solid presentation of a simple love story with engaging characters and showstoppers but SOTL dealt with heavier issues and brilliant script.

notice how movie just gets more and more complicate throughout the century.in the 40-50s almost any good movies mightve had a chance for best picture.even enchanted

[SleepingBeautyAurora]

"If you can't say something nice... don't say nothing at all." - Thumper

[Jules]

Never in the history of UD has there been a member spewing so much unbelievably ugly and disgusting garbage on this site.

Agreed.

Something needs to be done about it.

Agreed again.

I'm siding with Laz on this one, and am for one shocked at the homophobic malice shown by UncleEd. Suffice to say he seems to have the sensitivity and empathic skills of a cheese grater.

On the Beauty and the Beast matter, I too do not think it is Oscar worthy. I must admit I have not seen Silence of the Lambs, but for one thing, I percieve Beauty and the Beast as a generally imperfect film. Despite being nowhere near my favourites of the 90s Disney animated features, I'll have to admit The Lion King would have made a much better candidate (I'm surprised that wasn't nominated). On the other hand, I feel Disney features like Hunchback (which I absolutely love) are imperfect too, yet are more revolutionary and unique than Beauty, hence I hold Hunchback in very high esteem.

It's interesting to note what film critic James Berardinelli has to say on the matter:

Beauty and the Beast earned the most enthusiastic notices ever by the critics and was recognized with a Best Picture Oscar nomination (considering the weak competition, it deserved to win the award).

What do you guys think?

[Lazario]

If that critic was actually calling Silence of the Lambs a weak film, he has all the intelligence of a wood-chip.



To get back on topic, The Silence of the Lambs is actually one of the greatest films I have ever seen. Anyone who only responds to "face eating" is, to say the very least, being dismissive and not seeing the whole picture.

In terms of why it was even nominated for Best Picture, it probably has something to do with the fact that the film is psychologically fascinating, had the best acting among the nominees, was considered an emotionally moving viewing experience, featured a woman as the "hero," and was all-around powerful, interesting, well-made, smart, and satisfying.

And again, I have to keep bringing up Beauty and the Beast. That is not a great film. People have this unbelievable delusion that it was that great a film. Ideas alone do not drive a film, and BatB did not cash-in on them. Instead it performed a magic trick and made people believe they were seeing a masterpiece.

[2099net]

Just as (no matter how much some may want it) a Star Wars was never Best Picture contender, neither will a film like Beauty and the Beast.

you do realize, Star Wars was indeed nominated for Best Picture. Besides, winning Best Picture isn't really all that important, it's the getting nominated part that is. So stop arguing against something that didn't even happen. you say you're not badmouthing Beauty and the Beast when clearly you are.

I wasn't sure if Star Wars was nominated or not, but I expected so. It and Annie Hall often get brought up in discussions about Oscars.

But being nominated doesn't mean it was ever a serious or likely contender.

If you have 1000 people voting in the academy nominating movies, how many of those 1000 votes are required for a picture to be nominated for Best Picture? Depending on how the votes are split, and the weighting, perhaps a best picture nomination could get as little as 100 votes. May be even less.

And then people have to vote for that film out of all the other nominations too. Again, who knows how close (or far) Star Wars was to Annie Hall?

The Academy never publish the tallies, so we'll never know. But if I was a betting man I wouldn't have bet on Star Wars winning that year. And I would have been right.

I'm not badmouthing Beauty and the Beast at all. It does what it was made to do, so therefore it is a success. It's a success commercially, artistically and critically. But its not "Best Picture" material.

But I ask again if the story was published as a novel - complete with stereotypical characters speaking in bad stereotypical accents while conforming to bad stereotypical nationality behaviours, and none of the characters really having to make any major emotional decisions (all of the emotion in the film is juvenile – every thing is one thing or another, with no shades of grey in-between) would you expect it to win a "best novel" award?

The curse is never explained satisfactory. The enchanted castle staff have no moral qualms or doubts about "using" Belle to break the curse. Belle as never loved anyone before meeting the Beast, so she never has to choose one love over another. Gaston himself is nothing but an arrogant obnoxious buffoon, again handily removing any potential emotional conflict from Belle's love for the Beast at the end. It's also considered a "romantic" film, but the whole concept of the Beast (initially) holding Belle prisoner is quickly whitewashed over. Belle is essentially kidnapped by the Beast, and nothing it ever made of the fact.

Think how much better and satisfying it would be if Gaston and Belle were in love from the start. How Belle would have to decide to forsake Gaston for her father's well being when deciding to change places with him as the Beast's captive. Imagine Gaston searching high and low for Belle all the time she was held captive…. Belle trying to get some of the enchanted staff to smuggle out a message to Gaston… And imagine the ending, where Belle has to choose between Gaston or the Beast, and the fact that she has fallen for the Beast would drive Gaston into a jealous rage, making lash out at the monster before him that had not only imprisoned his loved one, but also stolen her heart…

I know some will say all or some of the above is not appropriate for a children's film (I disagree – the skill would be in presenting the above in a way capable of being understood and appropriate for children) but that's the main problem. I'm an adult. Every single member of the Academy are adults. And most adults tend to prefer adult themes and content.

[Jules]

That is not a great film. People have this unbelievable delusion that it was that great a film. Ideas alone do not drive a film, and BatB did not cash-in on them. Instead it performed a magic trick and made people believe they were seeing a masterpiece.

I think that is pretty much the truth. It is undoubtedly a very good film, but not quite the masterpiece people have been led to believe. My 38 year old brother believes The Lion King is Disney's true masterpiece. As I have already said, I'll set my personal taste aside in this case and agree with him, because I think it's true. Then again I realise we're talking of the prospects of a Disney animated feature being a masterpiece, which is a very hard thing to achieve in any film. I don't think Disney have made a masterpiece these last ten years. But I don't mind. Though I'd love to see Disney make the all-round perfect film, I can see that a movie doesn't need to be a flawless product to be a wonderful one. Hercules is likely not held in as high esteem as Disney's so-called Fab Four, or any of the Pixar features, but I love and appreciate everything that composes it, from the art direction to the Gerald Scarfe-ish character and world designs to the hyperactive, stylised animation to the wonderful Menken score and songs and the witty, entertaining script.

If that critic was actually calling Silence of the Lambs a weak film, he has all the intelligence of a wood-chip.

After reading that, I just had to see how he reviewed Silence of the Lambs. Don't worry. He gave it three and a half stars (a half less than Beauty and the Beast, though, which he rated to perfection). See for yourself :

Silence of the Lambs Review (James Berardinelli)

[BrandonH]

I haven't seen SotL, so I can't say whether I think BatB should have won Best Picture. On its own merits, though, BatB delivered the goods, and it has made me laugh and cry many times over the years.

To me, Best Picture should be given to the movie that gives the audience the best overall experience. Of course, that's going to differ with each person, but there is no reason that an animated film can't give just as much emotion and food for thought as a live action film.

I still maintain that Ratatouille is the best movie released in 2007, and it should have received a Best Picture nomination. I think the same about Cars in 2006, but that's a less popular opinion on these boards.

[Lazario]

If we're talking best overall experience, Silence of the Lambs delivers a lot more than Beauty and the Beast. It's incredibly dark, ugly, disturbing, violent, scary, and wordy. But it's also a lot more than the overly fluffy, simple-minded, underwhelming mainstream entertainment Beauty was. In the end, Silence won because it was a more serious film. But it was also the better film, audience experience and all.

[Escapay]

Wow, quite a lot has been said here. I sat down and read all of it, and while I'd like to address every little bit, I doubt I'd give each bit fair treatment. But I was really impressed by what Widdi and Laz said so the two of you get pink elephants:



And as engaging as the whole BATB/TSOTL debate is, I can't single out one best poster, mainly because I can see/understand both sides of the argument. However, I'd have to say that The Silence of the Lambs deserved the award more, as I already said a page ago.

And this whole drama with UncleEd...well, as bad as he's trying to make those against him sound, he's coming off as far worse. Not since PapiBear have I seen such nastiness from one poster. I'd like to contribute more (mainly the fact that some words should never be said in polite company, and that other words are best left unsaid), but it's already been addressed by others in a better way.

Albert

[SleepingBeautyAurora]

I guess Beauty and the Beast will be the only animated film to be nominated for Best Picture ever... now that they have the Best Animated Picture award or is there still a chance that an animated film could be nominated for Best Picture ? Atleast Beauty and the Beast recieved a nomination, that is an honor itself. I guess we will have to wait to see what future animated films will bring to the table ?

[Lazario]

Too bad there's no retro-active Oscar, for a better Disney classic, like Sleeping Beauty or Dumbo.

[Prudence]

Goodness, and here I hadn't looked in this thread before now due to my lack of interest in Beauty and the Beast. I would need to compare the other films that were nominated for Best Picture during the year to answer this poll, and I have not viewed them all.

As a simple, brief response to the drama:
People like UncleEd make sane conservatives, of which there are many (including my current significant other), look awful. Others have already said the obvious rest of what I would have mentioned.

[Widdi]

I guess Beauty and the Beast will be the only animated film to be nominated for Best Picture ever... now that they have the Best Animated Picture award or is there still a chance that an animated film could be nominated for Best Picture ? Atleast Beauty and the Beast recieved a nomination, that is an honor itself. I guess we will have to wait to see what future animated films will bring to the table ?

A movie can be nominated both in the Best Animated Picture and Best Picture category (but having one animated picture in the running for BP is kind of a giveaway as to who will win BAP), although many people believe that the award was created in order to prevent Shrek from being nominated (and subsequently winning) Best Picture.

A lot of people don't realize that the Academy Awards are run much like an election. Studios campaign and advertise the hell out of their best pictures of the year to Academy Members to get them to nominated and to win these awards. Running a Campaign for an Animated film for both awards would be a costly and futile (in the eyes of studio executives) endeavor. And when it comes to choosing which award to run for, the producers of animated movies realize they have a much greater chance of having their film win Best Animated Picture than Best Picture, so they focus on it more.

Ratatouille was submitted for consideration in both categories last year, though the campaign was aimed at making the movie win Best Animated Picture, which it did. Had more time and money gone into the campaign for Best Picture there is no doubt in my mind it would have been nominated.


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I got a pink elephant from Escapy! Does that mean I've officially arrived at UD?

[Flanger-Hanger]

I got a pink elephant from Escapy! Does that mean I've officially arrived at UD?

No, you still have to complete the eating of 100 slipcovers, the egging of Hanna Montana's house, walk all day wearing those Disney Digital 3-D glasses, go to a store and ask for a slipcover (even if I reminds you of eating those 100 previous ones), send a letter of complaint about the poor quality and lack of two-disc releases to Disney, meet another UD member at a Disney theme park, scream at the sight of a lace collar (if it does it's Godzilla cry back at you get brownie points), make Escapay's WIST series and get voted UD member of the year.

[Widdi]

I got a pink elephant from Escapy! Does that mean I've officially arrived at UD?

No, you still have to complete the eating of 100 slipcovers, the egging of Hanna Montana's house, walk all day wearing those Disney Digital 3-D glasses, go to a store and ask for a slipcover (even if I reminds you of eating those 100 previous ones), send a letter of complaint about the poor quality and lack of two-disc releases to Disney, meet another UD member at a Disney theme park, scream at the sight of a lace collar (if it does it's Godzilla cry back at you get brownie points), make Escapay's WIST series and get voted UD member of the year.

Aww, Damn.

*reaches for 101 Dalmatians' slipcover*

Somebody pass the ketchup?

[Disney Duster]

Think how much better and satisfying it would be if Gaston and Belle were in love from the start. How Belle would have to decide to forsake Gaston for her father's well being when deciding to change places with him as the Beast's captive. Imagine Gaston searching high and low for Belle all the time she was held captive…. Belle trying to get some of the enchanted staff to smuggle out a message to Gaston… And imagine the ending, where Belle has to choose between Gaston or the Beast, and the fact that she has fallen for the Beast would drive Gaston into a jealous rage, making lash out at the monster before him that had not only imprisoned his loved one, but also stolen her heart…

I know this isn't quite as complicated, but don't you think that Belle and the Beast have a signifigant toll on Gaston's image and self-esteem? Belle's the only girl who doesn't want him, and then she goes for a Beast of all things. So fighting the Beast that challenges Gaston's notions of love, of what matters: looks or souls, and that he thought he was such a great guy, only to find out he is no better than a terrible beast...I think that's enough (in fact, those are rather complicated feelings, right?), though your ideas are of course interesting and would have added to the story in a great way.

I know some will say all or some of the above is not appropriate for a children's film (I disagree – the skill would be in presenting the above in a way capable of being understood and appropriate for children) but that's the main problem. I'm an adult. Every single member of the Academy are adults. And most adults tend to prefer adult themes and content.

This brings up similar matters I've thought on similarly. Should children's films have adult things, just presented so they can endure and understand them? Then are they children's films anymore? Are Disney films children's films? Should they aspire to be more, and have the adult stuff?

I mean, there's a big difference between a Disney film and Doogle. And even that comparison's really unfair.

[Lazario]

I know this isn't quite as complicated, but don't you think that Belle and the Beast have a signifigant toll on Gaston's image and self-esteem? Belle's the only girl who doesn't want him, and then she goes for a Beast of all things. So fighting the Beast that challenges Gaston's notions of love, of what matters: looks or souls, and that he thought he was such a great guy, only to find out he is no better than a terrible beast...I think that's enough

I think you are putting way more thought into this movie than the film's writers did.

[Disney Duster]

I know this isn't quite as complicated, but don't you think that Belle and the Beast have a signifigant toll on Gaston's image and self-esteem? Belle's the only girl who doesn't want him, and then she goes for a Beast of all things. So fighting the Beast that challenges Gaston's notions of love, of what matters: looks or souls, and that he thought he was such a great guy, only to find out he is no better than a terrible beast...I think that's enough

I think you are putting way more thought into this movie than the film's writers did.

Oh yea, Gaston didn't seem to really be thinking at all! But I don't think it's takes too much thinking to figure out that part of why Gaston is going after the Beast is because he feels inferior to a monster since Belle loves him instead. Is it? I also agree with something else you said:

Too bad there's no retro-active Oscar, for a better Disney classic, like Sleeping Beauty or Dumbo.

Yea!

[Disney's Divinity]

I think you are putting way more thought into this movie than the film's writers did.

I don't think that really makes a difference. I'm sure when The Wizard of Oz was being created that noone ever even considered an idea like Wicked. It's how the viewer sees it, not how it was intended (otherwise a movie would never be racist or sexist or any other -ist, because many times that happens without any intention to be so).