Should Pocahontas be considered a member of the 'Fab 4'?

[Matt]

GREAT topic.

I feel it should, and it should be the fab five lol.
I really love this movie! my 4th favorite Disney Movie.

[BelleGirl]

Also, if they were really intending to create a mature storyline, what was the point in deviating so far from the actual story?

Well, that's where the problem starts: what is the actual story? Historians don't seem to agree. Naturally, we have the writings of capt John Smith himself, but there is a tendency among historians to doubt the truthfulness of his account. Personally I don't think he was the liar many still make him out to be.
But that's on a sidenote.
As I recall, from the beginning Disney had stated that their movie was 'inspired by' historical events.
Would the movie have been more mature if it was really about a 12 year old girl and a man in his late 20's? (Well maybe, who knows?)
You may also aks: what was Disney's point in taking on the story of Pocahontas in the first place, as they must have known it was a controversial subject to begin with?
Even taking into account the flaws, I still think it's a beautiful movie with a real 'chemistry' between the two leads, and no more 'formulaic' than movies like Beauty and the Beast for instance. In fact, as far as you can envision a 'formula' for Disney films, Pocahontas deviates from it IMO.

[Lazario]

The story is nowhere near as good as the other three in the four

Blame that on its' historical quality. I think most historical films are boring too. But this one is better than most, thanks to Disney. And hey, it's a very strong female role. It has to get some credit for that. I think it's a courageous film about how pointless some wars are, and of course about hatred and the often stupid reasons we choose to hate. It was a very good story in that regard. And a lot more respectful than Beauty and the Beast.

there is a serious quality drop from "The Lion King".

That's ridiculous. If we're talking in terms of the visual design of the movie, this movie is every bit as beautiful, colorful, texturally rich, and amazing than any of the previous 5 movies Disney struck box office gold with.

[BelleGirl]

there is a serious quality drop from "The Lion King".

That's ridiculous. If we're talking in terms of the visual design of the movie, this movie is every bit as beautiful, colorful, texturally rich, and amazing than any of the previous 5 movies Disney struck box office gold with.

Fully agree Lazario. And as far as comparing story quality.. I cannot say that the story of The Lion King is very clever or complex. Actually it's very simple.

[akhenaten]

unheard score in pocahontas album

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U_AnviMfHk

[BelleGirl]

Saw a few of these 'instrumental music' scenes. I wonder what technique is used to silence the spoken words and retain the instrumental part?

[PixarFan2006]

Pocahontas, in my opinion, was mediocre, compared to Beauty and the Beast and Aladdin. So my answer would be "no".

[MerXAN]

Pocahontas is sensational! I loved it more than TLK.

The Tentative 4th Golden Age (The Princess and the Frog - ???)

It's for sure. I tell you.

[Disney's Divinity]

Even taking into account the flaws, I still think it's a beautiful movie with a real 'chemistry' between the two leads, and no more 'formulaic' than movies like Beauty and the Beast for instance. In fact, as far as you can envision a 'formula' for Disney films, Pocahontas deviates from it IMO.

The movie may be "beautiful," but there is no way it is not formulaic. The only difference between this movie from the others of the period is that the leads don't end up together. Which is really all I can say in its defense. However, I think TLM, B&TB or Aladdin made the formula (the modern one, at least) which ended up drowning many of the later films (in my opinion, of course).

Also:

Fully agree Lazario. And as far as comparing story quality.. I cannot say that the story of The Lion King is very clever or complex. Actually it's very simple.

Not to favor either film over the other (neither is in my personal favorites), but sometimes "less is more." Having a complicated story doesn't guarantee a good movie or one that is better than that of a "simple" story. In fact, playing on very basic human emotions often enough makes it very easy to relate with your audience.

[Lazario]

Pocahontas, in my opinion, was mediocre, compared to Beauty and the Beast and Aladdin. So my answer would be "no".

Beauty and the Beast is the mediocre movie. Not Pocahontas.

[BelleGirl]

Fully agree Lazario. And as far as comparing story quality.. I cannot say that the story of The Lion King is very clever or complex. Actually it's very simple.

Not to favor either film over the other (neither is in my personal favorites), but sometimes "less is more." Having a complicated story doesn't guarantee a good movie or one that is better than that of a "simple" story. In fact, playing on very basic human emotions often enough makes it very easy to relate with your audience.

Well, in the case of Pocahontas they simplified a complicated history into a 'formulaic' R&J story. You have given me the impression before that you'd rather have had a movie that was closer to actual history, which would have made it more complicated.
A formula isn't always necessary a bad thing, as long as it works by "playing on very basic human emotions" and I think Pocahontas does that .. But for instance, if you try to shoehorne 'Aladdin-like'comic relief into a story that 's much darker, like Hunchback for instance, that's when things go wrong.

[Widdi]

The Tentative 4th Golden Age (The Princess and the Frog - ???)

It's for sure. I tell you.

I sure hope so.

[MagicMirror]

I think I agree with Disney's Divinity here. To me 'Pocahontas' represents an attempt by Disney to tackle more serious, profound subjects - it's a pity they failed. The animation and design are lovely, though.

The question would be easier to ask if I knew exactly why the Fab Four are called the Fab Four! Who christened them this in the first place?

[BelleGirl]

I think I agree with Disney's Divinity here. To me 'Pocahontas' represents an attempt by Disney to tackle more serious, profound subjects - it's a pity they failed. The animation and design are lovely, though.

Not to mention most of the music too! I'd rahter say they did not succeed completely, but it was a nice attempt (why not try a second time with "Aida"? The music and story are already there, they only have to make it into a gorgeous looking animated film)

The question would be easier to ask if I knew exactly why the Fab Four are called the Fab Four! Who christened them this in the first place?

Yes, I would like to know that to.

[akhenaten]

if pocahontas is mediocre..what would that make west side story? its a simpler tamer story of gangs in the 50s...looking back at it theyre nothing but a bunch of stupid dancing kids..altho i love the movie.

i didnt like pocahontas on initial viewing but now its my most fav.

i believe the fab four was given by a movie critic or magazine...

[Mooky]

I voted maybe, because I appreciate the effort that went into "Pocahontas" but the finished product seems too flat for me. "Pocahontas"'s strongest points are its animation and music.

And I don't like that term "Fab 4". It sort of implies that none of the post-TLK films were good. I disagree - I think "Mulan" and "Tarzan" were far better than "The Lion King".

On a sidenote, does anyone have the MP3 of "If I Never Knew You"? The movie version, not that crappy end credits version.

[Old Fish Tale]

Beauty and the Beast is the mediocre movie. Not Pocahontas.

Agreed!

[Siren]

I voted yes.

Originally Pocahontas was thought to have been a real contender for best picture and everyone wanted to work on it. Lion King's success, though deserved, came from left field to those who worked on Pocahontas. I think if Pocahontas came out BEFORE Lion King, it would have faired much better in the box office.

The public saw total gold in TLK. And they were geared up for something similar and instead got Pocahontas. Rather than talking animals, they got a talking tree. They got lessons on protecting the land and creatures and a love triangle. The themes were more adult. Hate, racism, war, greed, human death, and a little bit of politics.

Scar and Gaston both fueled a mob of hyenas/people to meet their own needs. One for the throne and the other for glory and Belle's hand. While Ratcliffe fueled a mob on nothing but racism and hate. A witch hunt. Using racial and cultural slurs. It was pretty heavy handed.

Then you had a love triangle. And Kocoum was no villain. He got shot for "protecting" her. A difficult thing for some kids to grasp and parents may have been turned off as well. And then Pocahontas risks her life for John and then he risks his life for Powhatan.

With all that, plus the animation and music, I certainly believe it deserves the rank. As does Mulan, Brother Bear, Hunchback, and Tarzan.

[ToyStoryFan]

I remember once we were learning about Jamestown in class and this movie was talked about. Almost everybody in the class hated it (I think though some were jumping on the bandwagon). Here is what I remember them saying for why they hated it:


1. The animals don't talk.

2. The whole movie was her running around a forest for 90 minutes.

3. Historically inaccurate.

4. It was mostly all dialogue and not enough action.


I just at those people. I think Pocahontas gets a bad reputation because it was a bit too grown-up. The themes were very mature and the subject matter (following your own heart, life and death, betrayal, war, going against your family, greed, love, interpreating dreams, the conflicts that arise when two separate cultues intertwine, and following your true destiny) were a bit too grown-up for most people to handle. You have to have a more open mind to fully apprecite this film. I think most people who hate it went in thinking they were going to see singing/burping animals for an hour and a half.

[drfsupercenter]

I voted Yes because Pocahontas is amazing, I wonder why Alice is supposed to get a Platinum Edition and not Pocahontas.... doesn't make much sense to me.

Possibly because Pocahontas just had the 2-disc 10th anniversary set...

Also, it seems the Platinum Edition line only includes the "Disney Classics", which I along with many people consider to be Snow White through The Lion King... obviously not including Pocahontas. As to what Disney considers to be their classic line, I have no idea... but there seems to be a trend.

Alice In Wonderland... that just recently had a 2-disc set too... but I guess they want to double-dip on that one.

As far as the quality of the movie goes... I haven't seen Pocahontas since I was 8 or so on VHS... so I don't remember it. I do remember liking Colors of the Wind, but every Disney movie has its great musical number (Be Our Guest, Circle of Life, etc.)


Plus, if it was added to the "Fab 4", it would need to be called the "Fab 5"