Final Death Blow for HDVD, PMNT out(Feb 16 Toshiba quits)

Discussion of non-Disney DVD and Blu-ray.
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Post by ichabod »

Another nail in the HD DVD coffin. The UKs first major high street DVD retailer goes Bluray exclusive:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/broadcastin ... d-dvd.html
Major high street retailer Woolworths has become the UK's first major chain to announce it is to drop the in-store sale of HD-DVD discs in favour of rival format Blu-ray.

The move, which comes into effect in March, was taken after Woolworths revealed Blu-ray discs outsold HD-DVD by ten to one over Christmas.

The retailer, which began selling both Blu-ray and HD-DVD formats in October, added that it intends to continue selling HD-DVD online.

“Sales figures clearly show that the market is moving towards one format of high definition DVD,” Woolworths DVD buyer Steven McGunigel said.

"The main reason is the success of Sony’s PlayStation 3 machine. Because it plays Blu-ray discs, there are over three quarters of a million homes in the UK that can view the new high definition format. There is nowhere near that number of HD-DVD players around.

“Switching to Blu-ray only will provide one clear offer to customers in the format they want to watch high definition movies in.”

Blu-ray has been backed by Samsung, Sony, Warner, Dell, Apple, Disney, Warner Bros and 20th Century Fox, with only NES, Microsoft and Universal backing HD-DVD.
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Post by Just Myself »

Just a quick question: BluRay Discs are region free, right? I plan to buy a player soon, and would love to own There Will Be Blood, which I understand Paramount is releasing here in the States and Miramax is releasing it across the pond and down under. I should be able to buy one from the U.K. / Oz land and watch it here, correct?

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Post by 2099net »

No, its HD DVD which was always "region free" (and of course, you couldn't resist degrading the HD DVD name in your latest New DVD thread title :roll: ).

Blu-ray can be region free - and indeed most catalog titles are - but it can also be region locked. Most day and date titles are region locked in the US (but often not elsewhere in the world, even if they are released elsewhere first, such as with Spider-Man 3 released 5 weeks before the region locked US disc :roll: )

This means that once again, the big studios conspire to rip the rest of the world off, with little or no logic or reasoning other than "Screw everyone else."

Anyhow, as for There Will Be Blood, I'm afraid it is possibly going to be locked. It's hard to say, because (again) there appears to be no rhyme or reason to which releases Disney/BVHE region locks and which it doesn't.

Check out http://bluray.liesinc.net/ for lists of known region free and region locked titles. (Region A is the US and Japan, and Region B is Europe, the Middle East and Africa) You'll notice Region A has a much higher proportion of region locked titles.

Another important thing to note, with BD+ which is capable of interogating a player's firmware much more comprehensively then current DVD players/discs ever can today, its unlikely we'll see region free Blu-ray players. And even if we do, they will never be guarenteed to be region free for ever (a new iteration of BD+ could just be released and placed on all new discs rendering them unplayable on a machine with a firmware detected to have been tampered with). (BD+ at Wikipedia)

The people have chosen a winner. The people have chosen excessive DRM and to be ripped off. :roll: (We all know it was the studios and manufacturers which made the choice, thus its the choice which rips off customers - especially non-US ones).
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Post by Paka »

Would you just shut it already, James? I'm fed up with your irrational fanboy-ism... and your bloated sense of entitlement. It makes me sick. :x
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Post by Mr. Toad »

Paka wrote:Would you just shut it already, James? I'm fed up with your irrational fanboy-ism... and your bloated sense of entitlement. It makes me sick. :x
Well I really would not have phrased it that way, I have got to second the motion. Blu Ray won because it put the consumers first and techies/piraters second. HD-DVD was nothing more than an attempt to confuse customers with a cut rate product until those that wanted to go the download route could get their act together. Thankfully that did not happen.
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Post by 2099net »

Paka wrote:Would you just shut it already, James? I'm fed up with your irrational fanboy-ism... and your bloated sense of entitlement. It makes me sick. :x
And yet, if no region free DVD players were available, you'd moan that you couldn't get an unedited copy of Plague Dogs? Or at least be angry?

Today I actually bought a Toshiba EP-35 HD DVD player for several reasons. Firstly and most importantly, I wanted to upgrade from the Xbox 360 add-on, because as we all know the 360 can be noisy. Secondly, with HD DVD undoubtedly going to fail, it makes sense to have a back-up player for my HD DVD discs should players become harder to find in 2-5 years. The 360 and add-on are now my back-up. Thirdly, I don't have to pay any council tax for two months, so I have a bit of extra money and prices on the players have dropped and I still got 7 free discs (although I have two already, and have to send off for the other 5).

And just for Lindsay and the purpose of being balanced, I give a fair review based on my first impressions. I know DarthPrime is still possibly considering a purchase.

DarthPrime has talked a lot about the upscaling features of the Toshiba HD DVD players. The EP-35 is the most recent generation of players so I assume it has the most advanced upscaling chip - or at least equal to previous generations. I have to say that while the upscaling did impress me, its not really any better than my xBox 360 or PS3. At a pinch, it probably is a little better - static text on a screen seems to come out sharper, but when actually playing a movie with lots of movement I can't detect a difference.

I will add a disclaimer here that my TV only does 720 natively, so it is possble on a 1080 native TV the upscaling may be noticably better.

The upscaling is much better than my TV though when my TV has to do all the work. Upscaling only works over HDMI.

But I would have to say to anyone thinking of buying one for upscaling only purposes, that you see a demo of a Toshiba HD DVD player in action before making any purchasing decision. No doubt other upscaling DVD or Blu-ray players from other manufacturers are just as good (or so close in quality, you wouldn't really notice any difference), so ask to see them too. The Upscaling, while above average, should not be considered as a major selling point.

The boot-up time is slow (about 30 seconds from stand-by and about 20 seconds to another 30 seconds to actually load a disc). It comes as quite a shock after the speed of the 360 and PS3, but I can't say it really bothers me. My cheap bedroom DVD player, for example, takes longer to recognise a DVD, but boots up in seconds.

There's worse time wasting stuff on current DVDs, HD DVDs and Blu-ray discs such as having to skip trailers, "You wouldn't steal a car..." propagana and warning screens.

I'm not wired up to the internet yet, but I will purchase a cable today (fingers crossed) and report back later.

Finally, from my point of view, the unit is much quieter - but not totally silent. This will be useful when watching some of the more dialogue driven movies in my collection like Babel and The Preistige. Picture quality too seems a minor step up from the 360 solution. Over all the player is certainly considerably better, and fully justifies being my new main HD DVD player.

People who don't support HD DVD can take comfort in the fact that my purchase has (reportedly) cost Toshiba money, as they are (reportedly) selling for a subsidised price. :D

And just to make it clear I'm not recommending anyone buys a HD DVD at this point in time. I can only justify this expense due to the number of HD DVD titles I already own.

I've just realised now, with this purchase, I have 9 DVD players in my house! :o
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Post by Paka »

Plague Dogs? Feh. My point is, dear, that home video is not the be-all and end-all of my existence. I don't hoard and consume thousands of discs like so much forgettable product. And that's what DVDs are... little more than product. I do like film as an art form, yes - and Blu-ray provides the best possible way to experience a film as it was produced.

But is it a necessity? Surely not. Would my life have ended or been negated in some odd way if I had never seen the unedited version of The Plague Dogs? Hell no!

You have got to take a step back and acknowledge that there is more to life than the stuff on your shelf. :roll:
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Post by DarthPrime »

I actually have thought about picking up a HD DVD player. The price is just too good to pass up now, and the free discs just sweeten the deal. Its only a small amount over an upconverting player, plus even if you don't buy the discs you can rent and watch some movies in HD. The Toshiba models have been regarded as great upconverters. I've even heard some compare them to the Oppos, etc...

I've always preferred the HD DVD format for many reasons. Just because its region free doesn't mean its the format for pirates. Blu-rays are pirated as well. Region free does nothing more than make HD DVD more consumer friendly. There are releases on HD DVD that are not released in the US yet, and the imports are great. Band of Brothers is an example. Not to mention all the Blu-ray exclusives in the US that are released outside the US on HD DVD. If you want to get real picky HD DVD is the next step from DVD according to the DVD Forum.

I don't have anything against Blu-ray though. I thought Blu-ray got off to a slow start, and with retailers and studios fully behind it while ignoring HD DVD its made it jump ahead (The disc, and players have gotten a lot better as well.). Blu-ray will ultimately win, but HD DVD will not just vanish over night. The thing that does bother me about Blu-ray is its not finished, and want be until Profile 2.0. So if your not planning to get a PS3, which will be upgradable, your players you get now will eventually not use some of the future Profiles features.

Blu-ray is just as confusing as HD DVD to the consumers. Its not HD DVDs fault that HDM isn't selling as well as everyone hoped. Its not Blu-rays fault either, its the format war. Its not helping that all your newspapers, TV reviews, etc... said at first to wait for a winner in the war. Toshiba, and the rest of the HD DVD companies have a lot of time and money invested in their product. They are not going to just walk away. We will probably hear about Gen 4 players this summer, unless something really major happens to HD DVD before then.

Right now I don't see Blu-ray as the winner, however its getting there. When Paramount and Universal either go neutral, or switch to Blu-ray then the format war will be over. Until then HD DVD is still in the game, although a lot less than they were before the Warner's announcement.

When the war is offically over that will be great news. Although I preferred the HD DVD format, in the end its about movies. Having one format supported by all companies should open up the gates to HDM. However I still see it as a niche product for several years.
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Post by 2099net »

OK, I've just found out the A35/EP-35 does not have the same upscaling chip as the XA/XE range (I assume A is for America and E is for Europe). So the XA range of Toshiba HD DVD players do feature better upscaling chips.
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Post by DarthPrime »

2099net wrote:OK, I've just found out the A35/EP-35 does not have the same upscaling chip as the XA/XE range (I assume A is for America and E is for Europe). So the XA range of Toshiba HD DVD players do feature better upscaling chips.
Yeah A is for America, and E is Europe.

The XA2 is still regarded as the best upscaler for the Toshiba line. However the A35 is supposed to be really good 2009net.

I did notice something odd today. I was at Sam's Club picking up a few things and they sold out of their HD D3s. The HD D3 is the same model as the HD A3. It has Bourne and 300, plus a HDMI cable in it. They were selling them last week for $128, and had a pretty good stack of them. They were completely gone today. I guess people were picking them up to go with their new HDTV purchase since its only a little more than the upconverting DVD players they sell, plus it has movies in the box. It only looked like a few of the Sony Blu-ray players had sold, but they could have been restocked. Sam's still mainly carries Blu-ray movies. The only HD DVDs they had were a few copies of Shrek and Transformers. Still interesting to see that after the Warner move, and the Blu-ray "victory" that HD DVD is selling. I guess the price drop has helped.

Now bring on the $149 Blu-ray players.
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Post by 2099net »

It appears that the XA range lets you tweak the upscaling process via settings in the player - such as sharpness and digital noise reduction, where as the A range just does the upscaling - you can't tweak anything (You can't even turn it on and off, it just does it if you have a HDMI\DVT connection).

In theory, you shouldn't need to tweak the settings - but in practice I assume doing so does result in better upscaling on a number of discs.

But my original point still stands - when you are actually playing an upscaled moving image, deficiencies become much harder to spot. I bet most DVDs advertising upscaling product a picture which is to all intents and purposes indentical when animated and viewed on a mid-range screen at a mid-range distance.
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Post by DarthPrime »

Don't know how true it is, but apparently the HD D3s are being restocked. Someone posted on another board that said CostCo was restocking these, but now 300 is missing from the package. Instead it has 2 Bourne movies, with a HDMI cable.

Apparently some of the HD DVD players can now be made region free for DVDs as well. Has anyone tryed this and how good was the PAL to NTSC conversion?
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Post by Mr. Toad »

Actually a lot of stock at Costco is not a great sign. Usually where things that they made too many of go to be blown out. Costco does not really keep ongoing stock of things like that, just stuff they can blow out very quickly for a few bucks.

I would imagine Walmart, Best Buy and Circuit City would hold somewhere about 50% of the home electronics market in the states(just an educated guess). And apparently none of them will continue to stock HD-DVD, although I think Best Buy is the only one to say so officially.
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Post by Mr. Toad »

Netflix has chosen to stop carrying Blu ray.

Last weeks Hardware stats 65% Blu Ray, 28% HD-DVD, 5% combo
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Post by MK Sharp »

Mr. Toad wrote:Netflix has chosen to stop carrying Blu ray.
Are you sure? All the reports I'm seeing say that Netflix has gone blu-ray exclusive and dropped HDDVD.
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Post by DarthPrime »

MK Sharp wrote:
Mr. Toad wrote:Netflix has chosen to stop carrying Blu ray.
Are you sure? All the reports I'm seeing say that Netflix has gone blu-ray exclusive and dropped HDDVD.
They are dropping HD DVDs.
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Post by Mr. Toad »

DarthPrime wrote:
MK Sharp wrote: Are you sure? All the reports I'm seeing say that Netflix has gone blu-ray exclusive and dropped HDDVD.
They are dropping HD DVDs.
Yes, my bad
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Post by DarthPrime »

HD DVD may be "dead", but Warner's latest statement is pretty funny after going Blu-ray exclusive.
"If there is product available in HD DVD and there is a request from a retailer, we will provide," said Ronnee Sass, Vice President - Publicity & Promotion.

So, this actually means that they will re-stock after May 31st if the demand is there. However, Ronnee made it clear that the general rule is that titles will be out in SD and BD only after May 31st, adding, "There may be isolated instances that an HD DVD title will be created, but as a general rule our titles will be out in SD and BD only after May 31."
http://www.dvdtown.com/news/will-warner ... -them/5234

That leaves a ton of "wiggle" room on the HD DVD side. So if they know a title will sell really well they will go ahead and release it on HD DVD? If HD DVD survives long enough we could see The Dark Knight on HD DVD if this is true. Also if a HD DVD title thats currently out sells out (say Batman Begins) and is in demand they will ship out more.

Doesn't sound like they have completely given up on HD DVD yet, or either they are just going to make money off of titles they know will sell. Anyway its just odd after the Blu-ray plans that they said anything about supporting HD DVD later on. Its more than Paramount did when they went HD DVD exclusive last year.

Although in the end Blu-ray is going to become the standard for HDM. However HD DVD might not completely die off, or it may die off real slow because of things like this.
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Post by Paka »

DarthPrime wrote:Doesn't sound like they have completely given up on HD DVD yet, or either they are just going to make money off of titles they know will sell.
I guess you're one of the people who still thinks it's March 2006, as well. :roll:
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Post by Mr. Toad »

And speaking of does not sound like they have totally given up....The Hollywood Reporter today reported that Toshiba has totally given up and will be making an announcement within the next few weeks. Fin.
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