Disney supports 3 layer HD DVD format

[deathie mouse]

Pirates Of The Caribbean 3 is released on Blu-ray Disc next Tuesday.

The Bourne Ultimatum is next Tuesday too. I'll be enjoying that on HD DVD.

The Bourne is not Disney. Pirates is. It was fun to read. Nice job up there.

As I'm sure you do know, alea jacta est.

[Fflewduur]

Jeez...is someone getting paid by the word?

[Fflewduur]

Okay, I'll bite.

Helvetian, your posts contain much information that is misleading, misstated, or simply incorrect. Anyone who might actually be concerned by the content of your contributions need only consider the following:

BD has more studio support, more player support, more players sold, and more discs sold, yet your conclusion about the format war is that

...while for a long time it looked like Blu-ray would win, <b>it’s 50:50 now</b>

---an estimation which has no basis beyond the realm of your imagination.

Never let the facts stand in the way of a good rant.

[Helvetian]

Okay, I'll bite.

Helvetian, your posts contain much information that is misleading, misstated, or simply incorrect. Anyone who might actually be concerned by the content of your contributions need only consider the following:

BD has more studio support, more player support, more players sold, and more discs sold, yet your conclusion about the format war is that

...while for a long time it looked like Blu-ray would win, <b>it’s 50:50 now</b>

---an estimation which has no basis beyond the realm of your imagination.

Never let the facts stand in the way of a good rant.

Is that your best refute? Anything for people to actually consider? Please enlighten us all and prove me wrong. You'd be naive to think it's that simple. Studio support is relatively even, three versus four; that doesn't seem like a real big difference. More hardware support yes, but why haven't we seen the holy grail of competition? Low prices and innovation then?! Why would anyone care that they could choose between 6 brands, if all are over priced anyway?

More players sold, not quite. Over 2M are PS3's and most studios are not interested in a game console. HD DVD leads in dedicated player sales. And yes more discs sold, I believe 4M Blu-rays versus 2.7M HD DVDs. However factor in that Blu-ray has 2M more capable players on the market and the number suddenly seems less impressive. That's because HD DVD has a higher attach rate.

I think you have your nickers in a bunch, your first post asserts whether I am getting paid by the word and now you offer no insight, only to state that I've mislead and yet fail to identify how. I have cited sources, and have not ill-informed anyone regarding the war.

Oh yes, I am being paid $25,000 per word posted here.

[2099net]

When all is said and done, this thread is posted in the specific Disney area of the forum. By virtue of Disney supporting Blu-ray and showing no signs of supporting HD DVD then I'm sure to the majority of readers of this forum, Blu-ray has "won".

But I repeat - both formats have their pros and cons. Both formats have their exclusive movies. Both formats have reached a point (IMO) where they are viable - not only for the short term future but even if one of them stopped releasing discs today, I would still say it was worth tracking down a player - be it a cheap Toshiba if HD DVD dies or a PS3 is Blu-ray dies. Note: I am in no way suggesting either format is going to "die" by saying that.

Who's the best arguments, which inevitabily end up with each side determined to "smackdown" the other format and thus present both in a less than favourable light are more damaging than simply two formats having the "nerve" to present a choice (or given studio support, a semi-choice as it turns out)

[Helvetian]

I agree 2099, I just let people decides for themselves. You're right both are great formats. We all hope the war ends soon.

[Fflewduur]

It [Hd-DVD] also has a mandatory back-up, which legally allows you to make a back-up of the film should it become damaged, etc. Blu-ray does not.

There are a couple problems with that statement; first off, there's no "there" there. This "mandatory back-up" plan exists on paper but doesn't yet have much significance in the real world. What you're referring to is <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Managed_Co ... y">Managed Copy</a>, a provision of the Advanced Access Content System (AACS) standard for DRM and content distribution:

Possible scenarios for Managed Copy include (but are not limited to):
• Create an exact duplicate onto a recordable disc for backup
• Create a full-resolution copy for storage on a media server
• Create a scaled-down version for watching on a portable device

You'll note it says "possible scenarios" in the quote. That's because the specs for the AACS standard have yet to be finalized, and figuring out how to manage Managed Copy is one reason why. At the moment there's no standard mechanism or delivery system in place to provide what Managed Copy promises, although some studios have begun experimenting with measures that would fulfill MC's mandate; Fox & Warner, for example, have recently included WMV versions inside DVD editions of Die Hard 4 and Harry Potter 5.

TWICE: 20th Century Fox recently announced that it will add a "Digital Copy" version of "Die Hard 4" to a two-disc special-edition DVD release due on Nov. 20. Purchasers can use the WMV version to transfer to PCs and portable media players without breaking CSS copy protection. Will Disney offer similar options?

Chapek: Absolutely. We plan to begin that around the middle of next year. I think you can look at it one of two ways. It's either a half-step to a true digital rights management managed copy world, or you can say if two of the biggest problems with downloading movies is storage space and download time, it solves both of those pretty well. Either way you look at it, it is going to be a real nifty interim step, or it is going to be the way the majority of consumers get their digital content.

(Story <a href="http://www.twice.com/article/CA6503907. ... 9">here</a>.)

Chapek is Walt Disney Home Entertainment president Bob Chapek, by the way. Which brings me to the second problem with your statement:

Managed copy...is mandatory for content providers to give the consumer this flexibility in both the HD DVD and the Blu-ray standards (commonly called Mandatory Managed Copy).

(From the same <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Managed_Co ... >Wikipedia entry</a> referenced earlier.)

So, to recap: You've bolstered your argument for HD-DVD's superiority with an HD-DVD-exclusive feature that (a) doesn't yet exist in any meaningful way, and (b) is mandatory for Blu-Ray and not exclusive to HD-DVD at all.

Which makes it look like either you're willing to parrot someone else's talking points without doing homework, or you're willing to disseminate false information knowingly. Either way, I don't see much point in debating under those circumstances. I just want other readers to know they might want to take your perspective with large quantities of salt.

[Helvetian]

Which makes it look like either you're willing to parrot someone else's talking points without doing homework, or you're willing to disseminate false information knowingly. Either way, I don't see much point in debating under those circumstances. I just want other readers to know they might want to take your perspective with large quantities of salt.

I take it that was the only thing you had to say? Can you dispute anything else? Perhaps like the details about the figures, the studios, the decisions, the pricing? The war? You're right about Managed Copy, I know all about it. However I chose not to go into the details, as I didn't for the other talking points as well. You make it sound as though my entire position is based on that one point, read again; it goes fay beyond that. Originally it was just HD DVD, however Blu-ray's BDA (as always) later implements features to the BD spec to match HD DVD.

As I stated, take everything with a grain of salt therefore making your statements completely redundant. Unlike everyone here thus far, I have provided some links and encourage people to pursue their own research to ascertain more details. You further your arguement as though I stated my previous posts were definitive and the final matter on the subject. However this is completely incorrect. I want people to read, so they can understand for themselves.

Care to enlighten us about the war? Am I wrong about the profiles? lossless audio? 1080p? the capacities? The studios? Did I ill-inform anyone by saying existing Blu-ray standalones won't support new features set to be found on Narnia and Nemo in 2008? Am I wrong about the high pricing despite several leading hardware manufacturers? Please let's debate and discuss the crux of the war. I'm very eager to hear your thoughts on the matter.

[Fflewduur]

You're right about Managed Copy, I know all about it. However I chose not to go into the details, as I didn't for the other talking points as well. You make it sound as though my entire position is based on that one point, read again; it goes fay beyond that. Originally it was just HD DVD, however Blu-ray's BDA (as always) later implements features to the BD spec to match HD DVD.

Yes, I know I'm right about Managed Copy. Saying that you "chose not to go into the details" is inaccurate. If you "know all about it" and chose to misrepresent the facts anyway---by saying BD's specs do not include provisions for Managed Copy, when Managed Copy is actually mandatory for BD---that's called LYING, which makes you a LIAR. Saying that "originally it was just HD-DVD" and that the "BDA (as always) later implements features...to match HD-DVD" doesn't excuse you: the <a href="http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press ... a.html">HP press release</a> about the BDA adopting Managed Copy is 2 years and 2 days old, it isn't something that happened in between your posts.

I picked out just two dozen words of yours that were full of crap, called you on it, and now you've admitted that you lied. I don't have to discredit every point made by an admitted liar to impeach your credibility, and there's no value in debating someone with so little respect for the truth.

[Helvetian]

Yes, I know I'm right about Managed Copy. Saying that you "chose not to go into the details" is inaccurate. If you "know all about it" and chose to misrepresent the facts anyway---by saying BD's specs do not include provisions for Managed Copy, when Managed Copy is actually mandatory for BD---that's called LYING, which makes you a LIAR.

From the moment you first posted your sarcastic payment comment, I knew you were going to be trouble. Your ill-intentions are quite clear, in your vain effort to discredit me and focus on minimal issues rather than the big picture.

Regarding BD, I fairly state I am no expert on the format. However as I understand it, Managed Copy was not something that was planned from the start. It was one of Microsoft’s demands along with HDi over Java, BDA refused. I stated this is truly unimportant compared to the grand scheme of things such as hardware costs, functionality, studio support and vendors. Can we discuss these?

Saying that "originally it was just HD-DVD" and that the "BDA (as always) later implements features...to match HD-DVD" doesn't excuse you:

That comment refers to the Profiles, Blu-ray launched with 1.0. HD DVD launched with everything mandatory including persistent storage, Ethernet port, dual video and audio decoders, etc. Blu-ray is only now implementing these hardware minimums in the form of Profiles and unfortunately for standalone owners, there is no upgrade available. Can you dispute this?

I picked out just two dozen words of yours that were full of crap, called you on it, and now you've admitted that you lied. I don't have to discredit every point made by an admitted liar to impeach your credibility, and there's no value in debating someone with so little respect for the truth.

I didn’t admit to lying, at worse my crime was a bit of ignorance regarding BD’s Managed Copy position. However as I stated, I encourage people to ascertain their own information. I provided several links, although it’s quite easy to research this on your own. The key here is that despite what some say, Blu-ray hasn’t won the war and it’s not ending anytime soon.

It’s somewhat disingenuous to suggest that I have intentionally fabricated, and ill-mannered to question my character and call me a liar. A liar is someone who tells lies with intent, I have done no such thing. My credibility remains intact, and I wish you would debate the points rather than repeatedly attack me. So can we get back on track and discuss it? Maybe I ask too much of you. I know it's quite difficult to resist the troll urge inside of you, but please try your best.

Oh I see you’re too good to debate; how pretentious. Nevertheless this pompous attitude only signifies one thing: you can’t dispute the information and sought an easy exit from the discussion. That's perfectly fine with me, I don't think too highly or discussing things with arrogant individuals anyway. Cheerio