Disney Debates: #1 Snow White should be redubbed for blu-ray

[MK Sharp]

But in the Blu-Ray example we're hypothetically discussing, at least everybody would be aware the original existed and it would easily be available.

As far as I'm concerned, the Blu-Ray Snow White can have all sorts of amendments - Put the soup eating bit in! Re-record the orchestral score in 7.1 surround! Revoice Snow White! Add snazzy CGI glows and effects to the magic! Do anything they can. But make sure the original is also on the disc. It's state of the art technology. Use it.

Funny, I was considered my response to this thread, and "Put the soup-eating bit in!" was exactly what was in my mind. And the bed-building sequence, for that matter - and the song You're Never Too Old To Be Young as well, as part of a newly recorded score and soundtrack. Why not give the film a working over to present it as an alternative version - an alternative, mind, not to be considered definitive.

As long as the original 1937 version is also presented in the package intact, I see absolutely no problem in having a bit of fun with the source materials to create something new.

[Chernabog_Rocks]

I say leave it be, if it ain't broke don't fix it Sure it's an old film but why update it every 70 years? If we continually update it will there be anything left of the original? For me if we did keep updating things in it we'd just have a pale copy of what it once was.

As for those deleted scenes, did any stop and think why they are called DELETED scenes??? They were removed from the final film for a reason, not just so we can go and add them in 70 years later just to experiment

If we change the audio, why not change other aspects? If we did we wouldn't have Snow White anymore, it would be like Frankensteins monster, an original part here, an added piece there (yes it might be a bad example but it's the best I've got right now).

If we take away the original voices we'll lose a part of the film, besides would you really want some tween star's doing the voices and ruining the film? We could end up with something even WORSE than what we had originally!

[2099net]

As for those deleted scenes, did any stop and think why they are called DELETED scenes??? They were removed from the final film for a reason, not just so we can go and add them in 70 years later just to experiment

We're getting into a tangent here, but one of my biggest disappointments with the new High-Def formats is (until now) we never got branching. And I agree deleted scenes are normally deleted for a reason. It seems insane that on High-Def we can - for example - only get the extended version of Ghost Rider. I've no idea if the theatrical version is better (being as I've not been given chance to see it) - but given on the commentary even the director seems indifferent to the extended cut edit I guess it proabably is. But more than just getting the theatrical cut or the extended cut, I would want the disc to offer both.

Thankfully, it appears both formats (in particular Blu-Ray) are now experimenting with branching and alternative versions.

If we take away the original voices we'll lose a part of the film, besides would you really want some tween star's doing the voices and ruining the film? We could end up with something even WORSE than what we had originally!

Yes, we could. But the original would still be there. It's literally a no lose situation. There is absolutely nothing to complain about because you win because you get the exact original film to the best of its visual and audio presentation, and in addition you may or may not win again by getting another version on the same disc.

As for the star selection I'm sure Disney would do more than just pick a "hot" name from their circle of non-stars. And no matter who does the vicoe, they can always surprise. I bought the Ant Bully for no real reason than to see another CGI movie in High-Def.

I didn't think it would be that good, and I certainly didn't think Julia Roberts voice work would be any good. But you know what? Not only was it a cracking film, but Julia's voice work was perfect - I was absolutely surprised and delighted with her work. (As an aside, its a shame Julia isn't lined up to do more voice work for animation).

[MK Sharp]

If we continually update it will there be anything left of the original? For me if we did keep updating things in it we'd just have a pale copy of what it once was.

Good thing Walt Disney never got the chance to keep updating Fantasia every couple of years, as he originally intended, as it's such a bad idea.

As for those deleted scenes, did any stop and think why they are called DELETED scenes??? They were removed from the final film for a reason

IIRC, they were removed to keep the film as short as possible because there was a fear that audiences wouldn't sit through a cartoon that long. Since that fear has since been proven false, there's no reason why a very charming little scene couldn't be included in an alternative, secondary, complementary version of the film.

If we take away the original voices we'll lose a part of the film

Not if, as Netty and I have both said, you ensure that the original version of the film, complete and untampered with, is included in the package. In fact, I suspect the reason Netty and I are both quite comfortable with the idea of including an alternative version is because we're both notorious Dr Who enthusiasts, and have seen on Dr Who DVDs that this can be successfully done whilst still treating the original source material with the respect it deserves.

[2099net]

Not if, as Netty and I have both said, you ensure that the original version of the film, complete and untampered with, is included in the package. In fact, I suspect the reason Netty and I are both quite comfortable with the idea of including an alternative version is because we're both notorious Dr Who enthusiasts, and have seen on Dr Who DVDs that this can be successfully done whilst still treating the original source material with the respect it deserves.

<can of worms>Unless its a floating spanner!</can of worms>

Actually MK Sharp is correct. The Doctor Who DVDs have remixed 5.1 soundtracks - sometimes with new dialogue stems recorded especially for odd missing aural takes, but the original soundtracks are always available. Likewise, some Doctor Who DVDs occasionally have new special effects to replace the old ones, but again the original is always available on the same disc (and the original is the default option).

And these are for discs which sell around 50-70,000 copies. Imagine what Disney could do on a disc that would well millions, on technology much more advanced.

[blackcauldron85]

Are you guys implying that just Snow White's voice should be changed, or those of the Queen, the dwarfs, the huntsman, andthe prince, as well?

I just don't see the point of redubbing the film. I mean, people could always have the closed-captioning on when Snow White's on the screen. It's almost like redoing the dialogue and adding some modern-day speak in there (The hag to Snow White: "Would you like a rad red apple? It's the boom diggity."). It's an older movie, and its a product of its period. People need to appreciate the classics.

[MK Sharp]

Likewise, some Doctor Who DVDs occasionally have new special effects to replace the old ones, but again the original is always available on the same disc (and the original is the default option).

There's also The Curse Of Fenric, which is a two disc set. The first disc contains the four part serial as originally broadcast in 1989, duly restored as normal. The second disc has a new version of the story, edited into one long movie and containing a lot of material that was cut for time reasons. Some scenes have been chopped up and re-arranged. The soundtrack has been significantly rebuilt in 5.1 with a re-recorded score, the vision has been heavily regraded and new visual effects have been added. It's a far cry from the original, but because the original was also included, it's not a problem.

<can of worms>Unless its a floating spanner!</can of worms>

"Look out Delta - here come the Spannermen - and they look angry!"

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Anyway, what about Bedknobs And Broomsticks? That had large chunks cut out of it before it went into general release, most of which have been re-instated for the DVD release - and with some of the audio overdubbed with new actors!

[Escapay]

Anyway, what about Bedknobs And Broomsticks? That had large chunks cut out of it before it went into general release, most of which have been re-instated for the DVD release - and with some of the audio overdubbed with new actors!

Oy, don't get me started on the audio overdub for Charles! It's abysmal! I always cringe whenever I hear him say "mango wuzzle?"

I for one, wouldn't mind if they re-dub Bedknobs to fix the inconsistencies in the voices for Charles, Paul, and Mrs. Hobday (who's got a different accent in the new scene dubs).

As for the whole "Redubbing The Shrill", I'm all for it, it'll be a new and exciting novelty and make excellent use of the advantages that Hi-Def discs offers. So long as the original is available as well. Also, let's not forget that Disney does remixes of the original audio as well, upping it to 5.1 and even remixing the 5.1 into a DEHTM. But they still keep the original mixes, well, except for the Platinum of The Little Mermaid. It lost its original English 5.1 in favor of the DEHTM 5.1. I'm glad the originals are included, as I *hated* the DEHTM 5.1 on Mary Poppins, and make sure to select the original stereo before playing the movie.

And adding to the Doctor Who discussion, I recently watched Revelation of the Daleks with the new CGI effects and enjoyed it immensely.

Scaps

[Disneykid]

Anyway, what about Bedknobs And Broomsticks? That had large chunks cut out of it before it went into general release, most of which have been re-instated for the DVD release - and with some of the audio overdubbed with new actors!

True, but just like with the Deems Taylor narration from Fantasia, a lot of the audio for Bedknobs was lost, so it was either redub the missing lines, present the new footage silently, or leave it out altogether. In other words, it was a necessity, not a cosmetic choice like with the theoretical Snow White dub.

[2099net]

True, but just like with the Deems Taylor narration from Fantasia, a lot of the audio for Bedknobs was lost, so it was either redub the missing lines, present the new footage silently, or leave it out altogether. In other words, it was a necessity, not a cosmetic choice like with the theoretical Snow White dub.

Well, it wasn't a "necessity" in integrate the footage into the film in the 1st place. And being as they did, it would be nice of them to include the widely seen general release edit as well.

[Ariel'sprince]

As for the whole "Redubbing adorable Snow White", I'm all for it, it'll be a new and exciting novelty and make excellent use of the advantages that Hi-Def discs offers.

Oh,i know,Hannah Montana will redubb Snow White or some slutish 12 years old singer! oh wait,also Zack Braff will redubb The Prince and those kids who voiced Air Buddies will redubb the dwarfs! wait! why whould anyone want to watch Snow White? let's watch Air Buddies or Hannah Montana!.
Seriously,this is a classic movie from 70 years ago,change her voice will change Snow White into something she's not,you can't change her voice,it's like giving Aurora's voice to Mulan or giving Belle's voice to Cinderella,can you imagine Mulan talk in Aurora's voice? it whould be afwal,it's the same like giving Snow White a new voice.

[SpringHeelJack]

Hannah Montana is hardly a "slutish 12 year old singer". As girl pop stars I'd want my metaphorical dughter listening to, she would easily top my list as she has yet to appear nude, flash her bits, or go to rehab.

That said, who's to say they wouldn't actually have someone fitting do it? Broadway has a wealth of excellent young performers who could easily do the role.

Anyhow, as long as the original audio is there, I don't care. I might actually watch the movie more if her voice was tolerable and less shrill/cloying.

[Ariel'sprince]

Hannah Montana is hardly a "slutish 12 year old singer". As girl pop stars I'd want my metaphorical dughter listening to, she would easily top my list as she has yet to appear nude, flash her bits, or go to rehab.

That said, who's to say they wouldn't actually have someone fitting do it? Broadway has a wealth of excellent young performers who could easily do the role.

Anyhow, as long as the original audio is there, I don't care. I might actually watch the movie more if her voice was tolerable and less shrill/cloying.

When i said "Slutish 12 years old singer\whatever" i mean someone like Paris Hilton,not Hannah Montana.
No,they can't,Change her voice will ruin her,did you saw the Disneyland Snow White show? i saw clips and they ruined her with some ugly voice,her voice is a part of her character,it's like giving Aurora's voice to Mulan.
The original audio won't be there if it will be redubb and i hope Disney won't even think about such a bad idea like redubb it.

[2099net]

The original audio won't be there if it will be redubb and i hope Disney won't even think about such a bad idea like redubb it.

Why wouldn't the original audio be there if they redub? They include the original soundtracks on DVDs that they've remixed to 5.1*, and having the original soundtrack on these discs is much less of a requirement than if they do a complete new dub, because the changes are far less drastic.

* Apart from Mary Poppins apparently. A spoonful of sugar didn't help that medicine go down for Escapay.

[Jack Skellington]

Well I think if they made the original and re-dubbing soundtrack as options in the audio settings menu, then it would be ok.
But here are the actors that I would pick as opossed to Miley Cyrus and Zac Efron :

Amanda Bynes ~ Snow White (Plays Sydney White, a modern remake)
Angelina Jolie ~ The Queen (Intelligent and Sultry !)
Patrick Wilson ~ The Prince (He plays Roul in The Phantom of the Opera)

And just for the heck of it I also want to recast Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty !

Scarlett Johansson ~ Cinderella (Great Deep Voice,and already wore Cinderella's costume for a WDW promo)
Sussan Sarandon ~ Lady Tremaine
Paris Hilton ~ Drizilla (desperate to sing but can break glass, and she's a mean girl, BIG TIME ! )
Lindsay Lohan ~ Anastasia ( She's Evil too !)
Julie Andrews ~ Fairy Godmother
Ewan McGregor ~ Prince Charming
Mice ~ Bee Gees (They're Still Stayin Alive Right ?)

Emmy Rossom ~ Aurora (Beautiful singing voice in The Phantom of the Opera)
Prince Phillip ~ Richard Gere
Michelle Pfeiffer ~ Maleficent
Fauna ~ Meryl Streep
Flora ~ Barbra Steisand
Merryweather ~ Judi Dench

Sorry, I was bored !

[Atlantica]

It would be just horrid if they did redub it. I think, in fact I know, I would loose so much respect for Disney. If they redub 'Snow White', then I can almost be 100% sure they will then do the same for all the rest of Disney's Classics.

I don't agree that as they have the ability to make Snow White a 'better' movie, it doesnt give them the right to actually go through with it.

I feel so sorry for people who live in countries where their dubbings are tampered with every few years; that must really, really suck.

But, if you look at various Disney trailers, they are quite often dubbed over. The TV spots for Peter Pan were dubbed over here in the UK. Snow White has been voiced by a few actresses since the origninal (Look at Disney Villians post), and Melissa Disney has done her the most justice, I feel.

I don't find her voice annoying at all! I went back and watched the movie when this topic was posted, to see what I felt about it, and Snow White is such an appealing character. Her voice isnt shrill at all; only when she sings 'Someday .." is when her voice gets quite high.

But 'Music In Your Soup' is a nice posibility; after all, all the audio and animation is there, so I presume all they would need to do is paint it in? I'm no expert, but it seems as if most of the work on that is done.

Here is an example of 'Snow White' being dubbed over in the trailer for the last re-release of the movie:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... &plindex=2

[Ariel'sprince]

I don't find her voice annoying at all! I went back and watched the movie when this topic was posted, to see what I felt about it, and Snow White is such an appealing character. Her voice isnt shrill at all; only when she sings 'Someday .." is when her voice gets quite high.

Agreed,i also don't think that her voice is shrill or annyoing.

[Chernabog_Rocks]

Just because the Hi-Def disc's have all these advantages doesn't mean we should go and tamper with movies that are fine the way they are. If these advantages are so great why not concentrate on using them on all the new movies coming out instead? I think using all new actors wouldn't work at all, it just wouldn't feel like Snow White anymore, the characters wouldn't sound the same and their voices are as much associated with them as their clothes, personalities etc.

At least Dopey would sound the same

[kurtadisneyite]

Wrt redubbing; Absolutely not.

SNOW WHITE is what it is. Completely changing the cast would destroy subtleties of character interplay that give the film its unique audio touches.

Cleaning it up (visually and audio noise wise) is fine.

A better answer to the audio limitations is sampling other performances of the actors on higher quality media, and using that as a guide to "reshape" the current film's audio spectrum.

We already have some cases where "restored films" were altered in terms of color value (Cinderella 1 character colors a good example - Cinderella III, of all things, is more accurate !). That is not good.

[Jules]

But 'Music In Your Soup' is a nice posibility; after all, all the audio and animation is there, so I presume all they would need to do is paint it in? I'm no expert, but it seems as if most of the work on that is done.

I think that for them to reinsert 'Music In Your Soup', they'll need the original hand-drawn animation on paper, which they might not have anymore. If they do have it however, I expect all they'd need to do is to paint the backgrounds and scan the original pencil animation into a digital ink and paint software system like CAPS and add the backgrounds (a very simple overview of what they could do - I expect it's much more complex). The problem with this system is that CAPS would undoubtedly contrast with the rest of the film. Ideally, they would not use CAPS, but get a real animation camera for the process and hand ink the animation on cels. But they probably don't even have the equipment for that anymore.