Broadway Discussion Series: Wicked

[SpringHeelJack]

For sheer enjoyment, "Drowsy" is the way to go. "Sweeney" is some heavy stuff, but it's done so well, almost like a tragic opera (though it's not fully sung or anything). If you've never seen the movie "My Fair LAdy", I'd suggest you rent it to get a feel. Otherwise, "Drowsy" probably is your best bet. It's so cute.

[Anthony]

I'm sorry, but what does any of this have to do with Wicked?

[TheSequelOfDisney]

I'm sorry, but what does any of this have to do with Wicked?

Well, I started out by saying that I am definitly going to see "Wicked," but then, besides creating a new thread, I just asked about the other musicals were coming to Cincinnati and see which ones would be worth seeing.

We can go back now to discussing "Wicked" now. I told my mom that if I just start singing "Defying Gravity" to not stop me because I wouldn't be able to help it.

[Anthony]

I'm sorry, but what does any of this have to do with Wicked?

Well, I started out by saying that I am definitly going to see "Wicked," but then, besides creating a new thread, I just asked about the other musicals were coming to Cincinnati and see which ones would be worth seeing.

Oh, I see.

We can go back now to discussing "Wicked" now.

It's okay, you don't have to stop your conversation on my account. I was just wondering.

I told my mom that if I just start singing "Defying Gravity" to not stop me because I wouldn't be able to help it.

I know!! I did the same thing with all the songs by the 3rd time I went to see it. Singing very quietly in my seat like a nerd!!

So do you know when the exact date is that you're going to see it?

You'll love it!!!

[SpringHeelJack]

Uh, try hard not to sing during the show. Nothing sucks as much as paying $100+ for tickets, then having someone sing the show next to you. Well, almost nothing.

[TheSequelOfDisney]

So do you know when the exact date is that you're going to see it?

No, I'm not exactly sure, but it comes to Cincinnati Jan. 9 through Feb. 3, so sometime in there.

Uh, try hard not to sing during the show. Nothing sucks as much as paying $100+ for tickets, then having someone sing the show next to you. Well, almost nothing.

I wasn't going to sing loudly!!! Besides, my mom gets this offer thingy so that the tickets cost a bit more than what is should, but the seats are phenomenal! When I went to see TLK, the ticket cost $90, when it was really only $80. However I was in "CORCH G 218," which was close to the stage, but not too close where you see the actors sweat

So yeah, I won't sing loudly, just softly, in a whisper.

[TheSequelOfDisney]

Okay, I found this hilarious video on YouTube. It's "Popular" except for Glinda it's Kate Monster and Elphaba is Trekkie Monster, both from Avenue Q. Enjoy, it cracked me up!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn8p1aBv ... ed&search=

[TheSequelOfDisney]

All right, I know everyone has an opinion! So, who is your favorite Elphaba and Galinda/Glinda? I'm quite interested as to who everyone says. So, please discuss. I'll comment later, I have to go.

[Ting Ting]

Uh, try hard not to sing during the show. Nothing sucks as much as paying $100+ for tickets, then having someone sing the show next to you. Well, almost nothing.

That's just like when I went to see The Producers! These two women next to me were laughing hysterically the entire time, only not just laughing. Apparently they also thought it was necessary to yell, "OH MY GOSH! WASN'T THAT FUNNY?!?! OH MY GOSH! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!" as they rocked back-and-forth in their seats. The show was great, except for those two who thought they were the show.

P.S.
I know that's not what you're going to do, Sequel. SpringHeelJack's comment just made me think of that.

[Anthony]

All right, I know everyone has an opinion! So, who is your favorite Elphaba and Galinda/Glinda?

Favorite Elphaba: Shoshana Bean
Favorite Glinda: Megan Hilty

[Dottie]

Favorite Elphaba: Eden Espinosa or Kerry Ellis (love Idina though)
Favorite Glinda: Kristin Chenoweth (Megan Hilty is second)

[Cierra_Dancer]

All right, I know everyone has an opinion! So, who is your favorite Elphaba and Galinda/Glinda? I'm quite interested as to who everyone says. So, please discuss. I'll comment later, I have to go.

Idina and Helen with JLT as a close second.

Idina is just amazing, both acting and singing. On Bway she was off a lot, but that doesn't take away what I think of her. For her, while she sounds great on bootlegs, she has one of those voices that are just way better live. When I saw her I couldn't keep my eyes off of her whenever she was on stage. She glowed.

Helen is a great actor, she played Glinda very well. She also has a pretty good voice,I saw Helen when she was a little ill and she was still great. Her acting is just what won me over for her, and her "toss, toss." She was just great.

[supertalies]

I haven't seen the musical (except on youtube)
and I really LOVE it..
But I live in Holland and that isn't next to the door....
But I hope it will come to Holland some day (3 years or something)
Tarzan is also playing (it follows BatB and TLK)
Only haven't seen any of the , I've never seen a musical...
And the theatre is very close, I could walk to there.
But enough of my lifestory, I like the songs.
My favourites are Defying Grafity ,Dancing trough life and No One Mourns the Wicked is also very nice.
Popular ia also very funny.
But I'm going to see you...

Byebye

[Disney Duster]

All right, I know everyone has an opinion! So, who is your favorite Elphaba and Galinda/Glinda? I'm quite interested as to who everyone says. So, please discuss. I'll comment later, I have to go.

Are we gonna here your opinion?

Favorite Elphaba: Eden Espinosa or Kerry Ellis (love Idina though)
Favorite Glinda: Kristin Chenoweth (Megan Hilty is second)

Wow, you're very close to my own opinions. I feel Kerry Ellis is the best Elphaba. Her singing is definately the best and most powerful and she's never off, her voice only seems prone to cracking on "I'm flying high deFYing gravity", but that doesn't lessen her incredible singing any. Then, maybe Eden Espinosa is my second favorite, but I don't know. She's always great, but I think if Idina would sing like she does on the CD live, then I would like Idina more. I'm not sure, because I like Eden's lower more angry voice than Idina's kind of childish one. But I don't think I've heard any Idina clips where she sounds as good in Defying Gravity as she does on the CD. Yet, her No Good Deed is awesome. And she is good acting the part, too. But Eden will always be special to me because she's the one I saw live, and I was blown away and really felt the power of the songs.

As for Glinda, definately Kristin Chenowith. Wow. She's just great. I'm afraid I think she overpowers Idina in the show with her always perfect singing and her stage presence. I always feeling like she's upstaging Idina. And like Eden, Kate Reinders, who I saw live, will always be special to me. Loved her memorable entrance in the bubble, and her really goofy Popular.

Just for examples of Kerry Ellis' amazingness, listen to some of her best with a Defying Gravity and No Good Deed from when she stoodby for Idina in London. She may have changed the way she sings the song when Idina left to come into her own take on the character, but I won't doubt her voice is always this lovely. In Defying Gravity I love her "lost" "cost" "happy in the end" "look to the western sky" and the whole end of the song, all extra amazing highlights from her amazing singing. And No Good Deed is exceptional all throughout.

Anyway, to SpringHeelJack and whoever thought the lyrics weren't too great and could have been thought up in one day, I ask you to reconsider, and take another look. Spoilers go for those of you who haven't listened to the CD or seen the musical. I’m warning you, the musical has some surprises even for those who read the book that you won’t want to ruin.

Rather than give you all the lyrics, I’m merely quoting the lyrics that I directly refer to. I'll only do a few songs:

First is "No One Mourns the Wicked", which, as just the title presents, is so true and pretty sad. We don't feel bad for people who we hate, but death is such a horrible thing, should we ever wish for someone to be dead? Should we ever celebrate their death? Just these lyrics alone: "Good news! She's dead!" are downright disturbing to me. The music reflects this contrast of happiness and tragedy simultaneously, because death should be tragedy but instad it is something happy (though I admit, it somewhat contradicts Elphaba's murder in the book of Madame Morrible, whom she had no remorse for, but she was near death anyway) And I thought it was kind of clever with the lyrics: Through [the wicked's] lives, our children learn: What we miss when we miss behave." How true. Children's entertainment, like The Wizard of Oz, and many Disney movies, has villains acting in ways we don't want our children to act. We use them to teach children they are bad. But why is it that we teach that the powerful women who don't care for romance are the villains, and the passive princesses looking for a prince are the good role-models? I'm just using that as an example that we use villains to teach children what we don't what them to do, and that is manipulative.

“And Goodness knows…” this is a small thing that will show up later, but it hints once again that our fates are predetermined, and the fact that they are determined by goodness suggests heavenly or religious determination, like God decided what’s good or bad. Ever felt, perhaps in rejecting some religion, that it is you who should determine what is or isn’t good, not some book, or some invisible force?

“The wicked die alone” reflects that even though Glinda knew the Wizard was up to something, she didn’t join her in helping stop him and saving the citizens of Oz (at least the Animals). It also mirrors how in life, when people go against the grain, what is popular belief, they are ridiculed, sometimes their ideas are seen as wicked (like the straight play of Spring Awakening was banned for sexuality), and they often go it alone, or in few numbers, against the overwhelming majority who want to keep their stereotypes, beliefs, and traditions. In the original book, it almost goes with how many believed in the Unnamed God, except Elphaba.

Then Glinda says, "Are people born wicked?" and that alone is powerful, despite the fact that SpringHeelJack thought it was thrown in. Elphaba was born with green skin, and though it's not the same as being born with the will to do evil, what if it's something that inevitably would turn her into what she was, because the green skin was so integral to how people reacted to her the rest of her life. And what if it goes deeper? What about people being born gay? Christians like to debate that it's a choice, but most gay people I've talked to say it's not and I believe it's not. So if they're born that way, and Christians perceive homosexuality in itself as wicked...it hits home, to me anyway. I remember one Christian man telling me he thought people were born gay to a couple because of the evil those parents had done, and that maybe gay men were born with a girl's brain (if they're girly). I can't get into it, but I'm just using that to illustrate my point.

In "The Wizard and I", Madame Morrible says, "If you work as you should--you'll be making good." We teach people what they should do, instill in the certain beliefs of what good is, and what it means to do it. When Morrible says "good", the music actually sounds rather foreboding and not so good. Elphaba sings, "When I meet the Wizard. What I've waited for since-since birth!" How sad, Elphaba feels burdened since the time she was born, because of how she was born. And that ever since birth she felt so horrible, she wanted to meet the Wizard to change her! Usually it takes a few years before people decide they want to get a sex or cosmetic change. "Unlimited. My future is unlimited." That's what people tell us, that we can do whatever we put our mind to, but with the soft, not particularly hopeful and kind of mysterious melody playing, this musical points out that the way we are born, or maybe or genes, could limit our futures.

I used to not really like “The Wizard and I”, but I’ve learned to like it when I realized it’s more of a sad song about Elphaba’s hopes and dreams which are doomed to be dashed, and the predictions she makes about her future will come true in unexpectedly horrible ways. “But I’ll swear, someday there’ll be a celebration throughout Oz that’s all to do with me.” This line really struck me, because of the previous “No One Mourns the Wicked”. There will be a celebration about her - a celebration of her death. I know the “I’ll be so happy I could melt” sounds cheesy and makes the song’s prophesizing subtext obvious, but I also caught “When people see me, they will scream”, which I like. And something I thought was thoughtful was the lyric, “And I’ll want nothing else till I die”, which reflects how we often think we’ll want something forever, but instead of doing some more predicting, they show that our dreams can be severely crushed when we find out what we wanted is not what we wanted. Elphaba was far more shocked than Dorothy to find out the Wizard was a fake. She found out the Wizard was no mere humbug, but an actual threat.

“Dancing Through Life” is, of course, a song about superficiality and not thinking. No need of brain or soul in a gorgeous body. And speaking of brain, “Life’s more painless for the brainless” is a foreshadowing of Fiyero’s straw incarnation, and maybe you groaned at that because it seemed obvious and you didn’t like how Fiyero ended up…or that Fiyero was so changed from the book at all, which I comply with, but foreshadowing is still a smart literary device.

But what’s even smarter (ironically for a song about not thinking) is that this song is teaching a philosophy, and a pretty poignant one: if we’re all going to die, why make life worse than it has to be? Why try winning at life when you’ll end up dead in the end? This is something I myself have thought about, as well as a friend of mine who does in fact read, think, and excel in school (she’s in college now at 16). In fact, we’ve both come to the conclusion that if we’re all gonna die and there’s no soul or afterlife, nothing we do really matters. Fiyero says himself, “Nothing matters.” And eventually everyone sings, “Dancing through life, down at the Ozdust, if only because dust is what we come to.” Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Once again it’s related to religion, but we were made from the dust (Adam and Eve) and we return to it, crumbling into dust in our graves. I relate to it a lot from when I started doubting my religion, thinking that if there is no heaven and we’re all going to end up in the ground, what’s this charade of bothering to become something in life? In the end we become nothing.

But the song is not just about that. Galinda begins, “Now that we’ve met one another…” and Fiyero continues, “It’s clear—we deserve each other.” Basically, Galinda and Fiyero just met, and like each other. Why? Galinda: “Your Perfect.” Fiyero: “Your perfect.” Both: “So we’re perfect together.” Is this merely the usual meaningless love talk for people who fall in love quickly, or is it a remark on why popular, good-looking people hook up in real life: because they’re popular and good-looking, and that’s something they have in common. Think about it. If you’ve had a popular, beautiful life, you’re going to identify and share similar experiences with people who are popular and beautiful like you. Aside from that, just the fact that you’re good-looking might determine that you would think similarly to a person who is equally good-looking. My smart 16 and in college friend has read many books about biology and genes, and she told me good-looking people tend to be smart, because they have good genes. So I’m sure good-looking people would think more along the same lines and converse with good-looking people more easily than with someone ugly. “So we’re perfect together. Born to be forever.” Yes, once again the genes you are blessed with control your destiny, including your relationships. Weren’t they happy to be born with good bodies to hump other good bodies?

My analysis might hold a reason to use for every standard Disney princess romance of perfect being perfectly matched with perfect, but the comment on stock romance doesn’t stop there. When Boq tells Nessarose she’s beautiful, she sings, “We deserve each other, don’t we Boq?” And though it’s supposed to be a happy moment for her, it’s rather sad. Deserve can be taken either way as something good or bad. When we are good, we deserve reward, when we are bad, punishment. So what if Boq deserves Nessarose because he and her are both secondary characters, and he’s not perfect enough to deserve the grand prize he really wants, Galinda. I think it’s a comment on all those movies where the perfect leads fall in love, and then the hilarious, lesser sidekicks fall in love extremely quickly at the end of the film for heart-warming humor. The princess and the prince dance while the silly fat duchess gets chased by some skinny count. Boq and Nessarose are seen as something less than valuable to society, by height and by handicap, so they deserve each other. And then, in this song, I find it pretty funny that Galinda tells Elphaba that she and the pointy hat deserve each other as well. “This hat and you. You’re both so smart.”

“I’m Not That Girl” is supposed to be a sad song, and when you realize the sad truths it puts forth, I think it is. I remember that SpringHeelJack liked the German musical of “The Hunchback of Notre Dame.” That play is full of the message that no matter who you are inside, looks do matter, and someone who looks good is going to go with someone who looks good. Well, that certainly goes with Wicked. It’s true that later, Wicked sets out to say that the superfiality of beautiful people could drive away the people who were once interested in you to someone with something more, like an anti-government mission and a flying broom, but for the time being, this song says, “Don’t lose sight of who you are.”

“And Heaven knows…” Does God choose certain people to be evil or good, go to hell or heaven? Christianity teaches that we go to Hell because of our choosing, we choose to disobey, and thus not love or want to be with God. But if God knows everything and it’s all predetermined, and all in his control, in a sense, some people are just meant to go to hell. “I wasn’t born for the rose and pearl.” Once again, we are born one way or another, and some things about us we can’t change to excel in life or get the hunk. Genetics.

“Don’t wish. Don’t start. Wishing only wounds the heart.” It seems Elphaba really is smart, and she has learned a lesson from another musical, “Into the Woods”, which revealed the negatives of wishing. Instead of a mere “I want” song, this is a “Don’t want” song, which might be wise advice for people

I hate the Wizard, and I hate his songs, but I guess I hate “A Sentimental Man” less because it’s about him being the loving father Elphaba never had. What’s kind of gross is that it could be yet another religious thing, waiting for the day we go through the gates of heaven (Emerald City) and see our miraculous Father (The Wizard), and after the way Elphaba sang about him, I could see that connection. His talk of people getting the chance to fly may be all too obvious, but at least it puts another smart literary device, irony, in the play, as Elphaba flies but not the way he wants her too.

Oh look, “Defying Gravity”. I like how it opens with some purposely corny foreshadowing, “Why couldn’t you have stayed calm for once, instead of flying off the handle!” Broom handle, get it? Ha. And of course, it’s terrific the way the characters finally are up front about their personalities and differences, “I hope you think you’re clever” for the smart Elphaba, “You would grovel in submission to feed your own ambition” for Glinda. I don’t need to do much talking about this great song. “I don’t want it. No—I can’t want it” shows how Elphaba may still want to have her famous life with the Wizard, but she knows it is more right to have an infamous life working against him. I love how they respect each other’s opposing choices and wish each other happiness with the outcomes of those choices. “And if I’m flying solo, at least I’m flying free.” As Prudence said, sometimes we depend too much on the love from another person, but if we concentrate on ourselves, we can do wonderful things without love getting in our way. Only to be contradicted by “Just For This Moment”, but I like that song, and it's kind of clever how they talk about making up for lost time. Have you ever met someone you loved so much you wish you had been with them their whole life?

And that's all. Thanks for reading, if you did.

[Dottie]

Wow, an amazing analysis of some of the songs' lyrics. There some thing in there I had never thought about like the "..celebration throughout Oz that's all to do with me"

And that certainly was a lot of work typing all that!

[SpringHeelJack]

Quite the analysis. But other shows did it before "Wicked" and better. There's not much to analyze and look for double meanings there. You hear it, you think "Oh, so maybe wicked is a point of view or whatever" and you move it. It's all very blunt, very plain, and suited for the target audience. It's not like excessive listening to the lyrics will reveal stunning deeper meanings or anything that shouldn't be gleamed from the first listen. You want something to read into, look at the lyrics to "Company" or "Into the Woods" or basically any Sondheim show ("Company" being my favorite example, in that most of the songs are simply brilliant, so perfectly summing up the feelings about relationships between couples and other people. Look up "Sorry-Grateful" or "Being Alive").

And just because I like "Der Glockner" doesn't really mean I'm going to like every musical with a similar theme. A lot of my love for that show also comes from the fact that I really liked the movie as a nine year old. Admittedly, nine year olds don't have the most discriminating tastes. Today, I don't think the show is particularly brilliant, it just has some good melodies (courtesy of Alan Menken) and some decent enough lyrics. Stephen Schwartz can do okay lyrics. "Hunchback" has some decent stuff, while not of any amazing new insight, and I think "Pippin" serves its purpose well and has some nice turns of phrases in "With You" and "Corner of the Sky", but nothing to make Stephen Sondheim lose sleep at night. But there's a reason why the man hasn't won the Tony, and why "Wicked" lost to "Avenue Q", and it's not just politics.

I will admit, the show has some nice melodies. "As Long As Your Mine" has a good pop power-house feel to it and "For Good" has a nice two-part harmony, but you have to get past the cliche lyrics. I would probably like the show more had every nine-year-old girl who felt slightly misunderstood one day not latched onto "Defying Gravity" as her own personal anthem.

[TheSequelOfDisney]

All right, I know everyone has an opinion! So, who is your favorite Elphaba and Galinda/Glinda? I'm quite interested as to who everyone says. So, please discuss. I'll comment later, I have to go.

Are we gonna here your opinion?

Yes, you will have my opinion. Though I have heard most of the Elphie's sing, I cannot completely remember them. I do know, however, that Idina Menzel is my favorite Elphie. She has awesome talent and I believe that she is the best Elphaba. She was the one chosen to play the role, therefore the best for the job. I hate how people keep on saying Bean was perfect for the part and that Idina kept her from playing the role. That makes me upset! Idina was/is the best for the role. Anyway, my favorite Galinda/Glinda is definitely Kristin Chenoweth. She made that role come alive and she was the only person who could have played that role.

[Anthony]

While we are all talking about favorites, how about everyone listing their favorite songs from the show? Here are mine in order:

1. The Wizard and I (the best, I love everything about this song, plus it's played early in the show!)

2. Defying Gravity

3. Popular

4. For Good

5. What is This Feeling?

6. As Long as You're Mine

7. Dancing Through Life

8. One Short Day

9. No Good Deed

10. Thank Goodness

11. No One Mourns the Wicked

The worst songs:

1. A Sentimental Man

2. Finale

3. Dear Old Shiz

Looking forward to hearing everyone else's!

EDIT: I CANNOT believe that I forgot about What is This Feeling? That's one of my favs! I've added it to my top 10 (now top 11)

[TheSequelOfDisney]

1. Defying Gravity (I think my family knows that it's my favorite because I take a broom out of the closet and start singing )

2. The Wizard and I (I love how Idina sings this on the OBC CD. And how she giggles somewhere; I can't remember where.)

3. What Is This Feeling?

4. For Good (Wonderful duet)

5. One Short Day (It's just quick, snappy and well everything there is green!)

6. Dancing Through Life

7. Popular

8. Thank Goodness

9. No One Mourns The Wicked ("No one cries they don't return!" Except me!)

That's all I can think of now. Some of the others I don't really like; I can't remember the names of them though.

[tsom]

Good analysis Disney Duster. When I first heard "The Wizard and I" I felt kinda sad because all the things Elphaba hoped for would come true, but in a different light.

Anyway, my favorite songs are: (In no particular order; I love them equally, although "Popular" & "Defy Gravity" were the songs that got me interested in the musical)

1. Defy Gravity

2. Popular

3. What Is This Feeling?

4. The Wizard and I

5. One Short Day

BTW, the soap opera Passions did a really good parody of Wicked on Friday. Did anyone catch it??