Live Action Discussions: Babes in Toyland

[Matt]

I have the DVD and I love it. I still which it was in the OAR though!

[littlefuzzy]

Sylvester was voiced by Ray Bolger (who was double cast as Barnaby) This makes some of the interaction between the two especially delightful- once you get the inside joke.

Ahh, thanks! I'm curious, where did you find the information?

[UrsushH.Bear]

I once worked for Disney and was part of their trivia competitions. That fact was a question once. I'll try to verify it with what is left of my archives.

[Flanger-Hanger]

OK I justed watched this again (and the Laurel and Hardy version for that matter) and I still am annoyed no one explained what happened to the sheep.

Other points:

- As hopelessly lame as Tommy Sands is he at least does the Floretta bit and a sword fight which is more than can be said than the Tom in the 1934 version.

- The song "Go to Sleep" has a better set up than the 1934 version to. In the older version Tom is like: "well let's just abruptly end our attempt to escape Bogeyland [where all your golf scores are terrible] so I can sing you another stupid song. Like my tights?"

- Ray Bolger can dance but he cannot compare to the old Barnaby

- Rubber tree costumes are less cool than Bogeyman (but there are no scary midgets in rubber suits like in the 1934 version)

- musical numbers are real numbers in the Disney version and are more fun than the non musical bits (reverse is true for 1934 version)

- Annette I love ya and all but you can't read dramatic dialouge for the life of you (still better than Tommy sands though)

- I want a soundtrack release for the Disney version that uses the recordings used in the film, both vocal and instrumental (like 20K got earlier this year). Carmata arranged album on itunes is however very good and I love it.

- I also want collectible versions of the toys from the film (especially those toy soldiers)

- I want a collector edition DVD with a real restoration, widescreen picture and all the works. This is why we need the Vault Disney line back.

- Despite the flaws, I still think the ending for the Disney version, with the snowfall and the dancers in the village, is still very magical.

[merlinjones]

I'd love a "Babes in Toyland Special Edition" DVD with new master in 1:66 presentation, audio remixed from the original Stereo music stems, remastered "Backstage Party," "Title Makers," trailers, plus "The Truth About Mother Goose" and "Disney Family Album with Annette."

Wouldn't it be nice if they did a whole series of "Disney Musicals Special Editions" like this - - and included the CD Soundtrack or Cast LP as a bonus!

[Flanger-Hanger]

Wouldn't it be nice if they did a whole series of "Disney Musicals Special Editions" like this - - and included the CD Soundtrack or Cast LP as a bonus!

Yes, yes, YES!

The One and Only Genuine Original Family Band would be first on my list.

[Flanger-Hanger]

Hey remember how I said I'd do that thin a while back, well here it is!:







There all screenshots from Backstage Party which you can compare with the ones I posted before. These clips show the unmatted print of the film. I didn't do one for the last one yet but it is something I want to compare with later.

[ichabod]

Yeah see i said Backstage Party had more image

Also (and this could be a BIG maybe), but on the Annette Treasures, on the bonus feature there is a still of Annette from Babes in Toyland, but the still appears to be widescreen. Now could it actually be widescren, or is it simply just a landscape photo?

Anyway, at least we can see that the DVD could have been framed better. As for whether the original ratio is 1.37:1 or not, that's still plausible.

[merlinjones]

I believe it should be 1:66 like almost all the theatrical live-action of the period. You can tell by the title cards as well.

[Flanger-Hanger]

I believe it should be 1:66 like almost all the theatrical live-action of the period. You can tell by the title cards as well.

You can tell by just about everything. There's always some space above or below the actors.

I just watched Back Stage Party again (great!) and noticed that all the other clips show the same amount of film as the DVD. "The Forrest of No Return" scene, the gypsy dance, the toymaking machine scene, even the song "I Can't Do the Sum" all show the same amount of picture. Only from the point in "We Won't be Happy..." when they sing "We're and awful gruesome threesome.." to the end gives any indication that it was pan and scanned (or overscaned accidentally). The rest of the print is definitely open matte (and not pan and scanned like Gnome Mobile or Blackbeard's Ghost). I'm guessing the one short bit was either done accidentally or done first and then they changed their minds afterward.

As for a new DVD I'm guessing at this point they'll wait for the film's 50th anniversary in 2011. Maybe then we will get it on Blu-ray too. I think if Disney is wiling to make new trivia tracks for their older stuff like the Witch Mountain films we can expect to at last see that on the new disc and maybe Back Stage Party will be better restored.

[blackcauldron85]

I bought Babes in Toyland a couple years ago, and just got around to watching it yesterday. I wrote some notes while watching:

Boring. I guess it's all supposed to be taking place on a stage, and it looks like it; they style of the sets didn't really please me.

The DVD picture looks washed out. There are other Disney films more worthy of being restored, but eventually it should be.

I do like the bright colors. Sylvester and Barnaby's henchmen were the brightest spots in the film for me {note: I was writing as I was watching, so up to that point, those were the brightest spots for me}.

Annette looked really pretty, and I liked her in The Monkey's Uncle, but she was underwhelming here.

I'm ont familiar with the original story, so I can't compare the film to the original story, or to the Laurel & Hardy version (which I haven't seen).

Barnaby's castle looked Tim Burton-esque, which was cool. Not like it was shown much.

During quite a few parts, I wanted to just stop the movie, but part of me was curious, and part of me felt obligated to watch the whole thing. Even the music was underwhelming. Barnaby's "Castle in Spain" dance was a little interesting. But way too long! I ended up fast forwarding through some of it.

How did Walt feel about this film? I know that it didn't do so well and that it didn't really get positive reviews.

I agree with Leonard Maltin (in his "The Disney Films" book)- I just didn't really care about any of the characters. I did enjoy the "Where Are My Sheep" song= what a talented girl, that Bo Beep. Highlight of the film so far.

I think I wasn't paying attention- did the henchmen sell Tom to the gypsies? They must have... {I remember the henchmen having Tom in a bag and hitting him on the head with a hammer, and seeing the gypsy camp sign, but what happens right after that?!?}

I liked "I Can't Do the Sum", too. I thought it was clever.

The movie got a little more interesting from the sheep getting lost onward.

The dance sequences are just so long in this movie! I am a fan of choreography, but it made the movie drag on. Fast forward through some of the gypsy dancing...

Tom's return was interesting and fun to watch.

The look of the film is very TV-quality looking.

Is it just me, or are the trees Sid & Marty Kroft-ish?

As I thought when it began: What a weird movie!

I liked the song the kids sang to Mary & Tom about the trees. I have "Just a Whisper Away" in a music book, as well as "Go to sleep/slumber deep" (I don't know the name), and the former was boring (I prefer the way I play it!), but I liked the latter. And of course I already knew "Toyland"- I even had a music box at my grandparents' house that my grandmother would play for me before bed when I visited that played that song.

"Let's pussyfoot!"/"Come, let us pussyfoot!" and "Come, let's lurk!" should be classic lines that people quote!

Ed Wynn & Tommy Kirk! Yay! Now this is the highlight for me! I wish the whole movie was about them! I quite enjoy this scene!

Mother Goose Village = boring
Toyland = exciting

I like the special effects of the people and objects turning into toys.

Ed Wynn is so funny!

Leonard Maltin was unimpressed wsith the soldiers coming to life, but I was impressed- I found it quite magical!

Ending thoughts:

I quite enjoyed the film once they got to Toyland. If only the whole movie was that good, fun, and exciting.

******************************************************************

I felt the movie was to long at some parts and that the march of the wooden toy soldiers was not as good as it could be.

I agree with the first statement very much, but about the soldiers- that's what Leonard Maltin said, too. Why do you feel that way? I thought that it looked great and was very magical.

I believe I also have mixed feelings about the stagey opening and style of the film...The whole thing is a bit odd and plastique, which I guess is what can be viewed as both appealing and off-putting about the film...

I'm glad that Sylvester and Mother Goose were shown in front of the curtain, so we know that it's supposed to take place on stage- that makes the sets a little easier to digest, I suppose. It is a very odd movie, but having no idea about the original story or other versions, I don't know if it's just the Disney version that is odd, or if the story itself is strange. The sets don't look "real", versus something like, let's say, the "Jolly Holiday" sequence in Mary Poppins, which has a fantastic quality to it.

The only thing I really didn't like about this film is that the special effects are kind of cheap I know this isn't a Matrix film but it could have had better special effects.

I enjoyed the multiple Annettes during "I Can't Do the Sum", and I really liked the special effects used in Toyland, from the shrinking gun to the soldiers coming to life. Again, it was magical for me. What would you (or anyone who has issues with the special effect) rather have been done?

I heard Walt hated this film though. I've heard he said things like it was the worst film he ever made and "Maybe we can't make musicals here at Disney"

I wonder if he said that after the movie was reviewed and not doing as well as he had hoped? I really wonder how Walt felt about the film, especially during its production, I guess, before his thoughts could be influenced by critics and audiences!

As for the film...sigh...this is the one Disney film that should have been a big classic hit but wasn't. It has all the elements that it needs: terrific cast, great score, good special effects...but it may have been too corny and cutesy-poo even for 1961. I think it's kind of in-your-face; it takes terrible liberties with people's nerves from time to time. All the jokes misfire because the powers that be are jabbing you in the ribs so hard that you can't laugh. It might have worked better as an animated film, but I dunno. (If it had been, you'd bet that little kids would watch it more often, and that it'd be a 'classic' just because more people would have seen it when young).

Before having watched the film or reading reviews of it (except for the UD one, apparently, according to an earlier post of mine, but I don't recall what the review said), or knowing anything about the film except it being a Disney musical starring Annette, I had high hopes for it. I thought that it'd be a fun movie. I just had no idea that it would be so lackluster. Your "corny and cutesy-poo" comment is very similar to what Leonard Maltin said- he quoted some reviews, saying that the film would be enjoyed by kids under 5 years of age, but there's not much for everyone else, or something to that effect. Also mentioned was that Tommy Sands & Annette must be the worst screen couple ever- how they were boring, I guess. Interesting comment of "It might have worked better as an animated film". Was there ever any talk at the studio about making an animated Babes in Toyland, or was the story chosen so Disney could get into live-action musicals?

Then Tommy Kirk comes in...he too, seems too contemporary. He just kinda breaks the fourth wall a little. His hair is tousled and you almost expect him to snap his fingers and say "yeah, yeah, baby!" I usually like Kirk, but here he's almost a pushy presence, like he was a 19 year old punk trying to compete onscreen with Ed Wynn (lotsa luck there, cat). Grumio is a little cocky when he should have been sweeter, dorkier and clumsier. He just takes me right out of the film. I don't know.

Tommy Kirk and Ed Wynn were my absolute favorite characters- I thought that they were funny (well, especially Ed Wynn, but I enjoyed Tommy, too). I didn't get a contemporary feel from Tommy, myself. I didn't feel like he was trying to compete with Ed Wynn, either- his character is an apprentice who is trying to do his best and show what he is capable of to his boss, who is very hot and cold ("You're a genius!" one minute, to "You're a nit-wit!" the next, even though the apprentice did nothing wrong!).

I think this movie had promise (as I said, I thoroughly enjoyed the movie once they got to Toyland). What would I do differently? Not being familiar with the source material, it might be hard to say. Don't make it so stagey- have better looking sets. Have better leading actors (I do like Annette, but not really in this role!), have some better songs (but from reading the comments in this thread, the songs weren't really original, so I can't fault them too much, although I did enjoy a few of the songs). I did enjoy the henchmen, and I liked the corniness of the villain, in terms of "Come, let us pussyfoot", but he was kind of annoying. And why did he want to marry Mary? Just because she's a pretty girl? So I would change the villain, too, to a more villainous villain, I guess.

[goofystitch]

I bought Babes in Toyland
Interesting comment of "It might have worked better as an animated film". Was there ever any talk at the studio about making an animated Babes in Toyland, or was the story chosen so Disney could get into live-action musicals?

The story was actually chosen as a replacement. Walt Disney had bought the rights to the Oz books and was preparing to make a film called "The Rainbow Road to Oz" that was to be Disney's first big budget live action musical. Ray Bolger had signed on to reprise his role as Scarecrow, but after some early development, it became clear that the film was not going to do well in comparison with the MGM classic based on the first book. And so Babes in Toyland was chosen as a substitute, since a score already existed and only needed lyrics. Ray Bolger was moved to playing Barnaby and popular Mouseketeer Annette Funicello seemed the obvious choice to headline the film, with crooner Tommy Sands playing opposite.

The interesting thing about Toyland replacing Oz at Disney is that the original Operetta, Babes in Toyland, from which the music originates, was an answer to a hugely successful Oz musical that ran on Broadway in the early 1900's. Since the story and music originally came from a play, I think this was the main artistic reasoning behind opening the film like a play. As a fan of musical theater, I've always loved that they did that.

I have a peculiar love for this film that I think stems back to my childhood. I first saw it on Disney Channel and rented it repeatedly from my local video store until Disney rereleased it on VHS in the 90's. That may add to my enjoyment of this film in present day, but I think that this film has an undeniable charm that draws me to it.

As for Disney's Oz, since Disney owned exclusive rights to the Oz books through the 80's, they made a few book and record sets which actually used a few of the songs developed for Rainbow Road. And right before their rights expired, they made Return to Oz.

[merlinjones]

From what I understand, Walt had also held the rights to Babes in Toyland for some time and they were about to expire/go public domain, so in order to capitalize on the investment, they had to make something fairly quickly. And that may be one reason it was chosen instead of OZ.

(Many years later Return to Oz was made for the same reason - - the rights they had held for decades were about to expire).

[blackcauldron85]

Thanks, Alex! Informative as always! I knew about Rainbow Road to Oz and how the Mouseketeers were supposed to do it- I saw the footage somewhere...on one of the Treasures, maybe? Or on YouTube- I don't remember!

I adore Return to Oz- if Babes in Toyland had been darker with scary villains and no songs, maybe I would've loved it!

[blackcauldron85]

I don't really remember reading this set of articles back in March, but I must have. Floyd Norman wrote a bit about the production of Babes in Toyland:

Part 1: http://jimhillmedia.com/blogs/floyd_nor ... art-i.aspx
Part 2: http://jimhillmedia.com/blogs/floyd_nor ... rt-ii.aspx

And LaughingPlace.com wrote about Babes in Toyland in an article about Disney live-action musicals:

http://www.laughingplace.com/News-ID511900.asp

Babes in Toyland—Poor Babes and Toyland. It really is a movie only a Disney fanatic could love. Ward Kimball had actually been set to direct, had even been flown out to New York City to tap into Broadway talent, but, according to John Canemaker in Walt Disney’s Nine Old Men and the Art of Animation, was relieved of his duties when Walt Disney felt Kimball was getting a little too big for his britches. That is really too bad because, when considering the fun Ward Kimball made of science and space exploration in his series of television specials, Babes and Toyland really could have been something great.

The problem is that the film is far more cartoonish and sugar-coated than anything Disney ever did in the animation world. Even the most playful and fantastic of the Silly Symphonies series didn’t wallow in sweetness like Babes in Toyland. In terms of the plotting, Ray Bolger’s Barnaby is so cardboard, he never presents a real threat, and Annette Funicello never seems fully disturbed by the events at hand. Similarly, Tom and Mary’s emotions never seem believable. They have all the chemistry of Sunday School teachers (due to the script and the staging, not necessarily the actors). Without earnestness, the audience doesn’t really become involved, and for anyone above the age of nine who is not a Disney fan, the corny tone and histrionic presentation is almost embarrassing to watch.

What highlights the film does have are from its musical numbers. Annette’s “I Can’t Do the Sum” is very fun, as is Ray Bolger’s “Castle in Spain.” Gene Sheldon and Henry Calvin are also great in “Slowly He Sank Into the Sea.” The opening number “Lemonade” is enjoyable because it gives Annette Funicello a chance to showcase her dance abilities, the only opportunity she had to do so in film or television. As for other cast members, Ed Wynn is a hoot as the Toymaker and Tommy Kirk is delightful as his assistant Grumio.

While the soundtrack has never been available in stores, as of 2005, it was available at Disneyland from the music shop with the machine that burns discs and prints cases.

I agree with everything in the second paragraph. I agree about "I Can't Do the Sum", but the other musical numbers weren't special for me, although "Castle in Spain" had its fun moments- to me, that scene was just too long to enjoy more than I did.

And another LaughingPlace.com article:

http://www.laughingplace.com/News-PID180400-180402.asp

It's hard to say exactly where Babes in Toyland went wrong. It could be that Annette Funicello and Tommy Sands are grossly out of their league in either singing or acting the roles of Mary Contrary and Tom Piper. Listening to some of the movie's key songs, such as Just a Whisper Away and Just a Toy, is actually very painful as these two pop voices attempt to sing classic Victor Herbert melodies.

I've never seen any other version of this classic operetta, but it seems unlikely the story would have proved such a perennial holiday classic if it was intended to pander down to the smallest audience members as the Disney film does. Beginning with Mother Goose's introduction, which seems like it was taken from storytime at the library, the film directs itself toward enchanting children. Because of this, even in her moments of dire distress, Mary Contrary never seems very upset (despite how often she dabs at her dry eyes and nose), Tom and Mary never really seem all that in love, and Barnaby never seems to be all that intimidating.

The special effects vary greatly. In I Can't Do the Sum, there are some great effects of four additional color-tinted Annettes singing and dancing with the real one, including one scene where they pop out of a mirror. But for all the many great effects, there are also some not-so-great ones. The costumes for the trees, for example, in the Forest of No Return seemed to have been taken on loan from a local college production.

But despite all this, there's something very appealing in Disney's Babes in Toyland. If Annette Funicello and Tommy Sands are part of the problem with the film, they are also part of its appeal. As so many have said before, Annette's success probably came from her personality, and in Babes in Toyland, a little of her radiating charm goes a long way. Plus, it is the only film in which we get to see her doing what she loved to do-dancing, though she only gets a few opportunities to really move.

Similarly, if Tommy Sands is really more of a Sunday School teacher than a love interest, at least he has some of the same charm as Annette, giving them a pleasant enough chemistry. And he does get one great moment in the film, playing Floretta the gypsy in disguise.

Much of the rest of the cast is lots of fun as well. Ray Bolger as the villainous Barnaby, though he is more cartoonish than anything Disney ever animated, is fun, getting to sing and dance through several numbers, including Castle in Spain. Gene Sheldon and Henry Calvin are good, basically replaying the roles they played on the Zorro TV Series (though one gets the idea that Bernardo is considerably smarter than Sheldon's character in this film), including getting to sing one of the new songs for the Disney film, the funny Slowly He Sank Into the Sea. And as always, Ed Wynn and Tommy Kirk are a great addition to any Disney movie.

In addition to the cast, there are the great Victor Herbert songs and some great choreography. And because the film starts on a proscenium stage, the film avoids the odd stage-musical blocking that can sometimes plague musical films where the cast dances for an unidentified audience. Because it is established that we are basically seeing a filmed stage musical (not completely, of course, but the illusion is created), the audience is identified, and it is more understandable why the dances are staged facing the camera. So, despite its many flaws, Babes in Toyland is fun enough to make it a guilty pleasure.

It's interesting that the author says that Annette and Tommy Sands are both part of the problem of the film, and yet provide some of the film's charm. I think that, had they shown more emotion (the author was spot-on mentioning Annette dabbing at her dry eyes), the two leads could have improved the film somewhat, since I feel that their acting limited the appeal of the film, since many people just didn't connect with or feel for those characters.

[merlinjones]

I think Annette and Tommy are hot!

[jediliz]

blackcauldron: Bo Peep was played by a Very Young ANN JILLIAN.


I hope we get a 50th anniversary Blu Ray in 2011 along with a rerelease of the original Parent Trap (w/o the dumb television sequel(s), on Blu Ray.

[goofystitch]

I hope we get a 50th anniversary Blu Ray in 2011 along with a rerelease of the original Parent Trap (w/o the dumb television sequel(s), on Blu Ray.

That would be wonderful. Heck, I'd even take it on DVD as long as it is in it's OAR and has a few bonus features. And The Parent Trap would also be a welcome addition to my Disney Blu-Ray collection.

[pap64]

This movie used to be one of my all time favorites as a kid. But I saw it a few years ago and agree that its not as strong as it should be.

From what I read every mistake made in Babes served as a lesson and helped Mary Poppins in a great way.

If you compare the films you can see the difference. Mary feelings like a stage show, but isn't a LITERAL one like in Babes. The characters express far more emotion and it benefits from having a very strong musical background.

So in a way, Babes' existence paved the way for Mary Poppins, one of Disney's best musicals ever.

[merlinjones]

Lots of 50th anniversaries coming up for Walt classics: Swiss Family Robinson, Pollyanna, Sign of Zorro (2010), One Hundred and One Dalmatians, The Parent Trap, The Absent-Minded Professor, Babes in Toyland (2011) - - Walt Disney's Wonderful World of Color (2011)...