Just wanted to put up a report that the dance held by our college's GLBT Center on Saturday night was a great success. We had originally sold about 40 tickets, however only about 25 people came, but we still had a great time. Best of all though was that in ticket sales we managed to raise $178 for GLSEN, an organization that specializes in providing a safe environment for GLBT children in schools and the education network. All in all, it was a wonderful time and a successful fundraiser.
I'm bumping this. You know why? I have a rant to make!
I am so sick and tired of feeling like a "second-class citizen." And no, the funny thing is, I'm NOT talking about being persecuted for being GLBT. I'm talking about everyone from my know-it-all mother to gay pride websites persecuting me for being "not GLBT enough." My mom says I'm just confused, because I guess you're either gay or you're not. And too many websites don't even acknowledge that we exist, or refer to us as, again, "confused," or "questioning," or whatever. WHAT THE HELL!? Are we not all in this together? Am I not GLBT, too? There's a freaking B in it for crying out loud!
Sorry for the rant, I'm just irritated, and this forum was the first place I came out and everything, so... I guess I'm just more comfortable about problems like this with you guys than the rest of the world.
You're certainly not the only one, Margos. Being bisexual I've noticed insensitivity it seems from both sides as well. Thankfully I've known many LGBT centers who are very welcoming of all that encompasses LGBT, but I've also run into other militant members who seem very sexist toward bisexuals and transgenders in their group. What I often find ironic about this is that being gay in the first place should let you known that there isn't always a clear cut definition of sexual orientation. Just as straight people tell bisexuals you "need to choose," I've encountered a few gay people who have told me the same. And the one pathetic excuse I often heard from both sides is "How do you know you're bisexual unless you've had sex with both?" I think the fact of knowing that I've been sexually attracted to both genders, and find certain traits I find appealing and attractive in both, is a clear sign for me. To me it just seems like a total double standard that a member of LGBT should come up to me and say you need "to choose a side" when as I stated before, they should know that sexual orientation isn't defined in black or white terms.
Thankfully though, all of my gay friends I know are very open and supportive of bisexuals and transgenders, but I have had a run-in now and then with one of those kinds of members. So I definitely share your rant from experience.
Thanks, Tim. Yeah, that's another one I get from my mom, "How do you know you like girls if you've never done anything with one?" Really silly logic, considering I knew I liked guys when I was, like, 7.
Yeah... it's really frustrating. It's just really, really nice to know I'm not alone. Thanks!
I think the reason there's discrimination from both sides is because, I guess, it's become a popular way for stressed gay individuals to 'come out' to say they're bisexual, so it'll go easier on their parents. Because, to your parents, if you're bisexual, there's still a 50/50 chance you'll end up with the opposite gender (and, thus, no more issue). So a lot of gay people see it as a way to stay in the closet.
But, I don't know, bisexuality just seems to make sense to me. People are attracted to different things at different times, even at different periods of their lives. Why is gender the only borderline?
Listening to most often lately:
Taylor Swift ~ "Elizabeth Taylor"
Katy Perry ~ "bandaid"
Meghan Trainor ~ "Still Don't Care"
What you are attracted to sexually is a strong force quite different from anything else you like in life. It has to do with your true love, as well.
Anyway, Margos, you are so right in pointing out there is a B in there for Bisexual. However, if someday you don't find yourself really preferring one sex over the other, and feel sure of it, I will be very, very surprised. I don't know if anyon later in life is really, really bisexual. Actually, I don't know how you can be sure you are bisexual, either.
The thing is being straight or being gay is more of a sureness of what you want. It gives you a closer idea, who you want to end up with. Not to mention the way it feels to people when their exes date someone of the opposite sex of them.
You see...if your dating a certain sex, but you really prefer the other sex...it's all about what will gratify you the most, what will make you happy. It only makes sense to think your true love will be found in the gender you are most attracted to.
True, there are few "true neutral" bisexuals. Many prefer one gender over the other, sometimes quite strongly. And I am not entirely sure which I prefer (other than I know that most straight men are a little too macho or boarish for my liking, no offense to straight men).
Oddly enough, I have heard a theory (I don't buy it myself, but it's interesting nonetheless) that bisexuality is the natural state of humanity. Society forces people into unisexuality, because straight people believe that their way is the only "natural way." This theory says that gay people are those who know enough about themselves to know they're not straight, but have been pigenholed into a "one-or-the-other" mentality by the culture.
I don't believe this is true, but it's still interesting to think about. I personally believe that there are things that separate bisexual people from unisexual people (either gay or straight), and things like that often do come out. We're not just lost, confused gay people scared of our feelings or some such nonsense. We're a totally different orientation.
Disney Duster wrote:What you are attracted to sexually is a strong force quite different from anything else you like in life. It has to do with your true love, as well.
Anyway, Margos, you are so right in pointing out there is a B in there for Bisexual. However, if someday you don't find yourself really preferring one sex over the other, and feel sure of it, I will be very, very surprised. I don't know if anyon later in life is really, really bisexual. Actually, I don't know how you can be sure you are bisexual, either.
The thing is being straight or being gay is more of a sureness of what you want. It gives you a closer idea, who you want to end up with. Not to mention the way it feels to people when their exes date someone of the opposite sex of them.
You see...if your dating a certain sex, but you really prefer the other sex...it's all about what will gratify you the most, what will make you happy. It only makes sense to think your true love will be found in the gender you are most attracted to.
I didn't read all that ( ) but I agree with the part I did read ( - if only one could bold a smiley...).
I personally don't think bisexuality does much for the community to help. I believe it exists, naturally. But think about... If you admit to being bisexual, by definition that means you can't choose. Which is always going to translate to: you're confused. And people for decades were using that to attack gays. If sexuality is viewed as not-set-in-stone, all the more support it gives those who view homosexuality as a deviation that can be changed. And since it can be changed and it's viewed negatively by most religious people, it needs to be corrected. Instead of what it's probably meant to do; show heterosexuals that we all have a kind of male and female side - which is not widely believed.
Maybe all that is just a sign that we're still in the dark ages when it comes to understanding sexuality. But I see today as being more important than the future (what we do today informs the future). And making bisexuality more accepted will lead to a new kind of closet. Like a straight-washing, watering down of true homosexuality.
One of two outcomes could be gathered by this intense backlash against mainstreaming bisexuality. One: that the fact it's so feared in the gay community and intelligently argued against (when it's argued with intellect and not emotion) means that it really is a gateway to accepting homosexuality or heterosexuality. Two: that the fact it's so feared and shouted down by so many in the gay community is another sign that the incredible pressure and tension we get from society to prove ourselves (that being gay is healthy and leads to a life of stability rather than self-hatred, drug & alcohol abuse, disease, loneliness) or admit that we were wrong all along leads us to dismiss a true, lifelong bisexuality as an option because it makes it look like homosexuality was never natural.
One of our local LGBT support groups has added the letter Q to their name to include those who are questioning what their sexuality is...not exactly sure how I feel about that....I knew I was gay from as far back as I can remember....definitely by the time I began school....on the other hand I know there are people who are really unsure, but that's just so foreign to my experience....
Lazario wrote:I personally don't think bisexuality does much for the community to help. I believe it exists, naturally. But think about... If you admit to being bisexual, by definition that means you can't choose. Which is always going to translate to: you're confused. And people for decades were using that to attack gays. If sexuality is viewed as not-set-in-stone, all the more support it gives those who view homosexuality as a deviation that can be changed. And since it can be changed and it's viewed negatively by most religious people, it needs to be corrected. Instead of what it's probably meant to do; show heterosexuals that we all have a kind of male and female side - which is not widely believed.
Maybe all that is just a sign that we're still in the dark ages when it comes to understanding sexuality. But I see today as being more important than the future (what we do today informs the future). And making bisexuality more accepted will lead to a new kind of closet. Like a straight-washing, watering down of true homosexuality.
One of two outcomes could be gathered by this intense backlash against mainstreaming bisexuality. One: that the fact it's so feared in the gay community and intelligently argued against (when it's argued with intellect and not emotion) means that it really is a gateway to accepting homosexuality or heterosexuality. Two: that the fact it's so feared and shouted down by so many in the gay community is another sign that the incredible pressure and tension we get from society to prove ourselves (that being gay is healthy and leads to a life of stability rather than self-hatred, drug & alcohol abuse, disease, loneliness) or admit that we were wrong all along leads us to dismiss a true, lifelong bisexuality as an option because it makes it look like homosexuality was never natural.
Pardon my language, but to me that's just utter bullshit. People can label me "confused" all they want, but I know for certain that I'm not. I'm comfortable in my sexuality and knowing that there are aspects I find sexually attractive about both genders. I can't say definite or not if I prefer one gender over the other, but I do know that I find both attractive and can also lead a perfectly happy monogamous relationship. I don't think bisexual by the definition is that you "can't choose." Just like many people who say they are born gay, many bisexual people are born that way as well. Sexuality should not be a clear black and white area, and sadly many bigots who protest the LGBT community never seem to understand it because of their set prejudices.
Bisexuality is never out to disapprove homosexuality or make it seem like it's not natural. It should be seen as another example that being hetero and homosexual aren't the only sexualities out there. Many bisexuals including myself strive to support all LGBT rights, not just one of the letters, and thankfully many of my gay friends do. Sometimes I feel like I even get twice the hate than I should, and I get pandered to from both sides telling me what I should be. To that I say screw you - you don't know who I am, or how I feel sexually. I'm comfortable in my bisexuality and do my damned best to support all LGBT rights no matter what you may impose on me.
I think the main reason why people have still not accepted people like Margos and I is because bisexuality is still a hard thing to understand and not as heavily researched as definite homosexuality. It's always easy for a person to have a black and white opinion and have the attitude of "I'm right, you're wrong!" The bigoted people who would use bisexuality as a protest against gay people in general is just an example of their own prejudices - they don't take the time to understand that sexuality sometimes has no defining borders and it's possible to love members of your sex or both. But because of these people I'm not going to take the blame just simply because I exist. I can get hate from anybody who wants to, but I'm not going to be quiet. No matter what kind of relationship I'm in, I know I'm a bisexual, and I'll always be here for the community help to stand up for everything in LGBT.
Disney's Divinity wrote:I think the reason there's discrimination from both sides is because, I guess, it's become a popular way for stressed gay individuals to 'come out' to say they're bisexual, so it'll go easier on their parents. [...]
Not only that, but for quite some time (I don't know if that's still going on now) it was "popular" to say you were bisexual, in high school and among certain groups of people. I remember a lot of straight girls suddenly all 'turning' bisexual, because it was so 'interesting'. And you know how guys that age... I mean, of all ages, are: they find the prospect of two girls making out very attractive. That's why it became popular. A year or so later, all those girls had 'turned' straight again.
Maybe that's why some bisexuals are receiving hostile reactions: maybe people started thinking it's just a 'fad' or a 'phase'? I remember thinking that way when I was younger and less open-minded and I still had a lot to learn. It's not that strange that there's discrimination in the GLTB 'community'. After all, sometimes gays are just like people.
There are black people who are racist; I've heard women make mysogynist remarks; so why not less acceptive homosexuals? It's sad, but it happens.
Margos wrote:True, there are few "true neutral" bisexuals. Many prefer one gender over the other, sometimes quite strongly. And I am not entirely sure which I prefer (other than I know that most straight men are a little too macho or boarish for my liking, no offense to straight men).
Oh no, you're completely right, actually.
Margos wrote:Oddly enough, I have heard a theory (I don't buy it myself, but it's interesting nonetheless) that bisexuality is the natural state of humanity. Society forces people into unisexuality, because straight people believe that their way is the only "natural way."
That doesn't mix well with evolution. To survive as a species, man had to be heterosexual by nature, to produce offspring. I've heard of this 'theory' before, but it seems to me to be one of those modern, 'popular' theories that are made up to create more acceptance of homosexuals. Which shouldn't be neccesary anyway, because it doesn't matter *why* anyone is gay. All that matters is that nobody should treat them different, because it's nobody else's business but their own.
Interesting theories, Lazario. I am not sure, though.
Carolinakid, if that Q is there because it's a group that's safe for people who are questioning their sexuality, I guess it fits, actually.
PhillipFan, yes, you can love anyone of any sex. But sexuality is about...sexuality, it's about, what are you sexually attracted to, the most, what do you want?
Also the reason bisexuality probably hasn't been explored is because...if they've explored heterosexuality, and they've explored homosexuality...they probably feel they have covered what bisexuality would be. Yet one more reason why we feel...you're gonna be one or the other. If bisexuality is something seperate, different from anything already covered, well, I dunno.
As for "everyone being bisexual/a little bisexual", that's simply not true. Here's why: no one is a little bisexual, merely, it is possible for you to get attracted by something from either sex. And actually, I think it's really that everyone's a little attracted/can be attracted to the same sex. I think it's more natural than heterosex because you are that sex, and you like being that sex, so...
Can everyone here please listen to something here for a second and try to understand how I feel?
Okay well last night after the club with my friends, I went home with a friend of mine. When I first saw this guy in chorus at my college, I thought he was gay. Then I saw him with a girl and found out she was his girlfriend. So at the club I asked him if he was bisexual, and he was, and he had also broken up with his girlfriend by that time. I think she was bisexual too. Go figure.
So he took me home like a good friend would, but yes we slept in the same bed and got cuddly. When he drove me home, I asked him if he preffered one sex over the other and he said no. But then he went on to say he would have sex with guys, but get into more of a love or relationship with a girl. We also discussed how guys, those horny guys, seem to be able to just do each other with no emotional attachment, but girls are different, and that may be a reason for how he is with girls vs. guys. He had done a lot of guys...and only one girl. He said he thought he was in love with her. Had thought so.
But this guy, well, I already thought he was gay from the start so you can guess how he seemed to exude gayness, but aside from acting and sounding and looking it, he had very gay interests. Looking at his movie collection, not only did he like Disney (yes, it's liked by many gays) but he had Lady and the Tramp, and Cinderella, and Ever After: A Cinderella Story! And Cats Don't Dance! And an Aladdin lithograph on his wall!
I thought this guy was cute and obviously we had a lot of same interests, he even liked to draw as I do, but if one thing would stop me from being in a relationship with him, I don't think I could fall in love with him because of his personality.
But what I want you to feel for me here is...he seems so obviously gay, and his bisexuality seems to be hiding it. If he ended up with a girl...I don't see how he could be happy. I'm saying he has like gay needs that need to be met. I'm saying he seems gay and I want him to be his true self and I want him to be happy.
I can see maybe some girl would love him because, oh hell he likes the same kinda movies she does, or maybe he'll meet a really tomboyish girl and they'll be a good pair in that masculine/feminine way...but once again he seems gay and like he has gay needs that should be met so he can be happy...he needs a guy who understands him and will give him what he wants.
I also forgot to mention that both sides of his family are strongly, strongly against homsexuality and he says he will never tell his father or either of his families. Unless he ended up with a girl. So...I think you can see where I'm going with this...as far as why he may want to be bisexual, may try to be...but is that who he really is?
Lazario wrote:I personally don't think bisexuality does much for the community to help. I believe it exists, naturally. But think about... If you admit to being bisexual, by definition that means you can't choose. Which is always going to translate to: you're confused. And people for decades were using that to attack gays. If sexuality is viewed as not-set-in-stone, all the more support it gives those who view homosexuality as a deviation that can be changed. And since it can be changed and it's viewed negatively by most religious people, it needs to be corrected. Instead of what it's probably meant to do; show heterosexuals that we all have a kind of male and female side - which is not widely believed.
Maybe all that is just a sign that we're still in the dark ages when it comes to understanding sexuality. But I see today as being more important than the future (what we do today informs the future). And making bisexuality more accepted will lead to a new kind of closet. Like a straight-washing, watering down of true homosexuality.
One of two outcomes could be gathered by this intense backlash against mainstreaming bisexuality. One: that the fact it's so feared in the gay community and intelligently argued against (when it's argued with intellect and not emotion) means that it really is a gateway to accepting homosexuality or heterosexuality. Two: that the fact it's so feared and shouted down by so many in the gay community is another sign that the incredible pressure and tension we get from society to prove ourselves (that being gay is healthy and leads to a life of stability rather than self-hatred, drug & alcohol abuse, disease, loneliness) or admit that we were wrong all along leads us to dismiss a true, lifelong bisexuality as an option because it makes it look like homosexuality was never natural.
Pardon my language, but to me that's just utter bullshit. People can label me "confused" all they want, but I know for certain that I'm not. I'm comfortable in my sexuality and knowing that there are aspects I find sexually attractive about both genders. I can't say definite or not if I prefer one gender over the other, but I do know that I find both attractive and can also lead a perfectly happy monogamous relationship. I don't think bisexual by the definition is that you "can't choose." Just like many people who say they are born gay, many bisexual people are born that way as well. Sexuality should not be a clear black and white area, and sadly many bigots who protest the LGBT community never seem to understand it because of their set prejudices.
Bisexuality is never out to disapprove homosexuality or make it seem like it's not natural. It should be seen as another example that being hetero and homosexual aren't the only sexualities out there. Many bisexuals including myself strive to support all LGBT rights, not just one of the letters, and thankfully many of my gay friends do. Sometimes I feel like I even get twice the hate than I should, and I get pandered to from both sides telling me what I should be. To that I say screw you - you don't know who I am, or how I feel sexually. I'm comfortable in my bisexuality and do my damned best to support all LGBT rights no matter what you may impose on me.
I think the main reason why people have still not accepted people like Margos and I is because bisexuality is still a hard thing to understand and not as heavily researched as definite homosexuality. It's always easy for a person to have a black and white opinion and have the attitude of "I'm right, you're wrong!" The bigoted people who would use bisexuality as a protest against gay people in general is just an example of their own prejudices - they don't take the time to understand that sexuality sometimes has no defining borders and it's possible to love members of your sex or both. But because of these people I'm not going to take the blame just simply because I exist. I can get hate from anybody who wants to, but I'm not going to be quiet. No matter what kind of relationship I'm in, I know I'm a bisexual, and I'll always be here for the community help to stand up for everything in LGBT.
Well, you'll notice that none of my post claimed to be coming from any kind of expert on bisexuality. If I have a problem with it, as a gay man I know from experience dealing with straight people who think they have the right to make a judgment (gay is not natural, and the God they believe in disapproves of it and you are a sinner and you'd betta repent and all that nonsense) and no matter what you think or do, you are wrong and they are right... I know from their mistakes that it's my problem and no one else's. But I think I can accept it. I would be a major hypocrite if I wanted people to understand gay people and finally stop fighting us for our own rights (why bother trying to control other peoples' lives- don't you have one of your own?? We're not children, you don't own us, your religion may control the law but that does not make it just and correct), then turn around and say - but bisexuality is ridiculous and people who "think they" are are exempt.
Being gay is a healthy thing for me, because it grounds me. I know when I feel a pain of missing a woman, it's because their company made me feel good. But I also know the passion I feel toward men is not and could never be matched by / transplanted on to a woman. That sweep-you-off-your-feet feeling, which you can fantasize about- you know that feeling when you see someone. I've never really discussed bisexuality with someone who really considered themself one. You get that feeling from both men and women?
Disney Duster wrote:But this guy, well, I already thought he was gay from the start so you can guess how he seemed to exude gayness, but aside from acting and sounding and looking it, he had very gay interests. Looking at his movie collection, not only did he like Disney (yes, it's liked by many gays) but he had Lady and the Tramp, and Cinderella, and Ever After: A Cinderella Story! And Cats Don't Dance! And an Aladdin lithograph on his wall!
This reminds me from a scene from the 'reality game show' Playing it straight. Have you ever seen it? Every now and then I allow myself to watch a little trash tv and this caught my interest. It was an American tv show about a girl who met 12 guys and every week, she had to guess who of them was guy and vote that guy off. If she ended up with a straight man, they would each win a certain amount of money. There was this scene in which the girl thought one of the guys was gay because... imagine this... he liked art and he knew a lot about architecture! As we all know, that's *the* definite sign a man is gay! Your remarks about this man's movie collection and , most of all, the Aladdin lithograph reminded me of this scene.
I think it's narrow-minded and stereotypical to think you can tell whether a man is gay or straight from his hobbies or interests. I mean, one of my favorite movies is Thelma & Louise; one of my favorite Disney films is The Little Mermaid; and I have a drawing of Uncle Scrooge made by a real comics artist on my wall. I guess I should come out of the closet now, right?
PrincePhillipFan wrote:Pardon my language, but to me that's just utter bullshit. People can label me "confused" all they want, but I know for certain that I'm not. I'm comfortable in my sexuality and knowing that there are aspects I find sexually attractive about both genders. I can't say definite or not if I prefer one gender over the other, but I do know that I find both attractive and can also lead a perfectly happy monogamous relationship. I don't think bisexual by the definition is that you "can't choose." Just like many people who say they are born gay, many bisexual people are born that way as well. Sexuality should not be a clear black and white area, and sadly many bigots who protest the LGBT community never seem to understand it because of their set prejudices.
Bisexuality is never out to disapprove homosexuality or make it seem like it's not natural. It should be seen as another example that being hetero and homosexual aren't the only sexualities out there. Many bisexuals including myself strive to support all LGBT rights, not just one of the letters, and thankfully many of my gay friends do. Sometimes I feel like I even get twice the hate than I should, and I get pandered to from both sides telling me what I should be. To that I say screw you - you don't know who I am, or how I feel sexually. I'm comfortable in my bisexuality and do my damned best to support all LGBT rights no matter what you may impose on me.
I think the main reason why people have still not accepted people like Margos and I is because bisexuality is still a hard thing to understand and not as heavily researched as definite homosexuality. It's always easy for a person to have a black and white opinion and have the attitude of "I'm right, you're wrong!" The bigoted people who would use bisexuality as a protest against gay people in general is just an example of their own prejudices - they don't take the time to understand that sexuality sometimes has no defining borders and it's possible to love members of your sex or both. But because of these people I'm not going to take the blame just simply because I exist. I can get hate from anybody who wants to, but I'm not going to be quiet. No matter what kind of relationship I'm in, I know I'm a bisexual, and I'll always be here for the community help to stand up for everything in LGBT.
Well spoken, Tim! Now I wish I had never brought this up. I wanted to go on thinking UD was one big supporting community, and I've always seen gay men as my bretheren. I'm a bisexual woman and I'm proud of that, and always felt a part of the whole LGBT family. But now I see that some of the people, even here on UD, that I thought were a real part of my "community" are just as ignorant as a lot of the straight people in my life. If I can't turn to the gay community, who the hell can I turn to? I'm not straight, but now I feel like I can't fit in anywhere, if I can't even fit in among those who should be supportive......
) but I agree with the part I did read ( 
