Fantasia/F2K: 2-Movie Collection Discussion: Nov. 30, 2010

[VagueSimplicity]

I don't get why you anti-Blu ppl (sorry I can't think of a less offensive name) think it's a waste for us to upgrade because of reasons you might think are superficial. Why should we have to stick to lesser quality (in terms of clarity) entertainment when we have a choice to take a premium route? If the majority of us had thought like this during the transitional era of VHS to DVD (which some of us did) we'd still be living in a time where we had cropped-off images and sticky tapes that'd sometimes collect dirt inside befouling the quality of the image and sound (for example, one of the scenes in a Pinocchio tape I still have had gotten exposed to external elements and had been rendered playless ever since, making all the voices and music distorted and the picture go blue whenever Pinocchio and Jiminy rush home after escaping Strombolli. All other scenes were fine, but it sort of changed the pacing of the story. Funnily enough I had gotten used to watching that scene as a child, that when I first played the DVD of Pinocchio it felt weird without the distortion being there.).

Anyway, back to what I was saying. You can be happy with whatever satisfies your tastes. Hollywood and Disney aren't forcing you to upgrade to Blu; however, they may be annoying you with commercials of "how great it is" on your DVDs which annoyed me, too. Save your rebellion for when Hollywood decides DVD is obsolete (which I think will be never, since a majority of consumers still prefer it). But if we Blu-folk want sharper picture and sound quality, let us have it, and be happy with it and have it satisfy our tastes. Just because we want something we think looks and sounds better doesn't make us greedy or following the crowd, we just want to see movies in the best quality these times can bestow upon us.

Granted, not everyone can afford "luxuries" such as blu ray, but, it has really been one of the cheapest mediums I've ever consumed (if you hunt with a frugal eye). Most of the blu rays I buy are almost half the price of the two-disc special editions on DVD and they provide the same amount of content, if not more! It's just the price of the player that might be grabbing you by the balls.
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I wish I had more to say about Fantasia, but my two cents have worn out.

[jpanimation]

Wow, first off, way off topic. This has become another Blu bash.

You didn't see the last couple of pages at all did you?




It's funny how when there's DVD bashing there's few if any who say something about it but when it's countered by Blu-bashing it's considered blasphemous and seen as destroying the thread.

You can make up this double standard all you want but I fail to see this DVD bashing. I'd like you to list this vast amount of DVD bashing statements that I missed. I see a joke about the extra DVD that comes with the Blu-ray purchase being worthless but nothing against the format in general.

Quite frankly, I don't care what format people watch their movies on. Personally, when I spend money I want the best quality but when I rent I could care less. For Blu-ray I sit close to my HDTV but when I rent DVD I just scoot back 15ft so the picture looks just as sharp. I have no problem with DVD, Blu-ray, digital download, stream, whatever. I'm just grateful we have so many choices.

On the other hand, I do have a problem with Digital Copies being forced down our throats. That truly is a coaster as once you use it, the disc is worthless or if you buy an old Blu-ray, chances are its already expired and the disc is useless. I'm admittedly anti-digital copy (at least until they drop the disc and its all digital).

-------------------------------------------

I think until we get some real news on Fantasia, this thread is going to continue to be off-topic. Disney is just frustrating me with these rediculous delays to make room for other releases I never planned on buying. Now within a 4 month period, Fantasia, Fantasia 2000, Dumbo, and Beauty and the Beast will come out. You can't tell me thats good marketing cramming four major DAC releases so close together. Being catalog titles, they'll need the space apart to maximize sales.

I hope Disney has a reason better then marketing strategy for delaying these releases (restoration would be acceptable, same with testing the waters for an uncut Fantasia). It's annoying to see Warner announce all their classics a year in advance and keep their release schedules while Disney screws with us.

[Goliath]

Nothing about anti-DVDism. Nothing that says or even indicates any "hatred" for DVD.

What about people bragging hoe they would use the dvd that comes with the combo for coasters? Just an example. That's why I decided to jump in with an equally over-the-top statement. Which, unexpectedly, turned into this huge debate, which was not my intention.

But would you please answer my question: why do all BluRay fans feel the urge to try to 'convert' all dvd-users to Blu? Why can't they just enjoy what they have?

To add to what milo said -and I don't mean this as an offense to any particular people here, since I like all my fellow UD'ers (well, except for a few, but they're... never mind, they're not in this thread... at least not now... forget it!)- I (me, personally, my own humble opinion) get kind of an iffy feeling when people continue to talk about their big-screen, wall-filling high definition tv screens, home cinema sets, cristal clear image and sound, high resolution I-don't-know-what kind of stuff. They talk about it like it's their life, you know... Like it's the most important thing. And they go on and on about how they adapted to the new technology for the very, very, very first moment when it still costed a shitload of money, and they act like they're proud of the fact that they had to pay three times as much as people who adopted later...

I don't want to preach, like milo did (I'm sorry, milo, but you did, with the "you can't take it with you in the grave"-part, which was a bit too much in my opinion), but... whenever I see people writing about television and movies like it's their life, I dunno... kinda creeps me out. I mean, I'm a film- and television scholar myself! I study and write about films and tv for a living! But this bragging makes me wanna ask: "is this all there is"? I dunno, maybe I'm strange that way...

Do you know that line in 'Workingclass hero', when Lennon sings: "They keep you doped with religion, sex and tv"? That's what I think of when I read such things. Doped by films and tv, oblivious from what's going on in the outside world. I'm not saying you're all like that. I don't want to offend you. I'm you just saying that's how I interpret all the talk about the big screen tv's as if your lives depended on them...

[ajmrowland]

The bragging wasn't on that specific page. in fact, I haven't even seen it on this site. Maybe one person said it max, but that's it.

I dont feel the need to convert anybody. blu-ray is not my religion. I do cite out the exclusives, but mostly it's to defend my choice of format, or to exclaim my excitement about a release.

I wouldn't have an HDTV if not for American Express points, and the blu-ray came to me in my PS3 that I got for my Birthday. I did opt for the cheaper HD DVD in the format war, but that ended early. So, really, not much higher-class than anyone else here.

I'm glad that you're finally opening up on the specifics of your thoughts on such a topic. Now the mechanical workings of your mind are clear, and we can put this to rest.

[Goliath]

Why should we have to stick to lesser quality (in terms of clarity) entertainment when we have a choice to take a premium route?

Because I simply and honestly don't think dvd is of "lesser quality". I think it looks great. I mentioned having seen Snow White on dvd and it looked amazing; like it was made yesterday. So why would I want to upgrade if I already have something that's excellent? There's no such thing as "more excellent".

If the majority of us had thought like this during the transitional era of VHS to DVD (which some of us did) we'd still be living in a time where we had cropped-off images and sticky tapes that'd sometimes collect dirt inside befouling the quality of the image and sound

But see, this argument has been debunked already a lot of times. The upgrade from vhs to dvd was substantial. Dvd had the advantage of not having to rewind anymore (access any scene you want), not wearing out the films anymore (like you mentioned with the vhs), easier storage possibilites, being able to play it on computers etc. The step from dvd to blu is simply too small.

Anyway, back to what I was saying. You can be happy with whatever satisfies your tastes. Hollywood and Disney aren't forcing you to upgrade to Blu;

Well, they released an almost bare-bones 2 disc Snow White dvd and saved all the extra features for the BluRay. Now I can see why they reserve the new features for the Blu, but there was no reason not to carry over the old features from the 2001 edition.

But if we Blu-folk want sharper picture and sound quality, let us have it, and be happy with it and have it satisfy our tastes.

You can have it and enjoy it! Please, do! What I don't appreciate is when BluRay 'fanboys' come to this forum to try to 'convert' us to Blu. It's like they're not satisfied until everybody is on Blu. I don't get this need to convert people who still use dvd.

Welcome to UD, by the way!

[Goliath]

Now the mechanical workings of your mind are clear, and we can put this to rest.

I just hope you weren't secretly offending me here...

[ajmrowland]

[milojthatch]

On the other hand, I do have a problem with Digital Copies being forced down our throats. That truly is a coaster as once you use it, the disc is worthless or if you buy an old Blu-ray, chances are its already expired and the disc is useless. I'm admittedly anti-digital copy (at least until they drop the disc and its all digital).

-------------------------------------------

I think until we get some real news on Fantasia, this thread is going to continue to be off-topic. Disney is just frustrating me with these rediculous delays to make room for other releases I never planned on buying. Now within a 4 month period, Fantasia, Fantasia 2000, Dumbo, and Beauty and the Beast will come out. You can't tell me thats good marketing cramming four major DAC releases so close together. Being catalog titles, they'll need the space apart to maximize sales.

I hope Disney has a reason better then marketing strategy for delaying these releases (restoration would be acceptable, same with testing the waters for an uncut Fantasia). It's annoying to see Warner announce all their classics a year in advance and keep their release schedules while Disney screws with us.

I agree with both statements. Digital copies suck and Disney needs to get more info on Fantasia ASAP!

[yamiiguy]

...I love digital copies.

[podman]

I really can't believe the hubris of the last few DVD posts. "I don't find Blu-ray to be worthy so obviously anyone who does is an idiot."

Hubris? Excuse me, but have you read the last two pages of this thread? Wasn't that one big bashing of dvd and the people who still enjoy it? It's okay to dish it out, but you can't take it in?

Goliath, I never DID "dish it out". So I feel no need to feel good about "taking it". I only asked why you would burn a Blu-ray you have already paid for, given that there is a decent possibility you may have a player in the future that could take advantage of the inarguable superior specs. I was not bashing DVD in any way, and I don't feel the question was unreasonable.

Again, you continually hammer on your idea that DVD is 2-3 years old (or at least that is when it became popular). Again, I would point out that DVD came out in 1997! That is 13 years ago! To think that a home video format won't change in 13 years is just silly. Add to that the fact that Blu-ray players are 100% compatible with DVDs and your reasons for being so against it are simply incomprehendable to many.

Just because some idiot "bashes" DVD (which I haven't seen either in thread BTW) doesn't mean that you must automatically assume the opposite viewpoint. What's wrong with using your head and just saying that you are satisfied with the performance of DVD? Why do you feel the need to condemn all who aren't (and there are a great many) as fools and idiots who can't make their own decisions on what is worthwhile to purchase? You must realize that this is incredibly insulting.

You guys would have much better luck defending DVD if you didn't sound raving mad about it.

It is an undeniable fact that Blu-ray is technologically superior to DVD. This can be (and has been) proven in an almost limitless number of ways. Perhaps you feel that anyone pointing this out is "DVD bashing"? I'm not sure... but to deny this and insult those who don't makes you sound like a crackpot, and people don't often listen to crackpots.

You have several options here:

- You can continue to use and purchase DVD as long as it is available (which will be a long time regardless of what anyone says)
- You can buy a Blu-ray player and purchase new titles on Blu, using your existing DVDs for the older titles
- You can buy a Blu-ray player and replace all the DVDs that you can with Blu-rays as they are released

You can choose any option you like, and nobody should judge you for it. Those that choose the last option usually have large displays that show a dramatic difference.

But the option you DON'T have is to continue calling myself and the MANY people I know who do find Blu-ray to be worthwhile idiots. Well, I suppose you do have that choice but it will only extend this pointless and silly argument. So how about you agree that I'm not an idiot simply because you don't agree with my choice of home video format and I will just shut up and move on. These personal attacks are really out of line.

[Goliath]

Again, you continually hammer on your idea that DVD is 2-3 years old (or at least that is when it became popular). Again, I would point out that DVD came out in 1997! That is 13 years ago!

Yes, and individual dvd's costed a fortune back then, let alone the actual dvd players! When did the public at large adopt dvd? Not that long ago. Not everybody is a technology-freak who's obsessed with the latest gadget; you'll have to accept that.

To think that a home video format won't change in 13 years is just silly. Add to that the fact that Blu-ray players are 100% compatible with DVDs and your reasons for being so against it are simply incomprehendable to many.

Well, I think I explained it pretty well. Dvd brings you great quality in picture and sound, and the step to BluRay is just too small to justify new BluRay players. And you know as well as I do that the companies are trying to get people to buy their old films on BluRay discs again. They say it will give much better quality than just watching an old dvd in the Blu-player. And they will put all of their bonus features on the Blu and not the dvd, like Disney did. So the "dvd is compatible with Blu" is a non-argument.

What's incomprehandable to me -and it's the third time I ask- is why Blu fanboys feel the need to convert everybody to their format. They don't seem to be able to just enjoy what they have. They will not rest until everybody has bought into blu. Why?

Just because some idiot "bashes" DVD (which I haven't seen either in thread BTW)

Oh please, it happens all the time on UD and also in this thread! You are all such hypocrites!

doesn't mean that you must automatically assume the opposite viewpoint. What's wrong with using your head and just saying that you are satisfied with the performance of DVD? Why do you feel the need to condemn all who aren't (and there are a great many) as fools and idiots who can't make their own decisions on what is worthwhile to purchase? You must realize that this is incredibly insulting.

Again, the pot calling the kettle black. And I'm using you to refer to all dvd-bashers now. Have you ever read any of the posts of Rudy Matt, for example, the self-appointed grand priest of bluray-hood?

And no, it's not a situation of "he did it too, so I have to do it too", but you asked me about how I think about Blu. Now I have given the answer, you attack me for answering.

- You can continue to use and purchase DVD as long as it is available (which will be a long time regardless of what anyone says)

In other words: indefinetly.

But the option you DON'T have is to continue calling myself and the MANY people I know who do find Blu-ray to be worthwhile idiots. Well, I suppose you do have that choice

Got that right! And as long as arrogant pricks like Rudy Matt continue to insist that dvd-users are cavemen whom evolution has passed by, I will do so.

but it will only extend this pointless and silly argument. So how about you agree that I'm not an idiot simply because you don't agree with my choice of home video format and I will just shut up and move on. These personal attacks are really out of line.

Excuse me, but where did I ever even say you were an "idiot"? I have trashed the medium, but not the users. I was very careful about that. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said the other way around, if you check UD's history. Don't put words in my mouth. That you're so oversensitive that you feel personally attacked when I trash a medium, is not my fault.

[ajmrowland]

Rudy Matt hasn't been on in awhile. I wonder how he's doing?

[Rudy Matt]

Rudy Matt hasn't been on in awhile. I wonder how he's doing?

Doin' fine, just munching the corn and watching the show. (munch munch munch)

[Elladorine]

Rudy Matt hasn't been on in awhile. I wonder how he's doing?

Doin' fine, just munching the corn and watching the show. (munch munch munch)

Cool. I've got the Milk Buds!

[ajmrowland]

Good! I got the soft drinks!

[BackgroundActorman1976]

Again, you continually hammer on your idea that DVD is 2-3 years old (or at least that is when it became popular). Again, I would point out that DVD came out in 1997! That is 13 years ago!

Yes, and individual dvd's costed a fortune back then, let alone the actual dvd players! When did the public at large adopt dvd? Not that long ago. Not everybody is a technology-freak who's obsessed with the latest gadget; you'll have to accept that.

To think that a home video format won't change in 13 years is just silly. Add to that the fact that Blu-ray players are 100% compatible with DVDs and your reasons for being so against it are simply incomprehendable to many.

Well, I think I explained it pretty well. Dvd brings you great quality in picture and sound, and the step to BluRay is just too small to justify new BluRay players. And you know as well as I do that the companies are trying to get people to buy their old films on BluRay discs again. They say it will give much better quality than just watching an old dvd in the Blu-player. And they will put all of their bonus features on the Blu and not the dvd, like Disney did. So the "dvd is compatible with Blu" is a non-argument.

What's incomprehandable to me -and it's the third time I ask- is why Blu fanboys feel the need to convert everybody to their format. They don't seem to be able to just enjoy what they have. They will not rest until everybody has bought into blu. Why?

Just because some idiot "bashes" DVD (which I haven't seen either in thread BTW)

Oh please, it happens all the time on UD and also in this thread! You are all such hypocrites!

doesn't mean that you must automatically assume the opposite viewpoint. What's wrong with using your head and just saying that you are satisfied with the performance of DVD? Why do you feel the need to condemn all who aren't (and there are a great many) as fools and idiots who can't make their own decisions on what is worthwhile to purchase? You must realize that this is incredibly insulting.

Again, the pot calling the kettle black. And I'm using you to refer to all dvd-bashers now. Have you ever read any of the posts of Rudy Matt, for example, the self-appointed grand priest of bluray-hood?

And no, it's not a situation of "he did it too, so I have to do it too", but you asked me about how I think about Blu. Now I have given the answer, you attack me for answering.

- You can continue to use and purchase DVD as long as it is available (which will be a long time regardless of what anyone says)

In other words: indefinetly.

But the option you DON'T have is to continue calling myself and the MANY people I know who do find Blu-ray to be worthwhile idiots. Well, I suppose you do have that choice

Got that right! And as long as arrogant pricks like Rudy Matt continue to insist that dvd-users are cavemen whom evolution has passed by, I will do so.

but it will only extend this pointless and silly argument. So how about you agree that I'm not an idiot simply because you don't agree with my choice of home video format and I will just shut up and move on. These personal attacks are really out of line.

Excuse me, but where did I ever even say you were an "idiot"? I have trashed the medium, but not the users. I was very careful about that. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said the other way around, if you check UD's history. Don't put words in my mouth. That you're so oversensitive that you feel personally attacked when I trash a medium, is not my fault.

I would hardly call 6 times the resolution a small step. anyone who has seen a properly calibrated high defintion hometheatre set up would disagree with your thought there buddy.

have you ever watched movies on a standard dvd player hooked up to a HDTV, the picture looks like crap not to mention the sheer number of catalog titles that never recieved an anamorphic release.

the only way a standard dvd looks good on a HDTV is if you have it playing through a bluray,HDDVD player or if you bought one of the 150 dollar upconverting dvd players with a hdmi port otherwise it looks like crap.

now its one thing if the reason you dont want to convert to bluray is because you still have a old style standard def tv, but to sit there a bash a technology that provides the best in picture in sound ever availble on home video is just assanine.

[CampbellzSoup]

Are DVDs owners jealous of Blu Ray owners??

[ajmrowland]

^Here's your flameshield

[Rudy Matt]

Hey, guys - I don't bash DVDs at all. I love DVDs, which is why I have over 1000 of them. Seriously, three walls in my bedroom are devoted to DVD shelves and towers.

I bought a BluRay player before I bought an HD set, for the sole purpose of showing my wife the Special Edition of Close Encounters of the Third Kind (Blu-Ray) and Pinocchio (Limited Edition DVD) on the same night. She had never seen Pinocchio, and had never seen CE3k. So, a double feature was natural, what with all the allusions and references to Disney and Pinocchio in CE3K. We watched Pinocchio first, then CE3K, and she was thrilled by both (especially John Williams cover of "When You Wish Upon a Star" at the end of the Special Edition version. And even via a SVHS cable, playing on a 4:3 set, the difference between the BRD of CE3K and the DVD was striking.

Naturally, this led to the purchase of an HDTV, and we haven't looked back. Yes, the difference is readily apparent. Sleeping Beauty and Pinocchio are absolutely astonishing on BR. So are many other titles. Granted, some titles don't have that HD "pop", but this is no way is indicative of BRD as a whole.

But I have no animosity or hate for DVD. The great thing about BRD is that you get the best of both worlds - Blu-Ray players upscale your existing DVDs, and they play the latest BR discs, with 6 times the resolution. What's not to like?

I seriously think the animosity is coming from people who have large collections and resent the idea that their collections are obsolete. They resent the idea that they are being forced into a new format, and see the whole thing as a corporate collusion. It is understandable to have these opinions, but as one who has loved the Disney films all his life, I am absolutely thrilled by the quality of Disney films on the BR format. People want to stay with DVD, that's fine. I'll be collecting Blus from now on and still enjoying my DVD collection. It's all good.

Granted, some of you Blu-haters get my dander up from time to time, but I doubt you'll be seeing more of that from me anytime soon. Life's too short.

[miniroll32]

The argument is completely ridiculous. I can't believe how sad and childish some of you are that you have to fight to 'defend' a format of film. Just enjoy whatever equipment/discs you own and stop bitching!

Besides, this is the Fantasia thread