The Princess and the Frog Discussion - Part II

[Disney's Divinity]

I find it all rather refreshing! I'm sick of princess movies; their characters are too boring. Tiana will probably be the best woman Disney has ever created. If she turns out to be another horrid princess like the others, I'm going to be very disappointed. I never bought the whole princess thing. When I was a kid, I watched Little Mermaid and thought, "Why didn't Ariel destroy Ursula herself? That's so weird and awkward."

That's a strange view, considering TP&TF was obviously conceived of to restart Disney with the Princess formula for a 3rd time. Seeing as the princesses were/are successful, and Disney is clearly trying to imitate that same success with another princess, it's strange to expect that this film should not or would not be like the previous "Princess" films.

And while I sympathize with your dislike of the Princesses, they've proven to be very worth recreating.

[The Little Merboy]

I dunno if that's Charlotte, but whoever the blonde wishing on the star is, made me laugh so hard. I dunno why, if it was her heavy "PLEASE!" But it def. gave me the giggles.

[Jules]

I dunno if that's Charlotte, but whoever the blonde wishing on the star is, made me laugh so hard. I dunno why, if it was her heavy "PLEASE!" But it def. gave me the giggles.

You're right, it was funny! Especially all that dissolving mascara!

[blackcauldron85]

http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/ ... works.html

The Princess and the Frog animators have pretty much wrapped work on the picture, but the cleanup folkss soldier on.:

"Almost all of the cleanup people are done the end of July. A few will stay on into August. There's a short to work on, and maybe something after that. But most of the crew will come back in eight or nine months for Winnie the Pooh..."

[pap64]

I dunno if that's Charlotte, but whoever the blonde wishing on the star is, made me laugh so hard. I dunno why, if it was her heavy "PLEASE!" But it def. gave me the giggles.

Yep, that was Charlotte alright. I really want to see how Charlotte and Tiana's relationship in the movie is. It seems that they are only frenemies in the sense that one's very, very spoiled and idealistic and the other is very realistic but hopeful within.

[ajmrowland]

Well, they do have plans to reopen the Sleeping Beauty Attraction.

That's been reopened for a while, bud.

oh, crap.

[Disney Duster]

And while I sympathize with your dislike of the Princesses

You do?

I wonder if Disney wants to use Pixar to make them more money, so maybe they don't care if Pixar becomes them.

But to me they will always be seperate, and I think even Pixar itself wants to be seperate. So, there's that. Walt would want them to be seperate, though. And I feel they are being more seperate than Dreamworks and whoever.

Pap, I'm actually alright with Tiana so far. Walt said himself Cinderella believed in wishing but was more proactive than Snow White. I'm not alright with Disney making the fairy tale modern instead of trying to make (their idea of) the original, old, classic medieval version, but I have to accept that this is a nice way of making a black princess and it doesn't mean someday they couldn't do the accurate German version of the original story.

[PrincePhillipFan]

That's been reopened for a while, bud.

oh, crap.

Yep, it's been opened since late November. Here's a book I did about the current walk-thru that's now opened with pictures courtesy of Davelandweb.com.

http://www.ultimatedisney.com/forum/vie ... highlight=

Shameless plug I know.

And speaking of the PatF, now I'm even more hyped up to see more of it. I don't want to spoil everything about it for me, but I can't help but look more and more into it. And I agree that if that's Charlotte then she'll be hilarious.

[pap64]

Phillip: I feel the same way. I have said in the past its best to avoid new footage otherwise you will get excited. But the footage is wonderful and Disney is pushing this movie hard and looks to be one of their best movies yet. Its hard NOT to get excited!

As for Tiana, here's what I think...

As with any little girl Tiana used to love fairy tales and magic and shared this love with Charlotte. In the stills you see little Tiana wearing a crown and being happy about the stories her mother tells her. Her father even encouraged her to wish upon the evening star, a Disney tradition that is still alive. But when her father passes away and her dream of owning a restaurant becomes harder to achieve she decides to be real and work hard, while Charlotte still holds for fairy tale ideals alive, making her immature and spoiled.

In a way, Disney is characterizing the fear that being into princesses could turn a little girl into a crazy woman when she grows up, which again I find weird and ironic since the movie is receiving a huge push from the Disney Princess line. But I think Tiana will learn to be hopeful and accept magic into her life once she is done with her froggy ordeal.

It wouldn't be a Disney film without it .

[ajmrowland]

That's a nice book. i didnt no so little was changed from the original.

[Disney Duster]

Charlotte still holds for fairy tale ideals alive, making her immature and spoiled.

You think that makes a person immature and spoiled?

And if not, you think it's okay for Disney to say that it does in this movie?

Yes, you have to sympathize with me, this is dangerously coming close to saying bad things about the previous princesses and their films, especially the Walt ones.

[magicalwands]

Charlotte still holds for fairy tale ideals alive, making her immature and spoiled.

You think that makes a person immature and spoiled?

And if not, you think it's okay for Disney to say that it does in this movie?

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Walt's films. It's just...it sort of does make you immature and spoiled. It's one thing to want to find someone, but another to just hope that a they will come and be and do everything for you. Especially how realistic this film is going for (apart from the magic), it is very ridiculous to believe in such a concept.

[pap64]

Charlotte still holds for fairy tale ideals alive, making her immature and spoiled.

You think that makes a person immature and spoiled?

And if not, you think it's okay for Disney to say that it does in this movie?

Yes, you have to sympathize with me, this is dangerously coming close to saying bad things about the previous princesses and their films, especially the Walt ones.

Note that I haven't seen the film. I am just assuming since in the preview clip not only is she wearing a princess outfit she was crying over apparently not having her dream come true, which caused Tiana to say "You can't wish upon a star".

My sources of knowledge are limited. Again, I am just assuming that Charlotte might be a spoiled brat with the limited info I have.

Also, remember that Tiana learns that the world can be fun and magical and that its OK to wish upon the evening star, something she learns from both her father and Naveen so even if the movie takes friendly jabs at the princess concept it still pays respect to the magic of Disney.

[Disney Duster]

Hm, I wonder if Charlotte is some kind of jab at Cinderella, intended to look like her and cry and stuff.

I hope you're right about Tiana, and the film, turning around pap.

[pap64]

Hm, I wonder if Charlotte is some kind of jab at Cinderella, intended to look like her and cry and stuff.

I hope you're right about Tiana, and the film, turning around pap.

Oh, the film will turn around.

Let me explain myself one more time. I'm not saying that Tiana mocks the typical Disney archetype and that Charlotte is pushing that even further. What I believe is that according to how these characters were raised they grew up with different ideals.

Charlotte comes from a rich family and is likely spoiled. She believes in the magic of the fairy tales because its likely that whatever she asked for she got it right away. So when Prince Naveen fails to show up at her mansion she is likely crying and cursing the evening star for not "granting her wish". Meanwhile, Tiana was taught with these storybook beliefs but also learned about the value of hard work. Its why she gets so happy when she sees her future restaurant.

"Look at it mama! Doesn't it make you cry?". She sounds like a Disney Princess there, full of hope and life, simply because she is working hard and believes she is closer to achieving her goals.

From my understanding, Naveen and Tiana's journey changes them. Naveen learns to be more responsible, that life isn't all fun and games. While Tiana learns that its OK to have fun and believe in magic.

And considering she faces not one but TWO voodoo magicians, a jazz playing alligator, a lovesick firefly and many other magical elements Tiana will definitely be a different person at the end of the movie. I think she becomes a Disney Princess in more ways than one.

So I wouldn't worry about it .

[BelleGirl]

Guys, have you seen this:


http://www.awntv.com/videos/the-princes ... featurette

"The princess and the frog - return to hand drawn animation featurette"

My apology if it's been posted before.

[singerguy04]

yeah, it was posted a few pages back... but it's a neat clip and I forgot about it so thanks! lol

[Siren]

pap64, I think you are on the right track for what the storyline is. It does make a lot of sense and sounds like a great story. I actually make be disappointed if you are wrong lol

[nomad2010]

pap64, I think you are on the right track for what the storyline is. It does make a lot of sense and sounds like a great story. I actually make be disappointed if you are wrong lol

so i just got back from seeing ice age. and at my theater now (last time i was there they put up alice in wonderland banners)...now.. they have put up a giant 12 ft tall poster for this. It's just the poster only huge. it wasn't hanging on the ceiling though. it was hanging on a stand metal stand (fancy) on the floor with Walt Disney Pictures written on the bottom.

[kurtadisneyite]

A good friend of mine, a Disney animator since SLEEPING BEAUTY, saw a bunch of recent tests of TPATF. His general comments:

Technically it looks great.
Storywise, it's more akin to Warner Brothers than old school Disney. It doesn't create a "magical world" rather than present a contemporary viewpoint and dialog lacking any special qualities akin to the older Disney films.

Given the huge impact Anime, Chuck Jones and the Internet has had on 2D animation, his comments are exactly what I expected.

IMHO,
Those wanting "Old School" Disney animation in new classics should stick with Pixar films. That's where the "Disney magic" lives today.

Then again, TPATF is in early stages. Perhaps it will get a real dose of magic before it's released.