What's your religion?

[Goliath]

[About my quotes] Yeah, sooooo mature.

What's not mature about my post? You take out one line from a much longer post of mine, take it out of context and present it as 'evidence' of my supposed immaturity. I was having (or trying to have) an informed discussion with Black Pearl and Disney Duster. In this discussion, I ask questions about the many strange and contradictory things that I see in christianity. Surely, there's nothing immature about that.

Yet you just quoted rules to some one else about excessive Quoting. This does not contravene any rules though does it? Or contradict or make you a hypocrite about breaking rules.

I'm sure I have not the slighest idea what you're talking about. Do you mean to say I broke the rule about excessive quoting? But I didn't do that. So why does me asking other people not to quote that much, make me a hypocrite?

Could you all stop the swearing now? We all know how big it makes you to come into a religious thread, (on a site with youngsters, ladies & for that matter, gentlemen,) actually take the time to think of what you want to type, then take the time to do so.

Oooooh! *Now* I get it! You're a member of the Decency and Morality Police, patrolling this thread. Why, I guess you're even the lead detective, aren't you? Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I don't think anyone here has called for your assistence.

It is not like it even slipped out. Oh how original these arguments are (not), that I keep hearing against, in this thread on religion.

And you're in the Originality Police, too! My, what a busy life you must lead! But pray tell, which of the arguments *in favor* of religion that are used in this thread, would you characterize as 'original', inspector? The "God works in mysterious ways"-argument; the "well, it's in the Bible"-argument; or the "you have to really believe in it"-argument?

You might as well record it and play it again, and again, and again

Like your arguments?

Actually, the only time I repeat an argument is when my argument hasn't gotten debunked, or hasn't been adressed at all, which happens a lot in this thread. Somehow, some people seem to believe that spamming Bible verses qualifies as an argument, even when they don't have the slightest connection to my argument. Does this explanation satisfy you, inspector?

If someone has a belief in football where else is he going to go to get information about the rules in football from, a cricket rulebook?

Hold on, inspector... You're telling me football is a religion now? When did that happen? Or are you trying to dupe us with a baloney comparison?

So where does a believer in Christ go to get the answers if not the bible.

But can't you see that's just the whole point? Me and others have been pointing to the many inconsistencies, omissions and contradictions in the Bible, so why would spamming verses from it mean anything? So far, these objections have not been adressed adequately by others. Also, we have two devout christians in this thread who not only contradict each other, but also contradict the Bible. And then we haven't even gone into the many scriptures that were left outside the Bible; scriptures that were once deemed holy, but have been shoved aside by the church leaders: petty, earthly people who knew nothing more about God than anybody else. Yet you follow this book religiously, while it's put together by men, not by God. God's not a publisher.

Of course, you get the same answers from other (true) Christians, they have the same instructor.

Tell me, inspector, how can you tell if someone is a 'true' christian? Many a war has been fought over that; many people have been tortured and burned at the stakes over that. Is a 'true' christian a Catholic, a Baptist, a Lutheran, an Anglican, an Evangelist? How can you tell?

Hebrews ch13v8 says, “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today & forever. If he is no different EVER, to change anything (including the 10 commandments,) could not be of him. So a different answer as opposed to getting the same answer over & over, would be wrong/bad.

As I pointed out above, there are many christian denominations. All these christians have a different idea about the Bible, God and Jesus, otherwise they wouldn't organize and believe seperately, now would they? So your idea that Jesus and the Bible and all that all mean the same to all christians, is not true. You're infighting, you're quarreling amongst each other , yet you still are arrogant enough to pretend you know 'The Truth'.

So why do you expect answers other than the ones you hate.

Look, inspector, obviously you're not familiar with the way discussions on a forum work. I put forth an argument, or a question, and someone else gives a reply, or an answer. If the reply or answer doesn't make any sense to me, then, in a regular forum discussion, I would point that out and counter the argument back. But you want us to *not* discuss. You want us to shut up, even when arguments and answers don't answer our questions adequately. You want us to be satisfied with replies which we don't deem satisfactory. And why is that? Because the topic here is religion. Inspector, you're behaving like the church leaders of yore: no discussion, just shut up and be quiet. You have some nerve, trying to tell us what we should or shouldn't discuss!

This only makes sense, when you read the previously covered verse by Black pearl, about false teachers tickling or itching ears & telling them what they want to hear.

Isn't it true that this is just another cover-up for you and your fellow christians to kill of any discussion, inspector? What you're saying here is that *your* answers are the only right answers. That, if someone (like me) isn't satisfied with the answer, it's *his* fault. Because he doesn't want to hear 'The Truth'. Are you really so deluded that you think you can decide for all of us what is right and what is wrong?

If you seriously are searching, stop kicking & fighting on the way, at someone who has cared enough to spend probably several hours finding the right answers for you, only to use foul language etc at them, then you act put out because you bit the hand that was feeding you.

Oh, I'm sorry! I didn't realize I had to bow down to Black Pearl and Disney Duster for spamming Bible verses at me. I beg your pardon. I forgot to kiss the ground they walk on, simply for engaging in an internet discussion with me. Please forgive me, inspector, I have been unworthy. Of course I should have shut up and swallowed their Truths. After all, we all *know* Black Pearl and Disney Duster are the ultimate source of knowledge. Thank you guys, for putting up with me.

And I'm sorry I used foul language at you, because... Hey, wait a minute... I didn't do that! You're framing me here, inspector. You wanna pin something on me I didn't do.

Anybody having this fight going on inside, & wondering what is going on. It is a battle, you are being fought for. Jesus is knocking, “will you let me in,” while the one who has whispered in your ear, probably all of your life telling you, you are a failure, you are worthless, useless or one of his other lies, is fighting to hang on to you & drag you down with him.

Er... I thought you were a detective, you know, of the Decency and Morality Police. But now you're starting to sound like a priest. No, wait... like a 'televangelist'! That's it. I know the phenomenon. You want money, isn't it? Where can I donate? And if I donate, will you please stop making these absurd, ludicrous, bizarre posts? Because frankly, you're beginning to scare the shit out of me.

I'm sorry, I meant to say: the doody. You scare the doody out of me.

The bible says Mathew ch 6v24 “No one can serve two masters: either he will hate the one & love the other; or he will be devoted to the one, & despise the other” We serve one or the other, the choice is ours. The change is so easy to make. But the enemy will tell you anything to stop you. He is the father of all lies. He has many names, you will know him as the devil. Just ask for help, & you will get it. Jesus came for the broken, weak, & sinner. He did not come for the proud. Tell him you need him.

@ Disney boy. I have to thank you for your facebook joke. I honestly had tears in my eyes with laughter. I know God found that funny too. (He does have a sense of humour).

Oh, did he send you a PM telling you that? Or do you have him on AIM? Can't you ask him if he would please answer my e-mails to him?

The three musketeers in this thread go prowling from thread to thread, enjoying themselves at the expense of the majority, whatever the topic.

Oh, oh, can I be d'Artagnan? I always loved him the best!

There is a name for people like that, they call it cyber bullies, then they try to hide it in the guise of discussing.

Doesn't the Bible say that only God should make judgements?

By the way, televangelist, what do they call someone who sticks his nose in other people's business when nobody had asked for it? And how do they call someone who attacks other people for no reason, other than simply disagreeing with them? And how do they call people who call other people names, simply because they have made arguments they don't agree with?

Oh, right, a flamer! (Also known as a troll.)

Anyone can see whatever the subject, it is attack. I had a class full of people like this in my school days, I stood up to them all. Shortly after, one was shot dead by the police, others became drug addicts, and most of the rest ended up inside prison doing time. So nothing became of their lives. So if any one needs to listen & study discuss & question (not argue) with black pearl, I would say it is people that fit this description.

Religious nut would be quite accurate, after all, we are nutty about Jesus. Or fanatic could be appropriate like a football ‘fanatic,’ we are fanatic about the one we have a personal relationship with. We don’t mind the ‘I don’t know what it is, I will poke it with a stick’ attitude.

The phrase religion to me means a man made thing. As super aurora said they cause wars, etc. However we do not have religion, we have God. That is a big difference. The world has ‘religions’. We have a father that loves his children & treats us accordingly. That includes rebuking us too.

Again thanks for your contribution, if it bothers others, I don’t know why they come in this thread other than to fight & nit pick, & I am not talking about those with a difference of opinion. We welcome people asking genuine questions don’t we,

No, you don't. You don't like it. You try to shut them up; you try to have them be silent. You demand we accept your 'explanations' without a single doubt. You expect us to accept everything you, and your fellow christians say, otherwise you'll brand us like trolls or flamers. And that, my dear televangelist, is what makes you the biggest hypocrite of this entire thread.

[Scarred4life]

Waltmad, what exactly did you accomplished in that post? You did not ask any questions, nor answer any. (Which is more or less how a discussion works) You basically insulted the people who were speaking against your religion, and commended the ones who were speaking for your religion. This is not contributing to the discussion in any way, but the posts you were speaking out against did. No one (except you) has insulted anyone personally, just their arguments. As Goliath said, we ask questions, and expect proper answers. If the answers are not satisfactory, we ask again.

Oh, and may I suggest researching cyberbullying a little more? Here's the definition, from UrbanDictionary.com

"Cyberbullying involves the use of information and communication technologies such as e-mail, cell phone and pager text messages, instant messaging, defamatory personal Web sites, and defamatory online personal polling Web sites, to support deliberate, repeated, and hostile behaviour by an individual or group, that is intended to harm others."

Since our posts did not intend to harm others, it's not cyberbullying. There is a difference between someones feelings getting hurt and being a bully.

[Super Aurora]

I wash my hands of you completely.

And that's the last thing I have to say to you.

I usually don’t like to meddle into other people’s lashing, but I just want to say that unlike B.P. or waltmad, I don’t think Duster is really intending to piss you guys off or trying flame. Maybe he just worded that bit off from emotional frustration. As much as we or anyone argue alot on Duster’s case, let try be little more lax on him.

Being hated is proof that we are on the right tracks. Read b.p’s posts.

You sound very much like the mindset the Westboro Bapist Church have....

Tell me, inspector, how can you tell if someone is a 'true' christian? Many a war has been fought over that; many people have been tortured and burned at the stakes over that. Is a 'true' christian a Catholic, a Baptist, a Lutheran, an Anglican, an Evangelist? How can you tell?

I think I know what’s he saying here. I recently met someone at work who is similar like this. Basically a “true” christain is a christain who follow the bible strictly and only the bible. No religious section he/she part him/herself with. Like I as my co worker, what sect of christianity she of, and she said, “none. Just Christain. Only thing to me is with the bible....etc etc” So basically, you’re a true christain if you follow the bible and only the bible strictly.

I didn't realize I had to bow down to Black Pearl and Disney Duster for spamming Bible verses at me.

After all, we all *know* Black Pearl and Disney Duster are the ultimate source of knowledge.

As I said before with Lazario, I wouldn’t clump Duster with B.P or Waltmad. In fact I don’t recall Duster even spamming bible quotes at all either. Sure duster doesn’t always bring the best argument or always make most sense to us, but I’d try be a little more lax on him than the other two.

Oh, right, a flamer! (Also known as a troll.)

He’s not even worthy of a title of troll. Trolls are funny. He isn’t.


btw, did you get my pm Goliath?

[Goliath]

btw, did you get my pm Goliath?

Yes, I did receive it. But as you will have noticed, this thread has kept me busy, so you'll have to wait a bit for my response.

By the way, I don't think Duster is a 'bad guy' (or a troll). I do think he's too self-righteous at times, but I must confess I'm not completely off the hook when it comes to that either. What rubs me the wrong was, is that Duster says that people who don't agree with him on religion, are "empty inside" or even "evil". That shocked me; I've taken a lot from him, but I never expected he would go that far.

[Lazario]

And for me - it was too far.

[Super Aurora]

btw i had to post this:

[waltmad]

“consider me officially part of the "We Need a UD Ignore Button" club.”

Get her one that makes her ignore me, black pearl, duster, Disney boy & any one else that has an opinion to SHARE as opposed to a I am right about everything attitude, & I will pay for it, If she can learn how to use it & gets the will power to (who knows where from)
Do not worry duster, Laz never sticks to what she says

Thing is, Deist don't go around praying, worshiping and relying on God.

& That is the difference. However you are telling us what you believe, which is all B.P. is doing. Free will says pick one…. Or not, or even don’t listen, but to keep trying to take someone’s beliefs away, or keep insulting, (anul is rather insulting here in uk for instance, or words like p*ss & so on are swearing) for all you know, you are for instance, talking to a 13 year old girl. But I must admit, of the 3, you are the least to make trouble.
Back to what you believe, it keeps being repeated about b.p. ramming down throats, you are free to believe the moon is made of cheese & try to debate & convince anyone you want, they can choose to listen, or not, & believe, or not. I would have to respect your choice even if I found it hilarious. But why don’t we get the same back. We don’t mind, but then to keep being accused of hypocrisy when the meaning of the word is nothing related to which it is referring, & the like, is not what is needed to be said, rather than making a Valid criticism. This is how it has been since the beginning of time though, so I doubt if you or I will change much, but like you said, about religions respecting each other, we DO respect other beliefs & agree to disagree. No one is forcing anything. We are telling what we have learnt & sharing it with those that want to listen. So if they don’t like it, why listen? Nothing wrong with that. In fact they (other opinions/beliefs) have as much right as us to spout off here if they so wish, as long as it is not a suicidal cult or the like. (No they don’t have the right, before someone argues that, it is illegal for one thing)
We are also only acting in the same traditions as our fathers & forefathers before us. Like B.P. said, “he is the same yesterday today & forever”, so the only thing that has changed is this generation, not us. But I wont bore you with how the bible prophesied that this is what the last generation in this ‘season’ would be like. (Commonly known as the last days).

As for jokes, you say you are joking but according to laz, B.p. is not allowed to make any in this serious discussion which led to a joke about laz’s nosiness in a private matter. & Did laz not say something about Maher & Carlin, 2 unheard of comedians over here I believe, joking about this same subject, but finding that ok? We’re hypocrites? So no matter what B.P. or I say, we are damned if we do & damned if we don’t. But I don’t hear Laz knocking you for the same offence. It does not matter what B.P. does, someone is there to have a go, & you have joined in too. But if we were to bitch back, we would be wrong for that. Holier than though is also a favourite, yet B.P. clearly stated correctly, she is a sinner, (as am I) how is B.P. yet again what they are being called, holier than thou? All the dragging down in the world has not stopped Christians from telling our beliefs & never will. Hence we believe, in desperation, the enemy (devil) tries to counterfeit the true Gospel (scriptural) & uses amongst his arsenal of weaponry, false teachers to give a false version of the gospel, Tarring us with the same brush. If we want anything confirmed, without taking it out of context, we go to the bible, our instruction book, even if the preacher says so, what does the bible say? What’s wrong with that or for that matter answering questions from it to others. Why is that a problem/issue.

If as you say you are just joking, it would go a long way to clean up choice of words & to stop trying to convince that which is clearly a huge part of someone’s life, & gives comfort & support, that it is wrong/pointless or a pathetic God or whatever you believe. Thanks for your time.

[Black pearl]

To Waltmad.
Sorry for the delayed response.

1st I would like to thank you for speaking up for God and his word and telling a few home truths as Jesus did.
2nd Thank you for your kind words of encouragement.

There is a teaching on the Jewish feasts by Mark Biltz that shows how the 2nd coming is in 2015 (of course the rapture before)

Thank you for that link, I have actually heard Mark Biltz talking about this with a man named Sid Roth on a program called it’s supernatural . Here is a link to that interview:
http://www.sidroth.org/site/News2?page= ... 0&abbr=tv_
I found it very interesting, I will have to check that dvd out to see what else he has to say!
THE KING IS COMING!!! Sqweeeee excited!!!
And thank you for the other links about them actually finding Noah’s ark etc, that is all very wonderful, I’m sure it will make some people think.

Perhaps briefly, you would like to explain for the benefit of those that don’t know but would like too, what the rapture & 2nd coming are, as explained by the bible?

Thanks for bringing that up, I’d be glad to:
The rapture is when Jesus gathers all who are his together, then takes them to heaven in the last days.

1 Thessalonians ch 4 v 15-17 “according to the lords own words, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the lord in the air. And so we will be with the lord for ever.”

This will happen in the twinkling of an eye and we will be transformed .
Philippians ac3 v 20-21 “But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a saviour from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control. Will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body....”

There are a lot of different opinions when this will happen i.e. Pre, mid or post tribulation, but I believe it is pre-tribulation because it says in Revelation ch 3 v 10 “Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.”

So all who belong to Christ will not have to suffer the tribulation.

The tribulation (Armageddon) is the time between the rapture and the 2nd coming, here are some points from
Matthew ch 24 but you need to read the whole thing:
v 3 the disciples asked Jesus “when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of your coming, and of the end of the world, v 4;5 Jesus answered, many will come in my name and say I am Christ (modern translation false Christians) and shall deceive many. V6 you shall hear wars and rumours of wars: don’t be troubled: all these things must happen, but it is still not the end yet, v 7 nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom: there shall be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in diverse places, (places you would not normally get them) v 9 then they will deliver you (Christians) to be afflicted and to kill you: you will be hated by all nations because of my name. V 10 then many will be offended and betray each other and hate each other, v 11 many false prophets will appear and deceive many. V 12 “Because sin is plentiful the love of many will grow cold” v 13 “but he that endures till the end will be saved.” V 21 “then there will be tribulation that has not been since the beginning of the world nor shall ever be again.”

chapter 24 is much more detailed, this is abbreviated to shorten this post, read it for yourselves.
The tribulation is also the time of the anti Christ and the mark of the beast, If those that are left behind accept the mark of the beast they will not be able to enter the kingdom of heaven but will go to hell.

Revelation ch 14 v 9-12... If any man worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out into the cup of his indignation; and shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angles, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment goes up for eternity: and they have no rest day or night, they who worship the beast and his image, and who ever receives the mark of his name.

The bible also says no one will be able to buy or sell with out this mark in:
Revelation ch 13 v 17 no man shale buy or sell without the mark of the beast.

In this period, those that have accepted Jesus but not received the mark, shall still go to heaven. It says (because you can not buy or sell without the mark) patience will be needed, for instance, how will you buy food with out the mark?
Dose it not make sense to seek and accept him now, instead of after the rapture, rather than being left behind?

The 2nd coming is when we come back with Jesus and rule with him for a 1000 years.
Revelation ch 20 v 6 blessed and holy are they that have part in the first resurrection ( those that died followers of Christ and were raised to go up with those in the rapture) where the second death (Hell) has no power over them, but they shall reign with Christ on earth for a thousand years.

I hope this helps anybody interested.
If you have genuine questions about this I will be glad to try and help. But as much as I would like to have discussions on this topic, as it is so time consuming, could you please ask your question as opposed to a debate, thank you.

54321 LET THE ATTACKS COMENCE

Lol That rally tickled me, thanks for a good laugh.
Keep fighting the good fight, God bless.

[waltmad]

Tell me, inspector, how can you tell if someone is a 'true' christian? Many a war has been fought over that; many people have been tortured and burned at the stakes over that. Is a 'true' christian a Catholic, a Baptist, a Lutheran, an Anglican, an Evangelist? How can you tell?

I don’t understand why you keep asking questions then don’t listen to the answers. You get upset at “spamming” the bible which is correctly like you say what I quote. So why answer if you don’t listen. Answer, because when I do, others that may actually want to hear what the creator says, can do so. So I used my Ignore button but it filtered out this good question. As I said, the answers are in previous posts. Those that need a white stick for Christmas will not see what is actually being said. But for those that would like to know, the answer given in previous posts by us “spammers” is FOR WHOSOEVER, so that includes all of them, you too. Further good questions can also get good answers in previous posts, so I will not be wasting my time anymore on someone who does not want to hear what is actually already answered, or you may repeat your comment about “quoting over and over and over”.

basically, you’re a true christain if you follow the bible and only the bible strictly.

Exactly. Thank you.

[waltmad]

@ Black pearl

[Disney's Divinity]

Like B.P. said, “he is the same yesterday today & forever”, so the only thing that has changed is this generation, not us. But I wont bore you with how the bible prophesied that this is what the last generation in this ‘season’ would be like. (Commonly known as the last days).

So I suppose I won't bore you with the fact that people have been proclaiming the Bible has prophesized their generation as the last for the past 2,000 years.

[Goliath]

I don’t understand why you keep asking questions then don’t listen to the answers.

I don't understand why you engage in discussions when you expect everybody to automatically agree with you on everything you say, and then get upset when someone doesn't. Also, this question I haven't asked before and I'd like to see it answered.

You get upset at “spamming” the bible which is correctly like you say what I quote. So why answer if you don’t listen.

Just because you give any answer, doesn't make the answer adequate. It's not like I have to accept everything you say without counter-arguing. I'm sorry, but that's how a duscussion forum works. If you don't understand that, that's your bad. On top of that, (and this goes for Black Pearl too) you might want to give answers that actually have a relation to my questions. Because I don't ask "what's in the Bible?" If I wanted to know that, I would get my copy and look it up. I have read most of what's in there, but quoting it to show you know it by heart doesn't impress me at all. Repeating is easy, thinking for yourself is harder.

Answer, because when I do, others that may actually want to hear what the creator says, can do so.

So when did 'the creator' appoint you as his spokesperson? I think he's embarrassed by now, by what you've said here.

Further good questions can also get good answers in previous posts, so I will not be wasting my time anymore on someone who does not want to hear what is actually already answered, or you may repeat your comment about “quoting over and over and over”.

In other words: when somebody questions your answers, you will not reply to them anymore. That's what you're saying here. You need to look up the definition of a 'discussion' badly.

basically, you’re a true christain if you follow the bible and only the bible strictly.

Exactly. Thank you.

You're missing the whole point of my question. What is 'following the Bible'? If you give the Bible to ten random christians, all ten will read it differently, interpret it differently and act differently accordingly. For example: many christians are against homosexuality because of the Bible-verse where it says that no man should lie with another man, the way they would lie with a woman. But here in this thread we have Disney Duster, a christian, but also a gay man himself, who says that verse doesn't mean God is against homosexuality.

So again, I ask you: what makes a 'true' christian and who is to be the judge of that? I always thought God was supposed to be the final judge, but you act as if you can be a judge in his place. (Isn't that pride, one of the seven deadly sins?)

[CJ]

While I would hate to put a halt to all discussion on this subject, I will be forced to lock this thread if it continues on the current path. Please keep all the forum "rules and guidelines" in mind before posting. Any personal attacks from this point on whether blatant or thinly veiled will result in the thread closure.

[Kraken Guard]

Im afraid i must say that i am not religious in any way for the time being. It may change down the road but i dont think it's very likely.


You can blame Judge Claude Frollo.

But no.. Frollo is not the reason why i am not religious. But like i said: It may change further down the road, but it's not likely. I may write stories or fiction where there are fictional religions, but i dont think that makes me all that religious in any way..


Yeah, aren't i the one to spark discussion? Im sorry.

[Lazario]

I think this says a lot:

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When you follow "The Good Book" so literally, you end up acting like this guy. So critical of the entire human race, other people can't stand you anymore.

[waltmad]

the Bible has prophesized their generation as the last for the past 2,000 years.

Nope! Sorry, but wouldn’t you agree that people have said that, not the bible? They did not read or understand what it actually says. They are human & susceptible to mistakes. As I have said, none of us are perfect. What the Bible does say is quite a lot on the subject, but to narrow it down to one simple point, there will be no sign of him returning until the Jews were back home in their land. ‘Then this generation shall not pass’. Wasn’t it 1947 ish they returned to their land? & people from that generation are still alive are they not? I insist as I believe the Bible keeps being misquoted as am I, that the people that do this, show me where it is people in the bible said this for 2000 years or other ‘quotes’ like this one. Otherwise isn’t that a false representation & blowing the argument out of the water? Of course if you misunderstand something, that is different. But if not, why quote incorrectly for arguments sake? If I were proved wrong, then I would owe you an apology. So lets all stick to facts eh. Any way, for me it is not about proving you wrong, it is about sharing what the bible says. It does not matter what I, or the preacher thinks, but as I keep saying, what does the Bible say. Sorry if it bored you, but you did try to catch me out, which is good. How else can you learn if answers are not available? I go to the bible for mine.

i am not religious in any way for the time being.

Totally your choice of course. We are praying for you & others to find him. Hope that is not thought of as ramming it down your throat, that is not the intention. Welcome to the hottest thread here.


I think you misunderstand an awful lot of what I say.

I don't understand why you engage in discussions when you expect everybody to automatically agree with you on everything you say,

Kindly show me where I was not putting a point over, without expecting everybody to agree with it.

It's not like I have to accept everything you say without counter-arguing.

Discussing would be much more civil, & then agreeing to disagree if no agreement.
Don’t you agree? (I actually read this back to myself but am to tired to change it)

I don't ask "what's in the Bible?" If I wanted to know that, I would get my copy and look it up.
but quoting it to show you know it by heart doesn't impress me at all. Repeating is easy

I don’t know why you think I am trying to impress you.
Much quoting takes the whole evening to make sure I get it right for you, so if you don’t appreciate my giving up my evening for you, don’t keep asking me stuff, especially when

“I don't ask what's in the Bible” If I wanted to know that, I would get my copy and look it up.

I wish you would, it would save me a lot of work, for your benefit. Why don’t you? It is all I am giving answers from. Why don’t you want to know that? Why ask me then, when that’s all I can tell you. I try to follow it with my life, why would I divert from that for a stranger when I don’t for myself? I do not know the bible by heart nor know anyone who does. It takes work, study & guidance from the Holy Spirit. Who by the way will not take any credit but gives it all to God. So I do too, for the help & patience he gives me.

So when did 'the creator' appoint you as his spokesperson? I think he's embarrassed by now, by what you've said here.

Is this the actual question now? I keep repeating, the answers are in previous posts. He has instructed us all to go into all the world & teach the good news (gospel). That was Jesus, as for when, about 2,000 years ago. What I have been saying here are his words backed with where they are, (bible quotes that you detest & want me to not quote) so why would he say them if my repeating them, then showing you where he said it, so you can check for yourself, me having done all the work for you, if he is embarrassed by by what I have said. If I am wrong quoting him, who (don’t forget previous posts) is also God, then doesn’t that make him wrong too.

In other words: when somebody questions your answers, you will not reply to them anymore. That's what you're saying here.

Cor. Can I make a joke without you being offended. Polly want a cracker.
Answer, No! I will not keep wasting time answering an abusive foul mouth (your previous posts) that seems to want to argue rather than understand. What have you asked so far that either B.P.’s or my posts can’t tell you? You have choices & so do I. I am not obliged to keep having this repetitive conversation.

What is 'following the Bible'? If you give the Bible to ten random Christians, all ten will read it differently, interpret it differently and act differently.

Now that is a fair question that I understand from your point of view. Don’t forget you ask what I think, I am not saying you have to agree, this is my point of view o.k.
I would say devoting your being, your whole life to the author (God) living a perfect life, by never committing a sin. Whoa, I can hear you now, gearing up. That is what I think following his word would be. HOWEVER, we have all sinned (previous posts) so we all fail & need salvation from ourselves. Then you go to the Bible for the answers don’t you? If you interpret what you think it means instead of getting an accurate picture, yes 10 people will get 10 interpretations as you say. But being ‘born again’ you are a new being it says. So now belonging in the kingdom of God, you are a baby in that world & need to grow. You see things with spiritual eyes (scriptural) the old blindness is gone. But a baby has to learn & grow. You can’t have all the education at once. You can’t understand it all, you never will here. Why not worry about getting to know him, much better, than knowing everything about him.

many christians are against homosexuality because of the Bible-verse where it says that no man should lie with another man, the way they would lie with a woman.

I will not start ww3 on this issue. However did you not just answer this question yourself with what the bible says? God loves the sinner, not the sin. “For all have sinned” (previous posts). If we disobey him in anything is that a sin? If when little you disobeyed your parents, were you in the wrong? If we ask 10 Christians their opinion yes you may get various answers but what does God say? Whatever the sin, it is God that it has to be answered too for. It has not got anything to do with the 10 or me, anymore than pointing out what the bible says without stuffing it down their throats. I am no better than any other sinner, the difference is I am forgiven, (previous posts.} So any one can be if they turn from their sin. It is as you say, up to God to judge.
Tell me where I am judging…please. Seriously.
You have seriously beaten any records for questions, I am exhausted. I need a holiday
Try B.P. next time. Please.

[Goliath]

Nope! Sorry, but wouldn’t you agree that people have said that, not the bible? They did not read or understand what it actually says. They are human & susceptible to mistakes. As I have said, none of us are perfect.

But... but... You said that 'true christians' follow the Bible. Actually, Super Aurora said that and you agreed. But now you're saying nobody is perfect enough to understand the Bible. So does that mean all christians are automatically wrong? Does it mean you are wrong?

What the Bible does say is quite a lot on the subject, but to narrow it down to one simple point, there will be no sign of him returning until the Jews were back home in their land. ‘Then this generation shall not pass’. Wasn’t it 1947 ish they returned to their land?

No, they didn't return to their land. They went to somebody else's land, drove out the original population (the Palestinian people) and almost ethnically cleansed the area. Much like the people of Israel did in the Old Testament when they took Jericho.

So lets all stick to facts eh.

In a discussion about religion?

Kindly show me where I was not putting a point over, without expecting everybody to agree with it.

Everywhere, all the time! Your whole attack on Lazario, Super Aurora and me was about how we had to accept Black Pearl's and Duster's answers and shut up.

Much quoting takes the whole evening to make sure I get it right for you, so if you don’t appreciate my giving up my evening for you, don’t keep asking me stuff, especially when

Especially when... what? What you're saying here, is exactly what I was accusing you of before: expecting me to accept all your answers without counter-arguing. You say I shouldn't ask answers if I don't find your answers adequate enough. In other words, you say: "agree with me, or don't ask anything".

I wish you would, it would save me a lot of work, for your benefit. Why don’t you? It is all I am giving answers from. Why don’t you want to know that? Why ask me then, when that’s all I can tell you.

Thank you for admitting that you are not able to give any original answer; not able to produce one idea or thought that is your own. That saves me the trouble of having to argue with you anymore.

Edit: okay, *one* more point, because this one is too preposterous to let it slip:

I would say devoting your being, your whole life to the author (God)

God did not 'author' the Bible. I will go as far as to accept some christians' belief that the Bible was written through 'divine inspiration' (God talking to them), but the many books (that's multiple!) that are in the Bible (the Bible is a collection of many different books, written across centuries) were written bu human beings. God did not, at one point in time, drop a book out of the sky.

I don't care what your religious beliefs are. The Bible was not authored by God. And that, my friend, is a historical fact.

[disneyboy20022]

God did not 'author' the Bible. I will go as far as to accept some christians' belief that the Bible was written through 'divine inspiration' (God talking to them), but the many books (that's multiple!) that are in the Bible (the Bible is a collection of many different books, written across centuries) were written bu human beings. God did not, at one point in time, drop a book out of the sky.

This is actually an interesting read into how the bible came to be and and the history of the english bible and the bible itself...it's a very interesting subject to read into the origin of the bible whether anyone is a christian or not....this link tells of this history of the english bible. You don't have to believe but it's interesting to just read about it...which I've always asked this question but forgot about it until now. And there are probably many many questions we will honestly never know for sure. You just gotta do what you think is right and I trust in the lord Jesus Christ.

Also thank's Duster about your opinion on the whole movie topic. That is how I always felt about it. You just gotta at the end of the day trust your heart.
http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-engli ... e-history/

Also waltmad, My Pastor said that the same thing I was saying. That as long as I'm not making a shrine to Darth Vader it's fine. And the Bottom Line is to know it's just a movie, another kind of way of telling a story than a book. And he loves watch WWE and when I said I was going to take my GF to see Letters to God, he said I should see Kick-Ass. You just gotta do what you believe in. To error is human, But to forgive is Divine.


Edit: Here is the history of the Bible of how it was originally formed so read this first to any that want to


The Pre-Reformation History of the Bible
From 1,400 BC to 1,400 AD - http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-engli ... ation.html


English Bible History - http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-engli ... e-history/

[Super Aurora]

God did not 'author' the Bible. I will go as far as to accept some christians' belief that the Bible was written through 'divine inspiration' (God talking to them), but the many books (that's multiple!) that are in the Bible (the Bible is a collection of many different books, written across centuries) were written bu human beings. God did not, at one point in time, drop a book out of the sky.

I don't care what your religious beliefs are. The Bible was not authored by God. And that, my friend, is a historical fact.

Not to mention that in the new testament, many of the same stories were told through slight different interpretations by different outlook over the event(experience) through gospel of Luke, Mark, etc. How you know which one to follow more thoroughly? Some of them slightly contradict each other over said event.

If I was a Christian, the only "true document" of God I would view as his own probably be the ten commandments. Not the bible. The bible seems more of a chronicle history book for Christians as well as providing some moral story telling not much different from fairytales purposes. The ten commandments seems to be THE RULES of God. And they were small listed, simple, and to the point.


slight off topic but old testament god was hilariously awesome as one story told of God sending bears to kill 40 children because those children mocked a holy man.

[Disney's Divinity]

the Bible has prophesized their generation as the last for the past 2,000 years.

Sorry, but wouldn’t you agree that people have said that, not the bible?

Yes, that is exactly why I said. The problem is, all these people thought, like you, that they had read the Bible perfectly.

No offense to you (or anyone who is a literalist in following the Bible), but it's hard for me to take the Bible seriously, though I do believe in the idea of God/Jesus and rules similar to the Ten Commandments. It's a book written several thousands of years ago by men (maybe men inspired by God, yes, but flawed men nonetheless; none of the books claim to have been written by God or Jesus, but about them), men who might not even be who they say, or are assumed, to be. During the time that real Christians were writing these things, many people trying to make money used pseudonyms of "Paul," or "Mark" to make their works seem credible so they could sell them to ancient libraries. This explains why many of the Pauline epistles collected in the Bible (by someone who was probably not an authority on the subject; with many other books excluded...for whatever reason) seem not to coalesce with one another--the infamous "women will be silent" seems not to go along with any of his other books where he appoints women to be teachers/preachers, etc. Even the Gospels, which focus on Jesus, don't go together perfectly in their depiction of events, or even in their depictions of Jesus. Also, Paul was a man who never met Jesus and may or may not be someone of an authority on the subject.

And then there's all the other things to worry about where it concerns translation. Languages do not work like A = B, C = D. Words have different meanings and connotations which may not be fully expressed or competently understood within other languages (ex: the concept of "it" is very hard to grasp for people who learn English). And then there are genuine errors (on the part of scribes who would sometimes re-phrase things so they didn't have to manually copy so much writing), and people who would apply their own personal meaning of a word (such as that "conservative Bible" project from a while back, where they would use modern words like "gambling," etc.). And finally I wonder about the possible intentional mistranslation and/or exclusion of books by political forces in the past. The King James' Bible is just that, books collected by King James. Who was he to decide what books were/were not heretical, and to impose his views on future printings?

I don't really say all this to start a debate or to say "this is why I disagree with you," just to give an explanation of why I don't readily take the Bible that seriously. It's not that I completely dismiss it, but I am very skeptical of it. In the end, regardless, the Bible is not God.