Alice in Wonderland: 60th Anniversary Edition Blu-ray, 2011
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Using the $10 upgrade coupon at Ultimate Electronics I picked up the Alice in Wonderland 60th Anniversary Blu-ray/DVD Combo pack for just $8.95t. I am happy. Watching it right now and I agree they have done well with this DAC coming to Blu-ray. It is sparkling clear.
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I just drove for about 30-40 minutes in ice to a Best Buy that's not too far away to get this. $10 is just too good of a deal to pass up. Haha.
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Lol, the things we won't do for Disney! I just got home myself from a successful trip to Best Buy! I was so worried that using a coupon there would be a problem, but the sales clerk took it without a question. $9.99 is a great price for this title, and so far, it's the cheapest Blu-ray I've bought to date. I only own 12, so that's not that huge of a deal, but I like saving money!zackisthewalrus wrote:I just drove for about 30-40 minutes in ice to a Best Buy that's not too far away to get this. $10 is just too good of a deal to pass up. Haha.

I'm going to watch the movie right after dinner, I can't wait!
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Picked it up at Best Buy for $9.99 with no problem.
Some quick thoughts:
- I like the new color scheme, although it does look a little too boosted in a few spots
- I'm happy they're using the old Blu-Ray cases with the indented Blu-Ray logo on the top again, they're much classier
- The Thru the Mirror short looks gorgeous. Finally, an actual restored in high definition short after all those unrestored up converted Silly Symphonies we were getting on Snow White and Beauty and the Beast. Only downside is - as Kelvin mentioned - the new title card.
Some quick thoughts:
- I like the new color scheme, although it does look a little too boosted in a few spots
- I'm happy they're using the old Blu-Ray cases with the indented Blu-Ray logo on the top again, they're much classier
- The Thru the Mirror short looks gorgeous. Finally, an actual restored in high definition short after all those unrestored up converted Silly Symphonies we were getting on Snow White and Beauty and the Beast. Only downside is - as Kelvin mentioned - the new title card.
Last edited by jpanimation on Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:14 am, edited 2 times in total.

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I know! I still can't believe that I walked(I dont have a Drivers License) a full 2 hours to the nearest theater to see Tangled!MJW wrote:Lol, the things we won't do for Disney! I just got home myself from a successful trip to Best Buy! I was so worried that using a coupon there would be a problem, but the sales clerk took it without a question. $9.99 is a great price for this title, and so far, it's the cheapest Blu-ray I've bought to date. I only own 12, so that's not that huge of a deal, but I like saving money!zackisthewalrus wrote:I just drove for about 30-40 minutes in ice to a Best Buy that's not too far away to get this. $10 is just too good of a deal to pass up. Haha.![]()
I'm going to watch the movie right after dinner, I can't wait!

As for cheapity, it's either the second or third cheapest I bought to date(in a store, anyway. Lots of great used discs on Amazon Marketplace). Behind Beauty and the Beast($8.32) and First place is a tie between Monsters, Inc and UP($6.26 Each)

Prices include tax.

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Kelvin, I read all you said, and I understand. So I finally had a look at the specific Alice section of The Art and Flair of Mary Blair, in Chapter Four, The Big Three: Cinderella, Alice, and Peter.
I am so happy, and feel so smart, because the black and gray used in the film does indeed seem to be to feel like the original black and white Tenniel illustrations of the original book. I can't believe I was right about that. I may have been right about other stuff, too, but you must have a read for yourself, here is all that applies to what we were talking about, unaltered, from the book itself:
I am so happy, and feel so smart, because the black and gray used in the film does indeed seem to be to feel like the original black and white Tenniel illustrations of the original book. I can't believe I was right about that. I may have been right about other stuff, too, but you must have a read for yourself, here is all that applies to what we were talking about, unaltered, from the book itself:
So this means that none of the restorations we've gotten (except Dumbo)have been completely accurate, and that some of them have even been painted over in spots! So I was right this whole time!She based her imagery on John Tenniel's illustrations for the original Lewis Carroll books. But again, "Walt would not let us go completely in that direction", Blair recalled, "but we did incorporate some pure black, white, and gray line details in the backgrounds."
Ward Kimball, who animated the Mad Tea Party, said he "got this idea that we'd have just the characters in the tea party in full color on the cels, but the backgrounds would be done like Tenniel in black-and-white. [Mary] thought it was a great idea." But "when she showed it to Walt he gave it the thumbs-down. [Walt said,] 'You tell Ward just to give us that good old Kimball animation.'"
Regarding Blair's work in general, Kimball "was always pissed off because the great little paintings she did, nobody ever used."
Mary Blair's sensibility pervades Alice's leaf patterns, shrubbery, settings, props, characters, costumes, and color. She envisioned Wonderland as a dark psychological dreamscape (the story does take place down a rabbit hole, underground). Scenery for Tulgey Wood (home of the Chesire Cat), the Garden of Live Flowers, and the Mad Tea Party are shadowy to black; against them the brightly colored characters pop out and are isolated in pools of light.
On one of the pages, it shows this picture and it has the caption: Long black shadows amid gloomy woods lend the setting for the Mad Tea Party a sinister, nightmarish cast.
So there it is. Now, I cannot tell if John Canemaker was just putting what he thought of her work in words, and whether we really know Mary intended all that or not. Also, it says that Walt didn't like all the dark or black and white ideas and others didn't use her art, but we all know a lot of Mary still made it in, so what can we really take of all this?
It's interesting it talks about black and the bright colors and characters over it. That does remind me of my own mind imagining things. Also, it reminds me of soem describing of Cinderella I heard before, that they had characters in warm colors to pop out on the cool backgrounds of that film.
And in that picture of the dark tea party, I can see how there's black lines that look like Tenniel drawings, and they are completely colored in just solid green and purple, like Tenniel's drawings colored over. It's a pretty cool, weird, Wonderland-looking effect.
I wish I more understood what you were saying here. Yes Rapunzel should have a golden look to her hair, but I was mainly saying that no character should have the same color anything as another character. each character should have their own unique shades!Victurtle wrote:What about Rapunzel? Her hair was the product of a pure drop of sunlight.
Also, you do know Sleeping Beauty was set in the 14th century, a good two or three hundred years before Alice. It could be possible they had invented brighter colors in that time span!Anyhow seeing as the fairies are now extinct, I don't think their magic is all it's made up to be. They even admit that themselves, that their powers weren't as strong as maleficent's.
As for that other stuff, the fairies defeated Maleficent, yes with Phillip's help, but their magic still defeated her. And that has nothing to do with Aurora's hair color, because it would stay golden until the day she died, even if they died before she did. There is no official evidence that her hair color would go away one day, so unless you've got proof, I'm going to believe what I think is obvious, that Aurora's hair would stay that color, if that's even what you were talking about.
And hair dye can never match the power of magic, of course!
jpanimation wrote: Steven Worth is an expert on vintage animation art and currently the Director of the ASIFA-Hollywood Animation Archive. Robert Harris is a professional film restoration/preservationist (he restored The Godfather films for Blu-Ray). A lot was said, much of which went right over my head, so I suggest personally reading it.
Mr. Worth has been very vocal as to the inaccuracies of the colors, in addition to the usual argument that taking out film grain and digitally re-inking/coloring is compromising the integrity of the original film as intended. He says using cells and art as a basis for color is BS as the animators would make adjustments - based on tests conducted before hand - for the effects of film and the effects of layers on the multiplane camera. He also says Disney has color outlines/notes for many of their films that they should be using as a guideline. As far as his credibility is concerned, he has personally restored Disney artwork and cells, in addition to having viewed all the IB Tech Prints for the Walt era films (on tech prints, the color neither fades nor turns). While some may find his comments bold and brash, he is undoubtable more of an expert then anyone here.
According to him, the Dumbo Blu-Ray is the only one to sport accurate color representations, even though he still disapproves of the grain reduction and digital re-painting/inking.
Anyways, ALOT more was said but I really only skimmed the first page.
Last edited by Disney Duster on Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

Oh gosh.. so much color talk.
I think it's beautiful personally. The only thing that was a bit odd to me was Alice's skin color. It seemed darker and less fair than in previous versions (and how I've always imagined her.) I mean.. I don't know. I don't really have a problem with Disney changing colors in their restorations. I have to believe that when these films were made, color theory and graphic design in general was wildly different than it is today. In a society where pristine clarity and brightness is expected, I think Disney is doing wonders for their DAC line by boosting the colors and digitally repainting the films. Every blu ray I have seen so far, in my eyes, has been very pretty and clear.

- jpanimation
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- I like the menu, it looks so much nicer than the Beauty and the Beast one. No annoying dub over and no horrible looking CG backgrounds. Only problem is it can take some time to navigate.jpanimation wrote:Some quick thoughts:
- I like the new color scheme, although it does look a little too boosted in a few spots
- I'm happy they're using the old Blu-Ray cases with the indented Blu-Ray logo on the top again, they're much classier
- The Thru the Mirror short looks gorgeous. Finally, an actual restored in high definition short after all those unrestored up converted Silly Symphonies we were getting on Snow White and Beauty and the Beast. Only downside is - as Kelvin mentioned - the new title card.
- The Thru the Mirror short on the accompanying DVD is unrestored, complete with original title card. Just like how the feature film, Alice in Wonderland, is a different transfer. I guess that gives people options (for those who don't like the new colors or replacement title card).
- 'Through the Keyhole' was great but would've worked better had the movie not been playing along side it. I just found the movie distracting when we're being presented with soo much information and rarely does what they're discussing actually have to do with what is happening in the movie.
- When they discussed the Gryphon and Mock Turtle in 'Through the Keyhole' it made me wish they would've included the Jell-O commercial.

I only made my way about halfway through the movie last night before going to bed, but from what I've seen so far, the restoration is fantastic!
However, did anyone else notice that there are still a few "flaws" in certain spots? For example, when Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum are dancing, once in a while you'll see color variations show up in their red pants (dark spots). Also, I noticed that towards the end of the Walrus and the Carpenter sequence, the Walrus' coat fluctuates in lightness and darkness of color.
Now, none of these are that big a deal and I don't mean to sound like a perfectionist, but are things such as this expected in a film restored for Blu-ray? I am well aware that the cels from these movies were hand-painted, so variations in color and even brush strokes can be present, but I wasn't sure if these would have or should have been removed during the restoration process. I didn't see anything like this in Alice's blue dress, which was a consistent deep blue through and through. Most the the fluctuations I saw were during fast moving scenes. It's almost as if they didn't focus on these closely during restoration due to the fact that the characters are moving fast and it's hard to focus on them.
Hopefully no one takes this as me complaining about the film, because I am not. In no way am I disappointed in seeing these things, I just wasn't sure if these were the types of things "removed" during restorations. These perceived "flaws" might be present in the other restored titles, but up until now I hadn't noticed.
However, did anyone else notice that there are still a few "flaws" in certain spots? For example, when Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum are dancing, once in a while you'll see color variations show up in their red pants (dark spots). Also, I noticed that towards the end of the Walrus and the Carpenter sequence, the Walrus' coat fluctuates in lightness and darkness of color.
Now, none of these are that big a deal and I don't mean to sound like a perfectionist, but are things such as this expected in a film restored for Blu-ray? I am well aware that the cels from these movies were hand-painted, so variations in color and even brush strokes can be present, but I wasn't sure if these would have or should have been removed during the restoration process. I didn't see anything like this in Alice's blue dress, which was a consistent deep blue through and through. Most the the fluctuations I saw were during fast moving scenes. It's almost as if they didn't focus on these closely during restoration due to the fact that the characters are moving fast and it's hard to focus on them.
Hopefully no one takes this as me complaining about the film, because I am not. In no way am I disappointed in seeing these things, I just wasn't sure if these were the types of things "removed" during restorations. These perceived "flaws" might be present in the other restored titles, but up until now I hadn't noticed.
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What you said is absolutely wrong and bastardizing! I don't care if you think I am mean or wrong for saying that, because changing colors and even worse, painting over the films, just for today's audience, is absolutely wrong, it will never ever be right.Patrick wrote:Oh gosh.. so much color talk.I think it's beautiful personally. The only thing that was a bit odd to me was Alice's skin color. It seemed darker and less fair than in previous versions (and how I've always imagined her.) I mean.. I don't know. I don't really have a problem with Disney changing colors in their restorations. I have to believe that when these films were made, color theory and graphic design in general was wildly different than it is today. In a society where pristine clarity and brightness is expected, I think Disney is doing wonders for their DAC line by boosting the colors and digitally repainting the films. Every blu ray I have seen so far, in my eyes, has been very pretty and clear.
Unless these "flaws" were not part of the original version of the film, then they should not be removed or corrected. You can not tell what the original artists would be okay with removing or painting over, especially things like brushstrokes which let you know the film was hand-painted in the first place.MJW wrote:However, did anyone else notice that there are still a few "flaws" in certain spots? For example, when Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum are dancing, once in a while you'll see color variations show up in their red pants (dark spots). Also, I noticed that towards the end of the Walrus and the Carpenter sequence, the Walrus' coat fluctuates in lightness and darkness of color.
Now, none of these are that big a deal and I don't mean to sound like a perfectionist, but are things such as this expected in a film restored for Blu-ray? I am well aware that the cels from these movies were hand-painted, so variations in color and even brush strokes can be present, but I wasn't sure if these would have or should have been removed during the restoration process. I didn't see anything like this in Alice's blue dress, which was a consistent deep blue through and through. Most the the fluctuations I saw were during fast moving scenes. It's almost as if they didn't focus on these closely during restoration due to the fact that the characters are moving fast and it's hard to focus on them.

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What you said is wrong. Patrick was simply giving his opinion why is that wrong or "bastardising"?DisneyDuster wrote:What you said is absolutely wrong and bastardizing! I don't care if you think I am mean or wrong for saying that, because changing colors and even worse, painting over the films, just for today's audience, is absolutely wrong, it will never ever be right.
I can understand why some people have a problem with this issue but I also understand what Patrick said; in the age of high-definition Disney are doing what every other studio is doing: trying to provide the clarity and quality of picture that audiences have come to expect. Whether that is devaluing the original work is a valid argument but the restorations so far have been brilliant.
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I think it looks great AND we have the more saturated version on the accompanying dvd copy in the combo pack, so we have both versions to choose from.
I think some people just won't be happy unless you give them the original film reels and leave them in a dark room to relive their glorious past....

THESE FOOLS TODAY!!! HAVE THEY FORGOTTEN WHAT ALICE'S REAL HAIR COLOR IS???!!!!!!!!!!
I think some people just won't be happy unless you give them the original film reels and leave them in a dark room to relive their glorious past....

THESE FOOLS TODAY!!! HAVE THEY FORGOTTEN WHAT ALICE'S REAL HAIR COLOR IS???!!!!!!!!!!
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Though much of the new digital master is thrilling, Alice's vivid neon yellow-orange hair color is inaccurate to the original palette intent.
If you are familiar with original Alice cels, you will know that her hair is painted an almost seaweed green so that it would photograph and print in Technicolor as a neutral goldenrod yellow "natural" blonde shade (as you see it in older film prints and stills) - - to confirm the original intent just see Mary Blair's pre-production color sketches.
My theory: I assume that scanning the negative for a digital medium would mean that Alice's green paint tones probably showed up and the hair required individual "color-correction" (as it should not be green) - - but that the corrections went a bit too far in the orange direction (as this is consistent across the new version even when other colors within the scene are balanced properly).
(Similarly inaccurate is Cinderella's flaming red-orange hair in the recent digital restoration - - though it shifts from scene to scene, overall she should be more a neutral dishwater strawberry ash blonde.).
If you are familiar with original Alice cels, you will know that her hair is painted an almost seaweed green so that it would photograph and print in Technicolor as a neutral goldenrod yellow "natural" blonde shade (as you see it in older film prints and stills) - - to confirm the original intent just see Mary Blair's pre-production color sketches.
My theory: I assume that scanning the negative for a digital medium would mean that Alice's green paint tones probably showed up and the hair required individual "color-correction" (as it should not be green) - - but that the corrections went a bit too far in the orange direction (as this is consistent across the new version even when other colors within the scene are balanced properly).
(Similarly inaccurate is Cinderella's flaming red-orange hair in the recent digital restoration - - though it shifts from scene to scene, overall she should be more a neutral dishwater strawberry ash blonde.).
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