Frozen: Part V

[thedisneyspirit]

Bah, people will just do anything for Hans to be looked good.

I bet if he was designed to look like Governor Ratcliffe I bet most people wouldn't give him a second glace.

[jazzflower92]

Bah, people will just do anything for Hans to be looked good.

I bet if he was designed to look like Governor Ratcliffe I bet most people wouldn't give him a second glace.

I think its why the red herring worked because the Duke had so many obviously evil traits that derived from Ratcliffe. Although one dead giveaway is the fact that the Duke did not get a song like Ratcliffe which would be a tipoff to his true status in the movie.

[thelittleursula]

Bah, people will just do anything for Hans to be looked good.

I bet if he was designed to look like Governor Ratcliffe I bet most people wouldn't give him a second glace.

I disagree, I mean look at the most popular villains



Green skin, horn things on head, not sexy or anything



Uhm, he's a lion



A aged- character that gets alot of praise and attention for his evils, then again there is some fangirls out there that do have a odd crush on him



I love Ursula, but would any of you guys here date her ? I doubt it, plus she's half octopus



Not attractive at all, and yet he's well received


The only loved and attractive villains that are popular and adored are Gaston and Loki.

[Old Fish Tale]

Well, I love all those villains you mentioned above because they're so deliciously evil. Hans, on the other hand, was more interesting as a goodie than as a baddie.

[unprincess]

Thanks for the Troll/Hans explanation. Yeah thats a pretty weak link there. Personally i dont mind him being plain ol evil or have any need for him to be made sympathetic(though I wouldnt mind). I just want to know more about his past b/c as a villain we see so little of him in the movie. Id like to know if he was already a bastard before or did his family situation push this kind of ambitiously cutthroat behavior(if youve read up on European history you know that royals practically lived in fear of being offed by rivals, including their own family members!)

as for other villains I always had a crush on Hades & even kinda sympathised with him a bit after learning about the original greek myth. Basically he lost a game of sticks & got stuck with the Underworld that no one else wanted to rule. Also no one(mortal) even worships the underworld. The other gods probably mistreated him the minute he got the job. Poor baby.

[Jules]

Green skin, horn things on head, not sexy or anything.

I have to disagree with you on Maleficent. She may have green skin and horns, and has an indisputably "evil" look, but I think she's a very beautiful woman.

[Warm Regards]

thelittleursula, are you being sarcastic? I mean, who wouldn't wanna kiss Jafar?

But I think most Disney villains are charismatic in their own "I AM EVIL" way. Yes, this extends to animals like Shere Khan, Ratigan, and Scar.

Ratcliffe isn't exactly appealing to me, not because he's "ugly" (his voice is nice enough), but because he's BO-RING. Ditto for villains like Clayton, Rourke from Atlantis, or Bowler Hat Guy.

Hans could have worked as a villain, but then the whole twist reveal would have been compromised.

So which is better? Having a surprise character switching sides, or a villain with buildup for a story that didn't really necessitate one?

[thedisneyspirit]

I dunno littleursula, I've seen fangirls and fanboys who lust for them about all of those (the most popular ones to get horny at are Frollo and Maleficent...And oddly Scar. You're right that poor Ursula never seems to get any booty )

Otoh, for the most part Disney villains don't get that dumb "justifying your behavior". People like Ursula because she's a bad bitch and she knows it, nobody goes around saying how she's so oppressed and Ariel's the evil one in this case.

Funny you forgot Gothel and King Candy, while they're not the most popular villains they get the "Loki treatment" a lot. Like how people defend Gothel, saying how she's such a loving mother, that Rapunzel is a selfish brat for running away from her, and how Tangled the movie carries an "Anti-Adoption" message (lul what).

Turbo is the same thing, that Vanellope was a spoiled brat that needed to get deleted so Sugar Rush could be a "peaceful kingdom", and blah blah.

And who can forget the "handsome duds". Gaston, Loki and Hans. About how poor and misunderstood these poor babies are; that Odin and Thor are abusive and cruel to baby Loki, that Belle's a bitch for not opening her legs to Gaston, that Anna's a slut for cheating on Hans with Kristoff...

Blah blah blah, typical bs.

It's not that I condemn villain-liking, considering so many are quite cool, but this "Draco in Leather Pants" treatment is just something I don't get at all. And considering half the Hans fandom does this, well...

[unprincess]

that Belle's a bitch for not opening her legs to Gaston, that Anna's a slut for cheating on Hans with Kristoff...

is this for real? thats... scary.

[moviefan12]

Like how people defend Gothel, saying how she's such a loving mother, that Rapunzel is a selfish brat for running away from her, and how Tangled the movie carries an "Anti-Adoption" message (lul what).

Yeah, no. That is just dumb. One can make the argument that Gothel may have had started to believe the lie that she was feeding Rapunzel that she truly loved her but I think that more comes in part from Gothel justifying what she was doing in those 18 years to Rapunzel. But at the end of the day, she was abusing Rapunzel and while someone can make the argument, it's clear that she cared more about staying young than actually loving Rapunzel whereas Rapunzel seemed to genuinely love her "mother".

[Disney's Divinity]

Otoh, for the most part Disney villains don't get that dumb "justifying your behavior". People like Ursula because she's a bad bitch and she knows it, nobody goes around saying how she's so oppressed and Ariel's the evil one in this case.

I think that's the difference (although the "justifying your behavior" thing does happen with TLM, just with Triton, where so many people make Ariel out to be the villain in that relationship).

I like Hans for what he is; I don't like trying to re-write characters' histories. At most, I might suppose why they are the way they are, sans making them into victims who should have all their behavior forgiven.

as for other villains I always had a crush on Hades & even kinda sympathised with him a bit after learning about the original greek myth. Basically he lost a game of sticks & got stuck with the Underworld that no one else wanted to rule. Also no one(mortal) even worships the underworld. The other gods probably mistreated him the minute he got the job. Poor baby.

I have to admit, I always did have sympathy for Hades. Not that I think he's any less bad than he is, just that his behavior doesn't seem any more selfish than any of the other gods who mostly don't give a crap about humanity's problems. Plus, it doesn't help that Zeus is a huge douche (both in this film and in the myths). Hades doesn't even seem like he's being that mean at the beginning with the other gods; they kind of just turn their noses up at him. I imagine this happened to Maleficent in SB among the nobles, too, before she went full-on psychotic on their behinds.

Again, not that they're sympathetic/moral, but their reactions can be understandable.

[ProfessorRatigan]

(I love this conversation! )

Yes, I'd have to agree that Maleficent certainly has a regal beauty. Take off the horns and you have a very angular, noble facial structure, full lips... I've always found Marc Davis's ladies to be beautiful in their own ways. (Yes, even Cruella exhibits some flair and style.) Davis had a knack for classy, curvy dames, didn't he?

As for Frollo, Shere Khan and, to a lesser extent, Scar, I think their sex-appeal comes primarily from ONE thing: their voice. Each of them have very attractive, rich voices. And studies have been done that show that humans equate masculinity with booming, baritone timbres. (In fact, I think Jeremy Irons was mentioned in a specific study I once read! Wish I had the link on hand!)

Ursula has always been vampish and 'sexual.' I think she has a lot of sex-appeal and have said so before. She's big, but there are plenty of people out there who are into plus-sized gals. I'm sure Ursula has her fans SOMEWHERE. She's too overtly sensual to NOT have them.

Jafar... Yeah, I got nothing. I love him, but, damn, he needs to each a sandwich.

[Disney's Divinity]

Davis had a knack for classy, curvy dames, didn't he?

Cruella and Maleficent had curves? They look like complete rails to me. I think they both flip back and forth between attractive and ugly from scene to scene.

I wonder if anybody's ever rewritten Cruella as the victim and how dare those puppies not want to be her coat?

[ProfessorRatigan]

Cruella and Maleficent had curves? They look like complete rails to me. I think they both flip back and forth between attractive and ugly from scene to scene.

Oops. I meant, "sultry." Not curvy.

[Warm Regards]

Jafar... Yeah, I got nothing. I love him, but, damn, he needs to each a sandwich.

I wonder what a normal Agrabah diet consists of? Or maybe the Sultan's hogging all the food.

[unprincess]

I have to admit, I always did have sympathy for Hades. Not that I think he's any less bad than he is, just that his behavior doesn't seem any more selfish than any of the other gods who mostly don't give a crap about humanity's problems. Plus, it doesn't help that Zeus is a huge douche (both in this film and in the myths).

the Greek myths are insane. That reminds me, if Disney wants to make a movie about a sympathetic villain they should make one about Medusa. She was actually cursed by Athena into a monster because...she got raped in her temple. Yup. How dare she?

[Disney's Divinity]

Or Arachne, who was cursed to be a spider just because she was a better weaver than Athena. When I was in high school, I used to think Athena was the coolest god, but she's a real piece of work.

You know, I wonder if they do a Frozen sequel, if they'll ever address that Elsa is close to being a goddess herself considering she can create sentient life (Marshmallow, Olaf).

[Alphapanchito]

I have to admit, I always did have sympathy for Hades. Not that I think he's any less bad than he is, just that his behavior doesn't seem any more selfish than any of the other gods who mostly don't give a crap about humanity's problems. Plus, it doesn't help that Zeus is a huge douche (both in this film and in the myths).

the Greek myths are insane. That reminds me, if Disney wants to make a movie about a sympathetic villain they should make one about Medusa. She was actually cursed by Athena into a monster because...she got raped in her temple. Yup. How dare she?

Actually Athena cursed Medusa as a gift so she could protect herself in the future. That's why you can find Medusa's head carved into the doorways of ancient greek kind of women's shelters. There's a lot of writing on this (pm me if interested) and why this part of the story is often left out of a lot of more recent retellings.

So yeah, its definitely easy to make a sympathetic portrayal of Medusa since the original myth is sympathetic towards her. However, it may be difficult to transfer to a family movie and still carry weight. But definitely possible.

[Old Fish Tale]

Yes, that myth would be difficult to adapt, but I'd love to see it.

[taei]

Last update on Arabic songs =')
I know that a lot of people don't care but I feel like I have to vent and this is the only place I can do it. T___T

So...

Frozen Heart - as fas as I can understand, just like the english.

Do you want to build a snowman - "Do you want an ice man". terrible lyrics, The speaking parts were good though. But that last verse was just terrible... horrible..

For the First time in Forever - "For the first day in my life" Anna sounded too young and unprofessional (sounded like a fan dub). Saving Grace was the second chorus, truly impressive. Favorite piece of the dub. Elsa's voice is way too old compared to Anna. It's like Elsa is 30 and Anna is 15. And her lyrics are horrible, as I mentioned in the other post.

Love is an Open Door - Biggest disappointment in the soundtrack.. "Love is the home" . Completely took away from the meaning of the song. Hans' voice is too distant. When he belts out it just sounds terrible. The lyrics are completely wrong. All the Hans subtlety is gone. "I've been searching my whole life for my heart". The parts where Anna belts out are just horrible.. It's like in english, her voice goes up (is that right?) but in Arabic she suddenly goes soft. They said "Chocolate Fondue" in english (literally "Chocolate Fondue") but not "Sandwiches" -_-".... I just had high expectations...

Let it Go - One word.... "That Perfect Girl is gone" >>>> "I've lost my innocence"

In Summer - Sounds good to me. Olaf's voice is good. Though as usual... Problems with the lyrics!! "And see what happens to snow when it turns to water" WTF? WHAT HAPPENS!!! IS THERE AN IN-BETWEEN??!!! Completely throws off the "Put me in summer and I'll be a _____".. Which was translated perfectly. Just... how.. that's my question..

For the First Time in Forever (reprise) - The Anna parts.. Wow. Her voice really shines! So good and near perfection! A couple of pronunciation issues, but the lyrics were perfect. Elsa's first verse was good, her lyrics were well translated, but she still sounds way too old. Then the second verse comes in... (face palm)... In english it sounded poetic and symbolic.. In arabic.. it just doesn't sound right.. You know how people some people didn't like how literal Elsa's lyrics were? Well.. they are literally exactly what you see here. "Oh, you're making it snow more" instead of "Anna please you'll only make it worse" And they took off "Can't control the curse".. which I thought was a very very strong line in the english version...

Fixer Upper: Not out yet.. Will update later.

Ratings so far (best is at top):
1. Frozen Heart
2. In Summer
3. For the first time in forever = Let it go
4. For the first time in forever (reprise)
5. Do you want to build a snow man
6. Love is an open door

The voices are not bad. They're good. They all sound good. The problem is that they don't fit the characters!
Anna's voice went through puberty in the movie. Half of the time it was a 10 yr old girl singing and the other time it was an 18 yr old. When it was an 18 yr old's voice, it was perfect. Kristen Bell's voice is really good, but is close to the annoying line (like Kristen Chenoweth's voice (still like her voice though)). The arabic Anna had that voice minus the annoying part. Which paints me because they could have easily recorded better lines.
Elsa's voice was just... too old. It sounded good, but too old!

The lyrics are the biggest problem that I have with this dubbing. It was just flat out terrible. It seemed cold, distant, and broken. Half the time I was going "Wait, that doesn't sound right..." and the other half was "Wait... Why didn't you just....... ??". They decided to try their best to literally translate the songs word for word.. Which does not work! Part of why I love a lot of the classic arabic dubs is because they found their own way to be poetic and symbolic through the arabic language, so it feels like the songs were written for the arabic dub! But here it feels like they just copied it through google translate! it does not sound good! Sometimes you have to go off the tangent to write good lyrics. Be creative! If they switched out good lines for better sounding and rhyming lines in arabic, it wouldn't be a good translation! They didn't capture the true meaning of the songs! The biggest one being "Love is an Open Door".
After Tangled, all arabic dubs were switched to traditional and formal arabic instead of the classic Egyptian accent, which sounds heavy and takes more time to pronounce words. And I don't hate it. I actually like it! But when it comes to these Disney movies, especially when songs that have quick words are present, I don't think they should have gone that route. I'm sure that they have their reasons, but it just sounded wrong to me.
With terrible lyrics and mediocre voices.... I don't think I'll bother buying the Arabic version. T____T

sorry for the long rant...